Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Boy, I can't wait to hear the responses to this one!.    I have
    resigned myself to the fact that there is no such thing as a
    relaxed dinner with children...maybe I'm wrong????
    
    cj/

    With small children, your options are have a family dinner
    full of spilled milk, etc or postpone your dinnertime to much
    later, say after kids have eaten, you have had time to play
    with them and get them into bed.
    
    We used to eat dinner at 8:00 in order to have a relaxing dinner.
    We now have become so used to 8:00 dinners that now with our
    teenagers we still don't eat until about 7:30 only we all eat 
    together when they don't have other plans.
    
    Judie
    

    One more thing, plan your menu so that the kids get
    a healthy good dinner.  This might require serving 
    them leftovers from your last nights dinner or
    something like that.
    
    Judie
    

I remember a friend of mine from elementary school.  Her parents always
ate later, after the kids had eaten.  I thought it was really strange
because my family always ate together.  Maybe a couple times a week
have a late dinner and eat a nice snack or salad while your little
one eats.  A lot of the learning at this stage is immitation so that
could be why he likes to eat when you do.

    
    re.0
    
    We only sit down and eat real meals together on the weekends!
    My daughter (almost 5) wants to eat at 6, right after I get home. 
    I just heat up leftover from the night before (not really leftover!)
    for her. 
    
    After her supper, I wash her, read to her or play with her. Around 
    7 or so, I start our supper. If my husband comes home late, then
    I'll eat by myself first.  I am not going to go hungry waiting...
    
    Because of our hectic schedules, I gave up having this "family
    dinner" thing every night long time ago! 
    
    
    Eva.
    

    Well, a six month old needs to have the feeding done to them, but my
    kids always ate with with the big people from about age 1 up (and sat
    with them as soon as they could sit).  In my thinking, meals
    (especially dinner) are the bedrock family events, and it would seem
    quite strange not to be together.  You're going to be "having trouble"
    to some extent with a 1 1/2 year old at meal time regardless.  It seems
    to me my kids learned patience and control quicker thanks to having to
    fit in with adult meal practices.  And I can't remember my kids ever
    giving a hard time eating out at restaurants, or friends/relatives
    houses.  But those last points are fringe benefits.  Basically, meals
    were _invented_ to be shared.
    
    		- Bruce

    
    I agree with .4.  Most of the time I start dinner about 5:30 (giving me
    half an hour to either relax).  While dinner is in the oven, my two
    children (2 and 5 1/2 years old) play outside while I sit on the porch
    watching them.  When dinner is ready, we all eat together.  It's a
    great time to share what they experienced at daycare (making sure they
    don't have food in their mouth when they are talking and if the
    conversation gets so long that their food is getting cold, we ask them
    to hold their thoughts until after dinner so we can talk some more.)
    
    In my opinion, the children learn table manners and we, as parents,
    learn something from them each day.
    

RE: .6

I agree with you Bruce.  I think it is important to share meals with the
family.  For alot of families, this is the only time they are all together,
sharing their day.

RE: .2

>    With small children, your options are have a family dinner
>    full of spilled milk, etc or postpone your dinnertime to much
>    later, say after kids have eaten, you have had time to play
>    with them and get them into bed.

I disagree.  There were a few times, between the ages of 18 mos. and 22 mos.
where I didn't think I'd ever have a peaceful meal again.  But since then 
we have very enjoyable dinners together.  (Granted, I only have one child !)

Kids learn by imitation.  Table manners are very important.  If a child has
no adult to imitate or to guide them, how are they supposed to learn?  We've
installed "Please" "Thank-you" "You're welcome" and "excuse me", and napkin
usage in our son since he was 24 mos.  He still has a ways to go, but *he's
learning* !

Maybe it's *because* we've always shared our meals together that we can enjoy
"peaceful meals" today, who knows?

� �ori

    
    Bruce and I don't always agree, HOWEVER, I DEFINATELY agree with him on
    this one!!
    
    Maybe a lot has to do with my childhood.  My mother put a high priority
    on family unity at the dinner table.  She was somewhat flexible about
    breakfast and lunch, but dinner (especially weekends!) were very
    important.  I never remember it being a problem in my youth, but I do
    remember it being a problem when we had jobs and were dating.  My
    mother  then became flexible (with advanced warning) for weekday
    dinners, but Sunday was still of upmost importance.  Today, holiday
    dinners are STILL of utmost importance.
    
