Conference moira::parenting

    Dar anon,
    
    I went through this many years ago with Lolita's father's biological
    father.  Due to multiple issues Karl's father dropped off the face of
    the earth when he was 7 and didn't resurface until Lolita was about 6
    and Karl and I were seperating.  After some hesitation, and relating
    with the father's parents, who I had met many years before, karl and
    his father reestablished their relationship, and I sent Lolita out to
    her great-grands to meet her grandfather.  There may be regrets on karl
    and Karl Sr's part that they never established a relationship earlier,
    but none on my part for Lolita getting to know this fascinating man,
    and his life partner.  It gave her an opportunity to learn photo
    processing and photography beyond snapshots, and I think, helped us
    work out some issues surrounding my divorce from her father.  YMMV.  
    I don't know the family dynamics that you and your husband have had to
    deal with regarding his parents separation.
    
    It might be best to meet on nuetral territory, say a park, resturant,
    zoo, or other activity where the kids can be a bit distracted by other
    stuff if things go badly.  Good luck.
    
    meg
    or something to start out with

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      Carol duBois, PARENTING Co-moderator

**************************************************************

My inlaws divorced when my husband was a college freshman.  He is the
oldest, with 7 behind him.  (The youngest is now in college).  My
husband has always been resentful, for lack of a better word, in regards
to his Dad's lack on involvement.  It has truly been a struggle from
a financial perspective for my mother in law.  All the kids went to
college with no assistance from their Dad.  I should add that he is
fairly well off.  He lives in a very affluent town, owns a few vacation
type properties as well as a sailboat he sails 2x year in the Caribbean
and has a good job.  I know some of the kids did ask for financial
help from him and he declined.  But I also realize that financial 
support is not a given - parents don't have to help send their kids
to college.  (I'm not fully aware of the divorce agreement terms).

His Dad didn't seem to make too much of an effort from what I can gather
in terms of continuing relationships with the kids after the divorce.
Sort of sporadic - and more the "obligatory" type visits.  The awkwardness
was mutual from what I can understand.

I'd don't think my husband hates his Dad.  He's cordial to him when he
calls and has occasionally even sent him father's day cards and stuff.
I do know 2 other brothers tried to have a heart-to-heart with their
Dad and from their perspective the guy was oblivious to what they were
trying to tell him.  (Their relationship with him is about where it is
with my husband and him).  I've seen how it bothers them to have him
waltz in and out and that is what I'd like to protect my kids from.  

    
    How about something like .....
    
    Tell grandpa what your REAL concerns are.  You don't want your children
    hurt.  BUT if he can maintain it, you'd like them to grow to know and
    love their grandpa.  So far so good, see if he's willing to visit with
    them without really saying much of anything about WHO he is.  Meet him
    out for pizza and see how the kids react to him.  See how gramps holds
    up his part of the relationship, over time.
    
    My ex-m-i-l doesn't bother much with my 2 sons.  She sees them several
    times a year, and asks about them, but that's about it.  I find it VERY
    curious (and maybe a little confusing) that the boys think *SOO* much
    of her and seem to love her at least as much as any other extended
    family member.  
    
    Their relationship is not for me to understand, approve of or condemn. 
    It's between them, and I try to leave it like that.  She is
    well-meaning, and while I personally think she could put forth a bit
    more effort, the kids don't seem bothered by it, so I try to just leave
    it at that.  They have a much better relationship with their
    grandparents than I ever had with any of mine, so for them, I am very
    very happy.
    
    I would be slightly cautious, but still let it happen, and after some
    (a few mos?) period of time, just sort of casually mention who he is.
    He probably is "around to stay" -- getting older, maybe having regrets. 
    You can't hold his past against him forever, and from the sounds of it,
    aside from being "vacant" he hasn't done a lot wrong.
    
    Sounds like he may be trying to "make up" for some of his past....
    
    Good Luck!
    

    IMO - I think your husband needs a frank talk with his dad to clarify 
    their relationship before anything else happens. Sometimes that's very
    hard, but how else can you go forward. 
    
    Then if grandpa is going to enter your families life there ought to be 
    some ground rules, ie he doesn't just turn up every leap year and expect 
    to be treated like a long lost friend.
    
    His introduction to the kids ought to be low key to begin with. Follow
    their lead and don't push it. I did something similar with the guidance
    of a therapist (too long to explain), and if the grown ups don't make a 
    big fuss then the kids don't. 
     
