Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Forgot to mention, Joshua does drink from a cup fairly well but
    I haven't really forced the issue.  Is it best to take the bottle
    away completely or taper off of it?
    
    pam

    I haven't encountered this yet but Eric is soon to be 1 so I will
    be dealing with it soon.  My feeling is it is up to YOU to decide
    what to do, not a daycare teacher.  
    
    Donna
    

    Hi Pam-
    
    My daughter Jamie gave up the bottle at 16 months, but I think she was
    ready two to three months before that (I was just too inexperienced to
    understand the signs). If Josh is showing some signs of indifference,
    like playing or chewing on the nipple or throwing the bottle on the
    floor after drinking very little, he may very well be ready. If that's
    the case, you might want to try to substitute a cup for a day. The
    worst thing that can happen is that he throws a tantrum until you get
    it for him. The best is that he doesn't seem to notice that it's gone
    (that happened with Jamie). Also, take great pains to keep the bottles
    out of sight for awhile if he seems O.K. without it, because he may
    think it's fun to use it again.
    
    About the daycare teacher, I don't think she had any right to say what
    she said to Josh at all. She can SUGGEST to you that you try to wean
    him from the bottle if she notices the signs I mentioned above, but I
    think she had alot of nerve saying what she said. It's easy to feel
    intimidated by "professional" caregivers into doing something--and I'm
    not saying you were--but YOU'RE Josh's mother and you (and his dad)
    know best.
    
    Good luck!
    
    Nancy- 

    Are there any "tricks" in teaching a kid to drink from a cup?  I've
    just started with Marc (9 months).  I'm trying to get him to drink some
    juice from a cup in the morning.  I hear some slurping noises, but
    mostly it just runs down into the bib.  Consequently, very little juice
    is getting into his stomach, so I feel like I should give him some from
    a bottle to compensate.  Is this defeating the cup-training?  He
    _really_ seems to love his bottle, usually sucking down 8 ozs. of
    milk/formula scarcely stopping for a breath!
    
    I've heard people say that kids should be off the bottle by one year,
    but I can't imagine him getting all his liquids from a cup in 2 1/2
    months (currently, he drinks about 3-4 ozs. of juice plus 24 ozs. of
    milk/formula a day).
    

    I could have written your note, Deb.  Allyson is EXACTLY the same
    as Marc.  She prefers to drink from a bottle but "play" with a cup.
    
    - Kathryn
    

    We never were fanatical about getting ours off the bottle. Josh still
    wanted one 1-3 times a week when he was 22 mos. old, but that was all.
    Carrie gave it up at about 16-18 mos. Daniel, at 15 mos., still uses
    one a lot. We  always made sure they drank really well from a cup
    first, before beginning bottle removal. What we did with Carrie and
    willdo with Daniel, is this. Give the child apple juice (or whatever
    your preferred juice is) straight strenghth in both cup and bottle for
    a few days. Then start cutting the juice in the bottle with water. They
    will certainly discriminate the tast difference and will usually prefer
    the flavor of the cup's contents. Eventually ( in about 2 weeks) bottle
    is gone and cup is in to stay. We went one step further. We then
    started cutting the cup juice with water, until she learned to enjoy
    the taste of just plain water. Its healthier for them to drink that
    when they are really thirsty. Its amazing how much juice they would
    consume on a hot day...now they drink water, and actually seem to
    prefer it!
    One method friend's used: If child usually gets 8 oz. in a bottle give
    7 oz. in bottle, and 1 in cup. Then 6 in bottle, 2 in cup, etc.
    Eventually all in cup. We had friends who swore this worked like a
    charm.
    Sorry for long reply, but this is an important step in your child's
    life, one YOU and your HUSBAND should make, not the daycare provider.
    Enjoy them...they're not little for very long!
    --dave--

    We transitioned from bottle to cup at around 18 months if memory serves
    ... but in reality it was when their fine motor skills were developed
    enough!
    
    No rush ... my niece (27 mos) still takes a nightime bottle for comfort.  
    It has the advantage that she doesn't bumble around with a cup when she
    is most tired, sloshing it all over the carpets! :-)
    
    Stuart
    

    My son was drinking well from a cup at meals, but now is drinking
    less from the cup.  Sometimes he pushes it away.  I finished nursing
    him about 3 weeks ago and have substituted bottles.  He gets real
    excited when he sees a bottle now.  He is getting 4-5 bottle a day
    now with the hot weather (6 oz in a bottle).  He is 13 months old and
    always is an avid thumb-sucker at bedtime (big callous on his thumb).
    I think it was an adjustment for him when I stopped nursing him.
    It is bothering me that he is showing so much more interest in the
    bottle now and little in the cup.  I feel like he needs the bottle,
    since he is such a thumbsucker.  What would you do?  Take away bottle
    now or wait awhile?

    As many people have said it does depend upon the child. My pedi
    recommended that my son be off the bottle completely by 1 year.
    Upon a recommendation from my sister (with 2 little ones), she
    suggested never to give anything but formula in the bottle. Of course
    when our son was very little (under 5 months of so) he did get juice 
    and water in a bottle because he just couldn't handle the cup. I
    started weaning away the bottles from about 9 months on so I figured
    I had 3 months (give or take) to phase them out. The 3 months was
    enough time for our son. He took to the cup very well and I always had
    it available during meals and all day long. He was also a good eater so
    I didn't really have to worry about giving him formula to  make up
    nutrients, just if I felt he would get hungry before th next meal.
    
    I personally vote phasing out the bottles no matter what age your child
    is ready. Some kids need the night bottle to go to sleep with (it has
    drawbacks because you won't wake them up to clean their teeth); others
    could care less. I did phase out the night bottle towards the beginning
    because I personally didn't want my son falling asleep to a bottle in
    his mouth and had already developed a bedtime routine of books and songs
    that I felt were "enough" for him. My son is also a very big fluid
    drinker (just like me) and I think he mastered the cup because he
    realized he could ask for juice, water or milk anytime for thirst
    rather than it being an part of a meal. 
    
    Do really take note of the holes in the cover itself. My son loved the
    Tommy Tippee cups to start with - smaller holes giving a flow similar
    to a bottle. He drowned with the tupperware sipper seals when he was
    young. If the holes are to big or many, they end up dribbling more than
    drinking.If the hole are to small, they end up having to work hard and
    could care less and will hold out for the bottle. 
    
    Sorry to ramble.
    Andrea                                                            

    Forgot to add...
    
    I know a number of people who swear by the Mag-Mag cup system. A large
    cup with 2 handles that comes with various tops - a nipple top, a
    sipper top and also a straw top. It is meant to take your child from
    the bottle to a real cup in stages. 
    
    Andrea

    My pedi told me that the act of sipping and swallowing depends on
    the development of the same small muscles in the cheeks, tongue,
    and throat as the are used for talking.  So frequently a child
    who's not as fast developing language skills will also be slower
    accepting a cup.  David's 10 months old this week and still
    doesn't do much but slurp and drool from a cup, though he's bored
    with the bottle and seems perfectly happy with the concept of a
    cup.  
    
    I give him a cup after each meal, so he can practice.  Usually
    he'll manage to get an ounce out of the cup -- half inside him,
    half outside him -- before he loses patience with the process.
    
    So it can be slow.  And that's without issues of emotional
    attachment, sucking needs, comfort, etc. associated with the
    bottle. 
    
    Since .0 says her child can handle a cup pretty well, perhaps a
    good beginning strategy would be to have him take a cup at day
    care and continue a bottle at home.  I suspect he'll gradually
    lose interest.
    
    --bonnie

	Wow!  I had no idea what an easy, early time we had of it!

	Daycare introduced the cup to Katie at 6 1/2 months (while still giving 
her the bottle for the majority of her liquid intake).  At somewhere around 8-9 
months, she was doing well enough (and was showing some of the bottle 
"disinterest signs") that we decided to go with a bottle at breakfast and
dinner and a cup the rest of the time.  We probably could have gotten rid of the
bottle before we did but we found it convenient to plop her in the babyseat with 
a bottle while we got the rest of her dinner ready.  As it was we continued with 
the breakfast and dinner bottles until Katie was 11 months old.  At that point 
we decided that the bottle was more for our convenience than hers and that since
she seemed pretty indifferent to it, that  we'd get rid of the bottle now, 
before she got used to it as a comfort object.  One day we gave her the morning 
bottle but no evening bottle.  She did fine, so we never offered her a bottle 
again.  She never looked back.  

