Conference moira::parenting_v3

    
    Well, maybe peer pressure will persuade your child to try new things.
    
    My daycare center doesn't provide lunch, thus gives parents more
    control over the children's diet. But, when my daughter was in a home
    care situation, she ate what she was served because she was hungry!
    And she tried new things because the other kids were eating them.
    As long as she was well fed, I didn't want to bring up the
    question "So, did you like what had for lunch?" since I knew I
    might get myself into trouble!!!
    
    
    Eva. 

    We're talking about the kid that preferred calmari in red sauce at 10
    months old over anything else. He's rarely fussy and knows he must try
    a bite of everything (house rule!!!). I just think he's got more
    "sophisticated" tastes because I make sure our foods are home cooked
    and not premade. I think I just have to accept that there are different
    styles of what you feed children and the interpretation of "quality"
    foods. 
    
    Thanks,
    Andrea 

    Andrea,
    
    Before I put Eric in the daycare center, I visited few centers 
    provide "hot and healthy" lunch.  And I really didn't like the
    menus at all.  We are talking about feeding a 15 months old,
    hot dogs, canned chicken soups, canned spaghetti, etc., which
    are full with preservatives and salt.  Therefore, I ended up
    put Eric in a center that provides no lunch only snacks.  I
    still don't like every snacks they offered, but at least I
    have control over his meals.  You should be happy that
    your son prefers home-made instead of canned food.  If you
    don't like the menu, maybe you should provide lunches (if the
    center allowed) for the days that they serve junk food.
    
    Wendy

    
    Hi,
    
    	I know for a fact that my provider (home licensed day care)
    gets re-imbursed for some of the food she feeds the kids.  A percentage
    perhaps?  Anyway, it has to be wholesome food.  Not junk.  She can't
    get the re-imbursement on more than 1 package of cookies/week and
    stuff like that.  Fruit/veggies all she wants, but not the other
    stuff.  As a result, the kids generally get very good food and snacks.
    
    	If your home day care is not licensed, they're not entitled
    to that benefit.  Therefore, the provider may be more likely to
    give them "inexpensive" food.  Although spagetti and home-made sauce
    is less expensive than the canned stuff.  Anyway, my $.02 ----
    
    
    						jean

>    Anyway, it has to be wholesome food.  Not junk.  She can't

However, remember that the word "wholesome", or whatever term is used in the 
regulations, is likely to be defined by some governmental agency, and may 
differ markedly from what your personal definition of the same term.  For 
example, one of the previous noters indicated that she didn't like for her 
child to get canned spaghetti and canned soup.  I would be very surprised if 
either of those items were excluded from the list.  Remember it wasn't all 
that long ago that "ketchup" was almost defined as a vegetable.

So if you have strong feelings about what your child should or should not eat 
(or if your child has allergies or some medical diet restrictions), and if 
your feelings differ markedly with the daycare provider's, then you don't have 
much choice other than providing your child's own lunch.

As for the issue brought up by the base noter, I would feel comfortable 
bringing likes or dislikes to the daycare provider's attention, but not 
objecting to a particular food because my child just doesn't like it.  I would 
only feel comfortable _objecting_ if I felt the food was unwholesome, however 
recognizing that there may be legitimate differences of opinion on some stuff 
such as canned spaghetti or pre-sweetened Cheerios, for example.

I also think that "hot" meals may be overrated.  Remember "hot" is not a 
synonym for "wholesome".  

Clay

    
    Andrea:
    
    Most of our meals at home are "home cooked", too, and ideally, it would
    be nice if JA had 3 home cooked meals a day, however, I'm not sure
    that's realistic, so the rule of thumb I use (which pretty much follows
    the same philosphy my mother raised us on!) is:
    
    .  JA's guaranteed to eat MOST of her meals at home (at least two a
       day) ... so that only leaves 5 meals a week which may not reach
       my expectations.
    
    .  Eatting at the sitters does open new food horizons for JA.  She
       never liked juice until she "learned" to like it at the sitters!
       I saw juice as an unnecessary sugar-additive with 10% (at best)
       fruit, so I never pushed the issue ... obviously, the sitter serves
       it and JA drinks it.  Also, JA avoided many of our
       table-finger-foods ... yet now, she'll eat ANYTHING!  You couldn't
       pay me ANY price to cook liver, yet she tanked up on it at my
       mother's house!
    
