Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Ryan (2 and 4 mos.) went to see Santa at the mall with Dad 2 weeks ago.
    When I asked what he'd told Santa he wants for Christmas, he stated
    very clearly : DOG FOOD.
    

    When she was 3 all Emily asked for for Christmas was a pink toothbrush! 
    (Go figure!)  Anyway, I looked all over town for three weeks for a pink
    toothbrush and finally found one at about 6:00 p.m. on Christmas Eve!  
    
    
    
    
    I do believe in Santa Claus!  :-)
    
    Nanci

    Leslie,
    
    We have that tape too! It sounds like I better hurry up and make a copy
    of it for future use. We are wearing it out. Justine is not yet 2 and
    every morning since we got it she asks for Micky, Pluto, Donald.
    
    Those are amazing old cartoons they found for that tape. I, myself
    like the wind up toys in that sequence.
    
    This of course is our first year of discovering what Santa is all
    about. My sitter has a large Santa in her front yard and Justine
    out of the blue one morning said, "Hi Ho Ho". I asked my sitter and
    she said they had been practicing saying what Santa says which is
    "Ho Ho Ho".
    
    This is going to be one fun year!

Matt is 2� and has bugging me all week to take him to the mall to see Santa.
(Last year he CRIED when he sat on Santa's lap for picture-taking!)

So, Friday we took him.  As soon as he saw Santa he totally changed his mind.
He did NOT want to go up to him, he just clung to my husband.  So Santa came
over to him to give him an elf hat, and Matt just buried his head in my
husbands coat!  :-)

But, he wants Santa to bring him a big Bulldozer and Loader (Tonka, I believe!)
We'll try again this weekend.  Maybe Matt just has to get used to seeing him
in person, before he'll be brave enough to talk to him.

� �ori �

    Lori,
    
    I also took Eric (28 months old) to the mall to see Santa last 
    Saturday.  He also refused to go up to him.  However, he
    still wanted to give Santa his gift list, he told me he
    will mail the list to Santa. :-)
    
    Wendy
    

    In Jessica's official letter to Santa (as opposed to the verbal
    requests to me) she listed Baby Uh Oh, Hush Little Baby, and 
    a car and table with chairs for her Barbie and Ken dolls.
    
    Jessica, almost 4, also included a request for a big truck for her 
    little brother, almost 2, (because Billy can't talk yet Mommy, but 
    he told me he wants a big truck) and a big stuffed bear for Baby Jesus 
    (because the wise men didn't bring him any toys.)
    
    RE: Santa in person
    
    Last weekend she saw Santa outside Osco Drug in Milford, NH. She walked
    right up to him, no problem, but then only talked in a whisper so he 
    couldn't hear a word she said.  The Santa handled it well with lots of
    "ho ho ho"s and "I know you've been a good girl because I've been
    watching you" (she seemed real impressed with that one).
    
    Donna-who-loves-being-Santa-Claus
    

    I wanted to let everyone know that somebody wonderful sent me mail on a
    Discovery Toys ark, and it sounds super.  26 pieces (9 pair of
    critters), wooden, "heirloom quality."  I can't wait!
    
    The master plan is for Santa to leave a note explaining that the ark
    shown in the cartoon was very popular, but the elves had to stop making
    it because too many children were getting their fingers pinched by all
    the moving pieces.  (Oh what a tangled web we weave....)
    
    Leslie

Several weeks ago we took Evan (age 2 1/2) to Toys R Us so we could find out
what he likes.  He *really* liked a 1 ft long school bus made by BuddyL (or
something like that).  He liked a lot of other things, too, so we were
going to buy him the school bus because we didn't feel it was fair to take
him there and tantalize him then walk out empty handed.  Well, toward the
end he decided he really liked the FP airplane and wouldn't let go of it.
Shellie said she would put the schoolbus back if he didn't put back the 
airplane.  He finally put back the airplane and then quite clearly said
he didn't want the schoolbus either (first mistake).  So Shellie put it
back on the shelf (second mistake).  :-)

When we left he asked for the bus.  She told him that since he said he didn't
want it, she had put it back.  Major tears and anger.  Soooo, I said, "Evan,
if you want the school bus then you can ask Santa or Grandma and you will
get it for Christmas.  Or you can buy it with your own money [at which point
he said, OKAY! and took my hand and started in - with no money, of course],
but you don't have enough money," I finished.