	The first day, she would only drink about 2 ozs at a sitting , but by 
the end of the weekend, she was slurping down 6 ozs at a time.

	BTW the our pedi said at Katie's 12 month checkup that it was time to 
start weaning her from the bottle.  When I told she had agreed to go without 
about a month ago, he seemed surprised  (pleased, but surprised).  So I guess 
Katie was the exception rather than the rule.

Tracey
   

    Has anyone mentioned using a sippy cup?I didn't read all the replies.
    
    I took my kids off the bottle at the same time. Jake was 1 and Aisha
    was 2. Aisha was very hooked on it...like a pacifier for her. Jake
    could have cared less. Aisha was upset with me for a week, and
    sometimes cried for the bottle, but she got over it. I really thought
    she was too old for it, but I never tried until after Jake was born
    and she was used to the idea of having a brother. Then I took it
    away.                                                 
    
    Dot

    My son uses the trainer cup attachment for the Playtex bottles.  
    It has a rubber diaphram that helps control the flow into the top, 
    so for beginners it's great. David had a habit of trying to drink 
    from the sippee cup too fast, resulting in a coughing fit from drowning 
    himself in juice.  This attachment forces him to suck a mouthful at a 
    time.  When he gets proficient at it, I'll remove the diaphram.  
    Sarah
    

I have to disagree with .9 about the Tupperware sippee cups/lids.  They
have a small spout to sip from, but there is no hole to let air back into
the cup, so you can't get much liquid out at a time.  You kind of have to
suck them, too, so I thought they were good to use to wean off of bottles.

Matt became VERY attached to his bottle at about 1 yr.  All day at daycare
he always used a cup, but at home, especially during the evening, he would
cart his bottle everywhere and constantly suck. (I think he was drinking
too much milk and not eating enough food!)  At about 14 months we quit the
bottles COLD TURKEY.  That first evening he threw a tantrum when he couldn't
have a bottle.  The second evening he cried a little, but got over it quickly.
And then he was fine after that and never seemed to miss them again.

I think when and how you wean your child from a bottle is up to you.  Your
care provider had no right to say/do what she did, especially without con-
sulting you first.

� �ori

I think it must make a big difference if you are breast feeding.  The only
time Kati had a bottle was at daycare, so I never messed with them.  But
a few of my friends told me about how difficult it was to wean their kids of
a bottle, and I decided I wasn't going to go through that if I could avoid it.

When she was 8 mos. old I took a sippie cup to her daycare AND a bottle.  I
told them to only use the bottle if she demanded it, otherwise just give her
milk/juice out of a cup.  She wasn't really that attached to the bottle and
never asked for it, so I took home all of her bottles about a week later.

She never did very well with the sippie cup, though.  She liked to turn it
upside down and watch all the liquid run out of it, so I moved her right on to
a cup (~9 mos.).

I will say that Kati was (and still is (-:  ) VERY attached to her pacifier.
I get much criticism over it, but my life is easier if I allow it once-in-a
while.  She also did not wean from the breast until 15 mos., so I guess there
is a trade-off.

Kristen

    I reduced Eric's bottle to one per day when he was 1 year old.
    The one left was the morning one.  Eric didn't like to be
    rushed in the morning.  When he waked up, he stayed in bed,
    drank his bottle, played with us, then got up for breakfast
    (the whole routine could take about 20 minutes).  By 15 months,
    I decided it is time to get rid of bottles.  I used cold turkey.
    I just picked one morning, gave him a cup instead of bottle.
    He asked for the bottle, and I told him that I couldn't find
    it.  And that is.  He never asks again.
    
    I think if your baby can handle the cup well, then bottle is
    more to your convenience than the baby's.  BTW, I too was
    worry that Eric won't get enough milk without the bottle.
    Only for the first week.   He soon can drink as much milk
    from the cup. 
    
    Wendy          

    re: .16
    
    Don't let anybody hassle you about your daughter's pacifier,
    Kristen.  Kids vary widely in the amount of sucking they need,
    and if your daughter doesn't chew on a pacifier, she'll chew on
    something else.  
    
    I've had a "suckaholic", a don't-put-junk-in-MY-mouth!, and a
    who-cares.  Kat didn't give up the pacifier until she was around
    3, and then she just traded it in for a finger.  When she got into
    school it was pen caps, and erasers.  She still chews on pen caps. 
    So do I, for that matter.  It doesn't seem to have hurt any of us,
    hindered our emotional development, or interfered in our ability
    to form normal relationships.
    
    --bonnie

    I remember a similar discussion in V2.  We started giving Ryan a cup at
    8-9 months, not expecting much for a while in terms of "really"
    drinking from it.  By 12 1/2 months, he'd completely given it up.
    
    Re .5 and .10
    The mag-mag cup system is really wonderful. When we offered a sippy cup
    at 9 months, it was the usual mess of blessing everything around him
    with juice.  So, we offered the mag-mag cup with a nipple screwed on
    for a while, graduated to the sippy, and then later the straw. We still
    use it for both sippy and straw; it's great for travelling because it's
    got a cover just for the sippy; and we've just started using the
    training lid.
    
    As for weaning from the nipple, we did it gradually, one bottle at a
    time for a few days and then the next one. It is perfectly normal for
    the child's fluid intake to decrease (in our case, drastically at
    first) when they first move off a bottle. It'll pick up again, and as
    long as they drink when thirsty, and have a cup offered frequently,
    they make up for it.
    
    Bonnie mentioned a good point - the sucking is really important for
    kids, at least the first year, that's why we did it gradually and
    didn't try to "cold turkey" off the nipple. And, Ryan at 2 still takes
    a pacifier at bedtime and naps. It's his only real comfort object, so I
    don't have a problem with it.
    
    Best of luck and I agree with the comment, YOU decide when, not the
    daycare. See if you can enlist their help in a gradual weaning, rather
    than immediate withdrawal.
    

    In this (as most everything!) each kid has his own style and timetable. 
    I'm told that as a tot, I refused anything but a bottle beyond what my
    parents thought was a reasonable age (I don't know what it actually
    was).  Then one day I hurled my bottle across the room and switched
    completely to a cup!
    
    For some kids, it's more the sucking than the bottle itself.  My two
    were both fanatical binky users when small, which took care of this for
    them (they never had a bedtime bottle, for example).  They therefore gave 
    up bottles fairly early and quite easily.  It would be different for 
    kids who used a bottle to satisfy sucking needs.  For them, you might
    try using nipples with smaller and smaller holes.  They'll get their
    liquid from the cup and their sucks from the bottle.
    
    As for daycare providers, the main thing is to _discuss_ the issue,
    whether or not you end up exactly agreeing. In fact, daycare might be
    the easiest setting for a child to first give up a bottle.
    
    		- Bruce

    P.S.
    One thing I especially liked in using the mag-mag with nipple is that Ryan
    didn't get any attachment to seeing a baby bottle... He saw a cup all
    the time, regardless of what the drinking device (for lack of a better
    word)- nipple, sippy, straw -, from the age of 9 months on.
    
    Re Kristen:
    And another tangent - I agree with Bonnie. If Kati wants a pacifier,
    why not. The only caution I use is not outside the crib (unless in the
    car), so it doesn't interfer with talking or playing. I figure if he's
    distracted/occupied with something else, he really doesn't need it. And
    it gets real annoying trying to understand what he's saying when he's
    got something in his mouth!
    

    Rathole alert!!!
    
    A couple notes mentioned the pacifier and if any parents are "sweating"
    the day they want to take them away, here an idea that might help.
    
    My neighbor's daughter loved her
    pacifier and when she was almost 3 they decided to try this tactic to
    get HER to give it up. They told Amanda that she could use her
    pacifiers at Toys R' Us as money on this certain Sunday and if she
    wanted they would take her there and she could "buy" a toy. Well, off
    they went. She picked out her toy and while being distracted down
    another isle one parent purchased the toy and told the clerk that his
    daughter was going to "buy" the same toy with her pacifiers as money.
    When Amanda came up to the counter the clerk played along beautifully
    and pretended to ring up the item, told her it costs 3 pacifiers,
    Amanda willingly handed them over, they were placed in the cash drawer
    and Amanda received a receipt as well. Amanda never looked back on the
    pacifiers because she was the one who bought something of her choice
    with them.
    
    I think this is a brilliant idea!!!!
    
    Andrea

    We had multiple note collision here.
    
    I agree on resisting pacifier-phobia.  I believe that denying needed
    sucking to an infant will promote more sucking and chewing needs later 
    in life.
    
