Conference moira::parenting_v3

    I don't have any ideas for help, but I can offer the dubious
    comfort of saying we've been going through this with Steven.  Only
    with him, it started at around three or four when he somehow got
    the idea that firemen START fires in houses.  He calmed down some
    after we finally figured out that was why he was worried and
    finally convinced him they were for putting out fires.  
    
    After that, every time there was a fire in town, with the pictures
    in the paper, we had to calm him down for several nights
    afterward.  We found that  talking about what caused the fire and
    assuring him we've controlled those things as much as we can
    helped.  As in, "That fire started because the man was smoking in
    bed, but none of us smokes, so we can't start a fire that way."
    
    Now he's six and we still have occasional bouts of fire panic.  I
    notice that it usually happens when he's tense and upset about
    something else.  If he gets in a fight with his friends, for
    instance, I can guarantee that night he'll be asking if there's
    going to be a thunderstorm that might start a fire.
    
    --bonnie	

    What about telling her what you would do if a fire ever did happen?
    You can't tell her that a fire will never happen to you but you can
    discuss how a fire would be handled if it did.  That way she may
    feel she has some sort of control over the situation.  Actually go 
    through family fire drills.  I also like what Bonnie said about
    telling her how you can keep you home safe and help prevent fires.
    
    Susan

    Neil reminds me that another thing that helped Steven was to talk
    about what we'd do if our house did burn down -- that we'd live
    somewhere else for a while and rebuild the house, and yes it would
    be sad to lose all our toys and things but that bad things
    sometimes happened.
    
    --bonnie

I think what works is one of those things that works for many childhood 
phases -- time.

I think it was about the same age when we had an incident with Lara.  She had 
just leaned some fire safety in kindergarten.  On Christmas morning, my 
brother-in-law started a fire in the fireplace.  Lara went absolutely bonkers. 
It took maybe fifteen minutes in her room before she was calm enough to resume 
Christmas activities.  

Interestingly enough, we've had fires in the fireplace on other Christmas 
mornings since, and I've cooked at campfire, but we've had no problems since.

I think what happens is that children don't often, children don't ever think 
of themselves as being capable of "catching on fire", so when they get exposed 
to some fire safety, then they contemplate the horrible possibility, and it's 
frightening.

re: .1 & .3 from INFRNO::RANDALL

Bonnie, did you establish that node name just to respond to this note?

Clay

I don't know if you've already covered what .2 suggested
with your daughter, but I think that it might help
alleviate the fear associated with a fire.  If you have
a plan of action and know what you are going to do if
a fire occurs, then it may take away some of the 
anxiety associated with it.  Sesame Street did a whole
episode on a fire that occurred in Miles' apartment
and how Miles reacted when he heard the smoke alarm
go off.  My three year old watched and still remembers
how to react if you hear the smoke alarm.  She also 
participates in fire drills at her daycare center, but
hasn't really had much anxiety over fires (although,
maybe 5 or so is the magic age for this).  I
think knowing what to expect and how to react in all
situations (whether it be going to the hospital or 
having a fire) is more than half the battle in alleviating
a child's (or adult's) fear of a situation.

Valerie

I don't know how to solve the fears, but I can tell you that they don't ALWAYS
go away.  I got scared to death in my early years (under 6) by a fireman who
came to our school and told us that xx out of every 100 people will be involved
in a fire at SOMETIME in their life (xx was a high number but I don't know
what).  I was scared to death of fires through my highschool days, and would
often wake up in the night thinking there was a fire.  If my parents left ANY
lights on at all, I would wake up and think the light was from a fire.  I also
had many recurring dreams about being in fires and escaping, etc....

Kristen

    re: .4
    
    No, Clay, that was entirely accidental . . . the node that does
    our cluster aliasing was down today.  I wish I could take credit
    for it, though.  Couldn't be better.
    
    --bonnie

    Our daughter (age 5 1/2) also has fire fears.  It started about 
    two years ago when a fireman visited her preschool. 

    I can always tell when the fire department makes a visit because
    Amber starts getting fire sensitive again.  

    As a child/young adult, I too had terrible fears about house fires.
    Whenever a house nearby would was involved in a fire all the kids
    would gather around and watch. I would get as far away as possible,
    I *hated* the smell associated with the burnt remains.  I can 
    smell 'it' as I type...it still gives me the creeps.

    In the "Time Out" note some parents mentioned they close their
    bedroom doors at night "in case of fire".  While I feel this is
    good (and a safe) practice, the fear of fire with me began the day
    my parents told me I had to keep my bedroom door closed at night
    "...in case of fire..."  I would lay awake every night wondering
    if this would be *the* night for a fire.

