Conference moira::parenting_v3

    I assume you mean that you're worried about taking a new job and going
    on leave of absense shortly thereafter.  If this is not what you're
    worried about, please disregard the rest of this note :-)
    
    <FLAME ON>
    
    What the !@#$%&* difference should it make if you're pregnant (or even
    thinking about becoming pregnant).  If you want to get a new job, go
    get one!  No manager has the right to not hire someone because they
    were pregnant (probably illegal to boot!).  If you end up going out on
    leave, SO WHAT??  You'll do the best job you can while you're there,
    and most likely, be back after you leave (but even if you won't be back
    at all, I say again SO WHAT??)
    
    <FLAME OFF>
    
    I can see where this is a legitimate concern, though, but I would
    really urge you to do what is best for your job situation and let the
    pregnancy issue take care of itself.  And who knows anyway, how long it
    will take for you to conceive.
    
    My sister teaches in New York City and when she was interviewing this
    past summer, the principal of a school ACTUALLY ASKED HER if she was
    planning on becoming pregnant soon.  (She lied and said no).  I still
    can't believe she even got asked that (by a female principal no less)
    today in 1990.

    If paid maternity leave is important for you, you might want to find
    out the prospective company's policy on it.  At a company that my
    friend works for, you get paid maternity leave only after a year of
    service.
    
                                            Tracy

    
    Every once in awhile, I get accused of thinking like a manager, too.
    Not often, though, since I are one.
    
    Anyway, allow me to give you my perspective of the
    interviewing-while-pregnant dilema:   I believe that you should pursue
    a new job if you are unhappy in your current position.  There is
    nothing wrong with this - it's your right.
    
    If I am looking for a long term resource, the prospect of a leave of
    absense of less than 3 months is workable.   This is not easy,
    understand, since my group is staffed below critical mass - but it is
    workable.   So - if you were interviewing with me, I would want you to
    be honest so that we could plan for this.  The fact that you are
    pregnant, or will shortlly require a leave would not adversely effect
    your prospects of working for me if you are well qualified otherwise.
    
    I realize that it's illegal to ask if a person is pregnant or not (or
    even if they have children, their marital status, etc...) in an
    interview, but let's get a few realities on the table here.  First,
    if you are planning to work for a person or group for a long period of
    time, it is unwise to begin the relationship with a lie.  If there is 
    a problem with having a pregnant person in the group, then you should
    find out before the commitment is made by you.  (and you might want to
    advise the interviewing manager that his/her attitudes border on
    illegal, and do not follow federal EEO guidelines).  I personally would
    not want to work for someone or closely with someone who could not 
    accept the differences of pregnant women.
    
    Also, if you are showing at the time of the interview, it would be hard
    to "hide" the fact anyway.  A smart biggot would find some other reason
    not to hire you.   A dumb one will tell you that he/she cannot hire
    someone who will be leaving, even temporarily.
    
    If you are merely thinking about getting pregnant at the time of the
    interview... that's no one's business but your own, and I wouldn't
    dream of making a hiring decision with that as a decision factor anyway.
    
    Bottom line  - go for it.   A *real* manager will hire you if you are a
    good long term investment.   
    
    
    -m
    

    re: .4  Great note and great attitude.  Thanks!

    Remember, however, that the people who will become your fellow
    workers may well feel cheated if you show up for a few months
    and then leave, dropping extra work on them.
    
    I know of a woman who interviewed early in pregnancy for a job
    with a big company so she could get medical coverage.  She was
    on the job for the pregnancy, and then left before the birth
    after working about five months.  The birth went well, so she
    quit that job at the end of the disability period and went back
    to being a contractor elsewhere.
    
    Her co-workers were not happy with this.  For most of the five months
    she was being trained.  She had just started to do real work when she
    left, giving all the expectation that she would be back after the birth.
    Schedules had to be re-adjusted, time had to be taken to interview and
    hire someone to fill the slot, the work she'd started couldn't be picked
    up and had to be re-started, and so on.
    
