Conference moira::parenting_v3

    
    Hi Steve,
    
    Not a direct answer to your question...but I had the same problem
    with my son being disinterested in reading stories (probably
    around 9 months or so).   At that point, I discovered that he was
    infinitely more interested in turning the pages himself and pointing
    at things that he liked.  So, this is how we "read" to him and
    as a result, he spends ALOT of time with his books.   We are 
    gradually evolving to full-scale reading....first, with pointing
    at the pictures and identifying them (for example, "train" might be
    all we say on a particular page)) and now, with making up a small
    story that lasts for as long as he wants to stay on a particular 
    page.  We use the thick board books for now (easier for him to
    turn the pages and not as easy to destroy!) so there isn't really
    text per se.
    
    Maybe you'd like to try this approach??? 
    
    Carol

    
    When my daughter was really little, we got her picture books to
    look at and yes, to chew on! We started really reading to my daughter 
    when she was 3. That's when she could understand simple stories.
    We also got her a Teddy Ruxspin (sp?) which came with picture books 
    and tapes. It got her interested in books. Then when my daughter turned 4, 
    we started going to the library and checking out story books like 
    The Stone Soup, The Three Wishes, etc, and Green Eggs and Ham which she
    learned to read herself. Now she is in Kindergarten, we have probably
    read some 150 story books and she is very eager to learn how to read
    herself.
    
    We didn't start reading real early since my daughter wasn't interested.
    So, we were patiently waiting for the window of opportunity to show
    up!! I think if you don't mind "reading to the wall" for a while,
    keep up the reading and once of these days, your child will turn around
    and asked "what was that you have read?"
    
    
    Eva.

    Rick and I started reading to Matt when he was 5 months.  We started with
    books that have pictures and a few words on a page. Now, (he's 18
    months) we've "graduated" to books like Dr. Seuss and Disney.
    Matt would much rather sit and be read to than play with any of his
    toys.  My friend's twins are the same age and are much more interested
    in toys than books.  Children are different !
    
    One idea you may want to try is to sing him some stories.  For example,
    for Thansgiving I got a book with pictures that has the words "Over
    the River and Through the Woods".  Some books I've seen with a
    Christmas theme are "Jingle Bells", "The Twelve Days of Christmas",
    and "The Night Before Christma".  You can also buy great nursery
    rhyme books that are geared toward babies/toddlers.  These can also
    be sung !  Since most children like music, the pictures and your
    singing may interest him.  The only disadvantage is that he may
    like it so much that you'll find yourself hoarse !  Good luck !
    
                           
    

    Kate is now 2.5 years and loves to read stories.  When we started - 9
    - 10 months old, all she wanted to do was chew, too.  It was pretty
    frustrating at first.  We got _Pat The Bunny_, which is a good book for
    touching.  She loved it.  We gradually started looking at larger
    picture books.  Her FAVORITES (Still) are _A to Z_, _Mother Goose_,
    _Are You My Friend Today?_, by Gyo Fujikowa (sp?). (There are MANY
    other titles by this author)  The books are simple, the pictures are 
    great!  
    
    With the _A to Z_ book we make a game out of each page - example "B"
    has two full pages of busy babies... I'll say "I see a baby with a
    flower" and you should see the look of concentration as she scans the
    pages to find the right baby!  
    
    When we first started reading these bigger books, sometimes we'd read
    the left side, sometimes just the right... for a while she was
    interested in only ONE page in each book!  
    
    We now have a collection of lots of little Golden Books which are a big
    hit, too.
    
    Now at 2.5 her day would not be complete if we didn't read stories
    before bedtime. 

RE .3                      <<< Note 560.3 by SPCTRM::TURMEL >>>
                              -< Sing a story ! >-

>>    Rick and I started reading to Matt when he was 5 months.  We started with
>>    books that have pictures and a few words on a page.


Your name isn't Lori, by any chance, is it??????  Because I was going to reply:

Rick and I have been reading to Matt since he was an infant.  He started out
with just picture books like the "Baby Animals At Home/On The Farm/In The Wild"
books, or those soft books by Playskool.  They're short, only about 10 pages,
and have no words.  Then we joined the Dr. Seuss book club.  We got books
geared for babies...they may have had up to 30 pages, but only a couple of
words on each page.

Now we're in the Disney book club.  He GRADUALLY got a longer attention span
(he's 2� now) so he'll sit thru "regular" stories.

How old is your child now?  I'd suggest starting out with very SHORT books,
and gradually adding longer stories.