    .  I group hotdogs, grilled cheese, canned spagetti, macaroni/cheese,
       peanut butter sandwiches, Campbell's soup, etc. etc.  all in the
       same "fast food" category, BUT I doubt it's going to hurt JA to eat
       it five times a week ...  so go for it!  (I think kids typically
       LOVE this stuff anyway!)
    
    .  I won't deny that I haven't tossed JA a hotdog from the Dairy Queen
       (now those dogs ARE gross!!!) occasionally or a slice of pizza.
       She likes it and I know it's not "the norm" and an occasional
       DQ dog won't hurt her.
    
    I guess I'm trying to say that I, too, would like JA to eat 3 healthy
    home cooked meals a day ... but it's not realistic!  And an occasional
    DQ dog is still better than two popsicles ... or skipping the meal
    entirely ... or ... or ...
    
    And some things I would NEVER cook!
    
    Dottie
    

    BTW, pizza is considered by a surprisingly large number of nutritionist
    type people to actually be a "good" food. Particularly if its not
    loaded with greasy stuff, like sausage and pepperonis. They recommend
    low-fat part-skim mozzarella cheese, and lots of vegies on it. You then
    have the crust (which is basically just flour and water), tomato sauce,
    and cheese and vegies. Not a lot to find fault with there! So, go for
    it! (gotta agree about those DQ hot dogs, tho.... :-( )
    --dave--

    One of "those" mothers signing in (you know, the ones that give their
    kids spaghetti-os, canned soup, and occasionally macaroni and cheese
    from a box - GASP!).  Don't get me wrong, these are not my first
    choices of things to feed him, but I sometimes I find my time and
    imagination lacking.   I *do* limit the prepared foods to one per meal...
    for example, macaroni and cheese + fresh fruit + steamed veggies.
    
    Now, I'd guess that most of your children are capable of eating
    almost anything from the table (i.e. they have most of their teeth and
    can chew proficiently) which isn't true for me.   This is kind of off 
    the subject, but I'm interested in knowing what people consider to be 
    "good, nutritious meals and snacks" that can be prepared in a reasonable 
    (read: QUICK!) amount of time.  Do you really serve home-cooked meals 
    at lunch?   (I was really surprised, Dottie, that you don't think fruit 
    juice is good - even the 100% juice, no corn syrup, no fructose stuff???)
    
    Help me serve better food, please!
    
    Thanks,
    Carol

>recognizing that there may be legitimate differences of opinion on some stuff 
>such as canned spaghetti or pre-sweetened Cheerios, for example.

    If you read the labels, you'll find that Cheerios are lower in
    sugar than just about anything else on the shelf, including
    several brands that advertise themselves as health cereals.
    
    Peanut butter, mentioned on somebody else's junk food list, is
    also good if you get the unsalted kind.  (Also check that it
    doesn't have sugar added. I've found that the generic  brands are
    usually MUCH better than the famous name brands.)  I don't have
    the nutrients handy but it's a good source of protein and B
    vitamins, among other things, and no cholesterol.  Try smoothing
    it out with pureed fruit if you're cutting down on refined sugar,
    and put it on whole grain bread. 
    
    --bonnie

    When I feel like making a real easy breakfast for us, I make sure there's 
    plenty of yogurt around.  I put it on oatmeal toast, (Andrew likes the
    taste and I prefer it to butter on his toast) and I put yogurt on 
    pancakes (instead of goopy syrup - I save the syrup for me!).  All the
    flavors take us a long way.  Sometimes I mix alot of yogurt up on his
    cereal (oatmeal or rice) with a touch of milk and he thinks it's just 
    "heavy" yogurt.  He seems to like it alot.  And don't forget, if all
    else fails, break out the Cheerios!
    
    For fast dinners I take steamed veggies (or veg-all if I don't have the
    fresh stuff) and I mix it with some meat (sometimes all chopped up or
    sometimes ground up).  Sometimes the meat is "just cooked" or a left
    over from last night.  As long as there's some kind of "taste" I can
    get by.    Sometimes it just steamed veggies and potatoes.
    