    I'm also convinced it's hereditary.  Despite using binkys for several
    years, my boys were both clothes sucker-chewers.  Always their left
    sleeve cuffs, or their left collars (or left side of neck on a
    crew-necked t-shirt).  It was quite funny to see Eric chewing on the
    exact same spots on hand-me-downs that had already been lacerated by
    his big brother!  And multiple witnesses testified that their mom had
    herself chewed on the same places when she was small!  All this despite
    the fact that Eric is left handed, and the other right handed.  But
    thanks, I think, to their pacifiers, the boys have so far escaped
    nail-chewing, unlike their mom.
    
    		- Bruce (who was a major league thumb sucker when small)
    

    I am just starting to wean my 15 month old son from the bottle.  Aaron also
    just graduated into the Older Babies Room at Daycare.  The children
    of course are allowed bottles if they really want one, but there is
    so much other stimulation in that room that Aaron doesn't seem to even
    think about his bottle.  He still has his morning bottle, but for the
    past three nites he hasn't had his nitetime bottle.  They were a few
    nites last week too when he didn't have his bottle.
    
    There were a couple of nites when he was so overtired that nothing 
    I did could sooth him so I just gave him his bottle.
    
    So basically what I'm doing is taking it one day at a time and 
    gradually weaning Aaron.  I'll let you know how we make out.

    
    JA used to "dribble" the cup (for what seemed like WEEKS and WEEKS!).
    She loves water, so we'd just put water in her training cup -- and the
    mess became much easier to clean up.  Once we got "off her case" about
    slobbering (it's "now" just water), she seemed to settle down and "do it
    right". 
    
    My Mom decided to add an ice cube (on a real hot day and it added a 
    little"jingle", too).  Boy, did that entice JA! 
    
    Shortly after that (10 months'ish), JA became VERY proficient with her
    cup.  She still has her bottles (mostly because it's convenient for
    Jim/me) ... as she'd gladly toss the bottle and take the cup.   I'm
    kind of shooting to "get rid of ALL bottles" shortly after her first 
    birthday (in a month). 
    
    Dottie

    
    	I have just been reading through most of your suggestions
    	regarding "the bottle".  Personally, I do not see the 
    	urgency to have a child stop using his/her bottle.  What
    	is wrong with this ?   I don't know nor have I seen any 
    	adult still using their bottle.
                              
    	However, I have had to ask adults not to tell her she is
    	too old to have her bottle or that it is dirty !!.  I find
    	these types of comments stupid, and rather immature.
    	My daughter stopped using her bottle when she was 6 years    
    	of age - no encouragement needed, and believe it or not 
    	she is quite normal.
    
    	Regards
    	Aileen
    

    re: .26
    
    Aileen -- 
    
    The main reason is dental.  There's a greatly increased incidence
    of orthodontic and decay problems in the mouths of children who
    are on the bottle very late.
    
    This is not to say that other people have any business telling a
    parent what to do, but parents should be aware of the increased
    risk.  
    
    --bonnie

    Brian drank from bottles until he was just over 2.  He drank a lot from
    a cup but had 2-3 bottles a day.  It was largely for comfort -- he
    always asked for one when he was tired or hurt.  We checked with the
    dentist and he said it was okay.  He suggested that the last one of the
    night be filled with water to clean off his teeth.  Brian didn't ever
    keep a bottle with him all day.  He was given one, he'd lay down and
    drink it, and then put it in the sink so the dentist wasn't worried
    about orthodontic problems.
    
    A couple of months after his 2nd birthday it was "throw away the
    bottles day".  Brian threw each of his bottles into the trash can
    (later rescued for baby #2) and got a button to wear that said "I threw
    away my bottles today!".  He did fine with it -- we made a big deal
    about it being a "big boy" thing (like going into a big bed) and he
    only asked for a bottle once the next day.  We reminded him he had
    thrown the bottles away and it was not a problem.  He never asked
    again.
    
    We did feel a little uncomfortable with him using bottles for so long
    but it was only our own predudices and attitudes of others that made us
    feel this way.  They were very important to him and we didn't have any
    evidence that it would cause problems for him later, so why not let him
    keep them?  I think that it worked out for the best for us.
    
                                                 Tracy 

    One big factor that my childs doctor warned me about was NEVER give
    a child a bottle in bed.  Both a bad and dangerous habit to begin.
    It may make it easier on the parent at first, but it will be harder
    in the long run.
    
    My son was completely off the bottle by 11 1/2 months old.  he never
    missed it, either.  We started him on a sippy cup (the kind that
    doesn't spill much) and he liked it better than the bottle.  He
    got more at a time (sometimes he's kind of a piggy when it comes
    to both food and drink) and had a blast taking a sip and setting
    it down, taking a sip and setting it down, etc.  In my personal
    opinion, there is no need for a bottle beyond 13 months old, and
    in many doctors opinion also.  
    
    I really have to ask if the old line "is the child ready" has anything
    to do with are the parents ready to begin to deal with it or not.
    I've seen many that don't want to deal listening to the crying for
    a couple of minutes (whether it be for a bottle or for a new toy
    that they want) and comforting them rather than just giving in to
    the screams of a tantrum.  If you make changes fun for them, they
    seem to come around a lot quicker.  My son at 16 months old is already
    1/2 way potty trained.  He still wears a diaper at night, but loves
    to use his own little toilet during the day.  We've always made
    it a fun experience for him.
    
    Kel

    Just an update, I took Joshua to the doctor yesterday for the flu
    and she also suggested taking him off of the bottle.  He has a mouth
    full of teeth and she is concerned about his bite as well as decay
    from constant sugar on his teeth from juice/milk.  All of his molars
    are coming in (5 already!) and she expressed concern about him getting
    a "bottle bite".  We have really been trying to offer the cup (sippy,
    regular, two-handed mug, etc.) and Josh seems to LOVE drinking through
    a straw from a Crayola cup that has a lid with a hole for the straw.
    He has only "asked" for the bottle once in two days, so maybe it
    is time.
    
    Pam

    re - .29
    Kel, 
    I'm glad for you that your son was willing to give up the bottle at
    that age. Many can and do, and, yes, many doctors recommend that around
    1 yr. is a good age to phase out the bottle. *But*....before you go
    making statements about not being sure about the "kids'll do it when
    they're ready" idea, and before you assume that its the parent's
    reluctance to deal with some crying and displays of temper....maybe you
    ought to get to know a few more kids! They are all very different, even
    within one family (don't be surprised, if you have another, that he/she
    will be completely different!) Our son *hated* a sippy cup with a
    passion, and wanted only a regular lidless cup. Trouble was he was
    abysmally inefficient with this cup until about 18 mos or a bit later.
    He choked, he coughed, he spit it out. We gave him regular
    opportunities to practice (5 or 6 times a day), praised him for good
    efforts, made it as fun as we could (Bright kids cups, cute
    designs...we let him pick out whichever cup he wanted, etc.). But, he
    just didn't catch on, and got very little liquid from a cup. He also
    had an incredible need to suck, right from birth...the doctor even
    mentioned that he thought it was on the unusually high side (Everything
    wnt into his mouth...not to tast, feel, play with...but he would suck
    on it, just like on a bottle or pacifier, particularly if it was even
    remotely shaped like a nipple) We are NOT, and have never been, parents
    who give in to crying and tantrums. Its counterproductive in the long
    run, to do so. Not allowing him a bottle led to the following
    reactions: Crying (ignore and comfort)...screaming (ignore and
    comfort)...throwing up (clean up and comfort). Fall asleep in
    exhaustion and then wake up and begin all over again. Offers of the cup
    were futile...he would try and just not get it. We carried on for close
    to 3 full, nightmarish days of this. He got so little liquid, he
    stopped crying tears, and didn't wet very much (dehydration). A call to
    thte doctor brought this advice..."For goodness sakes, give him back
    the bottle! He's obviously not able to handle a cup yet! Kepp trying
    the cup, and he will get the knack eventually. THEN taper off the
    bottle (or cold turkey, if you want to...as long as he can get what he
    needs from a cup). Josh was 15 mos. at the time. He gave up bottles
    entirely, and relatively effortlessly at 22 mos. He was then drinking
    solidly from a cup, and the bottles were given up gradually. Yes, he
    cried a few times for them. No, we did not give in. Our other two
    children were both differnet from this. But this is just one example of
    a kid "not being ready". it DOES happen. It is not just a way for
    parent's to justify their not being ready (although this undeniably
    does happen at times).
    Josh also, absolutely coudl or would not toilet train till 3.3
    years...and this includes "making it fun" (his own little potty,
    special- he picked 'em out -big boy underwear, rewards, books to read
    on the potty, etc.). He just didn't. Plain and simple. He *was not
    ready*....either physically or emotionally. You are very fortunate to
    have a 16 mos old who is...count your blessing! That is really special,
    and I hope you have lots more special times with your little fellow.
    They are all special gifts,a nd all *SO* different, so
    ...please...don't assume cause you and your son could do it, that other
    parents and kids can. Some can, some can't. Do what's best for *your*
    child, and that's all anyone can hope for!
    I'm off my soapbox now.... :-)!
    
