Conference moira::parenting_v3

    We never had any problems with Eric in the walker.  He used it
    until about 11 months.  They can be VERY dangerous, though.
    My neice went down a few stairs.  The daycare lady's son went down
    the stairs twice (someone forgot to close the gate).  My ex-neighbor's
    child died from injuries sustained in a walker fall.  If the 
    ex-neighbor's child was at home, it was only about 6-8 steps (they
    owned a split).  However, it may have been during the day at someone
    else's home in which case I don't know what kind of stairs he fell
    down.
    
    For us the walker came in quite handy and Eric really enjoyed it.
    I used to let him cruise around the bathroom in it while I was in the
    shower.  When he got a little bigger, though, he reached for something
    and I peaked out of the shower curtain to find him hanging on by his feet.
    
    If I didn't have a walker, I'm not sure I would buy one.  I hear of
    too many accidents.
    
    Donna  
    
    

    In my experience, the walker caused more problems than it was worth.
    My son, now 15 months, had more accidents than I can even remember.
    The walker seemed to give him a false sense of confidence both when
    he was in the walker and out of it.  On many occasions we caught
    Josh "just in time" as he shifted the walker on edge.  I don't believe
    it helped him to walk any sooner, in fact it may have hindered his
    walking in that the movement in the walker is totally differnet
    from "real" walking.
    
    Pam

Well, for us it was a sort of godsend.  It gave both of our kids a lot of 
enjoyment, and judicious use of gates and "roadblocks" prevented them from 
getting places we didn't want them to go.  We never had any serious accidents 
or close calls.

I think that there are several notes in here about walkers; I suggest that you 
consult v2 also.  IMO, if you decide to get one (or probably more likely if 
you decide to use one that is given to you as a gift) make sure it's one of 
the newer designs with sturdier wheels and a wider base.  The wider base makes 
them harder to tip over and fit through doorways, etc.

There've been a lot of negative comments about them, some from hospital 
personnel, pediatricians, and the like.  So, even if you don decide to use, 
one I would urge you to remember that a walker is NOT a substituye for 
parental attention.

Clay

    We used a walker with all three kids, and never had one single
    accident. But that is not to imply that they cannot happen! Actually,
    the only walker accident I personally know of, is a small boy who was
    in a very old walker which collpased...you know, sort of folded up...on
    him, and crushed the tip of one of his fingers which got pinched. Can't
    remember if he lost the finger or not. I think, used cautiously, and
    wisely they are no more dangerous than any other piece of baby
    equipment (you know...rolling off the changing table, climbing onto and
    falling off tables, high chairs, etc.). We have, and I would only
    recommend, a wide-based one which is very difficult to tip over by a
    leaning child. And never, *never*, NEVER let them near stairs in it!
    I dont' think any of our kids walkd any sooner because of it....they
    walk when they are ready, pretty much no matter what you do. But they
    all enjoyed the walker, up to a certain age, usually when they could
    crawl reasonably well, and get around that way. Then they wanted to be
    out and on the floor.
    We had more accidents with the infant seat! Once, with our daughter, it
    was on the kitchen table (she was only 2 weeks old) and our son tried
    to rock it the way he'd seen mommy do (mommy was only 3 feet away,
    stirring supper on the stove), and he flipped her right off the table,
    seat and all. she was strapped in and not hurt, but it scared her (and
    my wife!!!!) half to death. Another time, we put our youngest on a high
    counter in his seat, and he startled at something, jumped, and flipped
    it right onto the floor! He got a bump on his forehead, but that was
    all. We put it always on the floor after that!
    And we had our eldest in the high chair when he was about 5 mos. old,
    and the strap buckle (defective, unbeknownst to us) broke, he arched,
    and shot out the front. Recieved a couple of good lumps and bruises,a
    nd scared us to no end!
    so....bottom line? Use it it you like, with caution and a clear head,
    jsut the way you'd use any baby equipment.
    
    --dave--(who tends to ramble ;-)  )
    

I did not want to get a walker because I had heard that it discourages
crawling (they will not try as hard to crawl somewhere when they can cruise
over there in the walker) - but Kati enjoyed hers so much at daycare and I
found a bargain ($4 in a garage sale) that I went ahead and did it.

