Conference moira::parenting_v3

    I want to address the friends on family vacation issue rather than
    the rules part, ok? 
    
    The kids wanting to include others while on family time is a problem
    I have faced before.  Usually I compromise.... this time the friend
    may come if next time... or some such deal.  Its the classic parental
    need to hold the family together while the kids pull away.  I would go
    by the insistence of the kid(s) how much does it mean to her to have
    the friend along?  Can you negotiate a deal so that you still get some
    family time at times?  Maybe one of the rules could set limits on how
    often friends may come on family vacations?  Jeff

A few issues that come to mind:

	- You'd need to settle with the friend's parents about who pays for
	  what.  If you're going camping, that may not be a big deal.  But
	  if you're going to a lot of places that charge admission, or you
	  eat at restaurants, that could be expensive.

	- What will you say to your son if he wants someone also?  Is there
	  room in the car, etc. for everybody?

	- Will there be any "chaperoning" problems?  Will hormones make having
	  an unrelated person of the opposite sex a pain to manage?  Will you
	  all be dressing, sleeping, etc.  in the same room?  This will be 
	  especially difficult if your son brings along somebody.

Clay

    John (.3), I think you could be jumping to conclusions.  For one you
    assume the boy is even remotely interested in the girl.  Secondly you
    assume that the conditions might make it possible for him to take
    advantage of the situation.  Neither of those could be true.
    
    In high school my best friend had all brothers.  Every year her family
    lived on a house boat at Lake Powell for a month - and every year she
    was bored out of her mind.  Her parents let her take me along one year,
    and we had a blast.  We all slept in sleeping bags on top of the house
    boat and once her oldest brother tried unzipping my bag.  After that
    night my friend made sure to sleep between us every night and nothing
    else happened.  It would have been a shame (especially for her) if her
    parents had not let me come because of that potential problem.
    
    I also have two brothers, and hated family vacations.  My parents had
    each other, and so did my brothers - I felt sorta left out.  Each time
    we planned a vacation I would beg to take a friend.  I couldn't in most
    cases because of the cost, and would decline to go.  I have vivid
    memories of standing on the front porch watching the car drive away
    with all of my family, wishing that I was there (but had a friend too)
    - then going inside and bawling because I didn't go!  But if I went
    along and didn't have a buddy I would have been miserable too.
    
    I think it is a good suggestion to work out the financials beforehand,
    so you aren't stuck paying for a friend.  And if you truly like her
    friend, there is no reason your family cannot grow and become closer,
    even with her along (I did with my friend's family - I still call them
    mom and dad ever since that trip!).
    
    Kristen

    A few suggestions, from experience. Sorry if it sounds prescriptive,
    I don't mean to be !
    
    1. Kids and parents have very different values about what is a "good"
    vacation. We think in terms of rest, something different, building
    the family relationships. Kids think in terms of getting away from
    the family, doing "their thing", which is usually not "our Thing"
    
    2. Try having the buddy over for a weekend before going off for aweek
    or two. A pilot scheme is always a good idea before full
    implementation.
    
    
    3. Agree ground rules like the buddy has to accept your family norms.
    Eg if your daughter is used to being screamed at " stop biting your
    finger nails " then her buddy has to accept the same.
    
    4. Think and talk through what changes the buddy will mean. Eg your
    daughter can go for longer walks now because she is not alone. How
    much longer, where etc.
    
    5. Agree expenses right up front. Not only meals / accommodation
    / treats but also pocket money. A big disparity in pocket money
    is embarrassing for all. Also any family norms on how pocket money
    may be spent.
    
    6. You can use the presence of the buddy as development for your
    own daughter. EG when camping you might suggest daughter and buddy
    take total responsibilty for a meal -  menu / buying / cooking when
    daughter might look on this  as an unfair chore wife solo.
                                                        
    
    7. Make sure buddy's parents buy in to your proposals. And you buy
    in to what they expect you to do !
    
    Have fun....DejW

    If possible, see if the friend could come for part of the week, and
    either be picked up or dropped off by a parent... that way your
    daughter has companionship for part of the week, and you have some
    family time as well.  I've witnessed this second hand with my 14 year
    old babysitter - she's visiting friends all over the place this summer
    while they're on vacation, in addition to sharing her vacation with
    friends.
    
