Conference moira::parenting_v3

   Hooo boy. Barbara, you are certainly more brave than I.  I'm not
   sure I would have started a topic like this...  :-)
   
   Anyway, no answers, just suggestions...
   
   o Both partners of the couple should be involved in the decision if
     at all possible.  This will certainly avoid hard feelings later.
   
   o You may want to use the "Ben Franklin Close" to help your
     decision process.  That is, make a 2-column list, one side is all
     the reasons to go back, the other side is all the reasons to stay
     home.  This will give you a good idea of what you're up against,
     and will also force you to verbalize all the things you are
     feeling/thinking about this stuff.

   o Be aware that, as you surely know, many of the responses you will
     get are based on U.S. culture and society.  These may or may not
     be applicable in the U.K.

   o Above all, do what is right for YOUR FAMILY.  While most people
     mean well when giving advise, they are probably not prepared to
     pay your bills or care for your family.  This is a decision that
     must be YOURS, not ours or friends or extended family or anybody
     else, really.
   
   Peace,
   
   - Tom
   

    You wont know how you feel about staying home with your baby until you
    have stayed home with your baby.  Try to give yourself a long enough
    maternity leave to allow yourself flexibility re the final decision.  I
    know people who planned to go back to work after 2 months because they
    KNEW that they could never stay home with a  baby and remain sane. 
    They haven't worked for years.  Others who planned to be earth mother
    returned to work after several months.
    
    Most people have no choice for financial reasons.  If you have to
    return to work, I think that you should try to stay home for as long as
    you can - 6 months anyway.  Then return to work part time - like 3 days
    a week - every other day.  You can't imagine the logistics involved in
    getting an infant off in the morning.  Getting home at night is almost
    as bad.
    

    Barbara,
    
    Thats your decision you WILL make after your baby is born.  I think
    everyones opinions will be a little differant.  When I had Joey in
    7/12/89 I was so glad not to be working and home with my son.  My
    husband wanted me to take off 6 mo. to a 12 mo..  Well, eventually
    I went back to work when Joey was 4 mo.  My friends mom takes care
    of him full-time.  When I went back to work I missed him so much,
    I called everyday for the first 2 weeks, went to visit him during
    my lunch, etc.  Then a few months past.  I am a contract so I was
    out of work for a few weeks.  But it was so differant I felt like
    I WANTED TO go back to work, It's like you need that break.  My
    husband would come home and You just about talke all baby talke
    during the day that you need to be with adults as well.  I do
    miss hime a lot during the day, Come time for weekends and Weeknights
    I am so happy to spend all my time with him and my husband.  But
    by sunday night can't wait to go back to work for Monday!
    
    -Nadine
    

    I am the total opposite of Nadine in .3. I had 2 kids in 2 years
    and I really wanted to stay home with both, but could not for financial
    reasons. Now I think I would like to work part time. For me it would
    be ideal as I would have more time with the kids, and a bit of time
    with my peers so I wouldn't go bonkers. But, if I couldn't find
    part-time work, I would stay home in a heartbeat! I'd start projects
    to keep me from getting down. Or if I had a neighbor with kids,
    I'd swap off a few days a month so I could go out occasionally.
    
    Now that we are relocating to PA there is a good chance I will get
    to do that...probably work part time.
    
    Good luck with your decision. But I think it's a hard one to make
    before the baby is born. I know a few people who wanted to go to
    work after, and changed their minds abruptly upon the birth of the
    baby.
    
    Dot
    

    Would you accept a reply from a dad? My wife is a full-time mom. It was
    a mutual decision, which by the way, I wholeheartedly think is the best
    way to make this decision. Any dissension on this between mom and dad
    needs to be ironed out very smoothly, or when troubles come down the
    pike (and they will, no matter which way you decide), there will be
    great tension between mom and dad. This benefits no one. (by way of
    explanation, about what I mean by "trouble": 1) stay-at-home mom  -- 
    "I need some cooperation around here!...I need some adult time and some
    alone time!" Well, *You're* the one who wanted to stay home....., or 2)
    working mom --- "I need some cooperation around here!...I can't be
    expected to do *2* full time jobs...mothering and an outside job! Well,
    *you're* the one who wanted to go back to work....) For us, it was an
    "easy" choice...we both agreed to make the financial sacrifices that go
    with only one income in Massachusetts :-(, and we both agreed that it
    would be mom's "career" to raise the kids. She did work for one
    marathon day a week (12 hours) from when our youngest was 1 til our 2nd
    was 4 mos...then we moved to massachusetts and she did not go back to
    an outside job. We have the advantage that she can work outside for a
    very small # of hours, if we both diecide on this...she is an
    Occupational Therapist, and can get well-paid consulting work, almost
    anytime she wants for about 10-12 hours per *month* (well-paid=$30-$40 an
    hour). We choose not to. Three kids, the oldest just turning five next
    week, is a full-time job in and of itself.
       But....I would fiercely defend any woman's right to make that
    choice! You *MUST* do what is best for you, your husband, your family.
    May I offer a piece of advice? Whatever you decide, *don't* burn your
    bridges behind you!!! You may decide you are absolutely positive you
    never want to work again...and then find you can't stand being home
    full-time. If you've out and out quit, you can't go back. The reverse
    is a little easier, but don't make irreversible committments. If you
    carve it in stone that you'll go back in 6 months, and simply can't
    live with that, you'll feel miserable. You'll either compromise what
    you need and want (and loathe it), or renege on your agreement to go
    back, which leaves many hard feelings. Leave those options open!
    An observation my wife has made over the years, which strikes me as
    having great validity. Here in the US, it is "standard" to have 6 weeks
    maternity leave (although many women opt for and extended leave). When
    you are nearing the end of your pregnancy, 6 weeks might as well be 6
    decades! It seems like *such* a long time...because your perspective on
    time right now is in the context of waiting for that due date...and
    that makes time move soooooo slowly. 6 weeks seems an eternity, and you
    may feel sure that you'll be ready to go back in 6 weeks. But...the 6
    weeks after birth go by in the blink of an eye. it's barely time to get
    hormonal levels back to a semi-normal state. You're jsut beginning to
    feel like a competent parent, you're just beginning to get over the
    profound tiredness that accompanies birth/first few weeks...and you're
    just beginning to really fall in love with that beautiful baby! And
    then, bam, its time to leave it for 8 hours a day. I've observed this
    is too much for most women *at this time*. Give it longer than 6 weeks
    (a *lot* longer, IMO).
    The idea of a pro and con list is excellent...I would suggest that you
    and your hubby do one individually, and then compare them. You may be
    surprised at the differences, and may point up potential weak spots to
    work on, whichever option you choose. 
    We feel that a parent is best able to nurture, love, and instill in
    their child the values that they esteem. We feel that, particularly in
    the area of teaching a child right from wrong, how to behave, and what
    your value system is and *why*, no one can do a better job than you
    can, and the first few years of their lives are the most crucial ones
    ever for this. Just our opinion.....no slams, judgements, etc.
    intended! If you're comfortable with what you choose, then you're child
    will likely grow up very well adjusted, loved...in short...just fine!
    Good luck with a tough decision!
    