    One thing I just discovered that Andrew loves, it Gazpacho, my homemade
    version.  It's just yellow squash, carrots, celery, tomatoes,
    cucumbers, etc. all chopped up fine in the food processor (do each
    veggies separately because it takes longer to chop a carrot than to
    chop a cucumber and you don't want your cucumber too soupy!) then throw
    them all in a big bowl and add a big bottle or Tomato Juice or Salt
    free V-8.  Serve it up cold and its pretty tasty (you can add the
    jalapeno or tabasco to the individual servings).  It keeps for a few
    days and is pretty nutritious.
    
    When I'm really at a loss for meal ideas, I give him scrambled eggs with a 
    touch of ketchup and toast (sometimes the eggs go on the toast).
    It all really depends on our mood.
    
    I'm not that imaginative in the kitchen, so my son's meals tend to be
    the usual kinds of things just served up in different (simple) ways.
    
    
    Nancy
    

    My pediatrician recommends pizza as a very nutricious food - just avoid
    the fatty meats on top.
    
    Also, did you know peanut butter is about 75% FAT?  Perhaps not so bad
    for growing children who can use the fat for energy, but for moms who
    clean up after the kids by "finishing" up their leftovers (come on now,
    'fess up :*} ) a little bit on the fattening side!
    

    
    Carol:
    
    Not sure "when or why" I changed my attitude about juice ... 
    
    Jim/I used to drink a glass every other day (or so)... and then when 
    we got JA, she made it very plain "right up front" she didn't want it 
    unless it was formula or "plain water".
    
    Maybe I started justifying JA's choice as being "one of good
    judgement" (... after I started reading the label(s):  10% fruit
    juice, artificial sweeteners, sugar, preservatives, etc. etc.)?????
    
    Now it's rare that I buy juice ... except my teenage niece spent the
    weekend with us and bought some "passion fruit juice" (of sorts!) ...
    JA drinks it, but I probably wouldn't have bought it "just for JA"!
    
    JA's now into finger foods ... no baby food ... and wants a spoon
    (can't use it, but needs a spoon in her left hand while her right hand
    is stuffing her face!).
    
    She LOVES scrambled eggs, string beans, peas, diced (cooked) carrots,
    boiled potatoes, chili mac (small macaroni's), hotdogs, KIX cereal,
    crackers ... just about anything which is "bite-size" and easily
    chewable ... along with smashed fresh peaches, applesauce, popcorn,
    icecubes, etc. (to name a few!) Unfortunately, she's allergic to 
    yogurt (but loves it!) -- can't digest it for some reason.  This is
    her lunch menu!!
    
    For dinner, she pretty much eats what we eat ... diced up, of course!
    It's usually a little more nourishing (or at least appears so!).
    
    JA was the BIG_"1" this past Sunday and at yesterday's "yearly" Pedi
    checkup the doctor did say to "try p'nut butter"!!!  He also said she's
    "DEFINATELY a toddler" now!  She's got Jim/I "just where she wants us"!
    Pedi told us we have to "harden up a little" ... 
    		BUT IT'S SO HARD SOMETIMES!!!
      
    I still see her as "Mommy's little baby" and she plays it for the full
    nine yards!  But for her sake, we must get tougher ...  I'll just have
    to open up a few more boxes of Kleenex (and cry with her!).
    
    Dottie
    

    Juice composition varies greatly.  If you don't want the corn syrup,
    look for "100% juice" - the ones we use are Mott's (or Lincoln)
    apple juice, Dole's Pure -n- Light Peach Orchard, and Welch's 
    100% White Grape Juice.   You have to be careful because there
    are alot of juices that are only 10% juice as you pointed out,
    Dottie. (for example, all of the OceanSpray Cranberry stuff)
    Jason didn't like juice until the weather heated up and then he
    needed extra fluids without the bulk of formula/milk.  He drinks
    both water and fruit juice.   I bring juice, crackers, etc. to his
    sitter's each week so that I can be sure he is getting what I'd 
    like him to have.
    
    Carol
    
    P.S. Happy 1st Birthday to JA!