� �ori �

    Day_1, Steve!
    
    I always sang and went through the nursery rhymes while rocking JA
    before bedtime ... from Day_1.  More of a challenge to me to see how
    many songs and rhymes I could remember from my childhood, then JA
    cared whether I was singing or humming!
    
    Round about 4 months (when she was holding things), we bought her the
    cloth and tiny cardboard books to hold and fondle.
    
    Round about 6 months we would start reading them to her ... one, maybe
    two, before bedtime.
    
    Round about 8 months, she would turn the pages.  Jim really gets into
    the story.  If it's counting dogs (10 dogs, one chases a ball, now
    there is nine ... he'll then count all nine dogs in the picture --
    gently, gently brush your hair ... he'll rub JA's hair).  At about
    12 months, JA started counting and saying major words in the books.
    Jim would ask her to point out the bear on every page, the baby on
    every page ... and then hug and kiss her when she found them.
    
    Now at 15 months, JA pulls a stack of books out of her bookcase and
    will sit in the middle of the coffee table and read to herself ...
    I really mean READ.  She turns the page ... says major words which do
    pertain to that particular page ... OR carry out the motions (pat her
    hair).  I am floored by this!!!  She just loves her books.  In the
    Pedi's office, she bee-lines for the book rack over the toy box.
    We've started buying the Golden Books (paper pages) and she's very good
    with them ... no tearing or folding of the pages.  She even stacks her
    books on the coffee table (but won't let me put them away ... I put
    them back in the bookcase AFTER she's asleep).
    
    I think you have to start very young, Steve ... and "participate" in
    the story ... get you and your child actively involved in the story. 
    Amazingly how they can relate and WILL remember!
    
    JA counts to five and alpha's to E ... mostly because of the stories.
    When she walks up the stairs, we count them.  We count cheerios.
    We have alpha magnets on the refrig, and she'll hand them to me one at
    a time and I tell her what it is (e.g. "A", "Z", "6" ...).
    
    It's amazing how fast they learn!
    
    Dottie
                                

    
    	Something else that may be worthwhile is to let your child see
    *you* enjoying books. If your books/magazines have pictures you
    can then involve the children in talking about them and make them aware
    that books are fun.
    	I'd also advocate giving children books (cloth or whatever) from
    day 1. Friends of ours wouldn't allow their son to have books until he
    could keep them in good condition. Now they're concerned that he's not
    interested in them!
    
    		Ian G.

    I think the most important factor is age-appropriate books. Berk seemed
    to have no interest in "stories" at less than about 15 months. UNtil
    then it was picture books with a few words on each page. He did love
    those books that have the flip up panels that revel something but at
    about 1 year he didn't have the coordination to lift them and most
    ended up torn off despite that fact that he loved them. I started
    looking around for  some very simple stort books. His favorite to this
    day is "The Little Mouse, the Big Hungry Bear and the Red Ripe Strawberry".
    The illustrations are beautiful, you never see the bear and my son has
    grown with the book because the illustrations provide so much detail if
    you want to look into them. It's books like that that threw him into
    being able to sit for reading. He will now sit through most books but a
    few are still to long for him (he's almost 3) and loves to read by
    himself as well. If you are at all in doubt about the types of
    age-appropriate books for your child, as place like the Early Learning
    Centers can provide you with some excellent information and
    recommendations. 
    
    Seeing you as a parent reading is also extremely important- even if it
    just a newpaper or a magazine and let them know you are reading.
    
    Andrea                                                          

    Starting at about 5-6 months David liked the plastic "books" that
    just have pictures on each page. He can chew on them and throw
    them without damaging them, and he does look at the pictures and
    turn the pages sometimes.
    
    Just lately (he's 14 months now) he's started to enjoy picture
    books that show babies playing with toys or taking baths or other
    stuff he recognizes.  He'll get the biggest grin on his face.  And
    he likes having his big brother read Berenstain Bears books to
    him.  Which is fun for Steven, who is just learning to read and
    loves to practive.  But how many times can you listen to the Bear
    Detectives and that bone thief, Snuff?
    
    Another thing that helps David is if he stands up and looks at the
    book as I hold it on my lap.  He doesn't like to sit still -- he
    even likes to read his bedtime story while he stands up in his
    crib and I hold the book where he can see it.  As soon as I turn
    over the last page, he hugs me and then snuggles down into the
    bed.  The kid likes his sleep . . . 
    