    --dave--                     
    

    Barbara,
    
    Such a difficult decision.  I had planned even before my pregnacy
    to return to work soon after the baby was born.  I was initially
    intending to take the maximum time that Digital would allow but
    because I went on maternity leave early, our financial situation
    prompted my return a little sooner.  After being on leave for about
    six months (the baby was 3 months old) I was more than READY to
    return to work.  Not that I don't love my son dearly but I really
    missed being a "professional".  Yes, I liked being a mommy, too
    but was ready to return to making decisions other than formula,
    diaper, sleep, etc.  I also missed the adult conversation.  Also,
    no matter what anyone says, IMHO, newborns are pretty boring little
    people.  I could never even think that of my now 14 month old son-he
    keeps me fascinated for hours.  I said when I first came back to
    work that I wished you could come back immediately following the
    birth and then take your parental leave when the baby was about
    6 months old.  Oh, what I would have given to take six months off
    around my son's first birthday!!  Financial considerations were
    a big factor in our house.  We had even talked of my husband being
    a "househusband" as I'm the primary income source but decided neither
    one of us were cut out to stay home.  Our initial daycare situation
    did not work out well at all and it made working a very uncomfortable
    situation.  When Josh was 5 months old we found the "right" care
    for us, and it has made a world of difference just knowing we can
    go to work and not worry about our son.
    
    Good luck in your decision, and really try to consider all of your
    options and resources before committing yourself to a hard and fast
    decision.  I kept in very close contact with my manager while I
    was on leave and let him know exactly what was going on so that
    he knew what to expect, which also helped my transition back into
    work easier.
    
    Pam 
    

    
    re.0
    
    	I have a 5 yr old and am expecting the second in 5 weeks.
    I am an engineer at DEC and I enjoy my work. I work for my
    own sanity! Money is not an issue, we can always make do with less. 
    
	 We don't have a lot of friends or relatives that stay home. 	
    My husband and I both agree that it was better off for my daughter 
    to be in daycare (to be with other kids).
    
    	I took off 3 months with my daughter,  I was going up the walls
    towards the end. Things didn't get done around the house, I lost my
    motivation, I lost track of time, I felt isolated, I felt trapped. 
    Going back to work was a relief.
    I am going to take off similar amount of time this time around.
    
    	Good reliable daycare is essential. We have been very lucky so
    far. 
    
    	Life can be hectic when both parents work. But I "perform" 
    much better under little bit of pressure and I am good at doing 
    a lot of things in parallel. I can have laundry going, tomato sauce 
    simmering, meat marinating lawn mowing and keeping an eye on my 
    duaughter at the same time. 
    
    So, it depends on your personality, you and your husband's belief's,
    your child, your career goal, etc. Everyone is different. 
    Do what is right for you.
    
    Eva.

    Before I had my baby, I considered myself to be a seasoned
    professional who could never survive as a full-time stay-at-home
    mom.  I would always have a career.

    After my baby was born, I thought I could spend every waking hour
    for the rest of my life just playing with this wonderful person.  
    I could have 6, 7, even 8 children if they were all as wonderful 
    as this one.   I would love to be a full-time stay-at-home mother.
    Who needs a career anyway?

    After 3 months at home with my baby, I thought I would land
    in a loony farm if I didn't get to do something besides change
    diapers, sing lullabies, and clean the house.  I missed my job.

    My first day back at work I cried on and off all day.  I missed
    my baby (who was four months old).  And I felt like a terrible 
    mother for leaving her with a perfect stranger who I had only
    spoken to a half dozen times during interviews.

    I have been back at work part time for two weeks now - and I 
    *think* working 3 days a week is the right choice for me.  At
    least, it's the right choice for me today.

    

    I returned to full time work when my daughter was four months
    old. I felt all the ambivalence expressed throughout these
    notes, and still do after eight months, but know I've made 
    the right choices -- Sarah is flourishing with the stimulation 
    of other children in daycare and one more loving adult (her childminder)
    and I'm happy to have the chance to go to work and relax.
    (childcare is harder work than work!)
    
    But, I know I'll continue to be of two minds, always, because
    this is a compromise solution. It must be the rare parent
    that is 100% contented with her/his daily arrangement,
    because that arrangement *always* contains hard work, juggling,
    and flexibility.
    
    Best of luck with your many, ongoing, decisions --
    Barbara

    The one thing I did wrong about making a decision about when I would
    return to work (I knew I could not stay at home all the time) was that
    I committed to my manager prior to even having the baby. Knowing I
    didn't want to stay home full-time and for financial reasons, I did
    needed to return to work but my commitment was that I would come back 6
    weeks after the due date. In retropsect I wish I didn't make any
    commitment that I actually felt aweful going back on. Consequently, I
    think I went back to early, especially with my first. But, I survived
    it emotionally. 
    
    I'm pregnant with my second now and I am really making no absolute
    commitment but, again, financially I will need to go back ASAP. We work
    in England and still support our original life in the States as well -
    we cannot afford even a week extra off at this time. Who knows what the
    next 5 months will hold so I am not making any firm commitments unless
    it will whole-heartedly be a missed career opportunity or a desperate
    financial requirement and I'm not making them until I get close to the
    end.
    
    I think we each weigh our financial, emotional and career requirements
    based on the exact situation at that time. Each variable is weighted
    according to our own priorities and you should really listen to your
    own "heart" when making any decision. 
    
    Good luck in arriving at your decision. It isn't easy.
    Andrea                                                

    Thanks for all your replies so far.  One other possibility I had
    thought about which would enable me to stay at home and earn some money
    was to take the child minding course, get my certificate and then if I
    am at home with one, I might as well look after another 2 as well and
    get paid.  One thing I did forget to mention is that I don't qualify
    for maternity leave with Digital, so I only have to give them a leaving
    date.  I was thinking of 'temping' if I do decide that I want to go
    back to work.
    
    At the moment in my heart of hearts I would like to be a full time mom,
    however, your replies echo the advice I have been given by others eg.
    by 3-6 months I couldn't wait to go back to work.  I know this decision
    is one that I am not going to make until after the baby is born, but it
    is nice to hear other peoples views before hand.
    
    Barbara
    
    ps.  My husbands input.... 'You do whatever you feel happiest doing'.
                          .... 'I'll support you whatever you decide'.
    

    If I don't work, we don't have medical insurance.  We really need
    my income and my medical/dental benefits.  So I am working out of
    necessity.
    
    I took 2 weeks off before James was born, and had 8 weeks after
    because he was a cesarean delivery.  Then I took off an additional
    four weeks -- but the first week, I went to work one day, then
    two days the week after that, three days the next weeek, and full
    time the last week of the month.  This was my cost center manager's
    idea, and I will always be grateful to her for her sensitivity.  It
    made the transition so much easier! -- By this time, James was three
    months old, he was sleeping through the night and taking two decent
    naps a day (occasionally a third one when he got home from day care!).
    
    My neighbor takes care of him, and so far we've been pretty darn
    lucky -- I've woofed about Elaine in this file, but essentially,
    she's very good with James and we consider ourselves pretty lucky
    to have her for a caregiver.  I drop James off in the morning, Mike
    picks him up in the afternoon at 4:30.  If he can't make it, I leave
    work early, one of his nieces picks the baby up, or I arrange for
    a neighbor to do so.
    