    When Amber starts fretting about fire I do what Bonnie Randall does,
    I tell her how the fire probably started, whether or not it or
    how, it could have been prevented.  Amber is a very deep sleeper and her
    biggest fear is sleeping through the smoke alarm.  I assured her
    that it would wake everyone else and she would be taken safely from
    the house.  I also tell her that even though it is possible that a
    fire could start in someones home, that mom and dad and all of our
    friends have never had such an experience. It is indeed a rare
    occurrence if proper precautions are taken.

    Jodi-

    Thanks for the input.  I'll talk to Sally tonight and maybe we'll
    practice leaving the house.  I never know which information is going to
    make it better and which is going to make it worse!  It's all harder
    because we're ALL SO TIRED by now! 
    
    I feel sad watching her drag her "special doll" around (it usually
    stays on her bed) so that she can grab her in a hurry if there's a fire. 
    Like Jody said: "watch what you say.." is right!  A few days ago she
    told me that if there was a fire she'd go back and get her doll and I
    told her that we'd go right out - not back for anything - so now we have
    her doll with her at all times!
    
    I believe that there's something good that can come from [almost] 
    anything.  Looks like we'll be doing a complete fire safety
    walkthrough of our house with Sally, and will probably end up with a
    safer home!  And isn't that what Fire Prevention Week is all about?
    
    Thanks again - next week I'll let you know how it went.
    
    Jane
                      

    
    We have been having trouble with our smoke detectors setting off false
    alarms lately, then replacing them and having one be overly sensitive
    (went off some 30' and around the corner away from a pot of boiling
    pasta).   We have all gotten rather jumpy but it has given us the
    opportunity to discuss with the kids just what to do when....
    
    Well, when the noodles set it off the other evening, Bob dashed into
    the hall to yank it (trailing a string of rather colorful expletives),
    then he went back to the kitchen to explain what happened to our Swiss
    au pair's mother who is visiting with us just what happend and after a
    minute realized that the kids weren't watching TV any more.  He looked
    around and noticed the front door was open and the two of them were
    standing in the wet grass in the drizzle in their stocking feet hugging
    their bears and looking stricken!
    
    Poor kids!  We had to have another false alarm discussion but
    emphasizing that they had done the right thing anyway.  
    
    We also found out that there was a fire drill at school the other day
    that sent Maggie into tears - she had brought her favorite bear in her
    backpack that day and he was inside.  For her, every alarm signals a
    fire.
    
    Norma
    

    I vividly remember the impact of a kindergarten "fire safety" movie
    which featured a little girl about my age being trapped in an upstairs
    bedroom while her house was burning.  She did all the right things to
    take care of herself, and the firemen eventually rescued her, but the
    main thing that stuck with me was that she had been trapped.  I had
    nightmares for weeks.
    
    It was no help at all to hear that this would not happen to us -- after
    all, the whole point of the movie was that it COULD happen and one
    should be prepared for it.
    
    It helped immensely to hold a couple of family fire drills with
    different routes out of the house.  Two of the three were ways that I
    could get out on my own; the third involved scooting to the edge of
    the roof and either jumping to the porch or "Daddy will be here to
    lift you down."
    
    Another $.02
    Beth

This won't help, but I thought a humorous digression might be fun.

My neice went throught a fire prevention type thing where they showed
the kids how to call the fire department.  One evening my sister-in-law
noticed that the phone was a little "off the hook" so she just hung it
up.  Pretty soon my brother got a call from the police station requesting
his presence.  It turned out that this was a rather cheap phone and my
neice had dialed up the fire department, they answered, she hung up, but
not quite all the way, and the redial feature kicked in!

Liz

    My kids haven't had this phobia (at least yet), but I have a guess
    about one factor at work.  Several of the examples involved kids about
    5 to 6.  This is a stage when almost all kids are changing their
    school arrangements, and some are really moving much further or longer
    from home and hearth than they are used to.  It is a natural point at
    which to develop hypersensitized awareness of one or more dangerous
    aspects of the "big bad world," and fire could well take the focus of
    this fear.  It could be easily triggered by a highly dramatic fire
    safety presentation, if the kid hadn't been exposed to this much at
    earlier ages.  I've tried to introduce safety issues in incremental
    doses, for example with annual visits to the Fire Department Open House
    day since age 2.  Both boys have also experienced fairly regular fire
    drills and false alarms right through pre-school.
    
