Conference moira::parenting_v3

    	I'm really surprised that the Doctor hasn't had you try
    	other formula's.  Has she been throwing up since she's been on the
    	Enfamil?  When my son first came home from the hospital I
    	was breastfeeding and because of problems I put him on
    	the Enfamil.  It was awful, all he did was throw it up for
    	about a week straight.  The Doctor put him on ProSobee, and
    	since he's been fine.  He needs the soybase because he's allergic
    	to the regular formula.
    
    	Did your Doctor do tests to discover that her problem is Reflux?
    
    	Ellen

    re: .1
    
    There is a big difference between throwing-up and spitting-up.
    Spit-up is small volume, no projection really and is characeristic
    of reflux.   Also, I suspect that if a baby was intolerant of the
    formula, they wouldn't have a good weight gain (21 lbs at 7 months
    is pretty healthy!)
    
    cj/

    re: .0
    
    Our son also had reflux.   He stopped spitting up around 10-11 months.
    His pedi had told me that it often takes a year for the valve to
    close up (or whatever it does).
    
    I also noticed that it got worse around 6-7 months.  I attributed this
    to the fact that he was sitting up more which in turn put more 
    pressure on his belly.  Don't know if that is really why though.
    
    Hang in there for a few more months,
    Carol

Absolutely normal ...

Our last was terrible with spitting up ... my wife would take her to the
Dr who'd say nothing to worry about ... and I'd say I didn't believe it.
Still, she gained weight no problem.  At one point, I can't remember what
age, she did get worse, and I was worried crazy, then it subsided, quite
quickly because I cannot remember it actually stopping!  It was definitely
over by about a year.

It reached a point of a couple tablespoons of curdle ... and not vomited
just a sort of burped up ... we called it glurping up!

So, stop worrying (I know ... easy for me to say ...) but we've been there.

Stuart

I have no personal experience with this, but I know of a friend whose daughter
had a pretty severe case of it.  (I didn't know the term, however)

My friend's daughter threw up constantly and could not handle any formula.
She was told to not go back to work until her daughter was a year old, and
to nurse every 1-2 hours (except at night), then her daughter continued to
vomit and she extended her leave - finally ended up leaving DEC to stay home
full time, although her daughter is now fully recovered.

Your case sounds pretty mild compared to this one.   But I do hope all turns
out well....

Kristen

	I think that the key here, is - is she gaining weight?  If so, then 
don't sweat it.  (Sort of like the orchid phase they go through later.  You 
know the one, when they live on air for weeks at a time. More aggravating to the
parents than anything else.)

	To help you get it into perspective, my daughter at her *15* month 
checkup weighed less than half a pund more than your daughter.  And the doctor 
was happy with her weight.  So your daughter is obviously getting plenty of 
nourishment.

	Hang in there!

Tracey

    Ryan had this from birth til about 7-8 months, though our family doctor
    never officially said it was reflux. He would spit up each and every
    feeding, very large quantities. I was very concerned, but he continued
    to grow and thrive. Finally at 6 months we started giving him small
    meals every 2 hours during the day of mostly solids - yogurt and fruit,
    cereal at the next one, etc.  The idea was to keep something in his
    stomach but not at capacity, since he seemed to be chowing down to hold
    him til the next meal.
    
    The whole thing seemed to abate as he started standing and then walking
    (he stood at 7 months and walked at 10).  My husband and I still joke
    about it - how we never thought we'd be able to wear good clothes
    again, but it DID go away.
    
    Best of luck,
    

    Kat had this too.  In our case it's congenital -- my grandmother,
    my father, and I all have mild reflux that causes heartburn and
    sometimes burping of stomach acid if we lie down with a full
    stomach.
    
    Kat behaved as though solid food helped; from the time she could
    eat cereal she much preferred it to formula, and was eating mostly
    solids by the time she 8 months old.  Fortunately cottage cheese
    was her favorite food, so getting milk into her wasn't a problem!
    