    Jim's parents, however, were quick to feed Catherine and eat "later" in
    total peace and tranquility.  At age 7, Catherine still has much
    difficulty with her table manners both at home and in a restaurant.  I
    sense they are now trying desperately to "control" her behavior SEVEN
    years AFTER THE FACT!
    
    So as troublesome as it can be, Jim/I always include JA with our dinner
    meal (not necessarily with breakfast and lunch -- sound familiar?). 
    We've done this since she "sat up" in a highchair (5 months?).  She's
    ALWAYS included in our family get-togethers and holiday meals, too.
    
    Since JA's just 10 months of age, we feed her BEFORE our meal is ready
    and then give her finger food from our meal (in her highchair).  She
    has a FP plastic stroller train attached to the side of her highchair,
    which she's allowed to play with during mealtime.  We also give
    her a training cup of milk.  I'm not saying EVERY meal is a picnic!,
    but MOST meals (amazingly enough about 95% of them!) are very good
    successes.  We only had one upset in a restaurant (but she was only
    about 4 months old!).  She's actually better in restaurants (new
    environment).
    
    I'm glad we started JA young ... AND stuck to it (especially during the
    difficult training times!).   Feels good when you're seated at a
    restaurant and "a couple" raise their eyebrows when you're seated next
    to them with a "baby", only to have them compliment her behavior when
    they leave.
    
    Now if I could only control her behavior AWAY FROM the table!!!
    
    Dottie
                

    I definately agree with Liz (.4) and Bruce (.6) on this one, too.
    If your child doesn't want to eat alone, then have a salad or
    something like that and then have a nice, quiet meal with your
    wife after the kids are in bed.  When I think back on my childhood,
    most of the best times I had were spent around the dinner table with
    my family.  I believe that it's very important to start at a young
    age with a "family dinner".  My own child is only 8.5 months old,
    but she sits with us at the dinner table every night even though she's
    already eaten. (I just give her a teething biscuit).  After she's gone
    to bed, my husband and I sit down to relax and talk about the day.  I'm
    sure when she's older, we'll want to eat quietly, and I think we'll
    take Liz's advice then.  Good luck.
    
    - Kathryn
    
                                         

    We include Eric in our dinner every since he can sit in the 
    high chair (about 6 months old?).  We usually have dinner around
    6:30pm.  Sometimes, I will feed him first and give him fruits
    while we are having dinner.  I agree with previous replies.
    It is a family event, the whole family should be together.  Now
    that Eric is almost two, he can join the conversation.  It just
    makes the meal time more fun.
    
    Wendy

    But... you folks all work for Digital, right?  How do you manage to get
    home on a regular basis before the little one(s) are in bed?  In order
    to jealously guard my weekends for the family, I usually leave the
    house around 6:30am and roll back in sometime between 7:30 and 8:00pm. 
    That's pretty average in my group, except some people work fewer hours
    during the week and go into the office nearly every weekend.  Pat feeds
    Michael between 6 and 7, and he goes to sleep at 8 (whether he's in his
    crib or not!).  We virtually never eat dinner before 8:00, and it's
    often 9:00 when we sit down to eat.  How do you manage including a
    little one in such a schedule?
    
    Steve

    Steve,
    
    I agree 100% with you!  My husband does not usually get home by 
    7:00 - 7:30 and I long ago stopped trying to 'time' dinner to be
    ready when he walked through the door - Mike seemed to always be
    late on those nights!!!!  So... I generally feed Sam before Mike
    even leaves work, let a long gets home from work.  Then in order
    for Mike to have some time with Sam we often eat after Sam has
    gone to bed. That way they can play for half an hour or so before
    bedtime.  If we do eat before Sam is in bed he will often be at
    the table with us but generally not eating unless he's having
    fruit or something.
    
    As nice as it may be to have family meals etc. sometimes it's just
    not practical.  It's one more compromise that you have to make if
    something else is more important to YOU.  We feel that it's better
    that Sam is at daycare for eight hours or less on an average day and
    accomplish that by having Daddy drop off and I pick up.  Because of
    that decision I go to work early and Mike goes in later - Sam is
    usually not dropped off at daycare until close to 8:30.  It all works
    out for us - Sam and Dad have breakfast together (Mike is into
    breakfast - pancakes, french toast, eggs etc. where I don't want to 
    look at food until I've been up for at least 1-2 hours!), Sam and
    I have dinner together - I may not eat but I'll usually have tea,
    or a cold drink while Sam eats.
    