    --dave--

By the way, Brazelton actually feels that thumb-sucking is preferable to
pacifiers.  He suggest that the thumb is a form of comfort which the child
finds for itself, and is under its own control, as opposed to the pacifier,
which is imposed from outside.

Of course, I have never heard *anyone* else who agreed with him on this!

(Elspeth never used either a thumb or a pacifier -- or a bottle -- so I
don't have any opinion on this one.)

	-Neil

    After reading the replies, I truly appreciate how luck we were in
    getting rid of the bottle.  AJ is and has been one who will give in
    easily to peer pressure.  He was about 14 months old, we had come home
    and were following our usual post work chaos routine. We plopped him in
    his high chair and started to give him the usual small bottle of milk,
    just to pacify him until dinner was ready.  He GAVE it back to his dad
    and said "NO, I want a CUP!!"  Seems most of the others a the daycare
    home were using a cup, he was a little younger than the others.  He
    still got one off and on for another month or two at night or early in
    the morning, water only. But for the most part that was the end of the
    bottle.  He only did a pacifier for his first 4 months.  His only and
    favorite, no lie, was lost in the house move.  We were never able to
    find another of the same brand and he refused all the other
    "orthodontic" type pacifiers, so we simply never offered him anything
    else.  I guess we're especially lucky since he's never been a thumb
    sucker, my worst fear after the pacifier disapeared.
    
    He loves the tupperware sippy cups, and he still gets them with a cover
    on them.  It's self defense especially in a moving car!  We recently
    bought an Aladdin brand lunchbox kit, the thermos part had a flip up
    spout which works great in the car too.
    
    IMHO, just wait...no child I know has ever gone to kindegarten with a
    bottle...or diapers for that matter!!
    
    Lyn

    I talked to my doctor today about taking the bottle away from my son. I
    asked him if we should go cold turkey. Since my son is 2.5 yrs and is
    very attached to his bottle when he needs some comfort, the doctor did
    not recommend going cold turkey. Instead, he suggested we get rid of
    all bottles in the house except one. Let the nipple wear down till it
    no longer functions and let the child see that it no longer functions
    and then let the child throw it away. Better it an "act of God" so to
    speak than Mommy or Daddy taking it away.
    
    I also tried a trick a friend told me about and that was to water down
    the milk. My son refuses water in the bottle, but will drink one ounce
    of milk mixed with 5 oz of water! So, that trick didn't work.
    
    I'd love to hear some success stories from parents of children 2.5 and
    older who finally gave up the bottle. My older son wasn't attached to
    it so it was absolutely no problem to give it up. I gave myself some
    undue credit for that one. Now that I have a son who truly loves it as
    his comfort item I need some help.
    
    Suggestions?

    I have an almost two year old.(two the 25 of this month).
    I have not taken the bottle away yet. Part of this stems from
    his being so sick last january and february. I finally gave up on
    "traditional" medicine(antibiotics ect) and tried going to a 
    naturopathic Dr. (N.D. its actually an official title) she suggested
    various herbal tintures and vitamins. The tintures she made herself and
    the vitamins or minerals I would pick up from the local Health Food
    Store. The tintures dropped by the dropper ful into hot juice and 
    allowed to cool (to let the alcohal that the herbs are suspended
    in evaperate). Trying to convince my one year old that this
    was great stuff was not easy. But he would drink it from a bottle so
    the bottles stayed around when I had wanted to cut back.
    
    Well I did cut back after he got better. Both my boys were very healthy
    through the last 6 to 8 months. Now with fall and some unavoidable
    emotional stress they are both sick again. John has and ear infection
    and Devin has broncitus and swollan toncils. We started the herbal
    stuff immediantly and have gone from one bottle a day to a 1/4 cup of
    herb-juice in a bottle every two hours. 
    
    My four year old drinks it down quickly and then has a glass of plain
    juice but John wont touch it in a cup.  So I guess I will start over 
    after they both get better. I had thought I would let the nipple
    wear down and let John know it was broken and needed to be thrown away
    and thats that. Now I just dont know.
    
    Some time I feel so guilty about this as my other children lost
    interest in the bottle so quickly (12 to 18 months).
    
    janet
    

Janet, as long as the bottle is useful (and it sounds like it is, to get
that medicine down!), then keep the bottle.  When it is no longer needed
by you or by John, then you can toss it.

   JMHO,
        Carol

    I feel like a broken record for making this suggestion so often, but it
    might help :-)  Try a Magmag cup - it has a screw on nipple, and a
    screw on sippy. It might help move him away from the image of a bottle,
    and then you can wean him from the nipple at some later date.
    
    best of luck,
    

    
    My son Joey (15 mo.) still has his bottle & binky.  My husband would
    like him off of both to be honest, but I'm not sure if that would be
    good for him.  I did cut both of them down a real lot.  He gets a
    bottle only in the morning and at night when I put him in bed.  As
    for his binky it is in the crib with him when I put him in for the
    night so when he finishes his bottle he just puts it in his mouth
    himself.  If we go on long drive he can have either of the two.  If
    I did take him off of the binky or the bottle which one "should" I
    do first?  Or should I do them both??
    
    
    Thanks in advance,
    Nadine
    

    Nick (1 yr old) began giving up his bottle at approx 6 months, and 
    was off it completely at approx 8 months. We were actually giving him
    his formula out of a sippy cup. Nothing but sippy-cups for him now, 
    unless he happens to get his hands on one of our glasses or mugs...;^)
    He still uses a pacifier, however, when going down for the night; he 
    doesn't particularly want one during the day unless he's really cranky.
    
    We were glad to see him progress so quickly to a cup instead of a
    bottle, and attribute it to three factors:
    
    	1) When Nick began bottle-feeding (phased in beginning approx
    	2-mos old) and when I was doing the feeding, I would hold the 
    	bottle just out of his reach, and eventually he learned to reach
    	out, grab it and pull it into his mouth. I guess this helped him
    	develop the ability to hold onto his own bottle/cup.
    
    	2) Nick started attended a daycare center at 3 months, and was one
    	of the younger babies there. We think that he wanted to emulate the
    	older infants who were using sippy cups, and thus made the switch
    	at a young age in order to 'fit in'. (Oh no...my son's a conformist!)
    
    	3) We realized while packing the bottles away for the next baby,
    	that the nipples were age-specific, and were geared toward 0-3, or
    	3-6 month old kids. It didn't dawn on us that the holes were
    	probably too small and weren't providing enough flow to satisfy
    	a big, growing 7-month old. It's no wonder he took to the sippy
    	cups so readily!
    
    We never felt that giving up the bottle so quickly was 'bad' for him;
    he never seemed to miss it, and doesn't seem any worse for wear. On the 
    contrary it helped up avoid the issue of whether to give a baby a 
    bottle when putting them to bed, with all the problems that are said
    to go along with it...One less bump on the rollercoaster of parenthood.
    
    	Freddie

	My son was about the same age when  I tried getting the
	bottle away from him... It was going fine until he got
	sick - and back to the bottle we went.

	Then over thanksgiving we had a bottle throwing away
	party - john-john and I (mostly him though) went around
	the house throwing away any bottle related stuff - ie
	nipples,rings, bottles, bottlebrush.   We (he) decided
	that he wasn't a baby anymore and didn't need the bottles.

	(after he left the room, I dug one bottle set back out and
	hid it)..

	He only asked for a bottle once or twice, and I'd say
	Don't you remember we threw them all out because bottles
	are for babies, and your a big boy, not a baby!  

	/robin\

    re .38
    I'd be curious to know why your husband wants your son off the binky
    and the bottle. It's just something to think about - is he overally
    dependent on them (doesn't sound like it) - you seem to have good
    limits about when and where he has the pacifier, for example.
    
    Sometimes things don't seem as necessary or time critical when you look
    at the reasons for wanting to get rid of it. In the case of the bottle,
    gradual weaning to a cup would definitely help. Try a Magmag cup which
    has a screw on nipple, and then graduates to a screw on sippy, straw,
    etc.
    

