Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Have you tried to spend some time with just her and really ask her
    whats going on ??  At 5 kids for the most part are still very open and
    candid.  I had some problems with my 5 year old and got some very
    honest replies which caused my wife and I to modify our behavior toward
    her.  It has worked out very much for the better.
    
    				pt

    Being a "middle kid" myself I felt for your daughter when I read your
    note.  The only difference between your situation and mine, was the
    fact that I was also the ONLY girl.  I don't remember much of my situation
    at five, but I can tell you I absolutly hated being in the middle.  The 
    best advise I could give would be treat her as an individual, talk to her 
    about things she like to do, and develop some activities from there.  Also,
    try to spend some special time with her away from her sisters.   I don't 
    have any "bad" memories or anything, just remember always playing referee 
    between them.   I have always told myself, I'ld  never have 3 kids.  
    Sorry I couldn't be of more help, just wanted you to know it is an 
    important issue not to be brushed aside (obviously you're not doing 
    that though).  
    
    GOOD LUCK
    
    Karen  
                                 

    Oh indeed we have tried sitting with her and talking to her and we get
    such things as "you're not being nice to me", "you don't love me",
    "you keep hurting my feelings", "why can't you get things for me?".
    
    We've been trying to give her a little more special attention the
    last few days and the inevitable happened ... the oldest complained
    that "it wasn't fair"!  You can please some of the people some of the
    time ....  Arrrrrgghhhh!
    
    I was the eldest of 4 kids, 6 years older than my next brother and
    so saw many of the effects of middle kid itis ... twice for by the time
    my youngest sister was born, I was 12 and pretty much out of the main
    competition when they reached this stage!
    
    We hurt for her too and we are working hard at giving her the attention
    she wants while trying to be as fair as possible.
    
    Thanks for the thoughts ...
    Stuart

    I've been going through this same thing myself.  I have two girls
    - Adrienne is 4 yrs old and Khristina is 6 months.  In the beginning
    Adrienne was fine with the baby (still is) always helping, loving
    and being Mommy #2 to her.  Now that the baby is getting to the
    stage of cooing, laughing, reaching and rolling Adrienne is acting
    differently - not towards the baby but towards Mommy and Daddy and
    grandparents (actually everyone)!  
    
    I don't think she is jealous??, but everytime the baby needs attention
    she tries to get in between me and the baby.  When Khristina is
    sleeping I spend all my time with Adrienne.  Her Dad does too. 
    We don't ignore her or anything like that.  Lately she keeps asking
    everyone is they love her and if she is a good girl.  Well, it breaks
    my heart to think that she may think that we care less for her.
    She had everybody's attention for 4 years before the baby came along
    and I am wondering if this has something to do with it.
    
    She does tend to push people to the limit.  When told not to do
    something, she will keep doing it until we start to count or say
    corner time.  I hate to have to keep scolding her, but she doesn't
    listen.  
    
    If anyone can shed some light as how to handle/deal with this, I
    would really appreciate it also.
    
    Denise

    I, too, only have two children (Krystal 5 1/2 yrs and Alex 2 yrs old). 
    About three months ago, Krystal had a problem of withdrawing when she
    didn't get her way (mostly at daycare).  We realized with both my
    husband's and my busy schedule, she was trying to tell us in her way
    that she needed more attention.  We started giving her praise and
    encouragement in things she did, as well as Alex who is going through
    the terrible twos, and she is doing alot better.  She still has her
    moments, but the withdrawal has diminished.  It was a real concern to
    us back then.                       
    
    

I think I'm heading toward the path of a severe case myself.

Kati has always been mommy's girl and has had my undivided attention.  If I
even look like I might pay attention to, play with, or worse yet PICK UP
another child she goes berserk!!!!!!!  She will go over and physically push
or slap the child, and try to remove them from my arms/lap/you-name-it.

If my dog (who was around way before Kati) gets too close to me she comes
and pushes her and says "no no."  But if Kati gets too close to me the dog
will come force herself between us.  If I'm out of the picture the two love
each other.

Baby #2 is due in just over 3 months and Kati talks about it all the time.
She pats my stomache and says baby, kisses my tummy, etc.  (She even thinks
SHE has a baby in HER tummy!).  But I don't think she knows what it means -
she's only 17 months.

Lately she does not like her daddy showing me affection.  If we hug or kiss
she screams and tries to break us apart.  If he holds my hand she runs over
and pulls his hand off of mine and holds my hand herself.  The only thing
that she will "allow" is a "family hug" with all 3 of us.

I just can't imagine what she's going to do in November - probably hate me
for a long long time.   I'm anxious for any and all advice on this...

Kristen

    Well, I'm sure you'll get somewhat of a hard time from her no matter
    what you do.  But the fact that she is already quite used to sharing
    you with your job (and spending the day at pre-school) will probably
    help.
    
    With Aaron, we spent quite a time talking about how boring babies were,
    and how they gave the big people in the house (parents and big kids)
    such a hard time in many ways.  Waking up through the night; crying;
    needing to be fed; . . . just generally bad news.  From the start, we
    tried to include Aaron in "looking after" Eric.  I think these things
    helped a good deal.  It also helped (later) that Aaron's mom was so
    exhausted the last six months that she was rarely awake when at home;
    so Aaron got used to little attention.  I don't necessarily recommend
    that to you.  We also waited for #2 until Aaron was 4 years old.  I
    definitely don't recommend that for you.
    
    		- Bruce

    In response to the basenote, this might be a passing phase.  I also
    have a five year old, and she is doing some of the same things yours is
    doing.  Complaining that so and so doesn't like her because he won't
    look at her, complaining about not getting to do what she wants, or her
    brother won't play with her so he must not love her.  All sorts of
    things along those lines.  And there's no reasoning with her either.
    
