Conference moira::parenting_v3

    I can offer my sister inlaw's experience to this one, she was in much
    the same situation.  She moved her daughter out of the crib at about 17
    or 18 months with siderails.  She too needed a crib for her expected
    newborn (they would be 20 months apart).  What seems to work from a
    psycological standpoint is to take your older one out of the crib and
    into the "big girl bed" and kind of put away the crib for a month or
    two, so she won't think she's being kicked out of her crib for the new
    baby.  My sister inlaw actually kept the newborn in a cradle for a
    couple months to ease into someone else using "her" crib, then matter
    of factly put the crib in the newborn's room when the older one was out
    of sight (asleep I think).  I would think that if she's generally
    cooperative and disciplines well you shouldn't have a problem with
    keeping her in a big bed.  Don't forget to move all her favorite toys,
    blankets and pillow over too, familiarity seem to be a big factor.
    
    Like I said, I can't speak personally since I haven't been able to
    provide AJ with a sibling, PLUS he never made an attempt to get out of
    the crib but that's another story.
    
    Good Luck!
    Lyn

    The strategy outlined in .1 sounds entirely reasonable.
    
    Additional comments - Whether or not your child gets out of the bed at
    night or wakes up earlier depends entirely on him.  My daughter moved to
    a bed at 19 months.  There was no second on the way (at that time);
    Elizabeth just never much cared for the crib.  Our sleep disruptions
    ended when she moved to a bed.  When she was ready to get out in the AM
    she would always call, so I had no problem with wandering (although I
    did keep the stairs blocked with a gate).  
    
    When #2 did come along, Elizabeth had been in her own bed for over a
    year.  There were no territorial crib issues to worry about.
    
    

    
    I agree with .1 - move the child before the new baby arrives or at
    least have there be a waiting period between the migration from the
    crib to the "big bed" and the placement of the new baby in the crib.
    My experience has been varied (having done this twice).
    
    The first time, we moved Jake several months before Tommy was born 
    (Jake was 26 months). We made it a big deal having a "new big-boy bed" 
    and I included him in the selection of new sheets - dinosaurs.  There 
    wasn't any problem.
    
    The second time, just recently, we moved Tommy from the crib into a
    big bed (at 22 months).  The third baby (Matt) is already here and
    currently sleeping in a smaller cradle waiting to see if the move is
    successful.   Tommy likes the bed now, but it didn't happen
    right away.  In the beginning he was so excited to be "free" that
    he couldn't settle down at bedtime.  He would just start running
    around the room like a mad-man.  He'd lie down for a second and
    then jump up and go running.  He would call out for the crib, probably
    because he felt safer in the "cage" than out in the open air with too
    many choices!  It took about a week of getting into a routine of sitting 
    on the bed and reading together and then lying down for him to get the 
    gist of what the new bedtime routine would be like.  Now he's fine.  
    However, he does seem to get up earlier and show up at our bedside
    before I'm quite ready to greet the day...
    
    
    Good luck,
    
    Dorothy

    This made me think.  I, too, acted on the "promote firstborn early so
    as to avoid crib-transfer jealousy syndrome" theory.  And we had no
    crib-transfer jealousy.  But has any parent NOT been given and followed
    this advice?  In retrospect, I think Aaron was so pleased to be
    promoted, he wouldn't have been jealous with an interval of 5 seconds. 
    Has anyone actually encountered the jealousy problem?
    
    In practice, neither kid considered his bed-promotion anything but what
    the term implies, and there was basically nothing to it.  About age
    3.5, in their cases, but I think it would have been the same
    considerably earlier.
    
    		- Bruce

Do a search for old topics on this in both this and V2; there are about 4
or 5 good discussions on it.  (As is happens, I was looking at this last
week!  I think the dir/title= words I used were bed and crib.)

Marty

    RE: .4 - I only know of 1 case where there was a crib/jealousy problem
    with a friend of mine.  Her girls are 2 yrs/2 mos. apart.  She didn't
    make the transition to the "big girl bed" for her oldest until after #2
    arrived.  (There were a variety of extenuating circumstances, including
    health problems during the second pregnancy.)
    
    Anyway...the result was a *very* territorial 2 year old still fixated
    on the crib.  The younger child started out in a bassinette and (at
    ten months) is still in a porta-crib.  (READ: the oldest is still in
    the crib at 3.)
    