    
    
    re: .41
    
    My husband thinks that Joey should be off the bottle for 1) tooth decay
    2) He has bit of 2 tips of the nipple on the bottle.  As for the binky
    he feels that we might have a real hard time trying to get him off of 
    it.  My husband has a 5 year old who had his binky till he was 4 yrs
    old.  It was so hard trying to get him off of it.  Jeff (4 at the time)
    said he was gonna give it up when the baby was born.  The dentist made
    him give it up before the baby was born.  If it wasn't for the binky
    he wouldn't be sleeping through the night.  (he still wakes up a couple
    of times if it should fall out and he can't find it).  I feel that Joey
    having his bottle in the morning and before bed is great.  He has his
    sippee cup "all" day at the sitters, when he comes home for dinner I
    give him a cup with dinner.  The only thing I don't like about the cup
    is he shakes it upside down in his dinner, on my floor, etc.!!
    
    
    -Nadine
    

    re .42,   > the only thing I don't like is he shakes it all over his
    food and my floor
    
    c'mon, are you suggesting that he eats his meal without spilling a
    single crumb on the floor.  I don't know about you, but with AJ, who's
    almost 4, my cats AND floor are Very well fed each night at supper!
    Don't sweat the small stuff like a little milk on the floor and table!
    I include a quick sweep and mopping of the floor as part of after
    supper clean up.
    
    Lyn
    (enjoy 'em while they're young!)
    

    We all know the "whys, wherefores and benefits" of "tossing the
    bottle", HOWEVER ...
    
    	1)  when did you start this process; and
    
        2)  when was this process considered "completed"?
    
    Thanks!
    
    From_a_Mom_who_finds_handing_JA_a_bottle_to_be_easier_and_less_messy!
    And_a_kid_who's_starting_to_believe_her_bottle_is_her_Guardian_Angel!
    
    Dottie

    First, you may want to see note 211.
    
    Next, it seems Joshua gradually weaned himself off the bottle at
    home to a point, whereas at daycare it was taken away fairly abruptly.
    At six months we started with a cup and by 15 months all bottles
    were packed away in a box.  Of course, there were steps in between-
    less bottles during the day, encouraging the cup often, introducing
    straws (which work great BTW), etc.
    
    Good luck-it isn't easy!!  Though I do believe it was harder on
    me(realizing my baby wasn't a baby anymore) than on my son.
    
    Ahhhh...next step potty training....|-0
    
    pam

    I began introducing a sipper cup to my daughter at 6 months, and once
    she got a taste of "easy" gratification, she was hooked!  She began
    chewing on the nipple of the bottle, rather than sucking from it, so I
    took it as my cue to get rid of the bottle.  She transitioned easily to
    the cup at 6 months!  My only concern was getting enough into her with
    the cup, so I tended to offer it alot.
    
    Certainly, every baby is different - my sitter's daughter is 2 years
    old and would still prefer a bottle if it were offered to her!
    
    Diana

    I'm not sure if this is more a nutrition question rather than a bottle
    question...
    
    Marc (13 mos.) drinks happily from a sippy cup at each meal.  We give
    him juice with breakfast and water with lunch and dinner.  Shortly
    after each meal (usually about 1-2 hrs.), he seems to want a bottle. 
    We give him 8 ozs. of milk three times a day.  He drinks the entire
    bottle with no problem.  I'd like to get him off the bottle, but I'm
    not sure how.
    
    Is a 13-month old supposed to drink 3 cups of milk a day?  (I think I
    read in Penelope that 3 cups provides the right amount of calcium,
    etc.).
    
    How should I give him the milk?  Should I just give him milk with meals
    and nothing inbetween?  Should I put him back in the highchair with a
    cup of milk at the times when I would usually give him a bottle?
    
    When we decided Marc was too old for strained babyfood, we just cut out
    the babyfood cold turkey and Marc didn't mind at all.  (We were the
    ones using it as a crutch).  I have a feeling that the bottles may be
    the same way, although when he sees that bottle, _boy_ does he get
    excited!

    When Caileigh was 21 months, we decided to get rid of the bottle.  She
    had been also using cups with and w/o covers for a year, but the bottle
    was neater and easier for us.  But we decided we wanted it to be long
    gone before #2 came along (when Caileigh was just 2).  
    
    Paul and I sat down with her and told her she was a big girl now and
    didn't need bottles anymore and we asked her to throw them away, which
    she did.  She had a drink of water from a cup, went to bed and woke up
    at 4 a.m. crying.  She led us to the kitchen and tried to retrieve her 
    bottles from the trash (which we had already done).  We told her we
    knew it was hard, but she didn't need her bottles anymore.  The next
    day, we bought her a "big girl" present (can't remember what) and we
    never heard another word about the bottle.
    
    When Paige was 20 months, we did the same thing.  She was more attached
    to the bottle than Caileigh but she never did ask for it again.  (She's
    also more stubborn.)  The next day, we bought her a booster car seat
    that she had been wanting (like Caileigh's).  For about a month,
    everytime she saw a baby bottle, she said "I'm a big girl now.  I have
    a booster seat."
    
    -Tracy
    

    
    Joey gets 1 bottle a day (nighttime), filled with 1/2 juice & 1/2
    water.  As for his daily schedule, he uses sippee cups.  Juicy juice
    during the day as well as water.  He has 1 cup of milk a day with
    his dinner.  He's 16 mo. and has 10 teeth.  Too much milk isn't good
    for their teeth.
    
    -Nadine
    

    re: .47
    
    It is my understanding from a number of sources (books, magazines, AND
    Jason's pedi) that children of Marc's age normally consume 20-24 oz.
    of milk per day.  So, 3 8-oz bottles seems okay to me.  I disagree
    with the previous note that this is too much and certainly question
    whether it is any worse for the teeth than juicy juice!  
    
    Deb, I was doing with Jason what you are doing with Marc up until 
    13 months.   At that point, his babysitter asked that I stop bringing
    bottles for him as she thought he didn't need them anymore.  He was
    then and is now (at 14+ months) down to a morning bottle and an
    evening bottle.  He drinks a sippy cup of milk at each meal and
    juice/water is offered at snack-time and between meals.  This is 
    how I'd expect you'd feed a older toddler and/or child which is
    why I'm doing it (i.e. milk with the meal).   It also seems to make
    a more satisfying meal for Jason overall...this may be your problem
    with Marc wanting his milk shortly after is meal...he isn't getting
    tanked up enough!
    
    I'm not sure which bottle (or both) will go next and when.  I know from
    previous discussions that his pedi thinks that 15months is the right
    age for dropping the bottles but he really likes the morning one and
    often *needs* the evening one to start shutting down his engines (this
    is one active little boy!)
    
    Good luck....the first couple of days without the bottle might be
    tough!
    
    Carol

    Kendall is 19 months now and uses a cup 98% of the time....she needs a
    bottle to go-to-bed at home but at daycare she does not use her
    bottle... Since I just moved her into her big bed I am waiting  
    a week or so to get back to that bottle at bedtime at home issue....
    
    As for milk, I give Kendall milk at all meals and most snacks.  When she
    is at home there is always a cup of juice or water in reach!  I agree
    with the more milk the better!!!
    
    Karen

    I would *strongly* suggest speaking to your pedi about the recommended
    milk intake for children.  My son, who is a terrible eater, got juice
    with meals about 50% of the time.  The last time I had a talk with my
    pedi, he suggested that I cut out juice entirely (except for
    "emergency" situations) and make it milk or water only.  He explained
    that the little ones will get just enough "energy" from the juice to
    cause a decline in the appetite.  They have enough energy to run aroud
    for a few hours, then they get another glass of juice.....more
    energy....refill on juice....  etc......
    
    
    As it turns out, Robby's appetite has improved.  Not 100%, but he is
    eating better than he ever has.  
    
    Again, speak to the pedi for accurate information.
    
    Sue
    
    P.S. The "to much milk/bad for teeth" stuff is probably a mangled
    version of the warning against bottle-mouth.
    
    

    Well, I decided to see if Marc actually needed bottles for comfort,
    or if he would be just as happy getting the milk from a cup.  Starting
    Saturday morning, we just discontinued all the bottles and gave him
    milk from a cup at meals, with water in between as often as he liked.
    