    Sam does like it when we all eat together and has commented "Isn't
    it nice to all eat together"  So those times are indeed special!
    
    Oh yeah - Sam has great manners at the table and in restaurants  We've
    never had to leave a restaurant on account of Sam's behavior but we
    have left because of the behavior of other children.  So not having a 
    family meal every night does not mean your child will not learn correct 
    etiquette!
    
    Good luck and enjoy the times you can have a family meal, but don't
    feel bad if it's not every night!
    
    Kathy

RE: .12

>    But... you folks all work for Digital, right?  How do you manage to get
>    home on a regular basis before the little one(s) are in bed?  In order

Well, I work 7:00 to about 3:45.  My husband works about 8ish to 5ish.  He
takes our son to daycare, and I pick him up. This gives me plenty of time
to get dinner ready, and we eat at 5:45.  Now, my husband is prone to work-
ing long hours like you are.  When he does, he'll wait until our son goes
to bed (8:30) and then he'll go back in to work for a few hours.  It's
a 25 mile commute each way, but this family time is important to us.

� �ori

    
    re.13
    
    Sounds like we are in the same boat! I work from 7:30 to 4:30
    (23 miles commute each way). My husband works from 10 to 7 
    (50 miles commute each way), so he doesn't get home till 8,
    sometimes 8:30. My kid is in daycare from 9 to 5. I spend time
    with her in the evening and my husband has his share in the morning.
    I'd rather spend my my time with her reading to her, playing games than
    hanging around the kitchen cooking (my husband doesn't cook).
    
    My daughter behaves very well in restaurants since we started
    bringing her with us when she was real little. 
    
    I guess, we have to do whatever is best for us. In my family,
    if we want to have family dinners every night, that'll probably
    mean new jobs (outside of DEC) for both of us! Sometimes, I
    envy folks that live 10 minutes from work! But in a real estate
    market like today, it is not easy to sell our house and move.
    
    
    
    Eva.

    I work from 8-5 (5 miles commute each way).  My husband works
    from 8-6 (50 miles commute each way), so he usually leaves home
    around 7:00 in the morning and gets home between 6:30-7:00.
    He used to get home around 8, but now he cuts down his lunch
    hour, so that he can be home early.  He frequently goes to work
    during weekends.  I guess we both feel family time is important.
    Especially, Eric is in daycare from 8-5.  He doesn't get to
    spend time with his father in the morning.  So we try to make
    it up during the night.
    
    Wendy 

    When Aaron was almost four, his mom was very pregnant with Eric, and
    couldn't cope with supper and bedtime after a day at work; but I had an
    extremely demanding assignment for a few months.  I coped by leaving
    work at 5:00 to pick up Aaron,  fix supper, have a family evening, and
    early to bed.  Then I'd go into work as early as 3:00 or 4:00 in the
    morning.  It's amazing how much technical stuff you can get done from
    4:00 to 8:00 a.m., still leaving a full day for people oriented
    problems.
    		- Bruce

    Re: .17
    
    My husband does exactly that, Bruce.  Sometimes I hear him rattling
    around in the kitchen at 3:00 am and then he's out the door and off
    to work.  Still, I usually pick up the baby at the sitter's house
    and we get home between 6:15 and 6:30.  I change my clothes, Dad
    plays with the baby, I get dinner in the oven, and while it's cooking
    I feed the baby (7:00).  When my husband and I eat, it's 7:30 - 8:00.
    Then he does the dishes and I get the baby ready for bed.  She usually
    drops off around 9:00 - I know, I know, that's late for a baby - but
    we see her for such a short time during the work week.  Also, she gets
    to sleep until 7 am and usually takes long naps at the sitter's house.
    I think as she gets a little older, she'll go to bed earlier and
    earlier.  For now, this is working out fine.  She's been sleeping
    through the night since she was 3 *weeks* old.
    
    - Kathryn
    

What about working from home?  I devote my time to Kati from the time I pick
her up until she goes to bed (8:30 or 9:00) - if that is running errands,
eating, playing, bathing, whatever.  After she's in bed I can logon from home
and do some work (Now Steve, I know that you can't do windows from home - YET -
but I hear you will be able to shortly.  Is that a solution?).

