Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Re:0 if you are looking at cost as one of the critia on wether or not
    to adopt a child then I think you should really take a check on wether
    you really want to adopt a child...
    
    REK

Re .1, I don't believe that was Dot's intention when she wrote the
base note.  I believe she wants to be prepared for the costs.  Afterall,
she did state that they were considering this a few years down the road.
Kind of like we are started on our daughter's college fund so we will
be prepared when she reaches that stage.

Dottie,

You'll find agencies varies from no-fee to $10K or more. We went
with Luthern Social Services for our adopted Asian-American son.
That was three years ago. He cost $1700 but since then the fees
has jumped twice, first to $3500 then to 10% of gross yearly
income this past month (one of our friends adopted through the
same agency).

There are no set limits but most large companies have adoption
reimburstments that may cover a big portion of your fees.
(Taxable, BTW).

calvin

    Dottie:
    
    We adopted a semi-identified, newborn US baby (we joined "her" life at
    5 days of age).
    
    Approximate costs:
    
    $4000 agency fees (homestudy, legal fees, training, etc.)
      500 counselling (I guess they wanted a blessing on our marriage!)
     1000 adoption attorney (outside of the adoption agency - BEST invested
             cost of the ENTIRE adoption!)
     1500 medical expenses (bio mother did not have appropriate coverage
             for a c-section & extra nursery days)
    -----
    $7000 (approximate) TOTAL
    
    .  Most agencies require that everything's paid-in-full when baby's
       delivered to you.
    .  Digital will allow you to claim a "child to be adopted" from the
       date of placement (medical, dental, life, etc.)
    .  Most "to-be-adopted" children are covered under Massachusetts'
       Medicare Program (Julianne was, but we NEVER made a claim ... always
       used our HMO)
    .  A good bulk of the bio mother's medicals were paid by "her" BC/BS ... 
       the $1500 we paid were either:  deductibles, uncovered charges or
       claims not within the bio mother's BC/BS coverage.  We also got hit
       with some "extra" billings (doctor's and lab charges) re: premature
       complications, etc.
    
    Some of our friends have paid $10,000-15,000 for newborns (US
    adoptions).  Average waiting period for a newborn can be 6 years ...
    AND most agencies will not place a newborn with a parent whose age(s)
    exceeds a delta of 40 years between the child's age and the parent(s)'s
    age.
    
    Digital reimburses EACH employee $2500 for EACH child.  So Jim/I were
    each given the benefit (total: $5000, less taxes) for ONE child.
    If we had adopted twins, then it would have been $5,000 x 2 = $10,000,
    less taxes.
    
    Most agencies will "talk with you and kind-of ballpark your
    qualifications" prior to incurring the cost of entering into the adoption
    process.
    
    We got "started" via a coworker (and his wife) who were doing MARES
    (Massachusetts Adoption Resource Exchange Service) volunteer work.  We
    located a "sibling grouping" we were interested in and then got plugged
    into the right social worker.  Although that adoption fell through, we
    stayed with the social worker and agency.  Julianne came to us via
    a friend-of-a-friend-of-a-f-of-a-f...  No assistance from the SW or
    agency (and they still charged us a $4,000 fee!!!
    
    I'm glad Jim/I did NOT know the full financial impact of Julianne's
    adoption, as it's only HUMAN NATURE to be "totally frightened" by the
    numbers (which were the lowest of all our friends' adoptions!).  We are
    still recovering, 11 months later!
    
    Would it have made a difference?  NO WAY!  But NOT knowing the full
    impact allowed us to be more carefree, excited and confident about her
    arrival -- without worrying too much about the $$'s.  We did survive
    it, Dottie ... and you will, too.   Only regret is that we didn't hire
    OUR PERSONAL adoption attorney PRIOR to Julianne's birth, as we did end
    up getting "suckered into expenses" (e.g. medicals, agency's legal
    fees, etc.) which we verbally agreed upon NOT to be responsible for 
    -- unfortunately, our attorney came on board "after the fact" and had 
    to "close the barn door AFTER the horse got out!" ... but we thank 
    God everyday he's "with us and will always be with us!".
    
    Good luck, Dottie, and please feel free to contact me if I can help you
    in any way.   Adoption is one of the most difficult emotional roller
    coasters you'll ride in a lifetime, so get a good, solid grip and ride
    it out ... the reward will sure be worth it!!!  And don't hesitate to
    lean on the shoulders of those who HAVE survived the process ... tap on
    their strengths and faith ... they've been there, too ... and they
    won't mind if you lean on them while you ride out the process ... if it
    weren't for Nick and Jan Capello, Jim/I would have tossed in the towel
    years ago! ... so lean on me ANYTIME, Dottie.
    
    Good luck ... and God Bless,
    Dottie
    

    If you adopt through the state agency in Mass there is no fee.
    