    The day seemed to go fine, but we had trouble getting him to bed at
    night without the pacifier (he almost _never_ cries when we put him
    down), and he's woken up crying the last 3 nights (he's been sleeping
    11 hrs. straight for months and months).  Last night and this morning
    was the worst.  When we went in to check on him before we went to
    bed, he was whimpering in his sleep and groping for the pacifier.
    I heard him crying at 4:30 a.m., and then he woke up crying at 7 a.m.
    (he usually wakes up at 7:30, happy and smiling).  He wouldn't let go
    of me, and kept pointing to the pacifier.  When I gave it to him, he
    just held it in his hand and wouldn't let go.  POOR KID!
    
    This experiment was a clear success :-)  It proved to me that he still
    needs the comfort of sucking (is that unusual at 13 mos.?).  We'll go
    a little slower from now on.  My daycare provider says he really likes
    the mid-morning bottle, but is indifferent to the afternoon one.  And
    I _know_ he likes the bedtime one.  So we'll eliminate the afternoon
    one for starters and work on one at a time.  
    
    I was concerned that the longer we waited, the more attached he would
    be to the bottles and the harder it would be to eliminate them.  We'll
    see how this new approach goes.

    One small counterexample to "the longer you wait, the harder it is":

    David gave up most of his bottles a long time ago (not sure when, but
    it must have been over a year ago).  Our doctor said there was no reason
    to put any effort into making him give up the last one (he still liked
    to have a bottle of milk first thing in the morning).  So we didn't do
    anything about it.  Finally, 3 weeks before his 3rd birthday, I decided
    that enough was enough.  We went out on Saturday and bought him one of
    those thermos-y things that has a straw built into the top - we let him
    pick out the one he liked (it had dinosaurs all around the outside).  That
    night, we told him that he could have his milk in his new thermos in
    the morning.  Next morning, no problems.  He hasn't mentioned bottles at
    all since then.

    re: previous reply (Deb?) on need for sucking at 13 months:

    David sucked his thumb and frequently carried around a security blanket
    until he was almost exactly 15 months.  Then he suddenly gave up both on
    his own.  I believe that he needed the sucking until that point.  On the
    other hand, Gregor (now 5 months old) has never sucked on anything except
    when he's drinking.  I can easily believe that some babies need the
    sucking much longer than 15 months, and will still give it up when they're
    ready.  (And, as Bonnie has mentioned, there may be some where the
    sucking persists as habit into adulthood, and you just redirect it to
    something more socially acceptable than a thumb or pacifier.)

								cheryl

    My youngest was rather attached to the bottle, too.  We found that once
    he asked for the bottle, if we were too busy at the moment or asked him
    to wait a few minutes he would forget about it.  We would give in once
    a day and before we knew it he just stopped asking.  He was about 22
    months old.  My oldest, however, gave it up entirely in a week - he 
    was 13 months old.
    
    -sandy
    

I believe a child should have a bottle as long as they need it, but we 
did institute one rule  in our house that, I think, helped the kids on 
their way.  That is "no walking around with a bottle".  Bottles were 
only given when the children were in their highchair or in Mommy or 
Daddy's laps, nowhere else.  

Brian stopped with the bottle early, eleven months, and was using cup 
and breast (breastfeeding stopped at 19 months).  Maggie needed the 
bottle off and on until she was about 18 months old.  But when the 
choice had to be made of playing or sucking the bottle, the older she 
got, the clearer it became, and she only had her bottle when she 
really needed the extra comfort.

FWIW.
Norma

    re .53
    I'm confused - did you experiment with no bottle AND no pacifier? That
    might have been a tough withdrawal for Marc all at once.... it wasn't
    clear from your note.
    
    best of luck,
    

    Re .-1.  He has never been much of a pacifier user.  He never uses it
    during the day for any reason, and almost always has no problem falling
    asleep without one.  The only time we ever gave him one was on the rare
    night when he woke up in the middle of the night.  It always helped him
    fall right back asleep.  I'll still do that whenever necessary.  My
    comment about the pacifier in my original note was that it was very
    unusual for him to need one to go to sleep with, and I've never seen
    him grab and hug it like a long-lost friend.
    
    Anyway, after being awake with him between 3 and 4:30 a.m. last nite
    (when he refused to even lay down no matter what), I called the pedi,
    and they think he might have a stomach bug causing him cramps in the
    middle of the night (they think this because the last few days, he's
    woken up in the morning with a completely poopy diaper, which is very
    unusual for him.  Maybe this is correlated with not sleeping well.  
    Geeez, I feel like Sherlock Holmes :-))

    I want to take my son off the bottle soon, He is 18 months old, but I am 
    torn to for a few reasons.
    
    1) He needs it to go to bed at night.
    
    2  He wakes up between 5:30 and 6:30 and if I give him a bottle of milk
    he will usually go back to sleep for a while.
    
    3) Traveling in the car can be a horror. If we give him a bottle it
    settles him down for a while.
    
    4) He drinks from a cup well, but I won't let him walk around the house
    with a sippy cup( He sometimes turns it up side down and the liquid
    spills out).
    
    Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
    
    Lynne
    

    Lynne,
    
    My advice would be, don't try to get rid of all the bottles at
    once.  
    
    It sounds like the nighttime bottle would probably be the easiest
    place to start. Try substituting another routine (such as reading
    a book or playing a quiet game with Mom or Dad) for the bottle. 
    Giving him a cup of milk and a healthy snack before he starts the
    bedtime routine might help, too.  
    
    He might be waking early because he's getting too much sleep
    during the day -- you might try moving his bedtime a little later
    (which will probably happen if you start reading books and having
    a bedtime snack) or shortening his daytime naps. 
    
    --bonnie

    I've been reading back thru some of my earlier notes in this topic, and
    thought I'd put in an update.  I've been continuing to bring one bottle
    to daycare for him to dring in the morning, and giving him another one
    before he goes to sleep at night.  Lately, I've been forgetting about
    the morning one on the weekends and Marc didn't ask, but he always
    asked for one at night.  
    
    Last week, I innocently asked him if he'd like to give all his bottles
    to Jason (his new baby cousin), and amazingly, he said yes.  (This was
    my mother's idea... she thought it would be easier for him to give them
    to _somebody_, rather than just have them disappear).  He helped me put
    them all in a box and take them down to the basement.  He's asked for
    one once or twice since, and I reminded him that we gave them to Jason,
    and this was fine with him.  He even recited "bye bye bottles" (the
    title of a book we have).  I made sure my daycare provider knew we gave
    the bottles to Jason, in case he asked for one during the day. (This
    isn't entirely fiction... I might actually give them to my sister!)
    
    I think at 21 months he doesn't need the sucking anymore, and is also
    old enough to agree to give them away.  (If he'd said no, I wouldn't
    have pushed the issue).
    
    Now, how do I get him to drink 16 ozs./day of milk from a cup?  I guess
    he'll get used to it... so far he'll only drink a few sips, but plenty
    of water or juice.

    
    Deb,
    
    Are you sure that Marc needs to drink 16oz of milk a day?  I told
    our pedi at Jason's 18 month checkup (after he was off the bottle)
    that we were lucky if he was taking 6-10 oz. of milk a day.  She
    told me not to overlook milk "equivalents" such as cheese, yogurt,
    cottage cheese, ice cream, pudding, milk in his cereal, etc. that 
    might be in his diet; adding to his calcium/fat intake.  After
    considering how much of those other things he eats and the fact
    that he's in the 50-75% on weight and height, I don't really worry 
    that he's not drinking enough milk.
    
    Carol

    re .61
    If he's eating cheese and yogurt he's getting calcium through that too,
    so the 16 oz. of milk might be a bit much to hope for. Check with you
    pedi.
    
    Your idea of giving them away was great - we found that with Ryan's
    pacifier, when HE decided to to throw it away, it was no problem. I
    think that if we'd TAKEN it away instead, it might have been more
    traumatic. You gave Marc the choice the and he made it - so in his
    mind, it sounds like it was easier for him.
    

    
    When did you break your children of the bottle? My daughter will be a
    year old in two weeks and she currently has 3 bottles a day. She drinks
    from a cup at breakfast, lunch and dinner. And has a bottle before
    bedtime and a juice or two in a bottle during the day. Sometimes only
    2 bottles a day total. I just don't know how soon to do break stop. 
    I remember that I sucked my thumb intill the age of 9. My mother said 
    it was because she took me off the bottle too early, but I don't agree.
    My daughter on the other hand doesn't suck her thumb or her fingers and
    never has. 
    
    
    What did you do?
    
    
    Sandy

We stopped the bottle when Nicole threw it across the room when Lisa went to
answer the phone.  I think it was around 9 months.