    REgards,
    Lynn
    

WOW !! Does someone have ESP ? Several replys referred to camping.
Thats exactly what we do. The replies have been good. Some additional
info. My son isn't interested in taking a friend and the friends that
my daughter have he has no interest in. As far a sleeping is concerned
he has this own tent. Some of my concern is finances. Having never
been in this situation before I'm really looking for what others have
done. 

dave    

    
    If camping is all you are doing adding a little more food usually is 
    not a problem(I tend to cook/prepare more that mine will eat).
    If I can afford to I would tell the parent not to bother about
    it but the child must have these(Provide list) idems and an emergency
    Medical release.
    
    If we are camping and traveling and plan to go to several places
    that would require addmission fees I would let them know.
    If I were sending my daughter or son with someone else I would
    give the adults in charge some 'emegency' money and would ask
    that they reemburse themselves for the surprise activities or
    use some of the money to treat the family to a special activity
    they would not normaly had done. I.E. Go to nearest town for an
    'ice cream break' in the middle of the afternoon.
    
    
    Did I mention that I am a Girl Scout Leader? 
    Make sure you have the Emegency release. You just want to
    be prepared if something should happen.
    I know I have sent my daughter on family camping trips with 
    her friends and not thought to give them a release.
    On one occation she was bite by a snake(gardner) and just hearing
    about it scared me as I went into what-if mode. I immediately
    thought rattler and near had a heart attack befor I registered
    that she was standing here just fine so it must not have been serious.
    Another time she was staying with other friends about hour out of the
    city and her friend ended up going to hospital with emergency
    appendectomy. As we were driving to pick her up. Several times 
    I thought what if this were Angela who was sick?  
    
    Aargh
    Sometimes I think I will never learn.
    Next time I will sign a medical release form. Even for a friend.
    janet

    I have a 16 year old step-daugher who last year asked if a friend could
    join us for 2 weeks in Turkey (we were going to be there for about 7
    weeks). This friend's mother owns a Turkish carpet store so her parents
    were very excited to have her come. We didn't really mind her coming
    but I wish we had known the girl first. My step-daughter made the
    mistake of making the vacation sound like she didn't have any
    responsibility to help out. We were with family and everyone pitches in
    with dinner, cleaning up, etc. This girl was not a choice of friend we
    would really like to see our duaghter with. (They are now just
    aquintainces but still swim together). She rarely said thank you and
    never offered to pay her way into anything. My in-laws did ask that
    Sibel not bring her back and Sibel told her she was a little rude in
    the way she acted. 
    
    This age can be very boring for teenagers on vacation. They want to do
    what they want to do even though it might be the same sight seeing as
    the parents want to see but they want to do it their way. 
    
    I would definitely say know the friend first. If they don't say thank
    you after dinner in your home, they won't when you pay for something on
    vacation. If they aren't helpful here they won't be much help camping.
    
    Personally, I wouldn't worry about any "sexual" issues because any kid
    who took liberties like that under the care of another adult just "cut
    their own throat", IMO.  
    
    As for rule, yes they do need to be worked out in advance. Do talk to
    the parents of the child yourself so they know what you are expecting
    from their child. 
    
    WE just concluded the second friend visit here in England. It was
    actually great for my step-daughter to have a friend here because all
    we needed to do was show them the train station, say be in the house
    before dark and they were off to London every day. This friend  was a
    wonderful girl and I'm glad my step-daughter is becoming a better judge
    of character. We did also set some rules as far as expenses and this
    girl didn't expect us to pay for anything and she was very helpful in a
    family situation (despite the fact that her room was a disaster area).
    
    Andrea
    

One thing that hasn't been mentioned here is the possibility that 
the two friends may get on each other's nerves after a while, being 
unaccustomed to spending so much time together, and being in new
situations together.  If you allow your child to bring a friend, be 
prepared to help them find ways to deal with friction, if it arises.

Definitely get a medical release form authorizing you to get medical
treatment for the child in an emergency.  I've been on both ends of
this kind of arrangement many times, and never had to actually use it,
but I sure wouldn't want to be without it in an emergency.

Sarah