    The point of all this rambling is, if you are going to go back to
    work, you have to have reliable day care and reliable back-up people.
    Plus your spouse/SO has to back you up in your decision.  This means,
    whoever gets home first picks up the baby, starts dinner, folds
    laundry, etc. Some couples find it easiest to make up a list of the
    chores that need to be done every week and split the list between
    them, according to each one's interests/abilities.  Mike hates to
    do dishes, for example, so that's my job.  But he gets home from
    work an hour before I do, so he starts dinner.  You see my point.
    
    Benefits of working outside the home can include (this is not a
    complete list):
    
    o  More money
    o  Personal autonomy 
    o  Health benefits (where this applies)
    o  CHild gets the opportunity to be with other children/adults in
       day care -- some kids socialize better because of this
    o  Occasionally results in better relationship between couple --
       worries about $$, for example, often lessen.
    
    Disadvantages include tiredness, feeling cheated because you feel like
    you never spend enough time with spouse/SO and kids, feeling like there
    isn't enough time in the day for yourself, for housework, etc. 
    Occasionally, because there is extra money coming in, you find
    yourselves spending it on takeout meals because you're too damn tired
    to cook!!
    
    Again, .0, this is a decision only you and your spouse can make.  I now
    feel a lot better about working full-time outside the home.  I feel
    that I'm helping my husband provide for our family, and that makes me
    feel like I'm holding up my end of the marriage bargain.  Because I
    work, we have medical and dental insurance, so I don't need to worry
    (not to much anyway! :-)) if one of us gets sick, God forbid.  My son
    is in a caring day care environment, and between us and Elaine, he's
    turning into a pretty nice little boy.  My salary doesn't mean that
    we hav everything we want.  I like to think, however, that it means
    that we have everything we need.
    
    God bless you as you wrestle with this very difficult decision.
    
    Kate
      
    

I have felt what most of the previous replies have said.  I too could never
picture myself a full-time mom, and I confirmed that on my maternity leave.
I was climbing the walls and going stir crazy - I wanted to be depended on
for more than diapers, runny nose, cuddling, etc., I really needed a mental
challenge.

HOWEVER.... Kati's first several days in daycare were very difficult.  The
day I walked in with Kati and walked out with empty arms (first time in 8
weeks) was just awful.   But now after seeing all of the activities they have
for her, I know that I am just not cut from that mold - I could never dream
up all of the creative things they do that both entertain and teach her.  It
really takes a special aptitude for that, and much more patience than I have.

Although I know I made the right decision for myself, I still have a hard time
going to malls for lunch.  Every time I see a mom (or sometimes dads) strolling
around her little one, I long for mine too.

Kristen

    I went back to work right after Eric was born (only took 6 weeks
    of maternity leave).  I did it not because we needed money, but for
    myself.  I just cann't be a full-time mom.   Plus, my mother-in-law
    was here taking care of Eric.  Therefore, going back to work
    was a break for me, I felt really comfortable leaving Eric home.
    Then, things changed.  When Eric was 4 months old, my mother-in-law
    left.  I had to start Eric at daycare.  Boy, it was hard.  I felt
    guilty all day, couldn't concentrate on my work at all.  This 
    feeling finally went away by finding the right caregiver for Eric.
    
    I am expecting my second in 6 weeks.  This time we won't have any
    relatives to help us out.  I have decided to take at least 3 months
    off, and will not come back to work until I find the right care
    for baby.
    
    I do like my job, but unless I found quality care for my children,
    I don't think I will enjoy my job and probably will not perform
    well on my job either.
    
    Wendy

    Another husband heard from :')- My wife is a stay at home mom.  She had
    worked all of her adult life, and was a "professional" (that word
    bothers me for some reason-maybe because it's overused).  When we had
    Genna (our first) she was unable to stay at home for financial reasons. 
    After Lauren (#2) she quit work.  It has been basically a positive
    experience for her and our family.  Things aren't nearly as hectic on
    the home front, which gives us more time for family building as opposed
    to keeping the house together.  
    
    My wife has taken up some volunteer work so as she can get some adult
    involvement as this is something that is definitely needed.  It's
    worked well for us, but as everyone has pointed out, you have to do
    what is best for your family.  
    
    One more thing: In this notes conference, you are not getting the
    feedback from the moms who are at home now, so you may not be getting
    all the information you need.  
    
    Mike

I also agree with many of the previous noters - it's hard to make this decision
until after the baby is born.

I returned to work, part-time, when Cory was 5 1/2 months old.  Now, 5 months
later, I'm still working part-time and both my husband & I are very happy with
my decision.

Cory gets lots of love & attention from his provider, as well as a chance to
interact with lots of other kids.

I get a chance to interact with adults as well as the gratification from my job
(& a paycheck).

I wanted to add a few comments about the transition back to work.  It's very
difficult to leave your child the first time.  I found that my transition was
made easier by a VERY understanding manager & sympathetic co-workers.  My
manager told me that anytime I needed to leave to see the baby - to just go.
While I didn't do that often, just knowing that I could eased my mind !

Good luck with your decision !

- Terry

    The factors for me were almost entirely personal.  Generally the
    kids will do fine no matter what you decide; it's most important
    that you and your spouse feel comfortable with the decision and
    the arrangements.  And just because you felt one way with one baby
    doesn't mean you'll feel the same after a second or even a third. 
    
    When Kat was born in 1973, I was unemployed like almost everybody
    else I knew (anybody remember the oil embargo and accompanying
    "recession"?) and for strictly economic reasons would have given a
    great deal to have had a job to go back to.  There were 5 adults
    and 2 babies living on my father's one salary at the time...
    
    10 years later I went straight back to work after Steven was born. 
    I took 6 weeks maternity plus one week vacation, and wished I was
    medically ready to go back sooner.  Since spouse is also a DECcie, 
    we were able to arrange a transition period in which I worked at
    home 2 days a week and he worked at home one day a week, so Steven
    only had to go to the sitter for two days.  Gradually I started
    working one more day, then Neil dropped his work at home day, and
    finally I went back full time.  It took about three months, I
    suppose, and it eased the transition for all of us.
    
    I came back refreshed despite the new-baby exhaustion, and was
    ready to put a big push into my career, which has always meant a
    great deal to me.  I'm interested in the work I do, and I love the
    strong and competent feelings of being able to challenge a
    difficult problem, figure out the solution, and carry it through.
    
    But after David was born last fall, I took the full amount of
    unpaid maternity leave I was entitled to, and wished I could have
    had more.  Medically, I could have come back to work about two
    days after he was born, but I wasn't interested in it.  I tried 
    tried to hack it full time for a while, but I'm now working 20
    hours.  It's a big improvement, but  I think I would have quit
    entirely if it hadn't been for Kat's impending college bills.  
    
    It has nothing to do with changed feelings about my career.  I
    still wish I had the time and the energy for it, and when the kids
    are solidly launched, I'll come back to it.  But now that I'm
    older I realize that everything doesn't have to be done today. 
    The career I'm involved in will still be there when I'm ready for
    to pick it back up.  And it wasn't any feeling that the kids were
    being hurt by my working.  They seemed to be doing fine.  *I* was
    the one who was hurting, so I took steps to make it easier for
    myself.  Really not very complicated, after all that explanation.
    
