Conference moira::parenting_v3

Yes I would also like some experienced words of wisdom.

Kati is only 16 months and tells us "no no no no no no no no" and shakes
her head no.  She has also learned "no way no way no way" in a matter-of-fact
voice, though I'm not sure if she knows what it means.  I guess I always
figured these children-creatures had a mind of their own, but I just never
knew how STRONG it would be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Looking forward to replies...
Kristen

You might learn that a negative response is ok in circumstances
which you asked and the response option might be a NO. Like do
you want supper or play. If you think ahead and control the
options.

If the response is a NO to something that involves safety or an
expressed desire for s/he to do something, you might try some
"time out".

cal

    Some things that worked for us: 
    
    Asking choice questions - "Would you like ham or chicken on your sandwich?"
    
    Also stating things - "It's time for dinner." instead of asking - "Are you
    ready for dinner?"
    
    There were times when all we got were NO answers, but it didn't last
    long.  Maybe we got smarter about the way we asked questions too.
    
    Debbie
    

My 2 year old says No in a bossing manner.  Examples "DON'T sing, Mommy"
or "You don't talk to me" or "You go away". I get the latter two alot when 
he's mad because I won't let him have something (i.e. crackers 10 minutes 
before supper time.)

At first I just ignored these bossy statements, thinking he was just being
2 and would stop on his own if I ignored them.  So far it hasn't worked.
Now when he says "You go away" we tell him it's not a nice thing to say
to someone.  When he says "You don't talk to me" I turn into my mother
and tell him not to sass me or he'll get a time-out.  I think I'll have to
get stricter because I really don't like him talking back to me.

Should I punish him for this?  Is he just being 2?  

sigh!

� �ori

< Note 110.4 by CHCLAT::HAGEN "Please send truffles!" >
                     -< How to handle negative bossiness? >-

� �ori

You bet! Sam earns time in the corner when he says things like
"Go away" when I try to wash his face after a meal (he hates face
washings even when he does it himself).

Yesterday, on his first
day home from vacation with grandma and grandpa, he refused to go
to bed at 9PM (we usually start our bed time preparations at 8
and by 9, he's uaually asleep, seeing that he was an hour off
from Pacific time, we allowed an hour). He refused to go upstairs
to start the bedtime process, diaper change, put on PJs, wash
feet and hands, brush teeth, hugs goodnight, etc. So by 9:15, he
was spending time in the corner.

calvin

    Robin started the loud NOs....and we adopted the simple
    policy that every loud NO earned him a few minutes in the
    time out chair.  NOthing dramatic....when he caught himself doing
    it he'ld starting heading there himself.  After a while
    he just stopped.
    bob

    I think that the children say NO a lot is because when they are
    small and do something they shouldn't WE are the one saying "NO"!
    to them.  Adrienne use to say that all the time to my husband and
    me.  They hear it so often maybe they think it's okay?
    
    Now that she is older we phrase things differently.  If she comes
    back with a NO she gets time in the corner or I'll aske her, "What
    did you say?" and she'll say nothing Mommy :-).  Kids, you gotta
    love em.
    
    Denise

    I have no advice....my daughter is 2 and has been saying "no" for 6
    months now.  It does help me to deal with it by knowing what's going on
    with her.  According to her Pediatrician and 2 books I've read, they
    are simply trying to control parts of their lives.  I'll give Mandy
    choices (juice or milk) and she'll say NO to both, but a minute later
    she'll ask for juice.  I just let it slide.  Also, time outs won't
    necessarily teach the child to stop a particular behavior.  They will
    continue the behavior until THEY feel like stopping, regardless of the
    number of times you have put them on time out.  I've found this to be
    very true.  Mandy KNOWS she is not to climb on the exercise bike so if
    she feels like getting some attention, she'll climb on the bike.  We've
    put her on time-out 10 times in one evening and she'll go right back
    to it.  The Pediatrician recommmends continuing to use time-outs anyway
    because it will at least teach a chile cause/effect
    (misbehavior/discipline) principals.  Mandy now puts her cow on time
    out....it's really hard not to laugh!
    
    Diana

    My main suggestion would be to get used to this.  If you let it get YOU
    upset, you're in for a lot of fights.  In a two year old, it is
    typically an expression of a (healthy) drive for independence, a
    resistance to parental control.  But a two year old can't neatly 
    distinguish personal preference issues (what color t-shirt to wear
    today) from matters of safety (crossing the street without holding
    hands), as a parent feels they ought to.  Nor can two year olds
    maintain external behavior (being polite, cooperative, . . .) that is
    separate from their internal emotional state (feeling manipulated,
    angry, . . .).  What they feel is what you get.  So I don't think it
    helpful to "punish" them (with timeouts, or whatever) for saying no, or
    whining.  Punishing a kid for feeling angry will just make them feel
    angrier (and rightly so).  But of course they had better learn not to
    act out their emotions in ways that are unsafe or destructive.
    