    Small meals help, as Lynn mentioned.  
    
    I found that having Kat play quietly for about 15 min. after a
    meal, rather than getting up to crawl/run around, helped reduce
    the frequency and amount.  
    
    As the others mentioned, it got worse when she started sitting up
    and crawling -- I think the motion encourages food to slosh around
    in their stomachs -- and pretty much stopped by the time she was
    eating solids and standing, maybe 9 months old.  Though she will
    still occasionally throw up when she has too much to eat, and she
    will get sick if she exercizes hard after eating. 
    
    It's a messy, annoying problem -- I got to where I carried a
    change of clothes for me as well as for her, and my car stank
    perpetually -- but as you've noticed yourself it doesn't really
    affect their development or their personality.
    
    I kind of doubt that reflux was the only problem Kristen's
    friend's baby had.  Reflux is just a muscular weakness; it doesn't
    have anything to do with food allergies or anything like that.  Of
    course a baby with reflux might also have other problems that did
    require frequent nursing or changing formulas, but the reflux by
    itself is a nuisance, not a real problem.  
    
    --bonnie

    This may have been what our second son Peter had. On the day we adopted him
    at 3 months he threw up all over the social worker. For the next 6
    months or so he'd spit up all the time. Once while riding on Don's
    shoulders he spat up on his father's head...Don said he didn't notice
    until it ran down into his eyes! (bleh!)
    
    Anyway he did out grow throwing up by the time we went to court with
    him. About a month later we were back at the agency making arrangements
    to adopt his sister. I offered to let the social worker hold him and
    said that he'd stopped throwing up. She picked him up and he threw
    up all over him again!
    
    Bonnie

    This is from a mother who's been there!  The first key thing to do is
    VERIFY an verify again that it's REALLY reflux.  What seems be
    described here doesn't sound like reflux, rather normal baby spitting
    up.  Contrary to what it seems to be, AJ NEVER was a spitty baby, the
    only true problem we noticed was that he always vomited eggs.  We
    learned early on to use soy based formula, enfamil made him vomit too.
    
    Reflux can only be truly identified through a 24 hour monitor test,
    wheich a probe is  inserted into the esophogas and stomach acid either
    hits the probe (a positive test) or it doesn't (negative test) a
    positive test is calculated by the percent of time during the 24 hour
    period that stomach acid hits the probe, it is then categorized as
    first (minor) second (medium) or third (severe) reflux.
    
    Aj's first test was at 17 months, it was classed as severe (80%) and we
    were advised to allow further testing including endoscopy, which is
    miserable at best.  We decided to wait, since he had his twelth
    surgery.  A year later, with a different doctor from Boston Children's
    hospital we retested (with endoscpoy under sedation) and found only a
    minimal (5 minutes in 24 hours) reflux.  The gross difference in the
    two tests were simple, the first time he wasn't upright and walking as
    much.  The second doctor is doing research and what we've learned so
    far is that reflux can coordinate with both ear infections and causing
    asthma attacks.  He was on a medication (Tagamet) for a few months and
    is now off it and doing  fine.
    
    Lyn
    (will be glad to chat off-line to anyone interested 291-0177)
     

    My daughter (now 16 months) also spat up a lot especially on a full
    tummy. She of course was not diagnosed with REFLUX. But her "gag"
    reflex was very sensitive. We had to make sure that she was sitting in
    an infant seat for about 30 minutes after a feeding when she as an
    infant. Until a couple of months ago, she would "throw up" (projectile)
    if she cried a lot - she threw up everyday when she started daycare.
    The pedi said that it would get better as she got older and in fact now
    she does not do that anymore. So age is a cure for such things.
    
    Shaila

    Invest in bibs, bibs, and more bibs!  My daughter must have worn a bib
    24 hours a day her first six months or so.  While her pediatrician
    never termed it reflux, she did spit up a lot more than any other baby
    I'd known.  And, she did outgrow it.
    

