Conference moira::parenting_v3

My advice would be to ask the director of the center, and say that the 
incident concerned you, and you'd like to know what happened.  

As I read your note, I don't interpret the incident the same way you do.  But 
the bottom line is that _you_ need to feel comfortable.  Also, I think it 
would help me understand if I knew the approximate age of the child and your 
son.  

>Some of my concerns right now are:

>	 How/why did the teacher let the situation get so
>        out of control, that it required two other teachers
>        to get involved.

>        That poor child must have been so scared to have
>        three adults virtually ganging up on him (I myself
>        would be scared to have 3 adults against me)

I hate to say this, but there have been times that my own children have 
approached the situation as you described it -- never at daycare, but at home, 
at the grocery store, and other places.  Seems to me that you have described 
normal behavior -- child gets out of control, gets "timed out" and regains 
control.  The scratching is not necessarily intentional -- I have been kicked 
in the groin more times than I'd care to remember.  So while the child may 
have been "out of control", it doesn't _necessarily_ mean that the _situation_ 
was "out of control".

You described one adult handling the situation, one watching from another part 
of the room, and a third closing the door.  This doesn't seem like "ganging 
up" to me.  If all three were doing something with the child, then maybe it 
would seem like "ganging up", and even if benign, is probably not good 
judgment.  How many teachers are _normally_ in the room?

Did the teacher seem to be making the situation worse?  Was she yelling at the 
child?  Using more physical force than necessary to restrain him and/or to get 
him to the time out area?  Striking him?  Was the _teacher_ "out of control"?

>	Would the situation had calmed down as quickly if
>	I had not been there to witness it?

My experience is that if a child is really upset, they don't care WHO is 
watching.  But I wasn't there -- you were, and you seem to think that your 
presence had an effect.  Were you and your son the only other people in the 
room?

>        Will that child's parents be told about what happened?
>        If so I'm sure it would be a 1 sided view. and I
>        myself would like to know.

My advice would be to talk to the director, as mentioned above.  Both because 
the incident was upsetting to you, and because their policy on reporting
such incidents to parents is relevant information.  Also, if you feel they 
handled it poorly, you can say how.

>        My son told me before school started that he didn't 
>        want this teacher... he said she yells at him...
>        and I know of at least 1 other parent that has concerns
>        about her...

I think that's entirely relevant to talk about with the daycare center 
director.  I think most situations at daycare can be handled without 
"yelling".  If you don't care for an individual teacher's style, then you 
should feel free to discuss it with the director.  If the director can't, or 
won't do anything about it, then you have to decide whether to stay there or 
not.  However, I'd be careful to keep the two issues (the incident and the 
yelling) separate.

And BTW, be careful how you interpret the term "yelling'.  My children 
have frequently been known to use the term "yelling" when they really mean 
"strict".

I also think that you acted properly in not leaving until the incident had 
subsided somewhat.  The incident may have been upsetting to your son also, and 
I think that it's good if he understands that it's normal and understandable 
for such events to be upsetting.

Clay

    sounds related to another recently entered note wishing to talk to
    parents who have children in another day care center? and the other 
    note with Mr T?
    I hope digital resources aren't being used on a witch hunt.  I would
    use caution when talking to parents who bring children to a day
    care center.  If one places undue doubt in parents minds when there
    is talk/rumor without substanual FACTs, one could cause parents to
    pull children out of a day care situation when the provider is totally
    innocent.
    
    I urg caution, make sure there is grounds.  Remember if you talk to the
    parents and cause them to pull of the Day care center, the provider
    may wish to talk with you- in the court room.
    
    Any suspected cases of abuse should be turned over to trained
    investigators who can discreetly investigate the charges, and do not
    cause damage unlike the amature Dick Tracy.

    RE:-1  I totally disagree with what you have said (kind of a point
    counterpoint type thing :'))  If there is any indication of wrongdoing,
    it needs to be investigated.  I don't know about anyone else, but I'd
    rather err on the side of my childs safety as opposed to the daycare
    provider.  There are proper ways to do it, but it needs to be done.  I
    really don't think Digitals resources are being used for a witch hunt. 
    Come on now.  This file is to get other peoples reactions, opinions,
    etc which is exactly what the base noter is asking for.
    
    Peace,
    
    Mike

    I wasn't there, so perhaps your summary doesn't convey something
    that a person at the scene would have noticed, but I didn't see
    anything in your account that I found alarming.
    
    A preschooler had a temper tantrum and had to be physically
    removed from the group. Unfortunate, but perfectly normal in
    children that age.  The teacher removed the child from the
    situation and gave him time out, where he promptly calmed down. 
    Again, normal.  The child scratched the teacher -- as Clay pointed
    out, it's pretty easy to get accidentally injured when trying to
    calm a screaming flailing child in the midst of a temper tantrum.
    