    Just this morning I asked her to keep an eye on her little brother
    Josh, 10 mos., while I tied her other brother's shoes.  Little Josh
    sort of cruised around the coffee table, ignoring her while she tried
    to interact with him, and you would have thought the world was coming
    to an end!  Josh doesn't like her anymore.. etc.
    
    I think there is something about the social development for girls this
    age where they are really reliant on other's constant positive
    reinforcement of their acceptability, their lovability.  I've been
    looking around for books for five year olds (on their development) but
    haven't found one yet.  Sometimes it's helpful to know that what your
    child is displaying for behaviour is quite normal for that age.
    
    Take heart!
    

    I was/am a middle child with two sisters.  My older sister was 8 when I
    was 5 and then my little sister showed up; so the ages are similar.
    My mom said that I didn't equate being the "middle" child until I was
    older but I did have problems and wasn't able to say "it's because I'm
    the middle child", etc.  - That came later on, and it's still a big
    joke NOW in my family.
    
    I think it's just such a struggle when you're in the middle.  You have
    your older sister who kind of wants you around but doesn't.  You aren't
    just like her, and you're little sister demands and gets alot of
    attention because she is still a baby.  I also think being between 2 of
    the same sex didn't help.  It would have been different had I at least
    1 brother instead of the TWO sisters - although now I wouldn't trade
    that for the world.
    
    My mom said that it was difficult for her and my dad at first because
    yes, you cannot just finger the middle one out and give her great
    things without giving the other two things....it backfires like it did
    in your case.  The middle one is quiet, the other two are jealous.
    In all honesty you can't really win.
    
    What my mom said they did with me was explain to me that even though
    Julie was older and first and Cheryl was younger and always would be,
    that they loved us ALL the same.  That that wouldn't change.  They also
    tried to find what it was that I LIKED to do and emphasize that.  I
    eventually didn't want to do what Julie did and didn't want to have
    what Cheryl had, as I did like your daughter did.
    
    And honestly to this day, my folks still tell us, 31, 28 and 23 that we
    are still very special individuals and they love us all because of
    that.  
    
    What's this all mean?  I don't think you'll ever get too far away from
    this.  I think it's very normal when you have 3 of the same sex.  Try
    to develop the middle one's interests into different things. My folks
    found out that I only liked the dolls because Julie did, and only
    wanted Cheryl's toys because I was jealous as well.  So, I eventually
    like Tonka trucks and my sisters didn't so my folks got me trucks when
    the others got what they liked.  My dad talked about fishing when I was
    little (just to see) and I expressed an interest and my sisters didn't
    so I got my first trip with Daddy fishing when I was only about 5 or 6
    and Julie stayed home and baked with mommy as did the little one.  They
    also played down the fact that I went with Dad and they didn't.  They
    played UP the fact that baking was special as was fishing, and we all
    felt needed, very loved, but individually special.
    
    I hope I didn't ramble on too much, and it's almost hard to put into
    words exactly what I'm trying to say.  I hope it's understandable?!
    
    Rebecca
    
    

    re .8
    
    Thanks ... I just had a call from my wife this morning telling me how
    hateful Hilary had been to her and how it had just come at the wrong
    time .... it had obviously gotten to her ... now I've got a wife to
    console too !!!!!!!! (Arghhhh the joys of living in a house with 4
    women :-) :-) :-) )  You are probably right, this hatefulness is
    probably in good part 5 year old itis too.
    
    re .9
    
    Thank you too ... I think I've seen something maybe we've missed.
    We've always stressed how much we love them all, no matter what
    they've done and so on.  We've always admired their achievements,
    but somehow maybe we've missed admiring their individuality.  We've
    avoided comparison, but never said it to them.  Maybe we've also tended 
    to expect them to walk a similar path ... we knew they were different
    paths but ...  I'm having a hard job expressing what I'm getting at
    here ... but maybe trying to push on some stereotyping.  Hmmm I'll
    think about that.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Stuart

    I'm a middle sister too.  Lorri is 2 years older and Karen is 4 years
    younger.  I don't remember too much about being 5, but I do know that
    individuality was important to me.  Lorri and I played together a lot
    when we were very little, but as we got older we definitely developed
    different interests and my parents really encouraged it.  I tended to
    spend a lot of special time with my Dad after Karen was born, doing
    things that Lorri wasn't really interested in.  We'd play catch, do the
    yard work, go to baseball games, etc.
    
    We lived in a three bedroom house when we were young, and at first
    Lorri and I shared a room after Karen was born.  When Karen was about
    2, I must have let them know that I'd like my own room, because Karen
    moved in with Lorri and I got the extra room.  I think this definitely
    helped me to feel important too.  I'm happy that my parents recognized
    my need for this and were willing to act on it -- luckily Lorri didn't
    mind!
    
    All in all, I liked being in the middle.  As we got to be teenagers, it
    was Lorri who was more often asked to watch Karen, while I was free to
    go off with my friends.  Also, I had a much easier time with the good old
    "adolescent stuff" because Lorri paved the way and my parents were more
    prepared for it the second time around.  On the other hand, I wasn't
    the one always getting the "you're too little" and being left behind.
    
    Being in the middle is becoming more of a struggle for me now than it
    was before.  For the first time since Lorri went off to college, we are
    all living in the same area and seeing more of each other.  I'm definitely
    closer to both Lorri and Karen than they are to each other (they
    disagree on lots of things), and that sometimes really puts me in the 
    middle!
    
    Good luck!
    
                                                        Tracy