I think I would reconsider if I had ANY stairs, and would either not get one,
or keep it on the lowest floor.  The only accidents I have ever heard about
were involving stairs.  (Serious accidents, that is)

Can't you protect the doorway to the basement somehow?  If so then I think
the walker can be a benefit.  If not, it's not worth the risk.

Kristen

    We had one semi-serious injury with the walker that required a trip
    to the Emergency Room.   Walkers and stairs just don't mix.   After
    the mishap, we continued to use the walker for a while longer but
    only under CONSTANT supervision.  A walker is not a baby-minder.
    
    The ER doctor said that they see tons of walker accidents and not all
    involving stairs.   He pleaded with us to put the walker away 
    immediately (he felt VERY strongly about walkers).   Our pediatrician
    confirmed the high rate of serious accidents with walkers (she said
    our son was lucky).
    
    I don't believe that walkers help a child learn to walk and agree with
    a previous noter, that it probably hinders them from crawling.  
    However, I think that they are a pretty useful when the baby is able
    to hold their head up but not yet too active.  At that stage, it
    gives them a nice vantage point for the daily activities and play
    of other children around them.
    
    Can anyone confirm that walkers have been banned in Canada?  
    
    Carol

Matt loved his walker.  However, we had 2 mishaps.  

We have a split entry house, with a gate across the top of the stairs.  We
never remove the gate (always climbed over it).  One day, a visitor had 
trouble climbing over it, so I took the gate down, and we all left the house
for awhile.  When me and Matt got home, I forgot to put the gate back up,
and sure enough, he tumbled down the stairs (8) in his walker.  Got a few 
scratches on his cheek and a nasty bump on his head.  Nothing too serious, but 
it scared the dickens out of me and him.

The other mishap occured on our deck. Our deck is 6 inches off the ground.
It has a railing 3/4 of the way around it.  Matt really liked to cruise in
his walker on the deck because he could go so much faster on the deck than
he could on carpeting.  Once he was too fast for me and cruised right off the
deck and landed sideways.  He was scared, but not hurt.

I think if you can cruise-proof your house, and you have no drops or steps
that can't be protected, the newer walkers are OK (they don't tip very 
easily, and the trays are usually wide enough that they can't pinch their
fingers between the walker and wall).  I plan to use our walker with #2, but
I think I will be a bit more cautious.

BTW, I believe the walker prevented Matt from learning how to crawl.  He never
crawled until AFTER he learned to walk.  BUT...I think it helped him learn to
walk. He began walking unassisted at 11 1/2 mos.

� �ori �

    
    JA owned two walkers.  The first was a gift from my coworkers.  One of
    those "better" walkers with the slip-guard bottoms.  Seemed to work,
    but luckily we never had to "test it" -- I kept gates closed and
    barriers in place.    The second was an average walker, which Jim used
    in his office (which is confining to begin with).
    
    JA "lived" in it -- played in it, watched TV in it, ate in it, played
    outdoors in it, hung out in Daddy's office in it ... It was great!
    
    She outgrew it at about 10 months -- when she began walking AND began
    climbing out of it!  (She pretty well wore out the seat by then
    anyways - from use AND bouncing!.)   But we keep it on the porch for 
    little-ones who come to visit.
    
    JA cruised furniture at 8 months, walked with support (holding hands)
    at 9 months, walked unsupported at 10 months, ran at 11 months, 
    climbed at 12 months ... and NEVER REALLY crawled.  Not sure if 
    this had anything to do with the excessive use of the walkers.
    
    Dottie
    
    PS:  I'd use a walker again.
                             

    Our walker was a Christening gift from my inlaws, it's the Graco with
    the extra piece that has the toys hanging down.  We never had any
    problems with injuries, just one minor problem with my nephew who is
    extremely active and somehow tipped it backwards and bumped his head. 
    We fixed that bump with lots of hugs and kisses.
    
    When someone mentions walker I recall the looks from AJ of glee when he
    was cruising.  Our home is a Cape, so the stairs wern't really an
    issue.  The rule we used was when he was in the walker the physical
    lock on the cellar stair was secured.  Now the cat never liked that,
    she's stand at the cellar door with her legs crossed wanting to use
    her "facilities" in the cellar or just plain escape from this little
    terror on wheels.  The hall always made great cruising space, then the 
    walker reminded me of where the clutter needed cleaning, since he'd grab
    anyting out of place from the walker...and look so proud!
    