    Usually if it's not the real thing it will say "drink" in smaller
    letters, like "REAL FRUIT JUICE drink".  
    	Linda

    Agreed, Linda.   And...100% natural doesn't seem to mean anything
    either.

    re: .14, .15, .16
    
    That's right, 100% natural has no defined meaning at all. 
    
    The Dole Pure-and-Light juices come in several flavors -- our
    favorite is mountain cherry.  Other brands we've tried and liked
    include Apple and Eve (very good unsweetened apple juice blends)
    and Veryfine (unsweetened orange, grapefruit, and apple juices,
    among others, but read the labels VERY CAREFULLY because they
    pile sugar into some other flavors.)
    
    --bonnie

    re.17
    
    Bonnie, is VeryFine a "juice" or a "drink".  I only bought it once or 
    twice because I went to buy it another time and I thought I read
    "drink".  I could be mistaken, but does anyone know what it really is?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Nancy                           

VeryFine is a brand name.  They sell both juices and juice drinks.  Read
the label to see which you are getting.


Do be aware that many 100% juice drink blends (eg. Juicy Juice) are loaded
with sweet juices such as passionfruit, and being one of the "sugar is sugar"
people, I see very little nutritional difference between a product whose
sugar is from fructose (fruit sugar) or sucrose (cane/beet sugar).

I'd rather my son drink milk, with juice as an occasional treat.  He does
get raw fruit regularly.

					Steve

    re: .18
    
    Yes, VeryFine makes many kinds of juices and juice drinks and you
    have to read their labels very carefully.  I'm sorry I wasn't
    clear about that. 
    
    The principle I use isn't just "does it have sugar" or "does it
    have fat" -- practically everything does, whether it's natural or
    added -- but "am I getting nutritional value for the sugar or fat
    I'm consuming?  What else -- perservatives and so on -- that's not
    good am I getting?"
    
    I make one switch or tradeoff at a time.  For instance, quite some
    time ago I switched from oil-pack to water-pack tuna.  I'm getting
    the same protien values, but without the added fats.  We switched
    from packaged luncheon meats, high in salt and preservatives, to
    peanut butter -- it's high in fat, as all nuts are, but it's
    loaded with protein, niacin, and I think thaimine, and there's no
    cholesterol.  I think most of the fat is unsaturated, though I'll
    have to look that one up to check it.  
    
    Similarly, we don't use fruit juice as a substitute for fresh
    fruit but rather as a substitute for colas and other sweet drinks
    with no nutritional content at all.  We often dilute it with water
    to make "juice-ade" without the extra sugar. 
    
    In general I'm more concerned about getting preservatives out of
    our diet and reducing the fat content to about 30% of calories
    than I am about cutting sugar, which is a carbohydrate.  I figure
    if I can migrate our diet from fats to carbohydrates of any kind,
    I can then migrate the simple carbohydrates to complex ones.  
    
    --bonnie

    My thoughts are that consumers have had quite an impact on how things
    are manufactured!  For anything you can buy with sugar, there has to be
    two more made WITHOUT!  Motts make regular applesauce, with sugar and
    "natural" made without sugar and is plenty sweet.
    
    Someone mentioned Veryfine brand.  They do make pure juices mostly, but
    do make the "drinks" with little or no juice most sugar and artificial
    preservatives.  They used to make applesauce, with and without sugar
    but I understand that is no more.
    
    Just FYI, for those in the 495 area, Veryfine has a factory outlet
    store in Littleton that opens at 8am, and LOVES to see DECies, and know
    quite well what a DCU check looks like.  I do a "Juice run" every few
    months, you can get the "salvage" (seconds) for almost a steal.  Too
    bad I can't get applesauce anymore.
    
    As for good things, AJ's favorite breakfast is oldfashion oatmeal mixed
    with "natural" applesauce in cool weather, and Yogurt seems to be a
    great holdover until dinner is ready at night.  If you ask him what he
    wants for supper it's usually either chicken-nuggets & french fries or
    macaroni and cheese.  (but we usually win out with something like meat,
    veggies and baked or boiled potatoe)
    
    Lyn
    
    

    Our home day care provider serves real nice meals...we
    should cook as well here at home!  She posts the menu
    everyday.  And often it has things that our kids wouldn't
    touch.  And....they usually eat every bite.  Somehow, away
    from home, they'll eat almost anything.
    bob