    --bonnie

    Well, unlike the advice of many noters, I've made up my mind ahead
    of time, and have let my managers know.  I'm going to be staying
    home when our baby comes.  For me, this is something I've longed
    to do for a long time, so it wasn't a difficult decision (although
    I admit, it was a scarey one!).
    
    A lot of the replies here mentioned the lack of adult interaction.
    I won't know until I've been at it for a while, but I'm hoping that
    won't be too much of a problem for me.  The church we attend has
    women's Bible studies during the week, and I plan to attend at least
    one.  There are also many women I know (several neighbors and several
    women in our church) who are full-time moms, and I'm looking forward
    to being able to spend more time with them.
    
    I wouldn't be doing this, though, if I didn't have my husbands full
    support (as several other noters have mentioned).  We spent a lot
    of time discussing it.  One expectation I've discovered my husband
    has is good home-cooked dinners.  That seems fair enough - I just
    hope I can develop more culinary skills than I have now!!  Another
    thing we've discussed is that if the budget gets too tight, I will
    probably provide day-care for another child.  These are things that
    I'm glad we've discussed ahead of time, so we both know where we
    stand, and have come to agreements on them.
    
    Good luck with your decision and with your baby-2-b!
    -Cathy

    If you have a support network already there for you, with
    activities you'll enjoy and people you already know and like, I
    doubt that you'll have too much trouble.  
    
    I don't have any family in the area, most of my friends I made
    through work, and only one or two of the women in my neighborhood
    stay at home even part time.  Fortunately they're the mothers of
    Steven's best friends, so staying home part time with David has
    been easier so far than it would have been when Steven was little.  
    And until I can find a liberal activist charismatic fundamentalist
    church in Nashua, I won't have a church to provide a built-in
    social life.
    
    It depends so much on what the mother's individual situation is.  
    
    --bonnie
    
    p.s. this is the second or third remark this month where someone
    wishing they knew how to cook better or more nutritious meals. 
    This is something I happen to know how to do -- would anyone be
    interested in having me post 'family cooking lessons'???

> ELMAGO::PHUNTLEY

>    Also,
>    no matter what anyone says, IMHO, newborns are pretty boring little
>    people.  I could never even think that of my now 14 month old son-he
>    keeps me fascinated for hours.  I said when I first came back to
>    work that I wished you could come back immediately following the
>    birth and then take your parental leave when the baby was about
>    6 months old.  

	You've got your wish.  I've got the "Orange Book" in front of me.  
From page 2 of PPP 4.23:
	
	"Parental - A leave provided to birth and adoptive parents for the
	purpose of bonding with new children.  Parental leave must be taken 
	within *6 months* [empahsis mine] of the birth or adoption of the child.  
	Parental leave is available to any regular emplyee who meets the 
	requirements of this paragraph."



	For me the answer was easy.  I knew before hand that I wanted to be 
back about as soon as I could be.  My manager was great.  He offered me 
part-time if I wanted, it reminded me of parental leave and so on.  I said "no 
thanks" to both.  He advised me to keep my options open.  

	What I arranged to do ahead of time was stay out my 6 or 8 weeks 
(turned out to be 8, I had a c-section), then come back 1/2 days the first week.
If that went well, I'd move up to 6 hours for a week and then decide if I needed
another week of 6 hours or if I wanted to go back to 8 hours.  The time off I 
"paid" for with vacation time.  So I still got paid for full time work.

	I had my baby.  Had 8 weeks STD.  Went back to work on a Wednesday. 
Worked 1/2 days those first three days. Worked 6 hours the next week.  The 
next week moved up to 8 hours.  

	I WAS surprised at how much I love Katie and how much I love to be with 
her.  (I wasn't much of a kid person before.)  BUT... I know myself pretty well.
I was dead on right about how stir crazy I would be at the end of the STD.  (And 
yes, I went to the mall and for walks and had plenty of projects.)  (Projects?
Are you kidding!?!?!  I had TONS of cross-stitch and knitting and woodworking 
and reading stacked up waiting to be done.  I am the Quintessential Over-
scheduler.  Who has time to do any of significant portion of that while keeping 
the house in reasonable order and a newborn clean, fed, dry and cuddled?)  

	The real surprise was Gary.  (To say that Gary was not a kid person 
would be like saying that Attila the Hun was impolite. :-) )  (Yes, Katie
was a surprise, entirely welcome now and we wouldn't have it any other way, but
a surprise never the less.)  The first week after Katie was born, Gary worked 
while my Mom stayed with Katie and I.  The next week, mom went home and Gary 
stayed home with us.  By the end of the week, he was dreading going back.  We 
talked about it and decided that if we watched our spending and sold a few 
shares of stock  so that we had an emergency fund in case our furnace blew up 
or whatever,  that we could afford to have Gary out of work for 3 months.
Gary was the first father where he worked to take a leave of absence to stay 
home with his child.  His leave started the week I went back to work. 

	Having Gary out worked VERY well.  We could afford the loss of his 
salary more than we could mine.  Leaving Katie home with Gary was not traumatic 
at all.  After all, why should it be?  He's her Daddy and just as able to take 
care of her as I am.  Gary's leave made the transition to Daycare easier in two 
respects. One, she was older (almost 5 months) when she went.  Two, I was 
already used to leaving her with someone for the whole day so I didn't have to 
deal with  "Parental separation anxiety" at the same time that I had to deal 
with the issues of working out a smooth arrangement with Daycare.  Having Gary 
home with Katie gave him (and me) confidence in his ability to take care of 
Katie if any should happen to me or even if I should just be out of town for a 
few days.  He had a chance to struggle with diapers and feeding and bathing 
without my looking over his shoulder and kibbitzing (just like I had a chance 
while I was on STD).  There is now no question of Katie's care being MY job.  
(In fact, I'd say that Gary changes about twice as many poopy diapers as I do.)   
	
	I also like the messages that this sent Katie.  Yes, I know, she was 
almost definately not aware enough of what was going on to remember but *maybe* 
she picked up a bit and certainly, we can tell her when she is older about Daddy 
staying home with her.  It's speaks pretty strongly of our committment to 
avoid gender stereotyping.  

	I know that not everyone is in the financial position to have *either* 
parent stay home with the baby or to have the male parent (if there is one) stay
home.  But for us, it worked marvelously well.  I just wanted to remind everyone
to keep that option in mind.

	Good Luck with whatever you decide!   

Tracey

	The paper yesterday had an article about the effects of working for pay
of the mental health of women.  

	I'll try to remeber to type it in, but in case it gets thrown away 
before I get to it (this WILL be the one time, Gary will notice that this is not 
today's paper and throw it out... :-) ), I'll summarize (as best as I can 
remember).

	When women started entering the workforce in large numbers in the early
70's, mental health officials expected the effect of the increased stress to be
greater numbers od women with depression and a higher suicide rate.  In fact, 
the suicide rate and the number of women with depression has DECREASED.  Studies
do in this area show that working for pay for women (especially married women)
is a powerful anti-depressant strong enough to even overcome the stress caused
by the "superwoman syndrome" that many working women experience.

Tracey
 

    FWIW...
    
