Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Jeanne:
    
    How is she on weekends?  In other words, is it a "I hate all mornings"
    ritual OR a "I hate school days" ritual?
    
    My "reaction" is it IS in someway school related.  I'd talk with the
    teacher and get some feedback about your daughter's attitude, behavior
    and emotions during school time.  Is she interacting with the other
    kids? ... and getting along OK?, responsive?, cheerful?, playful?, etc.
    
    Jim's kid sister had a similar problem in school.  She is very gifted
    and smart (so her grades are always "high"), however, she lacks
    interpersonal skills, can be stubborn and display an overpowering
    behavior, none of which are reflective in her "coursework" grades!!
    (Jim's parents don't seem too bothered by the effort/conduct grades.)
    I personally think attitude and behavior can interfere with the
    development of EVEN THE SMARTEST of kids (other kids don't want to play
    with them, the teacher's are turned off by them ... and they are
    basically shunned and overlooked ... OR worst yet, labelled "trouble").
    
    I commend you for thinking beyond the grades, Jeanne!  
    
    Good luck.
    
    Dottie
                                                                 

    Could it be that your daughter is attempting to get a larger dose of
    attention [even if it's in a negative fashion]?  

>    I guess what I am asking is -- "is this behavior normal for a
>    seven-year-old" -- or should I seek professional help/advice?  

I think I could answer "yes" to both questions.  In situations like this, I 
have frequently found our pediatrician to be an excellent first source of 
advice.  

I definitely agree with .1, that you should set up a conference with your 
daughter's teacher.  And also, you or your husband should ask at daycare how 
she is when she gets there.  Does she need an hour or so to "wind down" to the 
"fine" condition your husband finds her?

And while I agree with .1 that you should note how she is on non-school days.  
However, if she is calm and cheerful, I wouldn't necessarily ascribe her 
problem to stress.  It could very well be a reaction to the stress of getting 
ready to go in the morning.  If your family is anything like ours was, 
mornings are a stressful time, and that's what she could be reacting to.  
Is starting a half hour earlier and option, at least as an experiment?
Is your husband calmer about this kind of thing, and is having him do the 
morning drop off an option?  

Clay

    I have two children also and find mornings to be stressful.  My
    daughter is 7 1/2 and my son is almost 5.  Things are better now that
    I'm a bit more organized.  It does sound like you may only (!!) be
    experiencing morning stress.  Also, I find my children to be
    competitive, so when one is getting attention (help with getting
    dressed), the other one acts up (can't find the toothpaste!).  Maybe
    you can do as someone else suggested and get up a little bit earlier
    (maybe 30 minutes) and get yourself dressed first; then tackle the
    kids.  Fortunately, you have your husband to help; I'm doing it alone.
    I also find it helpful to let the children know what the routine is.
    I almost always wake mine up and after they've had a chance to stretch,
    let them know today is a school day and we have to get going.  THen I
    make sure my older one has what she needs to get dressed and help my
    younger one with whatever he can't handle.  I find I practically have
    to talk them through it (the routine), but after awhile you don't mind.
    I tell them that they have to eat breakfast, brush their teeth, comb
    their hair and then just play until Mommy is ready.  
    
    Above all, please be gentle with yourself.  Your daughter is probably
    fine when your husband picks her up because the routine at school is 
    not as stressful as our working-family mornings are.  
    
    Good luck!
    

    RE: 1-4
    
    Thanks for the suggestions...it's helping me sort this out a bit.
    
    In response to some of the questions --
    
    Sometimes weekend behavior is the same, but I am realizing the behavior
    only seems to be that way when the environment consists of myself
    and the two children (my husband usually works Saturdays, and he leaves
    the house by 6 a.m.).
    
    Socially, she is very popular at school and at day care.  But I do
    want to set up a conference with her teacher -- I think that advice is 
    a good one.
    
    The more I think about it, I think it is a "I need your attention" 
    problem.
    
    My husband has suggested she and I do some Saturday "Mom & daughter
    only" things.  I'm going to do this.  It certainly can't hurt.
    
    Re: "morning stress"  -- so that's what it's called!!!! Yes, we 
    certainly have our share of that!
    