    The punch line is that the mom featured in this anecdote is a clinical
    psychologist.  
    
    

    I'm in the process of making this decision also.  I'm curious as
    to the replies but here's what I *think?* I'm going to do;
    
    - Matthew will be almost 21 months when baby #2 arrives.  We're
      currently in the process of fixing up his new room (which he
      loves because it's Sesame Street).  My plan is to move Matt AND
      his crib into his new room about 6 weeks before the baby is due.  
      Since he sleeps great right now and hasn't attempted climbing out 
      of the crib, why run the risk of introducing new problems?  
      (Baby #2 will cause enough changes anyway).  I already have
      a 'big boy bed' for Matthew that I'm going to leave in his new
      room along with the crib. 
    
    - I'm borrowing another crib from my brother for the new baby and
      will put it in Matthew's old room shortly after we move him
      into his new room.  
    
    - For what it's worth, I decided on the above strategy even before
      I 'found' the second crib.  I was going to use a portacrib for
      the new baby.

    - Hopefully the transistion will happen when it looks like Matthew
      is ready rather than when it's convenient for us.
    
    Carol

    My first child was out of a crib very early (since he climbed over the 
    railings, we "promoted" him to a mattress on the floor to keep him from
    breaking his head.)
    
    When taking the second child out of the cradle and bassinet, we
    discussed with our older child (then 23 months) what to do about a
    bigger bed - he suggested himself that we use his old crib for the
    baby.  Not only was he not jealous, but he was the master of the
    situation.   
    
    -m

    I think it does depend upon the personality of the child. My son slept
    in a bed while we were on  vacation for 8 weeks. He was 16-17 months
    old then. When we came home, there was no way he was going to stay in
    his crib. We tried everything (knowing we were moving in 3 months and
    hoping to stretch him until then). So the mattress went on the floor
    and all was wonderful. He slept better. I don't think my son thought of
    his crib as a "beloved possession" (now the blanket is a different
    story). He could have cared less about it.
    
    As for .7 - I guess I'm just curious as to why you didn't see changing
    your son's room as the perfect opportunity to make a complete
    transition. If you are worried that he will have trouble giving up his
    crib later, especially if you are going to let the second child use it,
    why not get him some Seasame Street sheets to encourage him to want the
    bed over the crib? Only you can tell from your child's personality
    whether there might be problems in the future. 
    
    Everyone I know of found it very easy to make the crib-to-bed
    transition when the child changed rooms as well. Maybe the kids feel
    like the crib is part of the old room and the bed is part of the new
    room??
    
    Andrea

    This topic is really appropos for me, as I've been thinking about this
    a lot lately.Ryan is now 27 months and very content in his crib.
    Bruce's comment about both boys moving to beds at 3.5 was heartening
    for me. I sometimes feel like I "should" be doing things, but..... 
    Ryan seems to view his crib as a safe haven - he makes no bones about
    calling to get up, but doesn't and hasn't climbed out yet.
    
    Also, his crib adjusts to a beginner bed, by taking off one side.
    

Evan is now 2 1/2, and we have been gradually getting the "toddler room"
ready for him to move in.  A few days ago I think he asked something
about the cats sleeping with him, and I mentioned that when he was ready to
sleep in the "big bed" that he could have the cats sleep with him all night if
he wanted (the cats are not allowed in the crib, and normally are locked
in the garage at night).  He *jumped* at the chance.  He fell asleep with
Nefertiti on his lap and woke up again 15-20 minutes later when she
wasn't there any longer.  He got up several times that evening, trying
to get cats to come to him.  :-)

Most evenings and nap times he has chosen to sleep in the "big boy" bed now.
However, in the evenings he keeps getting up.  It is not that he is trying
to get away with anything.  He really is trying, but he finds it hard to
sleep in there.  Sometimes the cats make too much noise; sometimes the noise
from downstairs is too loud (it really does go right into his room); sometimes
it is too quiet.  :-}  If he continuously has a problem, we suggest he sleep
in his crib again, and he sometimes will.  I think that for him it just takes
some adjustment, and we will be finishing his room this week, so it will
have toys in it and wall decorations and will not seem so empty or foreign.
We're hoping that will help.