    RE .15 - comment that you are not getting the stay at home mom's
    opinion...  my wife is currently a stay at home mom with Chelsea
    (age 5 1/2 months...Chelsea that is... :-).  Paula (wife) was a
    "professional" (I know, but for want of a better term..) in the
    workforce for 12 yrs (a Marketing Manager at Wang most recently).
     I asked for Paula's comments...
    
    First, we decided together that this was the kind of lifestyle change
    we could both commit to for "x"/unknown amount of time.  Paula was
    ready for a career change anyway, was not happy in her job situation,
    Wang does not offer part time, Wang was a miserable (for her anyway)
    place to go to work every day, etc....so the decision to stay at
    home was much easier.  ie, she was ready and looking forward to
    the change, and honestly, did not have a pleasant alternative. 
    This is different for many of you, in that you are in a job that
    you are truly currently committed to and enjoying.
    
    Support groups have been mentioned....VERY important.  Neither Paula
    nor I have family here (we live in Nashua, NH, I work in Marlboro
    MA).  My family is in CT/NY/FLA, Paula is from Arizona and her entire
    family lives there).  Paula has been attending the Matthew
    Thornton/Hitchcock Clinic (our HMO) New Mother's Group.  It has
    been a godsend for her!  She has met other new moms, learned lots
    of practical things about everything from breastfeeding to
    childproofing the home.  Paula has just recently started a play
    group in our home and had five other moms come to the house last
    Tuesday.  In reality, this is not so much for the kids, but for
    the moms!  Since most of her friends were from the workplace, she
    needs and is working at making other friends and so far the mothers
    group is working out good for that.
    
    The financials of living on one income is/are ... hmmmmm... intersting,
    but we planned for it as best we could and so far so good.  Instead
    of out to dinner once a week, it's once a month/6  wks and rent
    a movie on the weekends, but this is truly okay with us because
    we like being home as a family.  Probably the fact that we are older
    first time parents has something to do with this (Paula is almost
    35 and I am GULP almost 40).  We've both done our traveling, moving
    around, eating out a lot, etc, but I digress...
    
    So, to end the rambling...  Paula says it does get tedious, it has
    sometimes been difficult to come up with things to do other than
    the mall, but she is getting more and more into it and finds her
    days are generally pretty full.  She is starting to consider maybe
    something part time, but isn't sure just what, but is doing some
    thinking about it.  One of her goals has always been to do freelance
    writing, so that is an option.  The home front things get taken
    care of, so our weekends are free for outtings or veg'ing...generally,
    most errands, groceries, dry cleaning are taken care of during the
    week by Paula/Chelsea.  Makes life more enjoyable for me, I must
    admit!  Someone also mentioned volunteer work, and Paula is scouting
    that out to for the mental stimulation/adult involvement.
    
    As most everyone has said, it is a VERY personal decision...don't
    make any firm commitments till after the baby and you've been home
    a while if you can help it..
    
    Mark, Paula, and Chelsea-the-amazing-baby-of-Nashua, NH        
            

>TLE::RANDALL "living on another planet"              21 lines  22-AUG-1990 09:12
    
 >   p.s. this is the second or third remark this month where someone
 >   wishing they knew how to cook better or more nutritious meals. 
 >   This is something I happen to know how to do -- would anyone be
 >   interested in having me post 'family cooking lessons'???

    YES!  Great new topic!  Do it!  
    
    Thanks,

    Jane

    Bonnie,
    
    Yes! I'd love to read "family cooking lessons", especially if you
    can include some meatless meals. Thanks for volunteering.
    
    Lucy
    

    Okay, the next time I'm playing with my cookbooks, I'll start
    writing things down . . . anybody else is, of course, welcome to
    contribute, too.
    
    --bonnie

	Wow! I actually remembered to type this in!

Tracey

------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

                      Study: Paid Work Fights Depression
                       -- Especially for Married Women

	In the 1970's, when women began entering the work force in droves, many
experts warned that the increased stress in their lives would boost women's
already high incidence of depression.  One leading sociologist even predicted
that in a few years, women's suicide rates would jump as high as men's.

	That hasn't happened.  In fact, the latest research indicates that the
opposite is true: paid employment seems to be a powerful antidote against
depression in women, especially married women.

	While a number of studies have found this effect, the most persuasive 
evidence comes from a study of depression in 700 disables and married men and 
women.

	The two Canadian authors of this study say their population of
physically disabled people actually yields a more unbiased sample with regard
to the employment than the general population would.  That's because it 
includes a substantial number of people whose unemployment is socially
sanctioned (due to their disabilities) and personally chosen -- unlike many
women in the general population who can't find a job or have to stay home to
take care of children.  As a result, the stress of unemployment is minimized in
the disabled group ad the significance of work in alleviating stress can be
more accurately estimated.

	It is less clear why work has this effect.

	"Some people have hypothesized that women are taken more seriously at
work and not devalued as much as they are at home," Turner says.  "These are
good hypotheses, but we don't really know why work has such a positive effect 
on women." 

	Paid employment. of course also is a powerful buffer against depression
in men:  Turner found that unemployed men in his study showed higher levels of
depression than any of the women, working or not.  But perhaps because men's
self-esteem is so tied up in how well they perform on the job, work and
work-related problems are more likely to be a cause of depression in men that 
in women.  

	Work problems and related financial difficulties are a central theme 
not only in many male suicides, also in suicide-homicide cases.  Many men also
use work to avoid dealing with personal problems.  

	"You'll see men working longer hours when they're having problems,"
says Dr. Ronald Ebert, senior forensic psychiatrist at McLean Hospital.  "Work
and sports are used to avoid feeling; the idea is that you keep busy,you don't
have to feel.
 

re: 	It is less clear why work has this effect.
    
    Because you don't feel like a mooch on your hard-working husband. 
    
    If it was just the being taken seriously, volunteer work would be
    just as effective, and it's generally not.
    
    --bonnie

	Oh, I don't know,  I've heard lots of people refer to volunteer
work as so-and-so's "little project"  as if running a volunteer organization 
weren't just as hard as running a business organization.  (Harder in fact,
since must do all your influencing without the leverage of holding someone's
livelihood over their head... :-) ).

	But I agree with you, the non-mooch factor is definately present.

Tracey

Bonnie, instead of throwing recipie ideas in here how about if I adopt
you and you come to my house to cook?  Pretty please?

Liz :-).

I am currently at home with my first child, Michelle, who is 3.5 months old.
I am scheduled to return to work full-time January 2, 1991.  My boss says if I 
don't return at that time, I will have to resign.

I am very much enjoying being at home.  At first, even though I was physically 
exhausted, emotionally stirred up (from extreme highs to sadness), losing my 
memory, and in general totally messed up, I remember thinking, gosh this is 
great, everyone should take at least 6 weeks off work.  I was feeling pretty 
burned out at my job (I'm a senior software specialist with 10 years 
experience) so I needed the break.

Having had 10 years at my career makes it easy for me to justify being home.  
So I don't feel like a mooch *at all*.  Plus I'm up at the crack of dawn, (and 
a lot of times even earlier than that, not to mention the middle-of-the-night 
rousings) take care of her all day until 6 or 6:30, do my husband's shirts 
(used to take them to cleaners), clean the house (used to have a maid), cook 
more (used to eat out more), clip coupons (never did this before) and do 
everything else pretty much that I used do to before (like pay the bills).

