Conference moira::parenting_v3

    I am not trying to trivialize your problem, because I can tell that
    you are upset...or at your whit's end, but it sounds to me that
    your 14 year old is just being 14! I can remember being this way.
    My sister and brother too.
    
    When I taught 8th grade English in a Maryland public school, what
    I learned most about 14 year olds was that they are beginning to
    enter young adulthood....but they think they are adults! And they
    always knew better.
    
    It's hard to deal with I'm sure. You were being sarcastic when you
    said you would hand her over to the state, right?  I wish I could
    offer some help. Maybe the EAP could help you deal with the situation
    if you can't get your daughter there. Perhaps they can offer advice
    on techniques to get through to her or get her to open up. At the
    least, they could help you deal with the stress the situation is
    causing you.
    
    Good luck and take care of yourself to.
    
    Dot

    re: .0
    
    Unless your daughter has done something more than what you've
    entered  here, family counselling is probably more in order than a
    last-resort program like Toughlove.  As a mother of a 16-year-old
    daughter, it doesn't sound like the things you describe are that
    far out of line for a girl that age.  I've seen worse behavior
    that appeared to fall in the range of "normal" from some of my
    daughter's friends. 
    
    Most of the time when I've seen this sort of behavior, it's
    because the girl feels like her parents are trying to run her
    life.  Note that I'm not saying that you are trying to run her
    life, only that she perceives it that way.  A girl growing up is
    trying to find  her individuality, and it's important that she be
    allowed to express that individuality  in reasonable ways.  Sex
    and smoking are real quick easy ways to say "Hey, look, I'm grown
    up, I don't have to follow your silly restrictions."  Again, I'm
    not saying they are silly, only that she sees them that way.
    
    Having her boyfriend over while you were gone doesn't necessarily
    mean they're having sex, however.  It might, but it's more likely
    that she thinks that at 14� she's old enough to have a friend over
    for a couple of hours even when you aren't home to supervise, and
    she's going to prove it by having somebody over that you won't
    ignore. 
    
    In only four years your daughter will be out of high school and
    out on her own.  She's going to have to know how to manage her
    time, how to juggle social activities vs. work and school
    commitments, how to choose and relate to friends and love
    interests, how to keep her wardrobe, style her hair, and balance
    her diet.  She's not going to suddenly learn all those skills
    overnight. 
    
    My philosophy of adolesence is that it's a time when they learn to
    be adults and to make their own mistakes, taking the consequences
    of their own decisions, within the limits you set for their safety
    and health.  Within those limits of what the child is able to
    handle, I consider my daughter's choices out of my territory.  I
    hated the haircut she got when she was 14, and her penchant for
    wearing black drives me up the wall.  But it's her life, and her
    image, and I've learned to see that she's expressing how she sees
    herself, not how I want other people to see her.  
    
    Probably what would work best is to find a family counsellor who
    can help you work out areas where you can let your daughter take
    control of her life, and areas where she has to abide by family
    rules.  
    
    --bonnie

    p.s. you might want to look in the BLENDED_FAMILIES notes
    conference for help in dealing with the stepfather issues. 
    note 7.7 contains a pointer to the location.
    
    --bonnie

    re: .4
    
    I'm sorry, I got so long-winded that I forgot to be clear about my
    main point.  
    
    Yes, you do need help.  Saying I thought your daughter's behavior
    was within the range of what you could expect from Tanya T.
    Teenager didn't mean I thought that behavior was acceptable.  We
    expect infants to bite a few times when they first get their
    teeth, but that doesn't mean we let them do it.  You're very right
    to worry about it, and you're right to worry about it now, before
    the problems do fester into real problems with self-destructive
    behavior like sex, drugs, running away, shoplifting, prostitution,
    or worse.  Sneaking cigarettes and lying about where she's been
    are danger signs, all right, but they're pretty minor compared to
    what she would be doing if she had real emotional problems. 
    
    But Toughlove isn't for 14-year-olds who are having trouble
    dealing with independence and feeling abandoned by their fathers. 
    It's a last-resort program for parents of children who haven't
    been helped by counselling and repeated encounters with the legal
    system -- it's for problems like the 19-year-old neighbor who came
    home after being gone without a word for two weeks and slashed the
    family sofa to bits with a butcher knife while the 12-year-old
    watched. 
    