    --bonnie

    Marc really likes books that "do" something.  We have a book "My House"
    which has lots of little flaps that you lift to see what's in the
    dishwasher, closet, refrigerator, etc.  As soon as we turn the page, he
    immediately lifts the flaps.  He also likes pop-ups, and will
    open and close the book 1,000 times to see whatever-it-is pop up. 
    Mainly, he likes to turn the pages and point to things.  He isn't all
    that interested yet in "real" stories.

    All childeren are different.  My godson would rather have died than be
    read to as a young child.  Now, he loves to read.  His folks never
    forced him.
    
    My daughter (the human electron) always loved to be read to.  That was 
    how her pedi determined that she was incredably over-active not
    hyper-active.  IT was the only time she would sit still.  She would
    listen to anything.  I would read Wall St J to her before she was 1
    month old.  She also liked National Geo - especially the photos.  We
    don't know how long she would sit and be read to.  We run out of voice
    wya before she runs out of 'listen'.  We read to her at bedtime and
    then she looks through the books herself.  She would always have a book
    in her crib.  Strange thing is she is mildly dyslexic and has a hard
    time reading herself.  But she really works at it and can't wait to
    read
    herself.

    I started reading to Shane from day 1 (I also started watching Sesame
    Street with him from day 1).  He may not have realized what was going
    on in the beginning, but now when I read to him, or when he watches
    Sesame Street, he actually laughes if something is funny (he's only
    4 1/2 months old).  He never tries to grab the books away and he
    really does seem intent.  As a matter of fact, last night my sister
    came over and I was showing her the two Christmas books I got for
    Shane.  One was a book with Christmas carols and the other one was
    "The Night Before Christmas".  We sang all the carols to Shane and
    he sat in his walker and didn't take his eyes off of us.  Then my
    sister read him "The Night Before Christmas" and he laughed when
    she made funny voices.  I've subscribed to the Dr. Seuss books,
    the Disney Babies books (they're board books), the Disney books and
    the Sesame Street books.  I've also gotten some of those soft plastic
    books with squeekers in them for him to "read" to himself.  I don't
    think it's ever too early to start reading to them or letting them
    enjoy books.  I learned to to read before I was even in nursery
    school and was reading on a 6th grade level in 1st grade because
    my mother did the same thing for me.
    
    Lori B.

    We started reading to Eric since day 1.  We started with picture
    books with very little words on it.  I remember clearly by 9 month
    old I have read Eric at least 10 books and he has name for each
    of them (Eric talks at 6 month and can say simple words such
    as tiger, rabbit, etc.. at 9 month).  By 1 year old, we joined
    the Disney Book Club.  When Eric turned 1 1/2, he started reading
    himself.  He will just sit in his room, go through all the books,
    and started to tell stories like we do.  He has excellent memory,
    can remember every word we said.  Now he is 28 month old, he will
    easily spend several hours in his room reading books.  All our
    friends are constantly amazed by his reading.
    
    I just started to teach him A,B,C... and some simple words.
    Hopefully, he will start to "read" the book soon and not just
    memorizes the story.
    
    So, if you ask me when to start?  I would say - "day 1".
    
    Wendy

    I can't think of an age when books weren't a part of my kids lives, but
    what that _means_ varies greatly over time.  As with Dottie, my kids
    got lots of songs and nursery rhymes practically from birth.  For
    parents of first born infants, books exist to avoid the parental mental
    breakdown that would arise from repeating the same nursery rhyme over
    and over; you need books so you can enlarge your repertoire.  This is
    redundent by the time of the second child, since you already know every
    silly rhyme ever penned.  But by then you know the enobling effect on
    the little dears of being read to from actual books, even if the kid is
    paying no attention at all, anyway.  When the kid gets a little older,
    they get to the intermediate stage of literary appreciation that
    focuses on chewing and tearing; hopefully you have by this point
    learned to segregate _their_ books from your first edition autographed
    copy of Wind in the Willows and the like.
    
    I do, in fact, believe that there is value in introducing reading aloud
    well before the words (or pictures) will be directly meaningful.  There
    is more to loving language and books than the mere meaning of the
    words, and the _emotional_ richness of reading aloud together can be
    established well before anything is _understood_.  As an example of the
    latter effect from the other side:  even after reading The Lord of the
    Rings to himself (in 2nd grade; I read it to him in kindergarten),
    Aaron loved practically nothing in the world more than coming into to
    Eric's room at his bedtime, as I read him Frog and Toad are Friends (or
    whatever).  There was a special four-way symbiosis between the three of
    us and the book that was magic to Aaron, even though he no longer had
    any conceivable interest in that book on its own merits.  Earlier.
    Aaron had in fact learned to read (more or less) when he was just 4. 
    But he speant a full year pretending (most of the time) that he
    _couldn't_, because he was afraid he might start getting less reading
    aloud.  His parents happily went along with this pretense, as we felt
    that mutual enjoyment of books and words was far more important than
    who was in fact decoding those silly little phonic symbols.
    