    What seems to be being overlooked or confused to me is that spitting up
    is NOT reflux!  From what I've seen a good percentage of babies spit up
    just because they're babies.  AJ had a severe reflux and virtually
    NEVER spit up.  It really does take a good pedi GI specialist and
    testing to prove reflux. 
    
    Bottom line, DON'T attach an unnecessary label to normal baby spitting
    up, save your worry for something else.
    
    Lyn
    

    Lyn, you're perfectly right about SEVERE reflux, and about
    spitting up.  Spitting up is what happens when some milk comes up
    when a baby burps.  
    
    However, MILD reflux can and does cause babies to vomit -- not
    projectile vomiting, not just a spoonful as in spitting up, but
    real tossing of cookies, to borrow a phrase, more than a bib will
    hold.  All over the front seat of a car, or a crib, or a sofa.  
    
    When the condition and the symptoms are mild enough that the child
    is healthy, not experiencing pain or other symptoms, and gaining
    weight normally, the tests to get an absolute diagnosis are more
    risky and more painful than the condition.  
    
    --bonnie

    Bonnie, the test is NOT dangerous, just inconvienient.  For us it
    simply required a 24 hour period in the hospital, attached to a monitor
    that looks like the one used during labor.  There was a portable
    monitor worn like a pocketbook in the first test, he was totally mobile
    during the first test.  The monitor will pick up ANY reflux, like I
    said, his second test showed only a 5 minute period during the whole 24
    hour monitoring.  And again, he virtually never spit up at all.
    
    The whole basis to having him tested was to find out if his reflux was
    causing first his asthma attacks, and secondly his ear infections.
    
    Lyn
    

    That's not what my doctor told me about the test when we were
    considering it for Kat.  He said there was more danger from the
    test -- choking on the equipment was one, and shock was another --
    than from the occasional vomiting, and also that there was a
    certain margin of error in the test.  And it wouldn't have changed
    the course of treatment (or in our case nontreatment) any.
    
    I'm willing to believe that in the 15 or so years between when my
    daughter had her problems and when your son had his, they've
    developed new tests that are safer and more accurate.  But there's
    also a tendency on the part of medical people to assume great
    accuracy in tests, and to gloss over the risks of tests.  It seems
    like sometimes in their quest to know exactly what's going on in a
    patient's body, they forget that it doesn't always make a
    difference, or might make a negative difference.
    
    --bonnie

    I have a 6 months old daughter who has on 4 occasion cries for her milk
    and would happily drink up her milk. Unfortunately, after finishing her
    feed (6 oz only) or half way through her feed, she would vomit half of
    her milk feed with such force that the milk is quite a distance away
    from her and the both of us and the surrounding area are left soaking
    with milk.
    I would panic whenever it happens but not her - she would look at me
    and smile like nothing happen. (she would then demand for another milk
    feed 2-3 hours later) Such incident would throw the feeding schedule
    upside down.
    Could this projectile vomiting has anything to do with:
    1) my baby having stop burping after 5 months and the vomiting started
    during that time. We have tried burping her but nothing happens.
    2) Teat hole is too small, thus she is sucking in more air and more
    milk.
    
    On the few occasion that happened, she was either lying on my arms,
    sitting or standing.
    
    Has anyone encounter this kind of situation. If u do, what's the remedy
    and how long will it go on.  I'm getting quite worried.
    