    My other point is that there doesn't appear to be anything wrong
    with either you or your rules, or with her or her desires, or with
    her stepfather's view of the situation.  The problem is that those
    differing views of the world are in conflict, and you need family
    counselling -- the kind where everybody goes together and also
    separately -- not just individual therapy.  It probably ought to
    include the brother, too.  
    
    --bonnie

    No, go for the family counselling anyway, with as many people as
    are willing to go.  You can't control her behavior but you can
    control your reactions to it, and it will help you all deal with
    it.  Even if it's just you, it will help you.  
    
    I'm mildly surprised that you haven't found someone who's willing
    to try to talk her into counselling.  True, continuing it won't do
    any good if she's not willing, but very often the only way to get
    anybody into the first session is kicking and screaming.  Are you
    sure the people you've talked to are actually people who are
    specialists in dealing with whole families and not counsellors who
    know how to deal with individual's problems with the family?  Most
    family counsellors aren't "doctors" at all, they're social
    workers (MSW, master's in social work). 
    
    --bonnie

From your description, I tend to agree that you've certainly got a hard to
handle teenager but certainly not one who has reached the stage that is
generally associated with "Tough Love".  In general, the tough love teen
respects no-one in authority ... will take absolutely no responsibility ...
has been in trouble with the law on more than one occasion ... likely is into
drugs ... is in and out of school like a yo-yo (but usually expelled) ...
think about the worst aspects of your daughter and ask yourself ... could
they be worse ?  I suspect so ...  The tough love child often has had
poor "bonding" with parents from the start.

Yes there is a lot to be learned for anyone raising a child from the tough
love program, but be thankful you aren't there yet.  It really does sound
as if you have both built a communications wall between you, where you
cannot talk ... you argue.  There are a lot of reasons why she doesn't
like the idea of counselling ... not the least of which is that she doesn't
see anything to gain from it for her ... she probably sees it as a
manipulative way of getting her to compromise with you ... ie she loses.
She doesn't see a win-win solution coming from it.

It sounds like your daughter is feeling rejected from the family, and
therefore has little responsibility to it.  I remember the feelings I
had when my mother remarried when I was in my early 20's ... at that
time I was living at home.  My step-father treated me more like a lodger
than a part of the family.  My mother appeared to condone that attitude,
and does to this day.  I can understand why my step father felt that way
but I never felt truly welcome in his house ... and moreover, I felt
betrayed by my mother for not standing up for us.  No matter how much
I rationalize it and try to understand it, I am still hurt and resentful
over 15 years later.  I like my stepfather in some ways, but hate him in
others.  I was fortunate ... I was in University anyway, so after just
a couple nights there, I moved out ... not in anger ... but because
there was no home privacy and I didn't feel welcome even by my mother.

Now I don't mean to be personal, but I can see many parallels to your
family situation, and I think maybe you're seeing in your daughter, a
reflection of family problems that maybe haven't been ironed out yet,
rather than real "tough love" type problems with your daughter.

I hope you don't take umbrage at my drawing this comparison, especially
since I don't know you, but like all free advice ... it's worth every 
penny ... 

Anyway, I do wish you good luck ...

Stuart

    Just my 2 cents....
    
    14 was probably my worst year as a teenage, but it only lasted a year.
    
    I don't think all the things you've listed are different than any
    other teenager.  I did all of what you listed, and worse.  My 
    mother was shocked when I told her all things I did.
    
    The other thing that surprised me, was she isn't allowed to have
    any friends over.  That would make me very upset, I would have
    hated that, and rebelled like she's doing.  That seems uncalled
    for, at least that's my opinion.   
    
    I could go on and on, but these are just my thoughts.  I'm only
    30, so I can remember those days like it was yesterday, and my
    sister has more horror stories, she was worse than me.
    
    Sue

If I had to live under that rule I would have rebelled too!  I would think she
would be the most bored/lonely when you aren't home, and could benefit from
a friend being with her.  (Also, if you have an accident while driving her
friend in the car you can also be sued - you just can't let those remote
possibilities dictate your life, IMO)

Kristen