Conference moira::parenting_v3

    If I'm recalling right we just made sure the cords were as short as
    possible (wound up and secured with either twist-ties or those plastic
    ties from large garbage bags) and that anything that had a cord was 
    surrunded by other things. By that I mean, our TV sat kiddy-corner in the 
    family room with the outlet off to one side and the cord was there in the 
    open. We moved our speakers around and placed one directly in front of the 
    outlet next to the TV so the cords of both were hidden behind something. 
    Luckily, our son seem to stay contained to the family room and the kitchen 
    so the table lamps on glass-top tables in the living room weren't very
    interesting. 
    
    You might have to rearrange a few things to get the cords hidden and,
    worse case, you might have to give up table lamps for a while. We
    actually had ceiling lighting installed when the house was being built so
    in our family room there was only one lamp next to the sofa and if he
    crawled into the space between the sofa and the floor lamp, he had to
    be pretty good, especially since the opening was blocked by the other
    speaker. It might be time to install track-lighting if nothing seems to
    work.
    
    Definitely stress the those cords are dangerous. I think it took one
    yell from me at the top of my lungs the first (and only) time I saw my
    son heading for an open outlet (at a friend's house with keys in his
    hands). I don't know who was more scared - me or him from the yell I let
    out. In your son's case, he may also have a lamp topple on his head. 
    
    If worse comes to worse and you cannot find a way to deter your son or
    hide the cords, there must be some rubber/plastic tubing you could get
    that you could cover the cords with. If he bit on them, he would have
    to bite awfully hard to get to the actual cord. You could even use
    those colored shower cutain rod covers that they sell these days in
    most bathroom supply stores or home decorating stores.  You could find
    them to match your carpet color so no one would really know. Just some
    ideas if deterring doesn't work.
    
    You seem to have EVERYTHING else covered!!
    
    Happy Babyproofing!!!
    Andrea                                              
    
    (As an aside note - when you are installing the latchs, make sure you
    do it exactly according to the directions in refernces to the
    measurements/spacing needed. We had one latch that was 1/16 of an inch
    off and it never worked and redrilling 1/16 of an inch closer just
    made to big of a hole to keep the screw in. Practice the first few in
    doors/cabinets that house things that wouldn't be fatal if your son got
    in them - like a food cabinet or linen closet.) 

Instead of stapling the cord to the baseboard, you might try cable clamps.  
Very crude (end) view follows.

           __
____o_____(  )
____o________)

The cord goes through the space defined by the parentheses.  There is a hole 
at the o's.  A screw fits in here, and fastens the clamp, and thereby the 
cable to the baseboard.  You can use just about any length screw you like, so 
it's just about impossible to remove without a screwdriver.  The clamps are 
usually made of nylon or a plastic, and can be found in most hardware stores.

Clay

    You keep an eye on the child and remove him from the cords
    whenever he starts to play with them -- or in David's case,
    whenevre we see him heading for a particular favorite. 
    
    You may have to move him what seems like a million times before he
    gets the idea -- but you can't hide everything that can hurt a
    child, and he needs to learn that there are some things he just
    isn't allowed to do.
    
    Locking everything up can have the reverse effect of making it
    appealingly dangerous.  David at 11 months has learned not to play
    with the lamp cord in the living room, but the wire that connects
    the stereo speaker (which is run around the side of the room and
    taped down so everybody else doesn't trip on it) is a constant
    source of fascination on those rare times when it's visible.
    
    --bonnie

Our ten month old, David, has just discovered the delights of sticking his 
fingers into the slot in a video recorder. This afternoon I checked with 
the suppliers to see if he can get a shock from doing this, the answer was 
yes. Apart from placing the equipment out of reach, at great inconvenience, 
is there anything we can do? If the video must be out of reach, what 
are the alternatives?

Thanks,
Dave.

                      <<< Note 320.4 by OVAL::KERRELLD >>>
                      -< Babyproofing a video recorder? >-

>Our ten month old, David, has just discovered the delights of sticking his 
>fingers into the slot in a video recorder


Two things (which we will have to do later on..)