    It seems to me that no-ism peaks around age 2, but it goes away only
    gradually.  It re-emerges easily when a kid is tired and grouchy.  Eric
    had a memorable bout just last night, after a too-long car trip kept
    him up well past normal bed time.
    
    In fact, I suspect that kids' inability to distinguish internal emotion
    from external reality leads them to assume that we parents control
    their emotions, and are making them angry (or frustrated, grouchy,
    whatever) on purpose.  So, it is logical for them to "punish" us for
    making them feel bad, with negative behavior.  Our punishing them in
    turn for making us feel bad just leads to unproductivce infinite
    regress.
    
    If this is (half) right, it leads to the cheerful conclusion that the
    negative behavior diminishes as the kids increasingly discover that we
    are really powerless buffoons, rather than the wise, omnipotent
    protectors they imagined as infants.  Thus, as teenagers, they simply
    ignore grownups, knowing we aren't even worth the effort of whining. 
    Mine haven't reached that stage yet.
    
    		- Bruce

    I know the NO's are driving you crazy, but just wait till you get to
    the WHY stage!!  It's been driving me crazy for almost a year now
    GRRRRR!!
    
    Again I referred to my "bible", Toddler Taming (see earlier note on
    Books), it said that this stage passes fairly soon, but is quick to occur 
    "due to almost two years of non-stop practice".  It also suggested the 
    timeout chair might not work, due to the fact that as soon as your back is
    turned the child will leave the chair and soon turn it into a 'catch me
    if you can' type game.

    We are into the no's and whys' with almost three year old Matt. I try
    to answer many of his whys but when he asks why to the answer to the
    first why sometimes I just say 'why not?, or "havn't we been through
    this before Matt, you figure this why out. Frequently I get the
    impression he doesn't listen to the answer to the first why before
    he hits me with the next why.  Any suggestions as to how to help him
    listen to the first why answer better?  Why?  WhY? wHy? why?  
    

    I read somewhere that toddlers like to ask so many whys? to
    keep conversation going.  Early on they notice that people usually
    try to answer the why? question, so they ask it again, and again.
    My daughter would why? a conversation around in circles!  She was
    never really interested in all the information given, but she loved
    to feel like a normal conversing human being.
    
    Some insight?
    
    Diana

    I remember hearing my cousin respond to her 3-year-old's incessant why's
    (like why is the sky blue, or something) with "that's the way it came". 
    It seemed to satisfy him!

Recognizing that this is a major tangent from the base topic, but often when a 
child asks "why . . .", they have some idea what the answer is.  So if a child 
asks "Why is the sky blue?", you might say "I don't know.  Why do YOU think 
the sky is blue?".  In addition to giving the child a chance to state her/his 
thoughts, you may get a very touching answer, like "so it matches your eyes, 
Mommy/Daddy" 




or you may get a snotty "If I knew, I wouldn't be asking YOU".  :^)

Clay

    re: why
    
    I always tried to answer the why questions, even if it meant
    saying "I don't know, let's go look it up somewhere."  There are
    lots of good children's books with child's-level scientific
    explanatins of most everything your child could be interested in,
    if you don't have the basic knowledge about the refraction of
    light to explain why the sky is blue.  (Which is also why the
    sunset is red and orange.) 
    
    Clay is also right in .14 about a child's why often being the only
    way they know to continue a conversation.  As he suggested,
    turning the question around is often very effective. 
    
    re: no
    
    We found that the easiest way to deal with the NO stage was to
    acknowledge the child's right to the negative and often angry
    feelings.  When Steven said, "Go away! Leave me alone!" (which he
    did often, very often . . . ), we'd finish whatever had to be
    done, then leave him alone.  Or we'd try to give him a choice. 
    
    The most important thing we found was to never, never, never ask a
    yes-or-no question about something the child doesn't have a choice
    about, like coming to dinner or holding hands while crossing the
    street. That's guaranteed to produce a storm of bewilderment and
    rage.  And many conventionally polite ways of asking questions are
    ambiguous this way.  "Will you take this toy upstairs, please,"
    might be intended to be merely polite, but a two-year-old hears
    the option and is likely to say "No."  
    
    --bonnie