    Lyn

Given the philosophical concerns about a walker interfering in the normal
course of development, the orthopedic concerns, the almost universal
condemnation from the medical community, and the appallingly high injury
rate for children that use them, it would seem that the *only* reason for
putting children in a walker is that they *like* them.  

But surely we as parents don't hesitate to withhold other things that our 
infants would like, but that we know would be bad for them?  What is it about 
walkers that seems so often to grant them an exemption from parental judgment?

Is it possible that a baby in a walker looks a lot like a baby walking,
and that that is rewarding to the *parent* who would love to have a 
developmentally advanced child?

	-Neil

    We used a walker (from about 5 months to 9 months, when he started
    climbing out).
    
    The reason I used it was that I could put him in it and he would be
    happier than if I put him in the baby seat, and he would still be
    prevented from leaving the room or playing with the cat food (I'd have
    no objection if he ate it, but I prefer not to have to pick it up
    from all over the floor).
    
    I also used (and still do) a baby back-pack as a way to keep him out
    of my hands but happy while I worked.
    
    So for me a walker is a "minder", like a tiny play-pen.
    
    As for "developmentally advanced", I don't think that was an issue
    for me.
    			-John Bishop

    Kat had a walker when she was little.  She used as  basically a
    pre-walking version of a tricycle.  I don't recall her having any
    accidents in it -- certainly none that required medical attention. 
    She liked active toys (rocking donkey, bouncing swing) much more
    than sitting around playing with blocks or pushing trucks across
    the floor.
    
    I do recall a couple of walking accidents, and several climbing
    accidents, however.  It's a mistake to think that if the kid
    doesn't have a walker, no accidents will happen.
    
    We haven't used one for the two youngest because the house we live
    in now isn't really suited for it and because neither of them has
    shown much interest in that kind of activity.  
    
    If a child is in the walker for extended periods every day, I can
    see how it might interfere with normal development or cause
    orthopedic problems -- but the bones at that age are so malleable
    that almost any activity done to excess can cause orthopedic
    damage.  
    
    It seems like the source of the danger is that the walker allows
    children to get into situations they wouldn't be able to get into
    without the walker's help, making them mobile before their
    perceptions have caught up with the idea of mobility.  And when an
    accident does happen, it's often more serious than it would have
    been if the child just fell without help from the walker. 
    
    But it has always puzzled me why so many people seem to be less
    careful about checking doors, gates, and such when the child is in
    the walker than when the child is crawling around on the floor.  
    
    --bonnie

    Wow, two hot topics in as little as two weeks! and all repeats.
    Its ok to discuss pros and cons.  I really don't see a 'right' answer
    in so much as one can put on a hollier than thou attitude.
    
    There is no substitue for constant survalence of a young'n.  We could
    ban all the food, not travel by cars, and put the baby in a rubber 
    room.  Or we could tolerate each other's different parenting styles.
    And get on with the idea of shareing ideas.
    ed
    

    I remember asking my doctor about this, and her basic belief is that
    walkers are good for parents, but don't necessarily promote/inhibit
    walking in children.
    
    I also talked to a friend who is a physical therapist - she was
    adamantly against the use of walkers, but strongly recommended that if
    we used one, make sure the seat is positioned low enough so that the
    child's legs are bent. If they have to stretch/reach to touch the
    ground, or stand on tiptoes, they're putting undue pressure on
    not-yet-firmed-up hip sockets, potentially leading to some real hip
    problems.
    
    And in the end, Ryan pushed his walker around filled with toys, rather
    than sit in it. I think he sat in it a total of 20 minutes...:-)
    

    We're considering getting a doughnut walker, which allows them to stand
    up straight and walk around.  Anyone have any experience with these? It
    seems like it's this or forever be bent over holdinf tiny fingers as
    Daniela "walks" -- she can only low crawl, great if there were bullets
    flying in the living room, but hasn't been able to get her arms
    straight, knees bent and belly up all at the same time.  Do you think
    that the type of crawling/creeping that babies do before walking is
    important for later development? 