    The EEO doesn't cover attitudes of co-workers, and even if it did,
    it wouldn't be enforcable.  Make sure you know what you're going to
    do, and what kind of commitments you can meet, and consider also
    what kind of burdens you'll be putting on co-workers.
    
    			-John Bishop

    I rarely respond to notes, but I went through this just a couple
    of months ago.  I was interviewing in another state and found
    out that I was pregnant.  I went through the "should I" or 
    "shouldn't I" tell them dilemma.  
    
    I met with Personnel who told me that I shouldn't tell them
    because it shouldn't matter because if it did, it would be
    discrimination.  I laughed and told him to get realistic.  I
    was concerned that if I didn't tell them, it would be dishonest
    and start the relationship off on the wrong foot.  
    
    The Personnel Consultant then made the point that by telling someone
    in an interview that you're pregnant, it could be misinterpretted as
    threatening.  Example:  if you don't get the job, you could cry
    disrimination against a pregnant woman.  I thought that was an
    interesting point of view...one I hadn't considered.
    
    My problem resolved itself in that the req was never posted and
    there are no openings where I'm moving (therefore LOA).   
    
    I think you should do what's right for you, and remember, if you plan
    to be in your next job for a couple of years minimum, that a mere 8
    weeks of disability is not that much time off.
    
    Good luck!
     

    A few years ago (employed by DEC, then and now), I got pregnant while
    interviewing for new positions in the company.  I had been trying to
    get pregnant for 9 months, and at the time, had no idea if or when
    I'd become pregnant.  In any case, I didn't feel that it was something
    that I needed to mention.  I received a job offer right around the
    same time I found out I was pregnant.  I decided that it was only fair
    to be up front with the hiring manager about my condition since it
    would no doubt have implications on the task for which I was to be
    hired in the not too distant future.  The job offer was not yet formal,
    and, I verbally gave the manager the latitude to reneg on the offer if
    this was going to cause a real hardship.  He extended the offer,
    regardless.  So, my experience has been positive by revealing my pregnancy
    to my (prospective) manager from the onset.  It is likely that you
    would not reach the outcome you desire with every prospective manager,
    but, if not, it's my opinion that that manager is probably not a 
    person who you'd want to work for.
    
    Do what feels right for you.  Good luck.
    
    Valerie                     
    every prospective manager

    Personally, I would say that if you are currently pregnant and not
    showing or planning on getting pregnant in the future, it is none of
    the hiring manager's business. If you are probably over 3 months
    pregnant, the manager could see for him/herself that you are pregnant
    and would probably really question when you are leaving your old job
    (i.e. just don't like it, just want insurance, etc). I think that you
    could answer your questions about leave policies, etc with the
    personnel rep - not the manager. Any personnel rep knows discrimination
    due to pregnancy is illegal. BUT, I do feel it is extremely important
    to be up front with your manager once the offer has been extended.
    Allowing them to reconsider you as a candidate for the position at that
    point is a decsion you make. It is a nice offer but don't make it
    unless you are willing to suffer the consequences (lose the offer). 
    
    When I started with DEC, I became pregnant within about a month. We had
    been "trying" (not whole-heartedly) for about a year and who knew when
    it would happen. At first I felt very bad about starting a new job and
    "leaving" soon. Luckily, my job was very flexible and I had an
    extremely understanding manager. It worked out great for my but I was
    very nervous to tell him I was pregnant for fear that he would think I
    joined DEC for benefits, etc. I never checked into the policy prior to
    knowing I was pregnant and was pleasantly surprised!! 
    
    Do what you feel is right for you!!! My personal opinion is that any
    manager who cannot understand that women get pregnant and have to be
    off work for a while and can come back and be as productive as anyone
    else, isn't a manager who cares about his/her people. They should be
    hiring for long-term skills and abilites and potential - not whether
    you are going to be out of work for 8 weeks.
    