Luckily this did the trick.  The next day, though, he asked for money from
me, and when I gave him a nickel, he announced that now he had enough to buy
the school bus!  (smart kid)  Shortly thereafter he wanted me to tell him a 
story at bedtime, so I told him the story about Evan and the School Bus, adding
that although he kept asking for money he just didn't have enough, so he
asked Santa and he got one (in lots of detail).  A week ago we went to the
mall and Santa walked by him.  Evan was up in a backpack on Shellie's back so
he felt pretty secure.  Santa held out his hand to shake and Evan TOOK IT!
I was impressed.  Then Santa asked him what he wanted for Christmas and Evan
got out the one word that mattered, "BUS!"  We smiled and nodded, and Santa
gave a smiling non-committal answer, but now we can remind Evan that he asked
Santa for it (so he can quit saving up his/OUR money for it).  ;-)

The moral of this story?  Who needs a moral!  I was just having fun bragging
about how Evan finally talked to Santa!  ;-)

     Carol

    RE: BUDDY L TOY-This is an old toy company which has been making toy
    vehicles for quite some time now (early 1900's). FYI
    
    
    
    Peace,
    mike

re: .8

>The moral of this story?  

	Never take a child to a toy store at Christmastime.

:^)

re: .9

They still make 'em out of metal too.  This is the fourth consecutive year 
that my son has had a school bus on his list.  I think he already has more 
Buddy L's than the school district has buses.

Clay

    Well, Berk sat on Santa's lap this year with no fears. We prepped him
    with the fact that he didn't have to sit on his lap but he did have to
    tell him what he wanted so Santa would know what to bring him. 
    
    Now the difficult part...Berk (2.75 years) proceeded to describe to
    Santa in very explicit details about the "machines" he wanted. First
    there is "that machine that puts down the asphalt", then we had to add
    the "machine that flattens down the road" and then we topped it all off
    with the "machine that paints the lines". He then proceeded to tell
    Santa how he was going to use them all and that he was going to park
    them all in the garage and Momomy and Daddy would have to keep their
    cars outside and there was no way that Santa was going to get a word in
    edge-wise until Berk had finished describing every detail and he
    confirmed with Santa that he undewrstood what he wanted. Santa was daffled 
    and luckily caught onto the fact that this kids has a fascination with 
    construction machines. He merely promised him a machine or truck. Thanks 
    Santa!! I don't know how he would have gotten a steam roller down the 
    chimney anyways!!!!
    
    I'm avoiding any construction or road repair areas these days.
    
    Andrea

    When Steven was that age, he wanted a crane for Christmas -- "Not
    one of the little ones, Mama. It has to be big enough to build a
    building with."
    
    --bonnie

    Now that Amy is FIVE - she is getting too clever at Christmas time and
    I am getting worried.  She isn't in school yet and REALLY believes in
    Santa in a major way.  Over the weekend we saw three different
    "Santa's" in the stores.  She "told" me that these were helpers and the
    real Santa is still at the North Pole making toys.  She basically
    justified why there was more than one Santa to me for reassurance.  I
    am getting nervous folks.  Besides using different wrapping paper for
    "Santa's" gifts than the rest under the tree, are there any more
    helpful hints? 
    
    I believed in Santa for the longest time and it truly was great.  I
    really want to prolong the magic as long as possible.

    RE: .-1, prolonging the belief in Santa
    
    Now that I look back, I realize that I figured out in my head that my
    parents were Santa *years* before I ever admitted it, even to myself. 
    A child's belief in Santa is such a magical fantasy, and I guess I just
    didn't want to give it up.  I was actually relatively old (like maybe
    10 or 11) before I stopped leaving cookies and milk, etc.  So you might
    not have anything to worry about.  Remember, your child just might
    *like* believing in Santa enough not to want to know the truth!
    
    RE: Children's lists for Santa
    
    Well, our Michael got to sit on Santa's lap this afternoon.  At just
    under 11 months, he had no idea what was going on of course, but Pat
    dressed him up in his little red velvet Christmas outfit and took him
    to the mall to get his picture taken.  When she put him in Santa's lap
    he turned to Santa and gave him a big smile and a small tug on the
    beard.  Then he turned around and saw that his Mom was backing away. 
    That did it.  He spent the rest of the time screaming and reaching for
    his Mom.  No amount of talking, singing, toys, playing, or anything
    else would stop him from crying.
    
    This occurred after they went to Olin Mills for a Christmas portrait,
    and Michael refused to leave his Mom's arms.
    
    So much for our "First Christmas" picture.  Sigh...
    
    Steve

	How about we take the rathole of whether or not to "do Santa" and when 
to tell them the truth to another note?