I had no idea though before I had Michelle that I would want to stay at home 
and take care of her *as much as I do now*.  I mainly wanted the six months 
off to help me decide what to do.  My husband, Bob, also said "Honey, you do
whatever you feel comfortable with" before she was born, but it's funny how
you start to talk about more specific issues once the baby is born.  For
example, we decided since now there's a real possibility I may not return to
work, we're going to start purposely living on one income.  We don't have to
have my income, but there's no doubt it will be missed.  So that's why we've
given up the maid, etc.

I can't help feeling that I am the best person (along with my husband too of
course) to take care of my daughter.  Yes I am starting to feel a little
isolated now though.  I have no family here and the few moms I know work full 
time.  So now I've got to work on this problem.  I know there's a solution 
besides going back to work full-time myself.  I'm considering working at home 
a few hours a week just so I can keep my ties with Digital (my fellow 
employees here and this notes conference!).  And I've got to find things for 
us (Michelle and I) to do like play groups, mother's day out, etc.  I think 
that's my 'job' or 'career' now.

Someone mentioned being scared.  The week before my maternity disability
started, I felt scared.  I felt like all my friends and coworkers were going
to forget about me.  That was not the case.  We have all kept in contact.  But 
now I'm starting to get that scared feeling again if I have to resign.  That's 
partly why I'm considering the part time work.

This is so far the hardest thing I've ever had to in my life.  But I'm sure
things will work out fine with help from my husband, family, and my DEC friends.

Kyra

    Kyra,
    
    Where are you located?  This could have been written by my wife,
    Paula.  She is at home with our first child, Chelsea, who is now
    almost 8 months old.  She had spent approx 12 years in high tech
    in various marketing management positions.,(Paula not Chelsea)
    
    I told Paula what you said about giving up the maid (we too have
    done this), doing husband's shirts (ditto), clipping coupons (Paula
    called me the other day VERY exicited at saving $12 dollars on our
    weekly groceries! :), etc....
    
    We are now living one one income which is a very difficult adjustment
    especially here in New England.  We bought our current house a little
    over 2 years ago at the height of the real estate market, so have
    a pretty high mortgage, etc.  But so far, we feel it is/has been
    worth the difficulties, and we feel lucky/blessed that we are able
    to do it (live one one income) even though it is not easy.  (We
    could never understand when people said how expensive babies/children
    are...how much could such a little person cost?  :) :) :)
    
    Anyway, you are lucky to have the option of a 6 month leave and
    possible part time work.  Paula was at Wang and had no such options.
     It was a permanent break for her from Wang.  Paula has a play group
    that meets at our house once a week, and is involved in some other
    activities as well.  She is also very busy just (!) taking care
    of Chelsea and keeping the house managed.
    
    If you would like to talk to her or if you are near Nashua, NH,
    send me mail and I'll give you our phone number.  Whatever you decide,
    enjoy your time at home; they grown/change amazingly fast!
    
    Mark
    
     geattxs

    My wife Pat is staying at home with our 9-month old, Michael.  She left
    Digital after 11-1/2 years to become a stay-at-home Mom.  Though she
    had some very strong loyalties to Digital, there was no doubt in her
    mind that she wanted to stay home with our son.  She's been away from
    Digital for just over a year now, and is more convinced than ever that
    leaving was the right decision.  She and Michael adore each other, and
    I've never seen Pat happier.  I also think having his Mom home with him
    full-time has been good for Michael.  She's literally never been away
    from him for more than about 3 hours at a time, and misses him even
    when they're separated for short periods.
    
    Pat's take on her new job is that she's working longer hours than she
    ever did at Digital (about 12-15 hours a day, 7 days a week), and she
    probably works *harder* than she did at Digital, but she doesn't have
    the tremendous stress that her old job involved.  And for her the
    stress was what made the Digital job hard.
    
    We too have had to learn to live on far less money than before.  When
    we were DINKS, we just about did anything we wanted.  We had a maid,
    ate out a lot in medium-to-high-priced restaurants, bought whatever
    clothes and gadgets we wanted, and still managed to put money aside. 
    Well, Pat now cleans the house.  We still send my shirts to the
    cleaners, but only because Pat found a laundry that'll do them for 69
    cents each (her ironing time is worth more than that!).  Many of
    Michael's clothes come from resale shops, and Pat manages to dress
    him quite well for very little money.  Pat's clothing needs are far
    less now, of course, so she buys very few things.  We eat out
    occasionally, but not like we used to ... and with the Munchkin we
    usually end up at a family-type place where the bill is much lower than
    some of the fancier places we used to frequent.  One thing we don't
    spend much money on is babysitters.  The teenager across the street
    sits for us sometimes for $2.00 an hour, but we usually just take
    Michael with us when we go out.
    
    It's a very personal decision, one that each couple must make for
    themselves.  There are many pros and cons on both sides.  The important
    thing is to do what makes *you* happy.
    
    Steve

re: .31 (Mark)

Unfortunately, New Hampshire is far away from me; I'm in Indianapolis.
BTW, I've also read your topic on stay-at-home activities.

An update:  I've talked to my boss about working part-time.  He says he really 
wants me back and is very willing to work out a part-time deal with me to get 
me back.  And he wants to make me a project manager.  I think he knows I am 
wavering and is trying to entice me!  I still feel ambivalent; about 90% of me
wants to stay home and 10% wants to go back to work.  Or make that 95%-5%.

Kyra

Last night before I went to sleep I thought to myself, "If I get pregnant
again, I won't have to make this decision -- it will be made for me."

Maybe I'm trying to tell myself something???

Kyra

    Everyone who wants to come back to work part-time talks about having to
    work 30 hours to get medical insurance.  I just found out that New
    Hampshire has a state law that requires employers to provide medical
    insurance for people working 15 or more hours a week.  So if you live
    (and work?) in NH, you can get insurance at R15 or more.  News to me!!

>    Everyone who wants to come back to work part-time talks about having to
>    work 30 hours to get medical insurance.  I just found out that New
>    Hampshire has a state law that requires employers to provide medical
>    insurance for people working 15 or more hours a week.  So if you live
>    (and work?) in NH, you can get insurance at R15 or more.  News to me!!

I just read something about this somewhere (and can't remember exactly where)
but according to that note it is claimed that Digital's health scheme is
not technically insurance, even though it uses an insurance company for
administration and therefore such laws are not applicable.  Suffice it to
say that this particular noter was not happy and was going to raise the
roof!

Stuart who is fortunate indeed at not having to worry about health care
like you people south of the border.

    I remember seeing something like that.  Under J.H., Digital is self-
    insured and John Hancock is the administrator of the plan.

	Unless it is repealed (which isn't that improbable), the
	Massachusetts Universal Health Care law requires that as
	of Jan. 1, 1992 that any company with 6 or more
	employees must cover employees working 20 hours or more a
	week.

	So, as of Jan 1, 1992 in Massachusetts, Digital must offer
	health care to R20 or better.

	Eileen

    I went back to work full time after my daughter was born and never
    regretted it.   I decided to give it a try and enjoyed it.
    
    I did have the opportunity to take six months off when she was 
    six months old.  So I got the best
    of both worlds.  I am back working full time and I am expecting my
    second baby.  I would like to look into job sharing with another
    working mom.  There are two women in our building that have two kids of
    their own and are job sharing.  This to me would be the best of both
    worlds at this point of my life.
    