    But there is no getting around the fact that he's their grand father
    and, unless he presents a risk to them, they deserve a chance to know 
    him.
                                                          
    Martin
    
    
    

    For what it's worth, my kids (ages 1 & 3) don't see much of their
    grandparents.  My m-i-l doesn't drive and lives quite a distance, so
    my kids see their nana 4 or 5 times a year.  They have fun when they
    are with her and I see no adverse affects on them.
    
    My parents are divorced and both remarried.  The kids get to see my
    mother and her husband once a month or so and again they have a great
    time together.  My dad and his wife moved to Texas a couple of years
    ago and only get to visit us 3 or 4 times a year.  Again, my kids have
    a great time with their grandparents and I see no problems or concerns.
    
    The only concern I foresee in the future is what to call all these
    grandparents so as not to confuse who's who: Nana, Gramma "G", etc..
    
    If anything it affects me more because I'd love to spend more time
    with my parents and they're out having a good time for themselves
    (they're all retired).  Yesh!!
    
    /Karen

    
    What to call them .... ugh!
    
    We have;
    
    Nanna and {Grandpa or Beepa} - My youngest's paternal grandparents
    Nanny and {Grandpa or Grandpa-without-the-gum} - (all 3) maternal 
    	grandparents.  My niece/nephew call my dad Pop-pop.  
    Grandma - Oldest 2's paternal grandmother, though to her face she
    	prefers being called her name 
    Grandpa-with-the-Gum - Oldest 2's paternal grandfather.
    
    Somehow it all works out ....
    

    Hi,
    My husband and I both lost our fathers when we were fairly young,
    I was 13 and he at 18. Neither of our mothers remarried so there
    is no grandpa for our kids on either side. My son, (6) talks about
    Grandpa Chris (Steve's father) on occasion and I can see how sad
    it makes both my husband and m-i-l that he never got to see them.
    
    I know there's probaly a lot of stuff left over between your husband
    and father but it sounds like he's been pretty respectful about
    keeping his distance. If you're careful about not setting up
    to many expectations at the beginning I think it could work out
    well for your children to get to know there grandfather. (and I
    definately think they should be told he's your husbands father)
    
    Well anyway that's my 2 cents worth, I know it comes from wishing
    my kids had at least 1 grandfather in their lives.
    
                       good luck
    
                        Barbara
    
    
    

RE: .0

There's a song by a band called "Mike And The Mechanics" called "The Living
Years".  It came out the same month my father died.  To this day, I have a hard
time listening to that song.

Basically, the song is about a guy who's father dies before he has a chance
to really connect with him.  Now, he's left with regrets and sadness because
he didn't make the effort to get to know his father better.

I could have written this song.  My father was an alcoholic and as such he
didn't relate very well to his wife and kids.  This is a side effect of the
disease he had.  When he was alive I was really angry with him for being so
distant.  I just let the space between us grow and didn't do anything to
bridge the gap.  After he died it hit me that now I could NEVER bridge that
gap.  

My recommendation to anyone who is at odds with their parents is to close
the door on the past and at least make an effort to open yourself up for
them.  (This is much easier said, than done.  I realize that!) If I had it 
to do over again I would have tried to get closer to my father and offer him
help in overcoming his illness.

As long as it's not harmfull to either of you or your children you might want
to think about giving your father-in-law a chance.  

Dan

>    The only concern I foresee in the future is what to call all these
>    grandparents so as not to confuse who's who: Nana, Gramma "G", etc..

Ask them what they'd like to be called.

Or, Grandma <last name>, etc.

My four year old certainly doesn't have problems keeping track of the
various grandparents (although he only has the traditional number), and
he knows their last names (pretty much).

Charlie

>> Or, Grandma <last name>, etc.

We use "Grandpa <first name>" in our family, but the same concept.

						Brian

    Agree with Brian.
    
    My kids say, "Grandma Jackie" and "Grandpa Mac" for my parents, and
    "Grandma Toby" and "Grandpa Vic" for my ex-husband's folks, who we are
    still all close to.  
    
    BTW, when my daughter Amy was little (3 or 4), she had a preschool play
    and invited both sets of Grandparents.  When it was over, she called
    her teacher over and introduced them as "my Black Grandma" and "my
    White Grandma" (as my mom has dark hair and Steve's mom is very gray).
    
    It took a bit of explaining (smile)... we still laugh about that!   =)
    
    Leslie
    

    Leslie,
    
    My two grandmothers were white and black gram as well.  The name stuck,
    to the point that black gram would sign her name that way in cards.  
    
    meg