    Jeanne
    

    Boy can I relate to this one!!  I have two 7 year-olds and school/work
    mornings are stressful for all three of us.  Everything is a battle
    with at least one of them in the mornings, from what they are going to
    wear, eat, how they are going to wear their hair, to what shoes they
    will wear.  I find that if we pick out what they are going to wear for
    school the night before  (I'm talking the whole outfit right down to
    underwear, socks, which bow in their hair, etc) and they can choose as
    long as everything goes together, we don't battle about that in the
    morning.  We also pick out what they want for breakfast the night
    before.  Then I let them pick a book to read for 1/2 hour before bed
    time (which on school nights is 8:00, any later and they are a couple
    of cranks in the morning...).  If they are still too cranky to deal
    with after going to bed at 8:00 at night we move bed-time up to 7:30
    until they are more cooperative in the morning.
    
    Doing all those things in the previous paragraph cuts down dramatically
    on the arguments we have in the morning.  However, my girls do not like
    to be woken up in the morning so they are still kind of grumpy until
    they are fully awake.  I find they are much more cheerful on weekends
    when they can sleep until they wake up on their own.
    
    I really think this is very typical behavior for 7-year-olds though.
    They are at that age where they are not 'little kids' anymore but
    neither are they really 'big kids' yet.  They really want to be able
    to make their own choices and have some responsibilities.  Mine like
    to be able to chose which clothes they will wear and are responsible
    for getting themselves dressed.  They also have certain chores that
    they are responsible for and if they take care of them they earn
    a weekly allowance.
    
     

    There are two books that you might really enjoy right about now:  "How
    to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk" and
    "Liberated Parents - Liberated Children", both by Adele Faber and
    Elaine Mazlish.  
    
    This first one is very easy to read and implement.  The second one has
    more background on the philosophy of this approach.  
    
    These books may be at your library, or they are under $10 in paperback,
    or you can borrow mine! (send me mail)  
    
    I'm willing to bet that this would be really helpful to you!  
    
    Jane

    If I am recalling correctly, when I was about 7 or 8, I feel in love
    with the thought of "sleeping in". I realized how wonderful it was to
    sleep on Sundays (I had Saturday morning swim practice so that shot
    Saturdays) and staying in your pajamas until my mother hounded me out
    of them (usually about 2:00pm). I learned to love naps again!!
    
    School days certainly have a way a dampening that love for sleep!!
    
    Andrea

    I have this problem with Steven now (6 1/2) and I remember it from
    when Kat was that age.
    
    The main thing I found that helped was to give them as much
    control as possible over their morning routine.  Unless there was
    a clear reason of health or safety for me overriding their will, I
    let them do it their way.  Did Kat want to wear her favorite green
    sweater with her favorite orange blouse, so I thought she looked
    like a pumpkin?  Fine.  Most kids that age can't tell the
    difference anyway.  Did she want to wear it loose rather than tied
    back the way I liked it?  Fine, it's her hair.  As long as she was
    clean and presentable, the style was her choice.
    
    The advice to choose clothes the night before is good.  [Or you
    can pick out a "pool" of clothes acceptable for school and put
    them in a separate drawer or area of the closet.] Also do things
    such as making lunches, packing school bags, etc. the night before
    as much as possible. 
    
    --bonnie

    We also have the same problems.  I have a 9 year old daughter, and a
    seven year old son.  It does help to have them pick out their clothes
    the night before.  They seem to function much more easily in the
    mornings if everything has been done the night before.  Backpacks with
    last evenings homework are waiting by the door.  Lunch money is in a
    container on the dresser.  If they want to bring lunch, they have to
    help make it (preferably the night before).  This year my daughter has
    been tall enough to help make breakfast.  She can reach the
    toasteroven, or microwave and knows how to use them.  My son is still
    to short to reach them, but he usually helps set the table.  I
    constantly tell them what great helpers they are, (even if I have to do
    something over or help them).  This year seems to have been going a lot
    smoother than past years.  Maybe I'm just getting more organized.  My
    daughter and I no longer fight about what she wears.  She's the one
    that has to face her freinds, not me!  A few times she has worn
    something that I thought looked a little strange but I kept my feelings
    to myself.  After she gets home she tells me how so and so wouldn't sit
    by her or someone wouldn't talk to her because she looked wierd.  I
    just try not to let her see me smile.  Kids can be amazing...
    
    regards,
    
    Lynne C.
    