Most of the big DIY shops (B&Q, W.H.Smiths etc) sell
VIDEO GARD (I think thats _their_ spelling).. its just
a plastic shield that covers all the front of your
video.. about 8 or nine pounds

or


VIDEO LOCK ... (i've only seen this on mail order)
this is about the width and height of a video
cassette.. but only a few inches long...
so that it fits into the video slot and
locks (with a key) into place

    re: .4
    
    I sympathize . . . 
    
    Several years ago, back in the first video game craze, our
    Colecovision stopped working.  Bizarre displays, weird sounds, all
    the signs of an electrical problem.  I unplugged it and took off
    the cover to see what was wrong. . .
    
    About a dozen pennies that Steven, then about 12-14 months old,
    had carefully slid through the vent slots.  
    
    --bonnie

    How about if you just leave a tape in the slot?  Will that stop him
    from getting his fingers in it?  (Marc can't reach our VCR, but he
    loves to "adjust" the TV fine-tuning dials for us :-))
    

Thanks for the ideas, the video guard sounds best as it prevents unwanted 
button pushing as well.

Dave.

        I think Bonnie is on the right track with this child
    proofing bit.  We moved some things like the bleach and drain
    cleaner and such.  For the most part things were left as is.
    The kids learned, eventually, what was touchable and what was
    not.  I'm not saying it doesn't take work, a lot talk (some
    rather loud) and a lot of attention getting (short of a 2X4
    beside the head - [smiley face here]).

        Parenting is a tough job, no doubt about it.  Honesty and
    mutual respect goes a long way.  Establish the the rules and
    set the limits day one and stick to them.  It will work.
    Trust me.


    Peter Duke

    One of the best ways I've found to ensure I get almost everything up
    out of reach is to lay down on the floor and look up.  Everything
    within his reach is easily spotted from "his" perspective.  My son
    doesn't seem to care much for what is on the floor, but is more
    interested in what he can reach.  By the way, what is the facination
    with cords and strings? Seems to me they are awfully boring, but my 9
    month old can't resist them.
    
    Sarah
    

    I do also agree with Bonnie and Peter about teaching the child the 
    meaning of what is good to touch and what is off limits. We only had
    child locks on the cabinets that contained cleaning products or
    medications (no medicine cabinets so the stuff was in baskets under the
    sinks) and covers on the electrical outlets that were in the open and
    not in use. The do's and don't were taught. Today my son will always
    ask if something is alright to do, especially things relating to the
    VCR, tv, stove, appliances, etc. We only blocked off the formal living
    room because of glass top tables and so the cat wouldn't be bothered
    in his favorite napping spot but that only lasted until he got out of
    the pulling himself up on everything-stage and we didn't need to worry
    about the glass tops tipping over on him. I think the teaching at an 
    early age helped because sooner or later the child is going to discover 
    what you've been hiding. 
    
    There are times when childproofing is the only sane thing to do. My
    neighbor had to child-lock her refrigerator because EVER time she
    turned her back her son was taking EVERYTHING out in the span of
    seconds (usually spilling it as he went or dropping glass jars on the 
    floor).
    
    Get ready for alot of "don't touch!!".
    
    Andrea

I might add that the baby proofing turns to toddler proofing when
they start climbing. Sammy just trashed one of my 5.25 disk
drives by twisting the knob until it spins. Well the cam does
only a quarter turn normally. Bad news is that the drives are
cheap enough that they are consider a disposal item. A new drive
is $80. Let's see, how long can he stay in the corner...

The very next thing I caught him at after he destroyed the disk
drive was shoving my calculator into the VCR slot. Now, I double
check everything befor powering up the VCR. We thought that we
were smart by getting a VCR that requires a remote but he still
gets his hands in the slot.

Then, I go to work on the car. I was under the car and hears the
garage door closing; he had gotten up on a chair to push the
garage door "up/down". Good thing that I got out of the way since
the door would have closed on my legs.

I hate to admit it but the terrible twos are just that;
TERRIBLE!.

calvin

    We bought the white hard plastic latches and my husband put them on
    all the kitchen cabinets.  He then bought a couple metal ones and
    put them on the bathroom drawers.  Guess what?  Within 3 weeks Eric
    figured out how to open the plastic ones.  We're going to replace 
    them with the metal ones which are shaped differently because they
    are more difficult to open.  
    