    		- Bruce

    	Both of my boys have had the fire safety drills in school. One had
    it in his pre-school class and the other had it in first grade class. 
    Both classes went to fire stations (at different days) and both came
    home with the same fire safety type of information. Their biggest thing
    was telling us what to do if we catch fire. They would say "Daddy you
    stop (holding out their hands as if to stop you), drop, and roll."

    	We did not have any fears of fire at all. The only thing we have to
    deal with is false smoke alarm signal. This scares the wits out of our
    2 year old daughter. 

    	I think one of the reasons they are not afraid of fire is that I
    would let them help me build fires in fire places. Or if we were having
    an outdoor barbecue, they would help me gather would and stuff. They
    learned that there is good fire and bad fire. They also learned what to
    do if they see a fire.
    
    	One of the things that made an impression on them was that I took a
    lighter (or a match I forget which) and told them that it was a fire, a
    very small one but a fire none the less. Another thing that might of
    helped was when we built a big fire to burn old dead trees and brush.
    It took a while to get a big roaring fire, but there was a lot of smoke
    before you could see flames. My younger boy asked what the stuff coming
    from the pile was and I told him it was smoke. I also told him that
    smoke alarm "looks/sniffs" for that in our house. Seeing the time it
    took to go from the smoke stage to the blazing fire stage was
    comforting to them. 
    
    							-Keith
    

    Well, it all worked!  For now, of course.  I used just about every
    suggestion given here!  We also bought "How to Get Rid of Bad Dreams"
    at the book fair at school, which lightened up the topic.  Sally has
    slept through the night since Thursday and we all feel much better!
    
    I asked Sally what worked (so I'd know when Kathleen was five) and she
    said talking about everything made her feel much better.  We talked
    about how we would get out in a fire, how we would replace our stuff,
    etc.  We also bought a new smoke/fire detector to replace the one that
    was beeping randomly on new batteries (I figured it was just worn out
    and it was worth $10 to be sure and to keep from having those traumatic
    false alarms described a few replies back!)
    
    Also, there was something about lighting birthday candles that was
    scaring her.  I guess that's the only time she sees fire in the house
    (electric stove, no smokers, etc.) so we talked about that.
    
    Thanks again for coming through for us, as usual.
    
    Jane

    re: .13 and .14
    
    All those things about early exposure don't necessarily matter. 
    I'm sure they help some children, but not all of them.   Steven
    had been to the fire station and gone through a number of fire
    safety presentations before the one that seemed to upset him.  He
    loved to help me start the fire in the fireplace and grill
    outdoors.  When he was 4, it was neat.  When he was 5, suddenly it
    was a terrifyingly real possibility.  
    
    I suspect it's more related to the idea that Bruce brought up
    about the scary changes in their lives than the fear of fire per
    se.  It's a good focal point for their realization that bad things
    sometimes DO happen despite our best efforts.  And it seems that
    the lesson they learned is that if bad things happen, there are
    ways to cope and recover.
    
    --bonnie

    I'd like to add my .02 worth here, but I'm not sure from which vantage
    point, mother, wife of a firefighter, EMT?  Anyway as I read this I
    realize how much fire related things are second nature to us.  AJ is
    not terrified of firefighters in full gear (geez those Scott Packs are
    scarey looking) he even is thrilled to pull on dad's fire boots and
    pants once in a while.  But enough of us, may I suggest you stop by
    your local firestation (preferable with child) and pick up ALL the
    literature they have to offer, particularly literature on "EDITH" (Exit
    Drills In The Home), also suggested is to make a fire exit plan and
    *practice* it!  They also suggest if you have second floor bedrooms to
    get the fold up ladders and practice using them too.  I have recently
    seen smoke detectors geared to blend into kid's rooms, acutual smoke
    detectors with a juvenile plaque over it.  About 24.95, perhaps if she
    had her "own" smoke detector in her room she might calm some fears.
    
    AJ went through fire prevention week last week and at 3.5 they were
    told how to dial 911 or '0' for help in an emergency.  and like a
    similar note he decided to practice it by dialing 0 last Saturday!
    He came racing down the stairs, grabbed his dad's hand and dragged him
    to the phone saying "there's someone on the phone, talk to him daddy"
    on the other end was a confused operator wanting to know if someone
    wanted the operator, we said no apologized for bothering them and hung
    up and explained to AJ NOT to use the phone unless it was a REAL
    emergency!  
    
    Good luck, I can tell you how to order the detectors via mail if you're
    interested.
    
    Lyn