    Asking if you are pregnant or plan on getting pregnant, is a
    ridiculious as asking if you have old parents who might die soon and
    you will need time off to grieve and settle a will, or a ridiculios as
    asking if you plan on having any serious accidents and will need to
    recover for 8 weeks....
    
    My thoughts...
    Andrea

    I interviewed when I was 6 months pregnant.  I wasn't showing a
    whole lot so I wore a loose jacket and held a notebook in front
    of my belly "just in case".  
    
    My plan, after speaking with my Personnel Manager, was to go through
    the interview and see how I thought it was going.  Then at the end
    tell him I am expecting.  I thought that was the best way to go, too.
    I don't think it's right not to tell them.  My Personnel Manager had
    said I will definitely see how the hiring manager feels by the look
    on their face.  
    
    The interview seemed to go really well.  At the end when I mentioned
    I was expecting, there was dead silence, his face turned to stone
    and he finally says, "Gee, that isn't going to help any".  WHAT A 
    JERK.  I didn't say anything, just felt really discouraged.  I
    continued on to interview with two women in his group who didn't
    appear to have a concern over my pregnancy - but I'm sure they
    were warned so they could have prepared themselves.  I was told
    I would hear either way about the job.  Needless to say, I never
    heard a word.  I'm happy, though, to have checked the jobs book
    and see their req still opened a year later!!!
    
    My second interview I didn't hide my pregnancy.  I walked in and
    the manager saw immediately that I was pregnant.  At one point she
    asked if I planned on coming back after the pregnancy and I told
    her yes, I wouldn't go through the trouble of interviewing only
    to leave the company 2 months later (by the way - I was going from
    Digital to Digital so there was no question of looking for benefits,
    etc).  Some people do plan on coming back to work, but after the
    baby is born, they change their minds.  For me, it was not a 
    consideration, we need the income.  So I can see how that would
    be a hassle for a manager, but I still find it completely unfair
    that they would pass someone by based on the fact they are pregnant.
    This woman hired me.  She said not only was I the best qualified, but
    she felt bad because she could just imagine trying to interview while
    pregnant.  She figured I would have a lot of trouble finding a job.
    So in this case it might have helped.  
    
    I've now been in this job 18 months and only 3 of those months have
    I been out.  I'm sure there are people out there who aren't pregnant
    who miss a heck of a lot more work than I do with sick days, or who
    make doctor's appointments for 1:00 or 1:30 and don't come back to
    the office.   I have done my best for my group and any manager who 
    dismisses a well qualified pregnant woman as a potential candidate
    deserves the worst group of employees Digital has to offer.
    
    Donna
    
    

    Assuming you are looking inside Digital, you are probably looking at a
    minimum of 2-year relationship with this new manager.  Everything you
    can do to start the relationship off right (mutual trust, respect,
    etc.) is a mark in your favor.  I would expect you to be up-front about 
    any situation that you currently know about, that might impact the 
    organization.  If you ARE pregnant and know about it, I would expect you
    to tell me (and let me know whether you want it to be public knowledge).
    By the same token, I would tell you everything I know that might impact 
    you if you took the job.
    
    Would this be a strike against you?  No way - the benefit of pregnancy
    is that pregnant women can PLAN their disability and give me a chance
    to prepare for it!  And from what I have seen within Digital, it would
    only be a strike against you with a handful of managers, and do you
    really want to work for them anyways?
    
    It has been well-publicized that Ken Olson wants employees to put
    family first, religion second, and Digital third.  So I would say that
    you should consider your family wants/needs first and go ahead and keep
    looking for a position.  Just be as up-front as possible with your
    hiring manager if you ARE pregnant and know it.
    
    
    Kristen (1st day on maternity leave today!)

>                      -< Be up-front if you already know >-

Sorry, couldn't resist pointing out the pun.