I think that as long as you don't need the crib for another child, and as 
long as the child is happy and safe in the crib, that you should let them 
stay there for as long as they like.  When Evan is in the crib, I don't have
to worry about putting up a gate to keep him from wandering the house, and
I don't have to worry about him rolling off and falling (which he did, even
though his bed is on the floor).  However, since he *wants* to move into the
other bed, I'm not going to stop him either.

         Carol

    re: .10
    
    Don't rush - a child who is happy is what you want.   He will probably
    request a "big boy bed" himself someday.   Think about it - how many
    teenagers do you know who sleep in a crib?   It's sort of like potty
    training, except not so traumatic.  Let the child decide when he's
    ready, unless there is some *good* reason to promote the change early.
    Don't let society decide what kind of bed your child sleeps in.
    
    -m

The only "rule" I have heard was from my pedi - the first time they get out of
the crib, it's time to move to a bed.

I moved Kati at 15 months, somewhat because #2 was on the way (and I had also
heard about putting away HER crib for a while, so it's no longer HERS when
the baby arrives), and also because she had moved to a waterbed (on the floor)
at daycare at about 9 months - just refused to sleep in the cribs there anymore.
We had a waterbed on the floor and she did great.  It took about 3 nights for
her to not be scared of it, and she never got out in the night.

HOWEVER, we recently moved to a new house and she got a new bedroom suite, which
has a double bed (NOT on the floor).  At first she fell out of it so we got
rails - she has even managed to push them out about a foot and fall between the
bed and rail on a few occasions, so we keep pillows on the floor.  But it didn't
take long for her to figure out that she can get out of bed and wander the
house, and she often gets up and comes to visit in the wee hours of the night.

I can't say I regret moving her from her crib, but I sure would like it if she
didn't know she could get out of bed!  

Kristen

    We've done this twice now. When we were expecting #2, we tried to move
    Josh to a big-boy-bed at about 20 mos. (Carrie was born when he was 22
    mos.). It was a major disaster! He *hated* it, begged for his crib,
    etc. Since he'd never had any sleep problems, we decided this was
    stupid...why cause problems where none existed???? So we left him in
    it, and bought a second hand one *cheap* at a garage sale (after
    thoroughly inspecting it for safety). And that is what Carrie slept in.
    When Josh was about 2 1/4, we move to Mass. from NY, and were in
    temporary housing for an eternity. We (at DEC's expense) rented a crib
    for him, as Carrie needed the porta-crib, and he was way too big for it
    anyway. So he was in a room with a bed and a crib. At approx. 2.5 yrs.,
    he just announced one night that he wanted to sleep in the big boy bed.
    And that was it! He did, and never went back to the crib. We did leave
    the crib up in his room for a week or two, just in case, but he never
    needed it. When Daniel, #3, was coming along, we never even tried
    moving Carrie to a big bed. She was also 22 mos. when he was born. She
    moved at 2.5 of her own free will, also, and never had a problem. And
    with her, we immediately took her crib and exchanged it for the
    second-hand one that Dan was using (the mattress on Carries' dropped
    lower, so it was harder to climb out of). There was absolutely no
    problem with jealousy. We told her she was a big girl to decide on a
    big bed, and how now it was nice that she could share her crib with
    Daniel. It helped that she was madly in love with Daniel :-). We are
    now expecting #4, and Daniel will be 26 mos. old when this one is born,
    so who knows where Daniel will be sleeping by then?!? But I firmly
    believe that it is best to wait till they are ready, unless there is a
    *very* compelling reason not to (like they keep climbing out and are
    gonna crack their head open!). Buy the extra crib, and let your child
    progress at his/her own pace.
    --dave--

    Though this topic has been discussed quite a few times, I'll add my two
    cents again.  I am a firm believer in waiting to transfer a child to a
    bed.  My twins were 18 months old when #3 was born, and I never even
    gave it a thought to move them into beds.  They all slept in the sa me
    room, in three cribs.  Luckily, I got a crib from within my family, so
    it wasn't a question of having to buy another one.  
    