    At first Eric loved the latches.  He would open the cabinet door
    the two or so inches the latch allowed, then he would slam it.  He
    would do this really fast and make all kinds of racket.  Then he
    advanced to opening and closing two doors at the same time making
    double the racket.  We always got a kick out of it. Then one day
    Eric stuck his little fingers in there and low and behold, the door
    opened.  After several practice openings he became an expert.  Our
    kitchen is now back to having all our kitchen chairs lined up against 
    the cabinets until we get those metal latches.
    
    Eric also loves to yank the one cord we are unable to surround with
    magazine racks or whatever, so those suggestions are helpful to me.
    He also loves to put his finger in my parent's VCR.  I never thought he
    could reach far enough in there to get a shock.  Now I'm scared,
    although still a little doubtful.  Can they really get a shock?
    
    Donna
      
    

    re.13
    Yes, they really can get a shock from a VCR.  We unplug the VCR when
    not in use, and take a peek inside with a flashlight before inserting a
    tape.  Just in case...
    
    Sarah
    

    
    I agree with Bonnie and all who advocate teaching limits.   We simply
    moved all dangerous items to the highest shelves and put plasticware,
    pots and pans, etc on the lower shelves in the kitchen and towels,
    sheets, etc on the lower shelves in the bath/hall closets.   Plants,
    books, etc. have all stayed as is and Jason is learning don't touch.
    We've had a few messes, but nothing dangerous.   I can always tell
    when he's getting into something by the *silence* :-)!   I think it's
    important for him to learn limits because everywhere we go won't always
    be baby-proofed.
    
    For what its worth, carol

    We have also gone by the moderate babyproofing rule.  
    Carol, I can relate!  Just this morning I could tell
    that Steven (10 mos) was into "something" that he 
    shouldn't be, because of the silence.
    
    One question though, no matter how stearn I say "don't touch"
    "that's Mommy and Daddy's, not Steven's..." etc..he looks
    up at me and laughs!  Even if I am very angry when I say
    these things  How do I get him to know I mean business?
    (and yes I do move him from the object he shouldn't be
    touching).
    
    		Linda
    
    

    .11
    
    I can relate to the refrigerator!! For the past year, RJ (now 26
    months old) has been opening the fridge, taking out whatever he
    wanted (a gallon of milk, pudding, butter, etc!!).  He does close
    the door behind him though!!
    
    Well, after he ate a whole stick of Promise margarine (yuck!!),
    we decided it was time to get the adhesive stap to keep him out
    of the fridge.  RJ saw Daddy un-velcro it last night (once!) and
    about 1/2 hour later... you guessed it... here comes RJ into the
    living room with a gallon of milk *and the adhesive strap!!!!***
    
    Oh well, at least he's getting his dairy products!!!
    
    Meg

    re: .16
    
    David does that too.   Looking angry or raising my voice is
    counterproductive because he thinks it's funny.  I've found that
    it usually works best to keep patiently removing him from the
    situation, without showing much reaction. Calm, patient, and
    implacable :)  The only game he hasn't quickly tired of  is
    grabbing Mama's glasses. 
    
    --bonnie

    re: .16 and .18
    
    Jason does the same thing, but only for me - he respects his
    dad and his babysitter!   I guess he's figured out who's 
    "easy".
    
    cj/

    Thanks for the hints about power cords.
    
    Perhaps we're paranoid about babyproofing, but we had an experience
    that made us that way.  Here in Dallas there's a business that analyzes
    needs, then sells and installs babyproofing equipment for people.  The
    guy who owns it (called Dr. Babyproofer) is a former emergency room
    nurse who has seen it all.  When we took our parenting class at the Red
    Cross, he was the entire program for an evening, and he told us some
    hair-raising stories.  Yes, I know he's in business to make money, but
    the stories he told weren't fabricated, and they scared us pretty
    badly.
    
    For example, babies who drown in commodes and diaper pails.
    
    He had one little girl who drowned in a pitcher of Kool-Ade.  Seems she
    opened the fridge and tried to take a drink from the pitcher.  She
    tipped it up too fast, and when the cold liquid hit her in the face she
    instinctively gasped, drawing the liquid into her lungs.  She died.
    