    Closing the door on the scene to keep the other children from
    being more upset than necessary seems both wise and compassionate. 
    
    Did the child's red and puffy eyes make you think he'd been crying
    for some time?  When Steven doesn't get his way about something,
    he twists up his face and starts to wail in a way that turns his
    face red and puffy and you'd swear he'd been screaming for a week.
    So that might not mean anything. 
    
    If you're concerned about the incident then by all means do
    discuss it with the director.  It sounds as though you do at least
    need to find out what the reporting procedures are.  But knowing
    only what you record here, it sounds to me like an unpleasant
    situation quickly and correctly handled. 
    
    --bonnie

    My 3 year old once had a temper tantrum in Star Market that caused me
    to leave my cart and calmly walk out of the store with her.  What
    surprised me, however, was the number of passers-by who either gaped
    at me as if I were abusing my child or *directly* intervened.  
    
    The point I'm trying to illustrate here is that young children can have
    such intense emotional reactions that on-lookers may be lead to think 
    something terrible has transpired.  But such displays can be
    business-as-usual for many preschoolers.
    
    IMHO, if you are uncomfortable by all means discuss it with the
    director.  However, I would couch the discussion terms of how it
    relates to your child (such as -- "Are events like these discussed with
    parents?") rather than "Were this particular child's parents
    notified?".  This will give you an opportunity to discuss what
    types of events warrant parental notification.
    
    Have fun!
    LZP
       

	I agree with most of the other replies here.  

	The most amazing fit that Katie has ever thrown, lasting a solid 20 min,
was caused by my husband closing the door from the kitchen to the front hall.
Not on her fingers, not in her face, just closed it when she was a good 10 feet 
away from it.  The child went from happy into wild animal rage instantaneously.
There was no question of "letting it build up".  And Katie is one of the most 
incredibly good natured in the world. (Not just my opinion, all of her daycare
teachers have said the same.)   

	I think that while it was unsettling to have to witness, that unless 
there is more to it than your notes said, that it is nothing to worry about.

Tracey 

P.S. Katie's eyes turn red and puffy if she even THINKS about crying. 

       I think it is a shame that a parent would ignore this situation 
    with all of the things that are happening in today's society.  There 
    are too many child-abuse incidents in school's and daycare centers to
    act is if your child is having "just another tantrum".  I am very
    fortunate to have a family member watching my son, it makes my work day
    all the more peaceful.  You can never be too careful when it comes to
    the well-being of your children, but that's just my opinion.
    
    Francine            
    

    re: .7
    
    Not to suggest that this is the case in your situation, but I believe
    that the statistics might show that child-abuse is more prevalent
    amongst family members than in schools and daycares.  The daycare
    episodes are perhaps more publicized however.  Sorry, but I don't
    care for either the "tone" or implication of your note.
    
    Carol

    
    Maybe I read your message wrong--but the tone of it implies that you
    are better off because a relative takes care of your child.
    
    This is all well and good--but frankly, there are many parents out
    there who would not leave their children with a relative for obvious
    and not-so-obvious reasons.  Just because you have a good relationship
    with your relatives--and hopefully, they provide a stimulating
    environment for your child(ren)--doesn't mean that daycare centers are
    any better or worse.  Everyone has different needs/desires.  I am glad
    you found a situation that meets yours and those of your family.
    
    On the other side of the coin, I had private, in-home daycare for the
    first 2 1/2 years of my daughters life.  My daughter was basically
    adopted into the providers family and to this day, feels like she is
    "part of the clan."  I transitioned her into an excellent, local
    daycare center at age 2 1/2 for socialization reasons--and she is
    thriving.  I think she would be bored in a private home at this point.
    
    Everyone has different values, desires, and needs.  It's best to
    respect those needs.  Not everyone may think your situation is ideal,
    but it's great that you do.  That's what I think we should be
    supporting here--the individial, their needs, and their situation.  
    
    Sorry if I'm taking the tone of your note too personally.  It's just
    that I bristle when I think someone is putting their values onto me.
    
    Bonnie
    
    

    
    
      Re: .8 & .9
    
    
        Sorry.   The only point I am trying to make is that I would rather
    be safe than sorry for not investigating all of the possibilities.  I
    think it would be great if I could leave my son at a daycare center 
    without biting my nails off all day wondering if he is o.k. ( Just
    to let you know; the family member's is a daycare center). I am very
    thankful that I have someone who takes good care of him.   
    
        I know that every parent knows his own child's personality,
    therefore is able to judge the situation better.  I am probably just a
    very naive and unexperienced first-time mother so I will leave it at
    that.