    All I can say is try it and go with  your own feelings.
    
    J.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

Here's an article printed in our newspaper yesterday.  The author is
T. Berry Brazelton, professor of pediatrics at Harvard Medical School
and author of several books on child-rearing from which this article was
adapted.  Ironically, the lady who takes care of my daughter gave it
to me as she knows I'm currently struggling with these emotions.

Kyra

-----     How Tragic It Is To Say, "I'm Just a Mother"     -------

	Whatever their situation, new mothers will feel a mixture of
strong emotions when contemplating going back to work.
	For the large majority of women who must work, turning a baby 
over to other caregivers is never easy.  Women who are fortunate enough
to have the choice will feel pulled in two directions.
	Those who have already been successful in the workplace before
having a child may be afraid of being placed on a "Mommy Track" if they
ask for extended leave at the time of a new baby or for flexible hours
to be with a sick child or for part-time work.
	Any yet, at the same time, they know that such arrangements will
help them mother their small children.
	Such conflict can feel extremely stressful.
	Those women who can and do choose to stay at home often feel 
stressed for different reasons.  They say to me, "When I talk baby talk
or get down on the floor to play with my child I feel I'm losing my
identity."
	When I ask why, they say, "All of my peers are off making their
careers and I'm just a mommy."
	Being "just a mother" at home is often perceived as a secondary
role for women.
	What a tragedy!  For giving up other roles to nurture a small
child is a gift to the child as well as to the parent.
	Not all women can mother best by being at home all the time.
	Even with activit children who keep them very busy, mothers
feel the urge to get out of the house and be involved in the adult world.
	These urges too can arouse guilt, but all the family is better
off when women respect their own needs.
	At present, women are often penalized in the job market if they
don't return to work as soon as possible.  And yet the first four
months are vital in cementing the future relationship of mother and baby.
	I have been working to  make parental leave into national
legislation, as it is in much of Europe.
	Any decision about working or not working must also be based on
the availability of a qualified caregiver.
	The warmth, understanding and competence of the substitute
caregiver, be it sitter, grandmother, nanny, or day-care provider, are of
deep importance.

 In re: .40
 
 I learned a good deal from Brazelton's books, and he has been working hard to
 learn how to deal with working parents.  But he hasn't been 100% successful,
 and these remarks in particular are still distinctly sexist.  Not that these
 aren't real problems for mothers.  But fathers can be equally torn by turning
 an infant over to daycare.  Certainly fathers are far more powerfully
 pressured into not taking extended childcare leaves to raise their kids; so
 much so that many of them, and Brazelton, lose track of the fact that they
 are pressured.  Nature limits to women the role of nursing.  Not so with
 nurturing, which can be performed wonderfully by fathers, or shared between
 parents and care providers.
 
 		- Bruce
 

re: .41

I agree with you that it must be just as hard for fathers!  Although my
husband doesn't understand why I am having problems leaving my 7 month
old daughter with a lady who is great (and by the way only cares for my
daughter which is a super setup).  He says he has no emotional difficulty
with this situation, especially since it's only 3 days a week from 8 am
to 3:30 pm.  So in our personal situation, it does seem as if I am having
the difficulty, not him.

Kyra

P.S.  There have been a couple of days where he has watched Michelle
instead of the babysitter and on those days, I feel all my problems
vanish!  I definitely feel that the best caregiver besides myself is my
husband.  Note that I'm not saying he's not as good as me, just that I'm
selfish and want to take care of her given the choice.

    re: .41
    
    That's certainly the case with us.  After a brief period of
    adjustment I haven't felt bothered by David's time at the sitter. 
    I trust her and since she's much more cheerful and calm than I am,
    I know it's better for all of us that I work while someone else
    takes on the nitty-gritty.  But my husband isn't happy with it,
    has adjusted his schedule to minimize the amount of time David has
    to be at the sitter, and would have taken leave if it hadn't been
    so clear that even though men have the right to take parental
    leave on paper, in practice it's not a good idea. 
    
    --bonnie

I was so glad to find/read all the replies to this note. I've never contributed 
to this file before, but have been reading it with great interest for the past 6
months (not coincidentally the amount of time that I've been pregnant with
my first...)

Although the little one isn't even born yet, I find myself doing alot of
soul searching about what life may be like after the baby comes.  I've always
been extremely career oriented: have a graduate degree and have held jobs
of increasing responsibility both before joining Digital and since (3 years
now here at DEC).  This has meant that for the past 10 years 50+
work weeks were much more the norm than 40 hour ones.  My current job has
also included a fairly large amount (30-40%) of out-of-town travel.

Obviously things will change when the baby is born.  My thoughts are much
less career oriented than they've ever been -- in fact, right now I'm 
not sure if I'll want to work full time after the baby is born (let alone
50-60 hour weeks or lots of out of town travel).  

The idea of part-time work appeals to me as possibly the best of both
worlds, but that does not seem to be an option in my current job, which
I will have been at only 1 and 1/2 years when the baby is born.  My
manager has clearly stated that she intends to hold me to the 2 year 
commitment and said that while she can't keep me from quitting DEC, she
can make sure I don't go anywhere else (within DEC).  The no-rehire policy
makes leaving seem so drastic!

BTW, I haven't had many discussions about this with her (my manager).  She
doesn't have kids and has not been particularly supportive about my
pregnancy. I had an awful 1st trimester, ended up in the hospital and on
disability for a few weeks with some travel restrictions from my Dr.  She
already told me that this 'situation' would have an effect on my PA. (But
didn't state what that effect would be exactly -- I guess that's another issue)
At certain points she has tried to push for a commitment from
me about coming back and resuming full time work/travel schedule, at other
times she implies travel may be a point of flexibility, who knows.  Right
now we are not communicating much and I've said that I expect to come back,
but that I really don't know.  I've found myself a bit afraid for my job
from time to time, so I've been trying to avoid the subject.

Enough of the boss rathole, though.

Has anyone found that a technically oriented "professional" career is one
that you can kind of 'take a break from' for a few years to concentrate
on raising small children and then return to (say, when the kids are in
school?)

Work complications aside, both my husband and I are DELIGHTED to be 
starting a family and we've discussed these issues ALOT -- he has been
very supportive and I expect that to continue no matter what choices are
made.  He is definitely a long hours workaholic type with no flexibility
in his job at the present time.  (He is a military officer which doesn't
give him much control over this own destiny at times...)

Obviously, I'de welcome any continued discussion on this topic!  At least
I know I'm not alone in these concerns, which means alot.

    -1 - sounds like you work for someone I used to work for - sounds
    JUST like her.  Off the returning to work topic for just a second,
    she can't hold your time out on disability against you on your PA.
    Someone who was in my last group was threatened with the same
    thing and according to the nurse (who was dealing w/her due to the
    disability) the manager can't legally do that.
    
    Good luck and I hope you find a job and manager within Digital
    with some flexibility who believes there is life beyond work.
    
    Donna
    
    

     re .44
    
    Wow! You are really juggling a lot!  50+ hr. weeks and lots of travel
    are pretty tough with an infant, as is dealing with an unsupportive
    boss who is pressuring you already about coming back to work.
    