    My situation is slightly different.  I used to work for Digital and
    then left and joined a competitor.  I stayed with the competitor for 18
    months.  The last 4 of which I was pregnant and told them.  There
    response:- piled more work on to me, refused to give me my overdue
    promotion because I would be leaving (I didn't qualify for any
    benefits), cancelled my oustanding training courses (looked upon me as
    a waste of money and time).  As you can imagine I soon got fed up with
    their attitude and I approached an employment agency to find me
    temporary work until December.  Once realising that I had Digital
    skills they were more than keen to put me here, although Digital were
    apparently apprehensive, saying that I would need alot of time off for
    Doctors, ante-natal clinics etc., and also questionning whether i would
    have the staminar to keep going and do the job.  Well they were
    desparate and willing to give it a go and here I am.  Since being here
    (2 months) they are trying to persuade me to come back after my baby is
    born.  I am glad that I have proved their myth of pregnant women wrong,
    that we can keep going, that we are not always out of the office, not
    only for my sake but also for other women in my situation.  Needless to
    say I won't becoming back (not for a few years anyway) as I am going to
    be a full time mum.
    
    The hard part is changing peoples perception - afterall we are not ill,
    just pregnant.
    
    Barbara
    

    When I became pregnant the first time, five years ago, I was working at
    Digital as a Contract Secretary.  As my "condition" became obvious to
    my managers at the Contract house, we discussed it openly.  I made it
    clean that I would work up to the end, and be returning within a
    reasonable period.  Within a few weeks my current assignment ended, and
    suddenly it was "sorry DEC's awful slow these days", I knew better I
    had enough contacts within the company.  So off I went, obviously
    pregnant to another contract company, they employed me at DEC
    immediately!  I did work till the end, and since my daughter didn't
    live, I had no physical reason to stay home for 6 weeks, I returned to
    work, through the second agency within 2 to 3 weeks of the birth.
    I worked through the pregnancy of my son with that agency, never a
    problem at all keeping steadily employed, in fact before my son was a
    month old they were calling me begging me to return to work!
    
    Discrimination by the agency, yes I'd say so.  But I do know that DEC 
    for the most part is VERY understanding of family needs.
    
    DEC gets an "A" for effort!!
    Lyn
    

    I do not believe that pregnancy, or a possible pregnancy, should even
    be *mentioned* in a job interview.  The person with the best
    experience, skills, etc. should be the one to get a position.  At
    Digital for a WC4, you commit for 2 years -- if you go out on
    disability (including maternity disability), you just tack the rest of
    the 2 years on after you come back.  If you don't come back, oh well,
    the manager finds someone else.
    
    In our organization, the previous manager hired a contract worker to
    permanent status in her *eigth* month of pregnancy.  She gave 100% for
    the remaining time she was here, and went out for 3 months.  Upon
    returning she adjusted her schedule to a "special work week" (company
    policy) with fluctuating hours for the first 6 months.  Then, she made
    the decision to work 20 hours part-time which I (the new manager)
    accommodated.  Then, her husband got laid off and she needed benefits,
    so we cancelled the req for the other half of her 20 hours, and brought
    her up to R40 status.  Two weeks later she gave her notice and she left
    the company because her husband found a new job, and they were
    relocating.
    
    Do I or the previous manager regret the original hiring decision? 
    Well, circumstances didn't work out the way we would have wanted.  But,
    we did our jobs by hiring the most qualified individual at the time. 
    Life is full of *changes* that no one can predict.  As a previous noter
    pointed out, maternity is not the only disability a person can have, so
    why should hiring a pregant woman be a risk?
    
    I believe you're only opening the door for discrimination if you
    highlight the fact you're pregnant/trying.  I totally disagree with
    previous noters who say you should be as up front as possible with
    things like if you're planning on coming back, how long will you be
    out, etc.  You are more likely to make a commitment and then change
    your mind than anything else - because you have *no* idea how you'll
    feel once the new addition to the family comes along.
    
    To be real cynical, but probably realistic, Look out for #1 because no
    one else will!
    
    Regards,
    Cheryl