	I'll go start one up.

Tracey 

    re .13
    
    I don't remember how old I was when I figured out that Santa was really
    Mom and Dad, but I put 2 and 2 together when I noticed that they used
    the same wrapping paper!
    
    Now that we're all older, each of us gets 2 stocking stuffers for each
    other, even Mom and Dad!  
    
    
    Judi
    

    The mention of same/different wrapping paper intrigues me. We always
    knew what was from Santa because it wasn't wrapped - just laid out
    under the tree.... and the same with our stocking stuffers. I didn't
    start wrapping stocking stuff til I met my husband.
    
    

    So those of you who do take active steps to protect the magic of
    Santa -- what do/will you tell your kids when they notice that
    Santa brings presents to the kids whose families already have
    money and not to  the kids whose families don't have enough money
    to buy them presents?  When they want to know why Santa doesn't
    give the presents to the ones who need it the most first? 
    
    I sense that this is the crux of a good part of why it never
    occurred to me that a parent would want a child to believe in the
    illusion of a real Santa -- a poor child KNOWS indubitably from a
    very young age that there ain't no such thing. There aren't any
    presents from Santa and there probably isn't anything from Mom and
    Dad, either.  If you're lucky there might be some from the local
    Santa Fund or soup kitchen, but you know those came from other
    people's generosity, and if your parents are like mine, they'd
    rather do without than accept that kind of charity.  
    
    --bonnie

    > We always knew what was from Santa because it wasn't wrapped - just
    > laid out under the tree.... 
    
    I wondered if I was the only one...  Santa just drops the presents in
    the living room and leaves -- he doesn't have time to wrap them and
    still make it around the world before dawn!
    
    > So those of you who do take active steps to protect the magic of Santa
    > -- what do/will you tell your kids when they notice that Santa brings
    > presents to the kids whose families already have money and not to  the
    > kids whose families don't have enough money to buy them presents?  
    
    I asked that question once, but I think I was pretty old when it
    occurred to me.  My mother told me that she and dad paid Santa for the
    gifts that he brought.  That was enough to satisfy me, and I don't
    remember ever bringing it up again.
    
    Steve

    My 5 1/2 year old asked me the other day if the Easter Bunny was real. 
    I told him he was as real as Santa.  Boy, was he relieved!!
    
    -sandy
    

    Help, I need some advice about what to tell a 6 year old when he
    doesn't get Super Nitendo this year. 
    
    Between going through the fliers and all the commercials on Nicklodeon,
    he has compiled quite an extensive list for Santa.  
    
    Has anyone successfully gone through this?  Can I say something now so
    he won't be wondering why he isn't getting Super Nitendo ($199.99),
    video writer ($89.00), etc., on Christmas morning?  (he already has
    Nitendo.)  
    
    We can really only afford to get on big item or several smaller ones. 
    I opted for the smaller ones (Tornadeo Rex, Dueling Dudes, etc.).  
    
    I feel so bad!
    
    Linda

    
    	Wow! That's quite a Christmas list, I don't blame you for not being
    able to fill it! There sre some ways that you can get around this,
    
    	Ask him to prioritize his gifts saying that Santa is very busy with
    all  of the children and will get him his favorites (of course this
    could backfire if he wants the Nintendo most), or that Santa will get
    him what he can. Make sure your child knows that what he gets is no
    reflection on who he is ("I'm bad, Santa didn't get me Nintendo").
    Prioritizing is also a great exercise in making decisions.
    
    	Get him to realize that Christmas is giving as well as receiving,
    have him put mittens on a mitten tree (usually found at local
    hospitals) have him go with you to drop off food for soup kitchens,
    have him help you wrap a gift for a needy child, etc. I don't think
    that 6 is too young to realize that there are other boys and girls that
    are much less fortunate than him and that those boys and girls won't
    get anything for Christmas. (I know that this reeks of your parents
    using "be thankful for what you got" to explain their shortcomings, but
    if you *really* believe that this is what the holiday season is about
    (no matter what your religion) then your child will believe it also).
    
    
    	If all else fails, tell him that he can save up for the Nintendo
    using some Christmas and allowance money. My husband's cousins (3 boys
    7, 11, 14) all pooled their allowance money together to buy a video
    system. This meant going without spending money for a month. They did
    it, they have the system and it most probably means more to them than
    if it were just given to them.
    