    Try spending some time with a friend who has kids and see what's
    involved. That may help your thoughts and discussions with your husband
    around job juggling, travel, and daycare stuff.
    
    Separately, talk to personnel about possible leave etc, and about this
    comment on STD affecting your PA.  That seems like b.s. to me.
    
    Most importantly, realize that whatever you think before the baby is
    born is very likely to change after the baby is born. There's some
    excellent discussion in here, or perhaps V1, about women who wanted to
    stay home and very staunchly changed their minds after the baby was
    born, and vice versa. It's difficult to judge how you will be until you
    have the baby living in your home and a major part of your life.
    
    best of luck with whatever you decide... the boss part really gets me,
    since my manager is the absolute opposite and couldn't be more
    supportive or flexible.
    

    
    re.44
    
    Sounds like your manager/supervisor needs more "updating" training.
    When I had my second child a few months ago, my supervisor repeatedly
    said that I should consider taking the 8 weeks of parental leave
    beyond the STD, even though he knew the project schedule would be
    affected. No manager can deny you of the parental leave. I didn't take
    the extra time since I don't like to be home-bound in the winter time.
    
    I put in my 40-ish week and go home. Everyone knows I leave at 4:30 pm, 
    no ifs and but's. If needed, I can start my day real early, or do some
    reading at home. If the project cannot be completed on time based on 
    40 hour weeks, it is the project leader  job to either get more help 
    or to revise the schedule. Working overtime occasionally is one thing, 
    putting in extra hours every week is not acceptable.  I did have to 
    give up some travel opportunities  (there are more like  DECUS and 
    trade shows). Does it make me a less valuable person in the group?
    I don't think so.
    
    But I think it is up to me to put my cards on the table. Essentially,
    I have to know how I want to live my life. Work is always here for
    years to come. But, your kid(s) do not wait for you, they just
    keep on growing. Also, remember that your manager/supervisor's
    job is to help you with your development, how and when you want
    to develop your career is up to you NOT her.
    
    
    Eva.

    
    I second (or third) everything that has been said already including:
    
    1.) You probably won't know exactly what you'll want/need to do
        until after the baby arrives (and even then you will probably
     	have some uncertainties).   It is unrealistic of your boss to
        expect you to make promises based on this fact; it's probably
    	reasonable to ask you what your current *plan* is.
    
    2.) Parental leave of absense is a benefit that you are entitled to.
    	There are restrictions however as to how long you can be out
    	and still be guaranteed your position when you return (4weeks?).
    
    3.) Your disability should have no effect on your PA.   I believe
    	that the LOA would push the PA out by the term of the LOA however.
    
    
    I can't believe that managers such as you've described exist in this
    day and age in Digital (well, I can .... but I WISH they didn't!!)
    As far as part-time work schedules are concerned, I'd encourage you
    to get a copy of the "Alternative Work Schedule Guide" put out in
    Nov, 1989 by the Greater Marlboro Area Personnel Operations and share
    it with your boss.   One of the interesting things in the guide is 
    the cost/benefit analysis.  It shows that  productivity of the part
    time worker is so much highter than the full time workers, that Digital
    receives approx the same output from a 32-hour/week worker as a
    40-hour/week worker at 20% less salary.   I have just come back to 
    a 40-hour work week after a year at 32 hours and I can personally
    vouch for this phenomena!
    
    As far as leaving a technical field for several years to raise
    children, I personally decided it was a risk I didn't want to take
    (coupled with the fact that I knew I'd be unhappy at home full-time).
    
    
    Good luck whatever you decide,
    Carol

    Boy you guys are the nicest people I've ever met in notes!  I usually
    limit myself to technical conferences only and people get pretty nasty
    in there.
    
    RE: all the boss stuff.  Yeah, it has not been pleasant and I know that
    I should talk to personel about the situation.  I've been putting it
    off and putting it off, hoping things will magically 'get better'.
    
    Kind of ironic, but after I posted this last evening, my boss stopped
    by my cube and started talking about all the projects she wants me to
    get involved with 'next'.  Honestly, her list would be too extensive if
    I wasn't going to be a parent of a newborn -- she is possessed!
    
    I'm hoping that I can decide what is best for everyone concerned
    without making this bad situation the focal point, hence the other more
    generic questions I raised.  (Based on only my current situation,
    nothing would please me more than chucking it all -- but that seems so
    'knee jerk')
    
    Thanks for your input!  Reading all the replies of this note has given
    me a better perspective (and made me realize I'm being unrealistic by
    expecting to know exactly what I'll want!)

I had a similiar schedule (long hours and heavy travel) while I was pregnant, 
in a great job that I loved.  It was fortunate for me that the company 
reorganized about the time of the birth and I arranged for a more 
parent-friendly position to come back to after an eight week absence.

If you would like to correspond off line about the sensitive topics this 
raises (managing travel, how one's career is affected, managers, life 
in the field) feel free to send mail.

=ss

re: .44 (what is your first name?)

Not only do you not know what you want until the child
is born, but you may *always* be in doubt!  I just
started back to work a month ago after a six month
leave and I still have ambivalent feelings.  It is only
20 hours a week so that's good but I still feel like
I want to be with Michelle all the time.  So I guess I'm
saying (and this might have already been said in a
previous reply) that you also need to be prepared to
be constantly changing your mind, re-evaluating your
family situation, etc.

Kyra

Kyra's right about that -- since David was born, I took the full 
maternity leave, came back to work full time, went onto part time
(as much for the six-year-old starting school as for the baby), and 
am now back full time . . . and I'm not completely happy with any 
option.  

I think it impacted my relationship with the older children more than with
the baby.  Many people find babies more fun, but as far as actual needs 
go, most babies are happy as long as somebody is feeding them and playing
with them.  The older child needs *you* as an individual much more. 

All in all having an interesting job that sustains me more than drains
me (the present one) seems to be worth the extra hassle and the reduced
time at home.  I'm able to be more present for the time I do have
because I'm more satisfied with myself.  But I do miss the extra time...

--bonnie

    > re: .44 (what is your first name?)
    
    Rhonda
    
    re: everyone's response
    
    Well, I've been doing lots of 'interviewing' of the Mom's that I know
    with small kids and their responses pretty much match all of yours...
    
    It is kind of ironic when I think about it, before I met my
    husband (I was in my late 20's when I did), I had kind of decided 
    I would never get married let alone be a parent.  After I did meet him 
    and realized that marriage sounded ok, I was convinced I would never
    be the type that would 'compromise' my career for a baby.  Now I'm more
    excited about this upcoming kid than I could have imagined.
    
    I'm starting to realize why "Never say Never" is a wise saying!  So, I
    guess I'll try to keep stradling this fence: not burning my bridges,
    but at the same time not firmly committing to things I'm not sure of.

    re: -1 
    
    I know what you mean about "never say never".
    
    Before I had Daniel (3.5 months ago), I could not understand how any
    one could stay home all day and take care of their child. I "needed"
    my job for the self esteem.
    
    Well, I've been back to work for 3 weeks and I hate leaving Daniel at
    the sitters. I can't wait to pick him up and take him home after work.
    And I only work 6 hours in the office plus two hours at home at night.
    
    Funny how situations can change   :-)
    Norma