    

    
    Has anyone heard of REFLUX?  It is part of the esaphagus in newborns
    that is not fully developed yet, and what happens is that newborns
    tend to choke on their food.  Well, we had a scarey situation back
    in May when my daughter (Rebecca)was 4 weeks old.  I was visiting a 
    friend about 30 minutes away.  I had just finished feeding Rebecca
    when I thought it was time to go home.  Well, we were driving on the
    highway and she was screaming her lungs out.  I thought to myself
    she must have gas or something.  About a few seconds later she
    calmed down.  I was thinking about pulling over but, there was alot
    of traffic and I didn't really know the area.  Besides we were about
    5 minutes from the house.  Well we got home and I took Rebecca into
    the house and I noticed she was sleeping quietly.  Well, I stopped
    at the kitchen table to read something, she was still in my arms.
    Well, I walked into our bedroom and put her on the bed to take off
    her jacket and bonnet.  Well, I looked down and she was as blue as
    the ocean.  She was kind of purple and blue mixed.  I started to scream
    so loud yelling to my husband HONEY, THE BABY IS BLUE!!!!!!!!  I
    starting crying hysterically.  My husband picked her up slapped her
    face to make her come to, and immediately she started to turn pink.
    Well, I was on the phone so fast with my pedi, yelling at them to
    hurry up.  My husband took her outside to get some air and she 
    then threw up on him.  I was so afraid!  We rushed her into the car
    and took off to the doctors.  They said she seemed fine but it was
    a precaution to admit newborns when then turn blue.  So we took
    her to Children's Hospital in Boston where they ran all sorts of tests
    from blood to an upper GI.  She was there for 5 days.  She had an 
    IV in her head, they gave her a spinal tap.  I was so depressed!  I
    wanted to switch places with her.  Well finally the 5th day came and
    they had her schedule for an upper GI.  Well, they could see that when
    she swallows the esaphagus doesn't close properly.  Well, I was so
    relieved that this wasn't a major problem. They had told me that 
    she will outgrow this.  They also put her on cereal at 4 weeks old.
    Since then thank god, we haven't had any episodes.  She is now 4 months
    old and is growing wonderfully.  But what I want to know is how
    long is it before she stops spitting up so much.  Has anyone ever
    heard of REFLUX and has had a problem with it?
    
    Thanks
    Kim
    
    

    My son seems to be having a problem with reflux.  It is as you
    describe.  In Brad's case, he was supposed to come home from the
    hospital last week (he's been there from birth --  14 weeks now), but
    started having problems with reflux.  With him, when everything comes
    back up, he gags, then has apnea (he stops breathing), and that goes
    into bradycardia (his heart rate drops).  He can't come home until he
    hasn't had any of these spells for 5 days (so far, he's gone 2 days
    which is wonderful for him....maybe he'll be home next week).  The
    doctors said that he will outgrow it eventually, but they started to
    try a few things to control the reflux.  He's on rice cereal now.  The
    reason for that is that the rice cereal will make the formula heavier,
    so it is harder for it to come back up.  And he's on some medication
    which he gets 1/2 before feedings 3 times a day to help control it.  It
    seems to be working, but we're not sure which of the fixes is actually
    helping or if it is a combination of the 2.
    
    He will eventually outgrow it, but since he has an ostomy and is not
    using all of his intestines to process his food, it will take much
    longer for him to outgrow it than other babies.  But since he will be
    coming home on oxygen and a monitor, we will know if he is having
    problems.

    re: .19
    
    I always wondered why Kat got so much better after she started on
    cereal . . .
    
    There are degrees of reflux, too, and it sounds like your baby's
    got a bad one.  That must be so scary.  
    
    --bonnie
    

    
    
    	RE: Kim
    
    	My pedi explained the same thing to me and it usually stops
    	(or at least slows down) around six months of age.  My
    	daughter has (knock on wood) stopped spitting up as much
    	and she just turned five months old yesterday.
    
    	My pedi suggested laying her on her stomach at a 45 degree
    	angle.  That was supposed to prevent the formula from
    	coming back up - didn't work for me.  We just watched her
    	and if she spit, she spit - she'd still smile and she'd
    	still want the rest... then again, she didn't do it often
    	enough to warrant a lot of worry.
    
    	But the thing he told me about putting her on cereal was
    	that the weight would keep it down and would be less 
    	likely to come back up...
    
    	/Kim