    	Good luck, I look forward to being in your shoes in a few years,
    for now, a two month old is really easy to buy for. ;-)
    
    				Wendy

    Is there anything wrong with telling him, "I'm sorry, honey, we
    love you very much and would like to get you everything you want,
    but we don't have enough money this year"?  
    
    --bonnie

re .23,  Bonnie that's fine if the child knows YOU were thinking of buying
	it, but if (like in my case) s/he still believes in Santa, it's
	a little tough !!

re .21, Linda, since your child already has regular Nintendo and it's Super
	Nintendo you can't afford, maybe you could tell him (?) that Santa
	had so many other kids to try to make happy he figured he couldn't
	satisfy ALL the wishes and so left off S.N. knowing he already has
	the regular one for now ????

Not a fun thing, I know.  Luckily my 7-year-old hasn't asked for anything
super expensive this year !!!! However, whether or not I can find the things
he HAS asked for is another question ?!!?!!!!

Debbi J

    How about saying that the child will get some of the things on his list
    but not all.  That has always worked for us in the past.  They get some
    things from their list from "SANTA" and others things they might like
    from Mom and Dad.  So far so good.
    

    Thanks everyone.
    
    I guess the magic of Santa and the reality of the economy are clashing
    here.  
    
    .24 Thanks for the suggestion.  That's great and I think he will
    understand.  With the things we have gotten, I think/hope in all the
    excitement, he will be overwhelmed with what was left and not notice
    what was NOT left.
    
    Why did they have to come out with a new super nitendo anyway?  He just
    got good with the old one!  
    
    Thanks,
    Linda
      

    
    
     
     Tell him that since he already has a Nintendo system santa decided
    to give the SN to another family that does'nt have one at all.
    
    I have said this to my boys and they excepted it with no problems.
    They also have a regular Nintendo and have since asked for a SN and
    a gameboy.
    They have also asked for the samething as a previous Christmas on account
    the toy is now broken or does'nt have all its pieces anymore.
    I told them Santa would never replace something they did'nt take
    good care of.  He would rather give the joy of the gift to some other
    little boy that never has been able to play with that toy before.
    
    It works for me!
    
                                        Kathy

    The temptation to say "See the trouble you get into when you start
    telling lies to your kids?" is almost irresistable... but I know
    most parents don't see it that way, so I won't.
    
    --bonnie

    	Well, Bonnie, I see it that way too.
    
    	Call me a pragmatist, call me a scrooge, but even though I'm a 
    Christmasaholic and love just about everything about the season, Santa
    is just not my favorite guy.  
    
    	Katie is 2 1/2 and while I will not go out of my way to disillusion
    her, we will not do anything to perpetuate the myth. (Other than Santa
    is character like Big bird that people like to make up stories about 
    to help people be kind and giving to one another.) We ask her what she 
    wants *Mommy and Daddy* to bring her for Christmas and so on.  
    
    	Tracey
    

    It's interesting how things have changed, too.  13 years ago when
    Kat was 5, nobody in her kindergarten class thought Santa was
    real.  Last year Steven  got in [minor] trouble for telling a
    first-grade classmate that Santa wasn't real. 
    
    With Kat it wasn't much problem because she's a born cynic, but
    Steven is more of a romantic and he hasn't been willing to just
    accept the people-dressed-up explanation.  I wound up explaining
    to him that Saint Nicholas was a real man who lived a long time
    ago and who tried to do good things for poor people, like bringing
    them gifts and trees for Christmas, so now we honor the idea of
    his memory by dressing up in similar clothing and giving gifts to
    people who aren't as fortunate.  So "Santa" is us.  
    
    I also told him that since we have good jobs and enough money,
    instead of expecting other people to give us things, we should
    help out people who don't have as much money.  That was when we
    got involved with the Santa families program, and that seems to
    have meant a lot to him.  
    
    And I also tell him that gifts are something someone gives because
    they want to do something to make another person feel good,
    because they like the other person and want to make them happy. 
    Nobody owes you a gift.  
    
    And on the cynical side, I told him that stores have to sell
    things to make money, so sometimes they take things like Santa and
    try to use them to get people to buy more things, and that's why
    all the stores have Santas.  He was able to put two and two
    together on that one and figure out that your parents would have
    to buy it for you if Santa didn't . . . which brought about a
    repeat of "nobody HAS to give you a gift"...
    