    Keeping them in cribs was as much for my piece of mind, as for their
    comfort.  Unless the child is capable of climbing out of the crib, I am
    a firm believer in leaving them in it till at least 24 months, or even
    2 1/2 years.  If you take them to a bed too early, they will climb out,
    they will wander the house, to some extent.  There is no way you can
    prevent it, unless you want to start gating your house.  You may find
    you get little privacy in your own room, as the little one finds out he
    can come and go at will now that he's in a bed. :*}
    
    I kept them in cribs because I didn't have to worry they'd be roaming
    the halls at night, possible falling down the stairs, who knows what. 
    By the age of 2 1/2, at least you can somewhat reason with them,  they
    know about some of the dangers in the house, and they can find your
    room easily in the dark.  They are just that much older, and that much
    more self-reliant, than 18 months or so.
    
    My youngest boy is 13 months now, and I plan on keeping him in his crib
    until about 2 1/2.  There's plenty of time for him to graduate to a
    bed.  But one of the things I refused to be was feel rushed to mve my
    children out of cribs.  It made ME feel safe, knowing that when they
    were tucked safely in their cribs, that is where they would remain! 
    And don't be fooled!  Just because they stay in bed the first few
    times, they will eventually discover their new found freedom! :*}  You
    will awaken one day at 2am and find a toddler standing by your bed,
    smiling!!
    

    re: .9 - I don't want to move Matthew out of his crib even though
    he is going into his new room.  Why move him into a bed if there
    isn't a 'need'?  He hasn't even attempted to crib out of the crib
    and I know he's safe in there.  As I mentioned, he sleeps just fine
    in there.
    
    He will be 21 months when the baby is born.  Maybe after a few months 
    of adjusting to the new baby, I'll think about moving him.  But
    in the interim, why run the risk of introducing a problem?? 

    Good Morning,
    
    I was wondering how old your child was when you moved him/her from crib
    to regular bed?  Did you have any problems when doing this.
    
    Joanne
    

    	We moved Shayne to his bed on his 2nd birthday (OCT).  We pushed
    one side of the bed up against the wall and put up a bed rail, there
    were a couple of bare spots where the rail did not reach.  We put 
    pillows in those areas, but some how he knocked them down and managed 
    to fall out of bed.  My girlfriend suggested that we roll up a blanket
    or put pillows under the mattress on that side.  She did this with her
    three boys and it prevented them from rolling over that far, we are now
    doing this and he hasn't fallen out since. 
    	
    FWIW

My daughter at almost 20 months is showing signs of being ready to move to
a "Big Girl Bed".

The question I have for you parents that have already made the transition is
what kind of bed to look for?  What worked/did not work for you?

I have been thinking of a bunk bed, a trundle type bed or a double bed (all 
beds that she can grow with).  Any pros or cons on these different types?

Thanks,
Barbara

    
    There is another note on this same subject that may provide additional
    information.  Please see note 837.
    
    Carol

    RE: .17
    
    I set up the bed in the same rooms as the crib when my son was 22
    months old.  At that point every time one of us put him to bed for a
    nap or for the night we would ask him if he wanted to sleep in the
    "big boys bed".  well it took 2 months but one naptime he said yes and
    slept in it ever since.
    
    Kathy
    

    re .19 I vote for the trundle bed, and let her sleep in the BOTTOM part
    of the bed until you're comfortable she won't fall out.
    
    We moved Chris when he was about 2 1/2 to make room for his brother in
    the crib.  We moved Jason at about the same age because he used to
    drive us crazy kicking the crib until we let him "free".  In a bed at
    least he could get out.  Of course the second day with his bed he
    wanted his crib back.  Sigh.  
    
    Make their first time in the bed a nap, as opposed to a night - it
    seems to help the transition a bit. (for us anyway!).
    
    Patty

    I added to this discussion in the old file, or a previous note, I
    think, so excuse the repetition.
    
    We moved Ryan to a bed at 2 yrs. 7 months, to give him time to adjust
    before the birth of the baby, expected when Ryan was 3.  Since the kids
    would be in the same room for a while, we opted for a little bed, which
    fits a crib mattress rather than a twin size.  From the first night,
    Ryan loved his big boy bed, as he called it....  didn't fall out at all
    the first night - the second he did a few times. We simply put a quilt
    down on the floor next to the bed.
    
    One advantage to the smaller bed is that it's close to the floor and
    fall wasn't too far :-)