    Now, there have also been phases for each boy (when little) when
    they _didn't_ want books read to them, and that was considered fine,
    too.  Instead, we'd do just songs, or dad would be required to
    extemporize new stories in real time on a specified theme. Forcing
    books on an unwilling child would be about as counter productive as I
    can imagine.
    
    This _does_ bring back memories:
    
    		Doctor Fostor
    		Went to Gloucester,
    		In a shower of rain.
    		He stepped in a puddle,
    		Up to his middle,
    		And never went back again.
    
    Even a three month old can love _that_!  And you're not doing it right
    if you only do it from memory.
    
    		- Bruce
    
    p.s.  Last week I finished _James and the Giant Peach_ with Eric, and
    Aaron was there for every word!

    We read to Michael from day 1 too.  And till he was about 6 months old
    he seemed to enjoy lying still and listening to the sound of his mom or
    dad's voice.  We read him the newspaper, or whatever novel one of us
    happened to be reading, or a magazine, or a baby book or whatever. 
    Since about 6 months he has exhibited the behavior described in the
    base note.
    
    We have bought board books with just pictures, cloth books, plastic
    books, pop-up books ... you name it, we've tried it.  I guess we'll
    just continue reading *at* him till he wants us to read *to* him.  Even
    if he isn't actively participating, the quiet time before bed gives him
    a chance to wind down and get ready for sleep, so it does accomplish
    something.
    
    I fully agree that forcing him would be a big mistake.
    
    Thanks for the comments!
    
    Steve

    I concur with those who see the real interest taking hold after 6
    months. On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with "from day 1". I
    think the real issue is to see books as a normal part of life, habit
    if you will, rather than to consider early exposure to books as some
    kind of learning tool.   
    
    To that end, our family pattern is that when it's time for
    "books-and-bed" (this is a single concept!), from the age of 6 months
    or so, each child gets into pajamas sits on the big bed and each gets
    three books. (With kids age 6, 3, 1 this can be logistically 1: a
    nightmare 2: hilarious -- take your choice. Then there's the horror of
    reading the some particularly popular book 200 times over the  course
    of six years -- but children's books are cheap and libraries are
    free.....)
    
    The 6 year old still insists on his quota, but also gets to read in bed
    on his own.  This is a trick my parents had: If bedtime is 7:30, it was
    lights out, unless you were reading in bed, in which case you got an
    extra half hour.  I still can't go to bed without reading, no matter
    how exhausted I am.
    
    While we encourage books that we like and think are interesting, we try
    not be too didactic -- in large part they get to choose what they want.
    
    It's a wonderful, wonderful time of day.
    
    Kit

    Kit,
    
    re:  "It's a wonderful, wonderful time of day."   Does this mean that
    reading is limited to bedtime.  I'd think it could be enjoyable at
    *any* time of the day!
    
    Carol
    

    And, for those parents worried (in other strings) about how to cope
    with  long cross country trip, or the like, the answer is: help your
    kids learn to love reading!
    
    For example, last summer, on the way to northern Wisconsin to visit my
    father, we had two separate planes sandwiched between a total of 3 1/2
    hours of  driving - some 8 or 9 hours altogether - and with only one
    parent to entertain two kids.  But Aaron was deeply into books in The
    Dark Is Rising series at the time, and could hardly be distracted from
    the moment we set out.  I think he hardly noticed when we got off one
    plane in Detroit, waited an hour, and then got on another one.  Another
    year and Eric will probably be at this self-entertaining stage too. 
    But I think we will _still_ be reading aloud at bedtime.
    
    		- Bruce

    Carol - 
    
    As ritual, it's restricted to bed time. On an ad hoc basis, we
    sometimes read at other times. But that is related to the child's
    interest (#1 seldom asks for that, #2 is more interested in initiating
    reading at times other than bedtime, #3 is just getting to the point
    where she could as), the other activities available,
    our presence at home (my wife works full-time plus, and my regular
    schedule is 7 AM-1 PM), etc.  My point is that it is not so much the
    reading itself that's enjoyable (there are other things I'd rather be
    reading), but the official quiet time for entering the world of books
    and teaching kids what a joy books are.
    