    Bonnie

    
    Bonnie:
    
    I may be confused on this ... but when Jim/I looked into Massachusetts
    DSS adoptions, I thought the "state" only covered the placement fee for
    children OVER the age of 2 (as these kids are considered "difficult 
    to place").
    
    When Jim/I did pursue a "state" newborn, we were told we'd have to pay
    to have our homestudy updated, along with other costs.  So I believe
    both "state" (Massachusetts) and "private" agencies CHARGE for newborn
    placements.  Many of our friends have adopted "newborns" and none were
    successful getting one from the "state" -- all have been "private"
    placements.
    
    One lady (I recently met) said she got her first newborn (via the
    state) because her father-in-law was a doctor.   Her second newborn was
    identified via her church clergy.  Her third child was older (over 2).
    All three were handled via the "state".
    
    Another tidbit of info Jim/I discovered during the process was that our
    medical forms clearly asked for a "medical reason for infertility".  We
    "think" perhaps a couple who DEFINITELY can't have kids may be favored
    over a couple who "should be able to ... but can't seem to".
    
    I never said the adoption process was fair ... easy ... or within the
    normal family's budget!  
    
    But don't throw in the towel, Dottie.  Where there's a will, there is
    always a way!
    
    Dottie
    

    re: .1
    
    I don't see what's wrong with checking out the cost of an adoption.
    It doesn't mean we won't adopt...it just means we are smart enough
    to be prepared. It really bugs me that the minute money was mentioned,
    it was immediatley assumed that the intention was not honest  or
    somthing. 
    
    Thanks every one for your info and support. I was glad to hear that
    Lutheran Social Services did adoptions as I was raised a Lutheran.
    I was wondering about Aid Association for Lutherans as another place
    for info.
    
    BTW we are considering an older child of 4 or 5 years. But if a
    baby came along, we wouldn't be picky! I'm saving all our equipment
    just in case (and a ton of baby clothes).
    
    Dottie-- I will definitly let you know if I need a shoulder to lean
    on. Thanks!!
    
                                             
    
    Dot

    re: LSS
    
    I don't know if they still do, but when I was considering whether
    my best course was to give the baby that turned out to be Kat up
    for adoption, Lutheran Social Services would assist you with the
    expenses of an adoption, whether you were putting the child up for
    adoption or looking to bring a child into your home. 
    
    You don't have to be Lutheran to go through LSS, and they also
    provide things like general family and individual counselling to
    help you decide whether adoption is really what you want to do. 
    They were generally very helpful and concerned with the individual
    and what was best for him/her/them. If I had gone through with the
    adoption, it would have been semi-identified -- I would have
    learned a great deal about the situation into which my baby was
    placed, and they would have learned a great deal about me, but
    without meeting or learning names.  They didn't put any pressure
    on me either way, and when I decided to keep the baby, they
    supported me in that, too. 
    
    Unlike the government agencies I dealt with, about which I
    couldn't say enough bad things.  So I won't even start.
    
    --bonnie

    
    Dot:
    
    You are SO right to evaluate finances BEFORE-hand.  But if you're
    looking to adopt a child above the age of 2, you will see a DRASTIC
    change in "cost", eg:
    
    .  You pay the "application fee" (~$300) and the agency is reimbursed
       (by the state?) for almost all other expenses:
    
    		.  homestudy
    		.  training
    		.  legal costs
   		.  counselling (for child(ren))
    
    .  I know of some instances where "during the interium" (between
       placement and finalization - at least 6 months), you get a weekly
       stipend for the children (not a lot, I believe about $50 or so).
    
    .  I also know that in "some instances" if it's deemed that the
       child(ren) NEED daycare (eg. interaction with other children, etc.),
       that, too, "might" be picked up the agency (state?)
    
    .  I believe ALL children "in the adoption process" are covered by
       Medicare  (until the age of 18 or adoption is finalized).  I know
       of one situation where the kids were covered EVEN AFTER adoption.
    
    BOTTOM LINE:  There's a LOT of "older, hard to place" kids (>2)
    desperately seeking a "home" with "family", and the agencies and state
    KNOWS that whatever stipend or reimbursement they provide an adopted
    parent is still "only a drop in the bucket" compared to the overall
    cost of raising this child ... and well beyond cost, is the LOVE and
    INVESTMENT the "whole family" gives to this child(ren).
    
    I can't think of a better way for the state to spend money than to help
    families open their hearts and homes to these children!!!  And you'll
    still end up spending FAR MORE than any state reimbursement or assistance!
    
    I'm routing for you, Dot!
    
    Dottie

    Dottie (in re .6)
    
    My appologies, my only 'state' adoption was of a 7 year old special
    needs child, for which there was no fee. We were quite pleased with
    the social worker that helped us with Stevie.
    