    I vote yes. We never had any problem with our son in the walker but we
    never left him unsuprevised in it. We were always in the same room or
    knew he was following us into the next room. The layout of our first
    floor was excellent for a walker (open floor pattern) so you could
    always see. 
    
    A trick for worrying about stairs - put up a gate even behind closed
    doors. We had a gate at the top of the cellar stairs so if for some
    reason he opened the door (which opened outward so he would have to
    crack the door open, move his walker aside and then get a grip on the
    door to pull it open), he would be met with a gate!! 
    
    I never used the walker upstairs so there was never any chance of him
    going down that set. 
    
    If you can, spend the money on a good walker!!! We took our son to the
    store with us and tried him out all of them and saw instantly which
    ones he could easily tip over. It was definitely worth the time.  He
    never tipped over in his walker and he was a very active baby. He
    probably gave it up about 10 months or so when he was walking by
    himself and prefered to walk rather than cruise in the walker.
    
    A good alternative to a walker is a jumper - exercise and still
    "contained". We never used one because there wasn't a door frame to put
    it in where we wouldn't have our backs to him or be sitting in the
    front hall to entertain him (because of the open floor pattern). 
    
    Andrea

    re -.15
    No, crawling/creeping is not necessary to develop walking skills. Some
    babies never learn to crawl whether or not they are in a walker, and
    some babies crawl *forever* before they walk. We had one of each. Our
    eldest, Josh, squirmed on his belly or rolled everwhere he wanted to
    go. He maybe actaully crawled for 2 or 3 days before he walked, and
    that was at 15 mos. And then he walked firmly and steadily. And, yes,
    he can crawl when he wants (like when scooting a truck across the
    floor). Our daughter did everything textbook....rolled over, then sat,
    then belly crawled, then crawled on all fours, then stood, then
    cruised, then walked....all by 12 mos. Our youngest son crawled on all
    4's from about 8 mos. on until he finally walked at a few days shy of
    16 mos.   He had been cruising since 9 mos., and just never got up the
    nerve or skill or *whatever* to let go and walk.
    We know of a perfectly normal little boy, who never learned to roll
    from his back to his stomach....*never*! He was 2 yrs. old, crawling,
    walking, running, and yet if you put him on his back he was as helpless
    as a turtle on his back....just couldn't seem to figure it out! Very
    weird, very troubling to his parents, but their Dr. said he was
    obvioulsy normal, and not to worry. They literally had to teach him to
    do it, and when he got the hang of it, he was so excited!
    So all the "prerequisite" skills are not always necessary to move on to
    the next stage.
    --dave--

    Walkers are great to keep the child occupied while mom and dad are busy
    with their hands. Our daughter loves her walker, she runs around the
    kitchen screaming like a maniac. I teaches mom and dad to were shoes
    though, she has run over and into my feet a few huindred time now.
      We had one mishap with a walker, Taylor went down 13 hardwwod steps
    in her walker at the babysitters and fractured her skull. Forunately
    no complications. The baby sitter hung up the walker, we still use
    ours. We make sure the doors are close to stairways. One other danger
    is to small animals like cats that get sandwiched between her walker
    and a kitchen cabinet, ouch!
      BTW: Taylor is only 9 months and walks 5-30 steps on her own. The fun
    begins!?
    
                                       jeff

    Our 3 all used walkers.  They loved them.  Walkers allow them to be
    upright and mobile for 2-3 months before they can crawl or walk. This
    mitigates the frustration of wanting to do things - or even just to
    move - but not being physically able to do so.  
    
    We always delighted in their delight at the new-found freedom.  As for
    arguments against - children at this age require constant oversight no
    matter what they're doing (you can fall down the stairs about as easily
    as rolling down). As for the effect on walking or crawling, I was amused 
    to see that in this note the argument revolved around the
    "does-it-help-them-walk-earlier" theory.  I had previously heard this
    under the "does-it-delay-learning-to-walk" theory.  Who knows?  Who
    cares?  I promise you they will all learn to walk eventually.  And this
    is the kind of area in which I take the opinions of the medical profession 
    with a large grain of salt. Common sense and your (and your child's)
    style are better guides.
    
    Kit Binns