    Babies who swallow tiny batteries, like watch or calculator batteries. 
    Many parents think they'll just pass them, but in fact the stomach
    acids eat away the outside casing, releasing the acid inside which then
    burns a hole in the stomach or intestine.
    
    The little rubber things on the end of door stops look pretty harmless,
    but they pull off *very* easily and children have died from swallowing
    them.  Also, children have died from swallowing the little plugs that
    people put into electrical outlets as a means of childproofing.
    
    Children, especially very young ones, seem to like the taste of Clorox. 
    Adults think it should taste terrible, and a child should naturally
    stop after the first sip, but in reality they tend to drink it down if
    given a chance.
    
    Children have choked to death on blind cords and all sorts of other
    seemingly innocent things.
    
    I can't remember all the examples Dr. Babyproofer gave, but each and
    every one was something he had personally seen in his years in the
    emergency room.  It definitely got people thinking about babyproofing
    seriously.
    
    Pat had an experience today, as a matter of fact.  Michael pooped
    big-time, and Pat had to rinse out the diaper and washcloth, and then
    wash the diaper cover out.  She was standing at the bathroom sink
    washing the diaper cover, and Michael was on the bathroom floor.  She
    said she took her eyes off him for just a few seconds, and when she
    looked back he had pulled about 10 blossoms off a silk azelea that sits
    on the bathroom floor.  She picked him up and put him in the playpen,
    then proceeded to reassemble the plant.  When she went to get him out
    of the playpen, she noticed something in his mouth, and scooped out
    another silk blossom.  He could have choked on it, and the whole thing
    happened under adult supervision.
    
    Anyway, that's the reason we're doing more than some of you think
    reasonable.  We're not trying to use babyproofing as a substitute for
    parental supervision, but we do want to make it as hard as possible for
    Michael to hurt himself while we're watching him.
    
    Steve

    Steve,
    
    I understand your concern.   It only takes a few seconds for something
    nasty to happen.   However, I would guess that many of the "doctor"'s
    examples are of children who were un/undersupervised.   
    
    Carol

    Actually, this Dr. Babyproofer's examples bring up an important
    point -- distinguishing between things that are going to seriously
    harm the child very quickly, like Clorox, and things that you have
    time to prevent, and deciding how much supervision fits into your
    parenting style.
    
    Sticking keys into a socket is likely to happen very fast and have
    may have serious consequences.  Plants on the floor (many common
    household plants are poisonous) and lamps or other things that can
    be pulled over on little heads are another.  I liked the
    suggestion to get down on the floor and look at the world through
    your baby's eyes -- I found a couple of potential hazards under
    the dining room table that weren't even visible from adult height.
    
    But prying one of those plastic plugs out of the socket is going
    to take some time.  Since one of the things I learned from Kat's
    gymnastics feats is that "supervised" (for me) means "in the same
    room under the eye of one or more people old enough to at least
    say "Mama, David's trying to climb the stairs," that length of
    time is enough to move him away and remind him that that's off
    limits.  Likewise, the door stopper in our bedroom is a known
    attractive nuisance, so if he even heads toward that side of the
    room, it immediately draws my attention.
    
    If you want your child to be able to play in the other room while
    you're not there, then you will have to be a lot more thorough and
    paranoid than I am.  But for me, I find it easier to spend the
    time being there.
    
    We'll leave out my personal belief that "facts" presented by
    someone who stands to profit by them are highly suspect . . . 
    
    --bonnie

    RE .16 (Hi Linda) and others about getting kids to know you mean
    business.
    
    If you phrase your response to touching as "don't touch, that is Mommy
    and Daddy's", it has little meaning other than you don't want them to touch
    something that is not theirs. Yes, children do need to know that
    everything is not "theirs" but it is more important to say "don't
    touch, that is hot"  when they grab at your food or "don't touch, it's
    electric" when they go for a lamp and always give them a noise to go
    with it. For hot it was always that sucking in air noise and no smile
    (no matter how cute they look at you). I found using lots of expressive
    words like "OH" or "OOPs" helped with my son. 
    
    Persistence will pay off - but it is so difficult to stare those big
    eyes and smiles down!!!!
    