    I just love the support from this Notesfile!!!
    
    It's great to know I'm not "battling" alone out there.
    
    re: 6, 8, 9
    
    I agree.  Getting things done the night before USUALLY helps -- except
    when the weather doesn't cooperate -- or when I'm too exhausted to deal
    with it (which is, unfortunately, most of the time).
    
    re: 7
    
    I have the book, "How to Talk so Kids will Listen" and it is wonderful.
    Of course, I have to keep re-reading it so I remember to practice the
    helpful suggestions!
    
    re: Last night, I tried "more attention" and this morning was
    different!!
    
    Going on the theory that part of this may be her need for more
    attention, I went home last night determined to give her more.  I spent
    more time than usual -- gave her a bath, read stories...told her
    she can plan some upcoming Saturdays for the both of us.  This morning
    went much better...also, I found getting her to school early (rather
    than late or "right on time") erased the teary good-bye problem at
    school.  
    
    This has been a helpful discussion.  Thanks...
    
    Jeanne
    

    Jeanne,
    
    I am pleased for you that things are going better...
    
    I have had the same problems for a long time... and things have gotten
    better following alot of the advice given in previous notes.  There is
    however one thing I did, which I believe has added to the process...
    
    I actually had a long talk with my daughter (9 1/2) and we discussed
    our continual bickering... I was always nag, nag, nagging about the
    little things of life that need doing... get your pyjamas on, brush
    your teeth, pick up your toys... so on and so forth until I was ready
    to scream (which I did frequently !)  Well I honestly told her that it
    was very upsetting for me, that I did not want a 9 year old "baby" that
    still would not dress herself - what I really wanted was to be a team
    with her - help eachother get through these things that need doing as
    quickly as possible so that we could then have time together.  I told
    her it was a Mom's job to ensure their child's well being and that if
    she would help me with the unavoidable things we would have more
    together time... Well it worked !  I am less exhausted 'cause she does
    things on 2nd call (not 1000000th call !) and due to that I actaully am
    in a better mood both mornings and evenings...
    
    Keep doing whatever seems to help you - but it would appear that
    sometimes openly expressing your feelings actually gets through.

    Hi,
    
    I havn't read the other 12 replies, so if this is reduntant please
    forgive me.  I am short on time.
    
    I have been through this with my daughter and I have seeked
    professional help.
    
    The first thing I did was make a firm bedtime, 8:00 pm.  She must
    be ready with clothes laid out for the next day, bathed, teeth brushed
    and her story/game time over (she has a choice of whether she wants
    a story or I play a game with her, 20 minutes set aside just for her)
    by 8:00.
    
    The next thing I got was a calender and some pretty stickers.
    
    I then laid down the law, and posted  house rules
    and the consquences for breaking them on the refrigerator.  
    
    In the morning, she must get up and get dressed within 20 minutes, 5
    minutes to stretch and the next 15 to get ready.  She must be do
    this the first time asked.  She must then sit down and eat and
    after that brush her teeth and wash her face, again only being asked
    once.   If she does her "things" as asked she gets a sticker on
    the calender for that day.  If she does not, she gets 15 minutes
    taken off of her bedtime that evening.   On Friday if she has 4
    stickers she gets to do something she wants to do special.  A special
    meal, go to the cornor store for a treat, nothing big just something
    to show accomplishments.  
    
    
    Hope this helps, it worked for me.
    
    Chris

    It makes me a little nervous to see an earlier bedtime be the result of
    not behaving properly in the morning.  It's hard not to view the
    earlier bedtime as a punishment, and I really believe that going to bed
    should be just another part of the day's activities.  If it's used as a
    punishment, it could easily be made a time to be dreaded, fought, and 
    whined over.
    
    I guess I'd just be very careful to explain that she is going to bed
    earlier because she seems to need more sleep in order to get everything
    done on time in the morning.
    
                                                   Tracy