I could easily work several more hours at work, but I just prefer to be home
with my family.  My husband can also logon from home (different company) and
do his work - so the arguments are over which one of us gets to use the modem!

Kristen

    
    re. 19
    
    Unless I can bring home a workstation, it is really not worth
    logging in in my case. The line is usually noisy, I can read mail
    or read notes, but I don't usually code on it. My work involves a
    lot of debugging on standalone proto graphics hardware which cannot 
    be done remotely, since we still can't hard reboot the system
    without physically being there. 
    
    My husband is a contract employee and gets paid by the hour. 
    Working from home is not an option for him. 
    
    Someday, we'll move closer to work...
    
    Eva.

    I've done that, too....get home from work at 6, spend the next 2-2.5
    hours with James till he goes to bed, then log on from home and
    spend a couple of hours working.  I do not like to do this, but at
    times, it's the only way to get anything done!
    
    I think the point is, whatever works for your family is the right
    thing to do.  I tend to agree with Bruce about family mealtimes
    being important.  However, I think that if even 1 meal (be it
    Wednesday dinner or Sunday breakfast) is set aside for family
    togetherness once a week, and if all family members know that
    that time is special, then kids will get the message.  As to
    manners, that is an ongoing discussion, if you ask me...
    
    My $.02,
    Kate

    	Wow, I sure stirred up a good conversation! Since I entered this
    note we have learned that there is really no sure fire way to
    accomplish dinner time. We have decided (not really our choice 8>) )
    to NOT plan each day to be the same. We play it by ear. Its obviously
    easier on my wife if we eat together (she doesn't have to cook twice)
    but we don't do the same thing each day. It all depends on the kids,
    how thay are behaving, etc. Most of the time, the 1 1/2 yr old eats 
    a little something first (because shes hungry!) and then we all sit
    down together to eat. She gets to try a little of what we eat, and we
    end up having a fairly relaxed dinner. I guess I can't complain, since
    Mandy is a very good kid. Already she is carrying around her doll,
    tries to feed it her bottle (getting milk all over) and she even puts
    it to bed with a blankie and kisses it good night.   
    
    	We are beginning to get used to playing it by ear, it seems to
    be working out for us. Thankyou for your help and suggestions. I just 
    found this conference, find it helpful, and will participate from time
    to time. 
    
    Cheers.
    		Bob  

    .22 > Its obviously easier on my wife if we eat together (she doesn't
    .22 > have to cook twice)
    
    Well, I can also think of another easy solution to THAT problem.
    
    		- Bruce

    Wow, I never thought that this subject would generate so much dialog! 
    But for what it's worth here's the plan at our house; We both work at
    DEC, and for the most part the same hours so we commute in together, a
    35 minute commute.  Our daycare person is only a few houses from the
    site so we have together time on the ride in and home, then when we get
    home dad gives AJ (3.5 yrs) his bath first thing while I do dinner.  
    Sometimes during the winter I do microwave type dinners like Budget Gourmet
    Lite. He loves the veggies and they're pretty straight forward ingredients.
    He eats first, and generally joins us when we eat, and samples a little
    of whatever we're having. (thankfully he loves most all veggies!)   Now 
    that it's summer we cook out most nights.  My big kid and the little kid 
    play out until I get the salad and meat ready and we eat on the deck then 
    we do bath and quiet time till bed time, around 8.
    
    Every couple weeks or so we get a sitter and get night out to eat like
    "grownups" it doesn't have to be anyplace fancy or expensive, even
    Abdow's or a Pub type restaurant.  We do a family breakfast about once
    a month at Abdow's, kids under 4 eat free and kids under 6 are $1.50, a
    good bargain as I see it!  
    
    As the man once said, just my opinion!
    
    Lyn Tripp, AJ's mom (1-2-87)
    

    We are both DECcies as well and with two in daycare/extended day after
    school, it is absolutely imperative that one of us be available to pick
    them up.  Working late is a "luxury" we don't have (and don't really
    want anymore - we put in a lifetime of extra hours before the kids!)
    
    We have dinner together every night between 6 and 6:30.  When the kids
    were infants they were in infant seats around the table, then high
    chairs, then "big kid" chairs.  We all eat the same thing.  Dinner
    is usually a "pleasant" affair.  We talk about our day, plan the
    evening festivities, and talk about things that are coming up.