    Andrea                                       

    Steve, a quick question but still haven't read all the replies.
    WHERE did you find Cord Shortners?  I asked in ToysRUS and they looked
    at me like I was from Mars!  I know I'm not out of my mind (yet) and
    have really seen these things.  I don't need them for AJ, but if you
    believe this, for my newest FOUR legged kid.  This kitten has a
    fascination for anything plastic to chew on!  It's my phone cord, which
    is mostly straight with little coil and when it's down it's right in
    the hall floor.  We've all stumbled over it at one time or another too.
    Right now we try to do a makeshif drape over the thermostat which is
    right next to the phone, but you have to remember to do this.
    Hoping you can help!
    Lyn
    

    Why not just fold it over several times and wrap it with a
    twistem?  That wouldn't be too safe for a kid if they could reach
    the twistem, but I don't think a kitten is too likely to unwind it
    and try to swallow it . . . 
    
    --bonnie

We ordered many of our babyproofing items from a mail-order source called 
"Perfectly Safe" (1-800-837-KIDS).  They have the cord shorteners.  I've
also seen them locally (which means in Dallas, TX), but don't remember
where. 

One other babyproofing thing I'm going to do, but haven't yet, is to fasten 
our grandfather clock to the wall.  The secretary of a friend of mine in 
Digital New England had her little girl killed a year or so ago when she 
climbed on a heavy dresser and pulled it over on herself.  We have a 
grandfather clock in the foyer that fascinates Michael.  Because the clock 
works are in the top, it's extremely top-heavy and would be easy for him to 
pull over if he decided to climb on it.  I'm not sure yet how to do it 
without destroying the wall, but I'll figure out a way.

Steve

    Have just called Perfectly Safe for a catalog, can't wait to see what
    other great things they have to offer, thanks Steve.  Meanwhile I'll
    use the twistie things on the cord.  AJ doesn't need to learn some
    *real good* words, when I get tangled up in the cord and stumble!!
    (now if I could only figure out which drawer I put the twistie
    things in!!)
    
    Lyn

    re: .26
    
    If you are concerned about anything tipping over, try screwing these
    items to the floor.  A technique that is used for stoves (which also
    tend to be top heavy) is to place a bracket over the lower back (see
    below.)
    
    
    			   +------------+
    			   |	top	|
    			   |	heavy	|
    		Bracket>|====	item	|
    		      __|  |		|		
     Floor  ============================================
    
    The bracket above can be screwed to the floor.  I raised part (==)
    hangs over one of the cross bars at the bottom of the structure.  By
    using this method, the items won't be touched and the only modifications
    made to your house are small screw holes in the floor.  I have used
    this method for dressers and bookcases without any problems.
    
    Dan
    
    P.S.  Sorry about the poor diagram.  I guess I can't draw on the screen
    any better than I can on paper...

    
    
    I have a question regarding my electric stove.  Joey (14 mo.) has been
    going to my stove/oven and touching it a lot lately.  I am always
    telling him no!  HOT!!  (he knows what hot is from teaching him with
    cold then to sim. hot water) He will just laugh and touch it again till
    I spank his hand.  I'm just affraid that some day it might just be very
    hot and he will get hurt.  
    
    Now here's my second question (Safety proofing a stove).  Joey has been
    pulling on the oven door and a few times it would open up and he'd fall
    down on his but.  Is there anything I can use to safety proof my oven
    door with??
    
    
    -Nadine
    

    We second the Perfectly Safe catalog... have purchased several items
    from there.  The one item we purchased that DIDN'T work was somehting
    called edge cushions and corner cusions.  They are rubber  strips
        that you use to go around the edges/corners of things like coffee
    tables.  We had (notice past tense) a glass coffee table with brass
    corners (obviously purchased pre-baby).  We put the edge cusions
    and corner cushions on it, but they didn't stick well at all (had
    double back sticky tape ), kept falling off and we had followed
    their directions implicitly.  Paula called them about it, they sent
    UPS out to pick up the package and sent us a refund check.  No hassles
    at all.  FWIW
    
    Mark.

    I noticed in the Want Ad in note 4 that someone whas looking for
    a circular gate for a space heater.  We also have a need for something
    like that for our den.
    
    Does anyone know where I can buy one?
    