Bob

    We took Steven off the bottle at 14 months, cold turkey.
    Just packed them away after the New Year's and he never
    really cared that they were gone.  When he asked for a
    "bubba" we handed him a sippy cup and said this is your
    bubba.
    
    Soon after that, Steven started forming attachments to
    his blanket and stuffed animals.  I think we probably
    took him off the bottle just in time, before he got
    too attached to it.
    
    He still calls his sippy cup "bubba" though.
    
	Linda

    We took Alexander off the bottle at around 15 months cold turkey just
    like Linda in .2.  He used to aske for it at bedtime, but I would tell
    him that he was a big boy and didn't need his bottle anymore cuase big
    boys didn't drink out of bottles and he was fine.
    
    Know when he sees a bottle at my brother's he picks it up and gives it
    to there baby girl and says "sammie's bottle".  
    
    He has also gotten attached to his stuffed animals and his Ernie doll
    whom he sleeps with.
    
    Liz

    David gave his bottles up on his own at around 18 months. 
    
    He had been on the verge of giving them up at 14 months, then had
    a minor illness with sore throat and only wanted the bottle.  He
    had been using a cup and nothing else at the sitter's for some
    time, so ability wasn't an issue.  But he seemed really upset when
    he didn't get an evening bottle as soon as he got home.
    
    I had been starting to wonder if I should push the issue when he
    just lost interest.  
    
    I think it may have been a comfort object, a sign of parental love
    during a difficult emotional stage or something.
    
    --bonnie

    At Christina's one year check-up the Pediatrician asked if she was
    still using a bottle...OF COURSE we said.  Just to see what happens we
    took it away that night.  She didn't miss it.  We had a hard time
    believing that she would get enough without it - but she adjusted
    to the cup within days!

    This may already be buried somewhere in the begining of this note, but
    in any case, AJ started giving up his bottle somewhere around 11 months
    due to peer pressure, well sort of.  He went to a new home daycare
    situation and was aware that some of the (older, but he didn't know
    that) kids were drinking from sippy cups, not bottles.  One night we
    brought him home, we used to give him a bottle of milk in the high
    chair to keep him satisfied til his supper was ready, and he pretty
    much threw it back at us, and demanded a cup.  Outside of an occational
    bottle at bedtime, or one early in the morning if he woke up before I
    was willing to get up on weekends (5:30 is TOO early on weekends!) he
    pretty much self-eliminated the bottle.
    
    Lyn

    I wish I had time to reread all the replies.  
    
    Here's the situation, a friend of mine (the grandmother in this case)
    has her daughter and her 2 year old grandson living in the house.
    
    It's a tough situation that has really had some very positive aspects
    of it though.  The daughter lost her husband, at 24, to a sudden
    cardiac arrest, when she was 7 months pregnant.  Shortly after delivery
    she moved back home to her parents house.  The girl's father, my
    friend's husband died suddenly of cardiac arrest before the baby was 7
    months old.  So now it's grandmother (late 40's early 50's) who's
    retired from a 30 year career, now enjoying several social clubs and
    selling real estate part time.  The daughter who is just finishing up a
    degree (full time school) and hopes to land a job soon, while my friend
    is the primary babysitter.
    
    The grandmother has recently expressed what seems to be frustration of
    not being able to enjoy the freedom of retirement, but what seems to be
    the key issue here is that the child, now a couple months past his
    second birthday is still drinking (I'm pretty sure) only on a bottle. 
    Just last week the conversation was something like, "I'd like to put
    him in part time daycare, but who's going to take him still in diapers
    and on a bottle. I assured her the diapers were NOT a problem, but
    wasn't sure what to say about the bottle.
    
    I'm wondering if there might be some tackful way to suggest they put
    some effort into getting this child on a cup.  He's positivley HUGE!
    he wear's my son's (size 4 and5) hand me downs, and is just the
    happiest baby I've ever met, and seems well adjusted in every other
    way. 
    
    While cleaning closets yesterday I found three of AJ's old sippy cups
    and would like to give them to her, but not quite sure how to suggest
    she start using them NOW! 
    
    Any ideas, I guess my transition from bottle to cup went so smoothly I
    can't really remember just how it went.
    
    Lyn

IMO, being on a bottle isn't a big deal, but being on *only* a bottle is!

I would just give her the sippy cups and tell her all about how wonderful
it is for a child not ready yet for an adult cup, and how AJ liked it so
much, etc.  See if she tries it.

heh heh.  The idea of me giving advice on tact!

      Ms. Tactless (who is trying to learn!)

    Sounds like the grandmother would welcome some help/support.  She is
    all for moving this child on to the next stages....Tell her you were
    cleaning and found some of AJ's old sippy cups and thought she would
    like to try them.
    
    I, too, would remind her that 2 yr old in diapers is not uncommon and
    it would be fine to get him into a daycare center now.
    
    -sandy
    

Juli's daycare center takes "toddlers only", starting at 15 months of age
... so they get the late walkers, some still napping "with bottles" and
LOTS of diapers!

They will honestly and openly tell you that a bottle "during the day" is
unacceptable -- cups only (but they will "wean" the child from the napping
bottle -- no cold turkey!).

Potty training is encouraged, but left up to the parents discretion.

Juli started there at 17 months, a strong walker/runner/climber and no
bottles (for 3+ months)... not that we didn't have adjustments to make in 
"other ways"!!!

Dottie

    Good Afternoon,
    
    I have a quick question for you experienced parents out there.  Spencer
    is 11 1/2 months and I took his bottle away this weekend.  He drinks
    well out of a cup and eats well balanced meals.  My question is even
    though he drinks well from a cup, he is drinking much less liquid now
    that he does not have a bottle is this O.K.  How much should he be
    drinking?  Also now that he does not have his bottle he needs more
    snacks to tied him over till meal times.  Can you give me snack ideas 
    besides rice cakes, cheerios, yogurt and cookies.  How old were your
    kids when you took away their bottles is this a good age if he is
    eating well balanced meals?
    
    Thanks,
    Joanne
    

    My son Shane was 15 months old yesterday.  I started him on a cup at
    about 8 months old.  For the past three months he's been off the bottle
    except for one at bed time.  Last week I decided that enough was enough
    and that I was sick of having to change his sheets every morning because 
    he was drinking too much liquids just before bed time, so I took the
    bottle away and gave him a sippy cup full of milk instead.  He doesn't
    miss the bottle at all and he's not soaked up to his neck every morning
    either.
    
    Lori B.
                                                           

Hi Joanne,

    I had exactly the same concern when I weaned Michelle from the bottle
at about a year.  As a matter of fact I think I asked the same question 
someplace in this notes file (not sure where) :-)

    Our experience was that within a couple weeks her liquid intake increaced
to just about what it was before weaning.  Babies and very young children
are excellent self-regulators.  It is highly unlikely that he will not get
enough to drink.  Unless he has fewer than three very wet diapers a day there
is no cause for alarm.

- Carol

    When I mentioned to my sister inlaw that I planned on encouraging the
    cup soon, she warned me that her experience with her daughter was that
    the amount of liquids decreased quite a bit.  Needless to say this left
    me feeling a little anxious about my move.
    
    To my surprise, the cup was a novelty and to this day he has had no
    problem taking sufficient amounts from the cup.  The sippy covers seem
    to present as a novelty too, and he'll drink more if it has a cover for
    some reason. (not that he needs it at 4.5+)
    
    Lyn
    

    Another situation:
    
    My daughter turned 2 yesterday.  She still insists on a bottle first 
    thing in the morning.  While at the sitter's house all day, it's just
    cups and sippy seals.  Then, when we get back together at home, she
    only wants the bottle again.
    
    We have tried telling her that she is a "big girl" now and should
    be using the cup at all times.  This has caused many a tantrum and 
    then her defense is not to drink at all.
    
    We have decided to sit her down with all the remaining bottles and have
    her put them into a bag with us and then we will put them away - for
    good.
    
    Does this sound like it will be more effective because she is taking
    part in the act of getting rid of the bottles?
    
    Any advice is welcome.
    
    Thanks,
    
    -Patty

Elise is 13 months (tomorrow), and in the last week gave up her afternoon
bottle voluntarily.  (Well, let's say she *thinks* she wants it - grabs it and
sucks twice - then throws it down to go do something more interesting).

So, I plan to wait a few more weeks, then lose the early morning one, and see
what her reaction is.  If she doesn't seem to miss it, then we're thru with
bottles.