    However, our other adoptions were with Catholic Charities of Boston
    who were quite good, but of course charge a fee. 
    
    I do believe that state fees are lower than private or they used to be.
    
    Bonnie

In the Philadelphia area "Golden Cradle" is a private adoption agency
that is supposed to be pretty good for adopting babies born in the US.
The waiting time is lower than the norm.  A standard thing you do is
house one of the pregnant mothers (not the one whose baby you get).
This encourages mothers to give their babies up for adoption instead
of having abortions and really gets the adoptive parents involved
in the pregnancy part.

-Amy

    
    Bonnie:
    
    Yes, I "too" think the state fees are lower than the private agencies,
    BUT ...
    
    unfortunately, what Jim/I found was that DSS (state) kids have usually
    been victimized by "the process" for so long (e.g. abuse has occurred
    many, many times before the state becomes involved, only to have the
    parents drag out and buck the process for yet "longer, critical time")
    that by the time the state FINALLY gets custody of the kids, the kids
    have deep physical and/or emotional scars.   Many of these kids have
    "siblings" (and Jim/I have very strong commitments about keeping
    brothers/sisters TOGETHER!).
    
    Also, the older the child is when it's taken into custody ... OFTEN
    means the deeper the scars and they've already "molded" such that it can
    be difficult to "help" them.  And I've also heard of a few cases where the
    "older kids" are SO happy and appreciative of the opportunity to have a
    family and home, they actually bend-over-backwards to please you.  I
    feel BOTH of these situations can be "very difficult" on the children
    AND adoptive parents/family -- not to mention the "interium time" that
    these kids are often bounced from foster care to foster care while
    their "release for adoption" legal issues are resolved (as the state
    typically does NOT to place a child "potentially" free for adoption in 
    it's "potential" adoptive home).
    
    The state also gets a large number of "handicapped" children who are
    abandoned either at birth, or shortly after.
    
    Private agencies "typically" get kids which the parents have 
    VOLUNTEERILY surrendered.  So OF COURSE these kids usually won't have 
    the physical/emotional scars that many of the state kids do.  All kids
    will have to adjust to the emotions of "severance" and a new life with
    "strangers" (who are magically and instantly "family"!) ... and then add
    the extra burden of abuse ... and it can be overwhelming (at best) for
    any child!
    
    Thank goodness we adopt for the LOVE OF THE CHILDREN! (as it's not 
    always an easy "life" for the kids or their adoptive parents/families!). 
    
    Dottie
    

    Dottie,
    
    I agree with you that 'state' kids are usually more troubled
    and have longer histories of abuse, foster care, etc etc..
    
    our 15 year old son is a �'special needs' kid... he was 7 when we
    adopted him and he'd had 3 major and several minor foster placements
    by that time..
    
    Stevie was one of the lucky ones, he is a gentle and loving person
    who seems to have taken no serious harm from his time in limbo..
    
    tho I do sometimes wonder how much further he'd have progressed
    if he'd had one family to act as a consistant advocate for those
    first 7 years.
    
    if a person is not uncomfortable with retarded or physically
    handicapped, or mixed race kids, there are younger children available
    through the state - or used to be.
    
    Get in touch with MARE and ask to see their book of pictures
    of waiting kids.
    
    Bonnie

    Dot:
    
    I've been fortunate enough to adopt a Korean baby though Wide Horizons
    for Children (formerlly International Adoptions INc.) of Waltham, MA. 
    Three years ago the total waiting time was 2 1/2 years and the fees
    totaled about $6,000.  Korea is now longer accepting applications from
    families but there are programs with other countries -- some of which
    require that the parents travel and stay in the foreign country to
    begin the adoption process.
    
    We're about to begin our second adoption and the fees have increased
    substantially -- this child will be from a South American country and
    by the time we pay the agency fees ($5300 cap), and the foreign country
    fees ($8,100 + travel expenses for us) the total will be $15-17K!!
    
    While this may not be the case with all agencies and/or programs it
    seems to be consistent for all the countries that Wide Horizons has
    programs with.  After having suffered through two miscarriages and
    finally getting my wonderful daughter, the last word is the IT'S WORTH
    IT -- all the emotional ups and downs, the expenses, and the paperwork
    is worth being able to be a parent at last!
    
    Good luck to you - my advice is don't wait to start this process - no
    matter which agency you work with the process is long, complex and
    bureaucratic - esp. when dealing with foreign government and foreign
    adoption agencies.  Start checking out agencies in Pennsylvania as soon
    as you can.......
    
    If you need just general info and advice about agencies in PA feel free
    to call Wide Horizons at (617)894-5330.  Good luck to you -- you'll
    find a great deal of support amoung other adopting parents -- there
    are more out there than you think!
    
    -- Kay Ben-Aroch
    (daughter: Michelle - 1 1/2 (going on 2!)