    I expect that one will backfire on me in a year or two when he
    says "But I don't want to give any presents in school.  You said a
    gift should be because you like a person and I don't like the
    other kids!" Or something like that.  But we'll deal with that
    when the time comes :)
    
    --bonnie

Well, my oldest (6) wants a puppy (which most likely won't happen) and my 4 yr 
old wants a radio to play his cassettes.  I found an inexpensive radio (finally)
last night at Rich's for 12.99

The kids have been very easy on us this year as far as wants.  I have been able 
to find each item or talk them out of wanting the super expensive ones.  I'm not
sure how to work this puppy issue.  I think we will steer him closer to having
a caged pet until he gets the idea of taking care of animals and the major
responsibility that goes along with it!  I mean after all - rodents don't need
to be housebroken, walked daily, taught manners (no barking) etc.

-sandy

Regarding the puppy.

We have a dog (our 2nd one).  I talked my husband into the first.  When the dog
died young, J�rgen missed him so much he went out and got another.

At first the dog belonged to both boys but we quickly discovered that each
always said that it was the other one's turn to ...  So now the dog belongs
to Dirk who has shown more responsibility in looking after him.  The dog 
requires walking, attention, feeding, cleaning up after when he (rarely) has
an accident or is ill, large vet bills, and sometimes a hotel bill when we are
unable to take him with us on vacation.  For that he is an enormously
affectionate animal who is great fun to take in the snow and loves us
devotedly.  Unless we go to the US or the UK, he normally goes on vacation 
with us.

That left Mark with nothing so we got him an aquarium.  The amount of
work that has to be done is much less than with a dog and he manages it quite
well.  I think Mark is happy with that because he doesn't want the work that 
he sees Dirk having with the dog.

I would have gotten him a cat since they are pretty independent beasties which
mostly only need feeding but J�rgen doesn't like cats.

The problem with rodents is that there isn't much they can do with them.  They
are quite a lot of work (cleaning the cage is a messy job) with little 
pleasure.  Not much better than looking at the fish but a lot more work.
And then you have to do something with them when you go on vacation.  

Just our experience.

Cheryl

I understand what you are saying.  We had cats when the boys were younger, but
the older seemed to have allergies.  We gave the cats to my sister.  We have
done "pet-sitting" for both a retriever and a schnauzer.  The schnauzer was 
the best kind to have around the house.  Small enough to play with the kids and the right
kind of "hair" that didn't seem to aggrevate allergies.  He did show signs of
allergy towards the retriever.

We have friends who have "rats" for pets for each of their three kids (their
oldest has allergies, too).  The kids love them - they take them out to play 
with them, feed and water them daily, etc.  Kyle really likes that idea.  I
think Santa will provide a cage and all the trimmings and we can get the critter
after Christmas.  That way he still has time to decide.

See, Kyle, like Mark, prefers to take the easy way.  He doesn't want alot of
work - so a dog would not be appropriate at this time.  Even I don't want to
do alot of work with a dog - training is the big one.

-sandy

    
    Nathan has been pretty good about his Santa lists.  I have explained
    that Santa decides which of the gifts on his list that he (Nathan)
    would have the most fun with and gives him only the best on the list.
    I have noticed that what he asks Santa for when he sits on his lap
    and what he asks for in his list are very different though.
    
    When he was 2, he asked for a white teddy bear.  Last year, he asked
    for......a white teddy bear.  And this year, guess what he asked for.
    .....a white teddy bear!
    
    It's getting a little difficult finding a white teddy bear that is
    different from the ones he already has!
    
    Pam

    A couple of thoughts on this one, tough, although I haven't that
    problem yet, as Nathan is only 2...when we were young, we got things
    from the appropriate santa...undies from "better bottoms", socks from
    warm tootsies, pots from "Mrs. Claus", sewing supplies from "St. Nick
    and tuck"...you get the picture.  It was so much fun to make up the
    names and see if you could guess the contents from the hint.
    
    What I hope to do with Santa is have Santa get one special thing for
    the child (and the adults!), and stress my definition of Santa, which
    is pretty well discussed in Virginia's letter to the New York sun,
    dated in 1897, of which I have a wonderful reading by Rober J. Lurtzama
    from National Public Radio.  It discusses how Santa is real in our
    hearts, makes us feel good, helps us torecognise the season and all its
    needy and fun and magic, but that he is not your personal "stuff
    purchaser".  Santa is love, love is Christmas, and Christmas is my
    favorite time of year.  Still need some more development, but as I
    said, we have a few years to worry about this.  One thing we will have
    to do is make sure that my family's beliefs don't a) conflict or b) get
    too strong a showing, as this will cause quite a bit of confusion.  To
    that end, we will probably start staying home for some of the holiday
    starting next year...one hurtle at a time!
    
    Adrienne