I just don't know tho, she still likes her plug, so maybe she still wants to
suck sometimes.  I'll have to ask her (boy, am I looking forward to English,
instead of pointing and yelling).

    
    
    	Does anyone have any idea when a child becomes capable
    	enough to actually know what to do with the cup or 
    	capable enough to hold it on their own, etc?
    
    	My daughter will be ten months old in a couple of weeks
    	and I know the guideline for going off the bottle is
    	anywhere from 12-18 months...
    
    	Thanks,
    	/Kim

"Capable" will be a learned process.  I think the learning part here is that
they have to suck differently.  My niece (now 8 1/2 months old) doesn't quite
have the hang of the sucking part (getting milk in mouth and closing mounth
before it all falls out...8^) ).

My 11 year old niece never took a bottle.  She went from breast
to cup at nine months old (mom did hold the cup for her until she could).  My
6 year old went from bottle to cup at 13 months, but began using the cup at meal
time at 9 months.  My 4 year old had his bottle until 22 months, but used the cup
for milk at meals, etc since 10 months or so.

-sandy

	
	I'm a first time mom myself but here's my take on it:

	My daughter is just over 10 months and I have been giving 
	her juice or water in a sippy cup for about 3 months now.
	I read that the earlier you get them used to it the better
	off you are.  That way she won't be soley used to a bottle
	and be reluctant to give it up for something so foreign.

	Right now Megan get milk, water, and juice out of her cup
	and she loves it.  After she gets her formula in her trusty
	ole bottle.

	Lately though she seems to be far more fascinated at how the
	sippy cup can also act as a sprinkler device!

	Who knows!  You may get lucky like my mother!  She said that
	when she was weaning my sister from being breast feed to having
	milk from a cup, she took to it right away.  Being the laid back
	person that my sister is, she decided that this was a much
	easier way to get milk and never went back to my mother!

	Wendy

    For both my kids, cup was introduced around 9 months old.
    Eric was off bottle at 15 months old, Monica was off bottle
    at 13 months old.
    
    Both my kids can hold the cup and drink by themselves before
    turning 1 yr old.

    Kim,
    
    Shane started using a cup at around 6 months old.  By the time he was a
    year old he was down to just a bottle at bed time and within a week of
    him turning a year old, he was off the bottle completely.
    
    If your daughter is 10 months old, I would say, start her with a cup
    soon and get her used to it.  Substitute the cup for her bottle
    eliminating one bottle feeding at a time until you're down to no
    bottles at all.  I'm sure your day care provider will help you with
    this one.
    
    Lori B.

    My two drank from a regular cup (with our help, of course!) from 3
    mos on.  Chris used his bottle till 11 mos, Jason till 13 mos.  They
    both transitioned to a regular cup without much trouble.
    
    One interesting thing did happen though .... centuries ago when I was
    real uptight about "kid's bad habits", and for some unknown reason,
    straws bothered me, we never let Chris use a straw.  MONTHS later, we
    tried to get him to use a straw and he _couldn't do it_!  He had lost
    his ability to suck, and it took ~ another 6 mos to get him back into
    it.  With Jason we used a straw regularly.  It's fairly inconvenient
    not being able to use a straw (like w/ a carton of milk ....).
    
    Happy New Year!

    
    I have decided that it's time to start introducing Anna to a cup. She
    is 8 months old. Now I'm not expecting great wonders but I also don't
    know what to expect. She always wants to drink from our cups and if I
    let her have a sip she does okay. Now when I give her a cup with a 
    lid (be it Tupperware or one of the ones from her dish sets) she takes
    the cup and puts it too her mouth and then makes the strangest face
    like she hates the sippee spout. Is this normal due to the fact it's
    nothing like a nipple?? She's still working on the tipping the cup back
    so I help with that and when the liquid goes in her mouth she again
    reacts like it's the grossest thing in the world. So is all this normal
    and will it go away in time as she gets used to the cup??
    
    Patty

    Patty, a suggestion for you little one to help determine if it's the
    cup, the spout or perhaps something else.
    
    I *think* evenflow brand makes an insert for the bottle.  It's a sippy
    spout that replaces the nipple only. I found mine at toys R Us in
    Auburn.  They still have the familiarity of holding the bottle, but the
    experience of drinking from the sippy spout.  Then you can gradually
    introduce the two handled, round bottom cup with the same spout.
    
    Personally, I think AJ's biggest problem was that the spout is hard,
    and not flexible like a nipple.  He never really chewed on is as such
    but I think he was having trouble having something hard in his mouth,
    he was not able to suck on it. Perhaps that's what's happening.
    
    Just my thoughts....
    Lyn
    

    
    Thanks, Lyn. I give a look for that. She puts so much stuff in her
    mouth and chews/sucks on it that it's confusing to see her reaction
    to the sippee cup spout. 
    
    Patty

    In either this version, or the earlier one, someone spoke highly of the
    MagMag cup system.  I bought one on that recommendation, and it was a
    great cup.  You can use it first with a regular nipple, then a soft
    sippy, then a straw, and finally, the lip of the cup.  (It actually
    comes with two cups, the various tops, a lid to use when you are
    carrying a drink for later, and a handle.)
    
    It worked great for Gina.  I think I got it at Toys 'R Us for about
    $18.00.  While it certainly isn't cheap, it is worth the money.
    
    judy

    I'm the one who was/still is a great advocate of the Magmag cup system
    - it's a single cup that can have different things screwed on the top -
    nipple, sip spout, straw, and then trainer lid. We introduced it to
    Ryan at 6 months with a nipple attached, and gradually went to a sip
    spout. I plan to do the same with Christopher.
    
    From about 9 months onward, Ryan never saw a real bottle - only the cup
    with a nipple on it. At about a year, we got one of those little books
    that has pictures of everyday things that toddlers see, such as shoes,
    socks.... and a baby bottle. Ryan would look at the picture, then point
    at our empty ginger ale bottles that we save to take back to the store
    - he didn't even associate it with a baby bottle since he'd seen one
    rarely after we introduced the magmag cup.
    
    best of luck,
    

    I, too, am having difficulty getting Ashley to let go of the bottle.
    I began giving her a sippy cup with her meals at 5 months.  She is
    now 19 months and continues to request a bottle (even after drinking
    some milk from the cup.  Sometimes she'll ask for a bottle and
    we'll give her a cup and she'll refuse it....insisting that she have
    a bottle.
    
    I had hoped to have her weaned from the bottle between 12-16 months,
    but she's always been small (weight-wise) and a terrible eater so
    the doctor recommended (at her 10 month appointment) that we keep
    her on formula and continue the bottle.   She really enjoys it and
    even hugs it when we hand it to her.  She does not get the bottle
    in bed but does have at least 3 8oz bottles during the day (as well
    as juice).  
    
    For those of you who may have tried various methods, does gradually
    reducing the bottles work?  I feel terribly guilty about wanting
    to try cold turkey.  
    
    By the way, I saw a suggestion among these replies about cutting 
    juice down with water to get them to drink water.  Ashley gags
    whenever I try to give her water.....I've tried introducing it
    multiple times since she was 3 months old.  Thanks for the 
    suggestion.
    
    Lynn_who_had_an_incredibly_easy_time_getting_rid_of_Ashley's_pacifier
    

    Lynn
    
    If Ashley hates taking water, why don't you put water in her bottle.
    We thought of doing that with our son, Christopher, because he also
    has been begging for his bottle. He only drinks juice out of it, and
    when he was sick, we let him carry the bottle of juice around all
    day long, so he would get enough fluids. Now we just give him a cup,
    and if he refuses, then we just assume he didn't want the juice bad
    enough. Since he does know how to use the cup, we just give him that.
    
    He is 16 months, and after a couple of days of just giving him the cup
    instead of the bottle, he seems to have the hang of it. He doesn't seem
    to ask for the bottle anymore either. It's hard, but just have patience
    and it will work.
    
    -Sheila
    

    Actually I would have kept the pacifier til after you got rid of the
    bottles :-)
    
    Try eliminating one bottle and replacing it - consistently - with the
    cup, before getting rid of another one. That way she'll begin to know
    for example, that she always gets a cup at lunch....
    
    The other thing you could consider is a Magmag cup which has handles
    and a screw-on nipple as well as a sippy lid. That way you'd get her to
    disassociate a nipple with a bottle and then could gradually go to a
    sippy lid more often. I swore by the magmag, and have recommended it in
    this file numerous (probably too many) times.
    
    
    

    re: .93, .94
    
    	Thanks for the suggestions.  I guess the key here is to be
    consistent and patient.  
    
    Lynn