    Mark
    

    I have found a great solution to the problem of Chelsea trying to
    play with the electrical and cable wires that are still around the
    house.  In the Perfectly Safe catalog there is something called
    Wire Guard.  What it is, is pieces of plastic, that the wire snaps
    into, and then has an adhesive strip for attaching to the baseboard.
    The plastic then acts as a cover.  I would use this to cover unsightly
    wire even if Chelsea wasn't around.  It was fairly inexpesnsive
    and installed quickly and easily.
    
    Mark
    

    
               HOW TO BABYPROOF YOUR HOME ???
               ===============================
    
    
    I found this address in the newspaper the other day and thought I would
    share it with others.  Send a note to the following address and they
    will send you a list of 50 things you can do to "BABYPROOF" your home.
    
      Playing It Safe, Inc.
      2045 Mountain Sage Road
      Highlands Ranch, Colo.  80126
    
      or call 303-791-9971
    
    
    
    Don
    

    	We need to babyproof our sunroom which has sliders on all sides 
    opening out to the ground 6 feet below.  The screens are attached
    somehow so they don't slide open, but as our child gets bigger it's
    more possible she could push the screen off the track and out.
    
    	Neighbors of ours have railings that attach to the casing in front
    of the sliders, with vertical bars at least on the side where the
    sliders open.  They seem to be made of aluminum and to match the
    bronze metal tone of the slider frames.  Previous owners put them
    in, however, and no brand name is on them.  The vertical bars look
    to be the appropriate width for child safety.
    
    	We've talked to most of the local home/builder suppliers, door
    companies, and hardware stores in the area (central Mass) without
    getting any leads on these.  The only ones we've seen in the catalogs 
    they've shown us are lightweight grilles for petproofing.  I believe
    we also checked with Sears.
    
    	Do any of the rest of you have sliders that shouldn't be slid?
    How have you childproofed?  Anyone have any leads on where to get these
    railings?  

I was wondering if anyone out there in Parenting-land can help
with this childproofing question...


We have a contemporary colonial home. The front door is directly in
front of the stairs. The dining room and kitchen run front to back
on one side of the house and are mostly open to each other. We've
already used a gate in the hallway to the bathroom/cellar stairs,
etc. But we can't quite figure out what's the right way to block
off Caroline's access the stairs from the dining room. 
Here is the area that we're trying to block off:


		|  | front door
		|  |
		|  |	      |--------- chair rail
	       /|  |	      |
   chair rail /	|  |/	     _|			    cellar
       ^        |  	   _|/			    stairs     bathroom
       |	|  	  | /___________ baseboard--------/
     30"(+/-)   /                                        /
       |       /<------------>	 			/     /
       |      /    3 ft.approx.		       	       / HALL/
      baseboard						   	
                    DINING ROOM
							      KITCHEN


Some of the things to keep in mind...

- We don't want to use hardware in the area between the chair rail
  and the baseboard (there's wallpaper there). It's o.k to use some
  screws, etc. in the baseboard and chair rail. We figure this can
  be filled with wood putty later, if need be.
- We would like a non-accordian style gate, if we can find one.
    - Caroline, at 10 mo. is already 30" tall, so we need a tall gate
      but, we'd also like to be able to get in and out ourselves with
      relative ease. A hinge style gate would be very nice.
    

Any suggestions?
    

    RE:  -1
    
    Consider a play yard enclosure.  They are available in square, wood
    frame panels with plastic mesh.  The panels are hinged and can be
    shaped to form a free-form enclosure.  The frame can be screwed to a
    wall if you wish.
    
    My friend Sue used one to enclose her Basset Hound.  He chewed through
    the mesh, but I'm sure your child won't. -:)
    
    Check Toys R Us or the large discount department stores.

    
    It sounds like a similar problem with access to our stairs.  The
    bottom of the stairs has rails on both sides - so we opted for a piece
    of plywood that was tall enough but adults/older kids could step over.
    [Not too attractive!]
    
    At the top we used a gate from the pet store - it was the sliding steel
    mesh kind with no screws, just springs  - we still have the railnet up too,
    our kids like to throw toys/etc. through the slats.
    
    One of the more important rules at our house for everybody -
    	"We don't play on the stairs"
    
    Rochelle