    Kit

    Without reading all these replies, let me add...
    
    Don't be too sure your child isn't hearing the stories you read even
    though they aren't paying attention.  My 5 year old ists on my lap and
    my 3 year old plays with his toys while we read, but the 3 year old
    will definately let me know if I told the story wrong (just
    checking...)
    
    -sandy
    

    Ian, my oldest, entered kindergarden this year.  His teacher began
    D.E.A.R. time.  This translates to "Drop Everything And Read".  Right
    after break time, the kids file into their room, get a book and sit
    down on the floor.  The teacher gets her book and sets the timer for 10
    minutes.  There is NO talking, moving, etc.  
    
    Even though most of these kids can't read yet, it is a valuable time to
    become familiar with books and the process of reading.  Ian enjoys it
    so much that on weekends he oftens says "Let's have some D.E.A.R time"
    
    Regards,
    Nanci
    

    Along these lines I need some advise on the subject of reading to them.
    AJ's latest "thing" is to come to either me or his dad with a book and
    a pitful plea of "you read to me please, I don't know how to read".  Of
    course we'll oblige whenever time permits, that's day or night.  It
    seems at daycare they read to the children frequently, and have some of
    those books with accompanying cassette tapes, the children know how to
    work the cassette player.  I can definitely see a bookworm breeding in
    my house, and for a lot of reasons I think it's wonderful, especially
    since he's borderline hyperactive and this will keep him entertained
    for long periods, but the request to be read to, and him announcing he
    can't read tugs at me terribly.  
    
    Any advise?
    
    Lyn
    

    
    
    Lyn,
      
    I think it is wonderful that AJ likes books.  The best thing I think
    you can do regards a reply is something like, "Maybe you can not read now
    but some day soon you will."  Then point out all the signs that he is
    well on his way:  that he can recognize certain alphabet letters,
    numbers, etc.  Let him know that by learning these things, he actually
    is developing knowledge that will help him to read.
    
    As long as AJ does not box himself into thinking he'll never read, he'll 
    be fine.  It's alright to realize where he is in his journey but also 
    realize he can still reach his destination!    
    
    
    					Darlene
    
    
    In other words "Today's CAN'Ts are tomorrow's CANs!"

Lyn,

I agree with Darlene and would add: make sure he has some books that
he "can" read - books with one word per page or no words at all.  
Kathleen (3) reads these books by herself and Sally (5) reads the 
books that she's memorized from hearing them so many times.  Both 
kids are absolutely convinced that Sally can read - when I came to 
pick them up last night they were cuddled up in a beanbag chair and
Sally was reading "Wild Things" to Kathleen, along with the extra
words that I throw in!


You may have to look around for no-word books that will hold his 
attention (not baby books), but there are some good ones out there,
including pop-up books and elaborate "Find XXX" books (XXX = someone
or something hidden on each page.)

    .0
    
    We started Alex (now 3 1/2) reading books to him at about 6 months. He
    liked the plastic ones he could chew on.  
    
    Since books can be rather expensive, Alex and I make our own.  We use
    a used 3-ring binder, take some white paper and cut pictures out of
    magazines, paste them onto 3-hole punched paper and voile, a new book.
    Sure helps when it's raining out and we both enjoy making up our
    own stories.  Of course, we also find some 'type' in the magazine with
    the letters A L E X and paste it on the front of the story!  Alex
    then reads the story over and over again until he's happy with the
    script!

    My sister-in-law makes books from the (copious) photographs that she
    takes.  She gets the photo-album inserts & puts them in 3-ring binders.
    Then, she & Ryan (age 2 1/4) make up the story to go with the pictures.
    
    They did a really neat one about recycling.  Pictures of Ryan helping
    to sort the trash, Ryan taking out the garbage, Ryan at the recycling
    center.
    
    She did a story for Cory about his first birthday.
    
    They're really neat !
    
    - Terry
    

    I would like to know if "Hooked On Phonics" by Gateway Educational is
    good or bad.  We have gotten work books on phonics to help our 7 years
    old.  I would like some recommdation on audio and/or video cassette. 
    There are a few tapes in the library that we have seen.
    
    Thanks,
    Ben 

There's some discussion of "Hooked on Phonics" in ASABET::LEARNING_DISABILITIES
note 117.  In that note I offered to type in an article that appeared in
the Boston Globe a few weeks ago.  I have the article and will try to
type it in when I get the time.