Conference moira::parenting

I would suspect an inner ear infection (vs. the usual
middle-ear (?) infection).  I've heard this can
affect balance and equilibrium.  My advice:  call your
pedi and ask what else it might be, and how to go
about getting a diagnosis.  

    
    Personally, I would get her to the doctor.  Does she try to catch
    herself to lessen the fall?   She should be trying to stop the
    impact with her hands.  How old is Angeline?
    
    I don't want to be an alarmist, but it is possible she is momentarily
    blacking out (my dad did this last year - he appeared to remain
    conscience - but fell backwards in an instant and gashed his head on
    the cement floor)  It could come from an instantaneous loss of blood
    to the brain, and then everything is fine. 
    
    I really would check with the doctor right away, cause if it happens
    outdoors or on a hard floor she could really get hurt.
    
    Best of luck...

    
    Doesn't sound like an inner ear infection. Lara (2 yrs) had lots of ear
    infections this winter and we were just at the point of pushing the
    tubes idea when they stopped. We did comment to the doctor about her
    balance as she was always off-center when walking around and invariably
    would crash into something or fall over. He said it was the age, cause
    if it was an inner ear infection (the type that affects balance) she
    wouldn't even be able to walk. 
    
    Angeline's problem does not sound like this. I would definitely call
    the doctor's and talk to someone about it. The momentary blackout
    sounds possible, especially if she's not protecting herself during the
    fall.
    
    Patty

    I'd probably have to nix the inner ear too, although a good suggestion.
    I did think that over a minute, but suspect I'd see other symptoms.  
    In fact, we've gone a wonderfully long spell without any (knock on
    wood) ear infections at all.  
    
    In response to a couple back, she is 19 months old. 
    
    Hmmm.. the black outs... I've been looking right at her when she did
    these, and no, she hasn't tried to catch herself.  She just drops so
    fast.  The sideways one that I saw, she did try a little bit.  It was
    almost like her right knee just buckled.  The backwards one was the
    worse and scariest because it was just so quick and, boom, she was on
    the floor looking just as surprised as I!  I didn't see her eyes as
    closed at all though.   Would that be the case with these black-outs?
    
    							cj

    
    I'd wonder if she's "fainting" too ... especially seeing Angeline.  She
    tends to "lock" her legs when she's standing still (at least she always
    used to - does she still?), so she may really just be fainting. 
    (though that wouldn't explain the walking one).  When she's standing
    still for any amount of time, try to get her to flex her legs .... I
    remember this was one thing I was "warned" about when getting married.  The
    brides and grooms tend to be nervous, and lock their knees to try to
    retain "control", and end up passing out at the altar.  I don't know if
    your eyes would NECESSARILY close - I wouldn't use that strictly -
    Jonathan sleeps with his eyes half open (YUCK!!) - can't tell ya how
    many times I've been yapping away at him, only to be interrupted by a
    snore (-:
    
    Good luck!

    
    I guess I made up an incident when she was walking .... get her on that
    Stepper with you Mom!  Flex those legs!! (-:

    Is "locking your knees" standing with both legs completely straight?  I
    can do that but it doesn't feel "locked" (but then again, I've seen
    people whose arms look like they're bending the wrong way; maybe these
    people have lockable arms, and the leg thing is similar).  And why 
    does "locking" promote fainting?  Is it just that flexed knee(s)
    require attention?  (I've fainted twice, both times while attentive
    to muscular action....)
    
    Cluelessly,
    Leslie

    You know, I was at a wedding and saw the groom go over like a
    tree because of that exact reason.  Hmmm... she just may be doing
    that because each time she has been still for some time.  (A 
    rarity in itself! :-)
    
    I'm going to mention that to the sitter too so perhaps if we see
    her just standing (ie - staring at Big Bird or Barney) we may need
    to just jar her attention a bit and get her to move.
    
    Good point!
    						cj *->

    re: .7
    
    Locked knees are pulling the knees back as far as they will go with all
    muscles tight.  They will cause fainting because it restricts the flow
    of blood from the legs to the brain.  I learned this while in band and
    doing looooong military parades.  We had more than one person pass out.
    
    Irene

There are too many things this could be, including things like epilepsy,
to even hazard a guess ... unfortunately, it's a trip to the doctor and
the battery of tests again.

Stuart

    Well, STuart, in fact - we ruled out epilepsy a year ago due
    to some "seizure like" activity she had as an infant.  When 
    we did the EEG and MRI, there was abnormal "extra" activity
    in her brain which was later attributed to a very common virus
    that I couldn't even begin to remember how to spell or say.
    I know that even in a sleeping state, there was one section 
    of her brain that was showing activity that shouldn't have
    been there. (She's just too damn smart if you ask me :-) )
    
    Blood tests revealed the virus.  Now the virus explained the
    activity in the brain, but had nothing to do with the "seizures".
    They were never explained but stopped anyways.  (And I keep
    "quoting" seizures because they were not exactly that, but we
    couldn't word them any other way.  So her whole file says 
    "seizure-like activity".)
    
    But that was months of misery because I kept trying to tell
    them she was fine.   There were six episodes of "seizures" and
    they had finished long before we even started the testing. The
    last one occured at Christmastime in 1994.  The EEG was done
    in January, the MRI in April, and all her metabolics (blood)
    testing done around May.
    
    I just do not relish going back to that neurologist.  He was
    "test" crazy and a tad too fanatical.  Perhaps I'll ask the
    pedi, if the need be, to recommend another.  I know that sounds
    cold and all, but you would have to have seen this guy.  All he'll
    need to hear is a slight suggestion that something may be wrong
    and he'll be dissecting her, I swear! :-)
    
    I spoke with her sitter yesterday, and she didn't feel that at the
    time she saw Angeline fall she had been standing long.  Kind of
    blowing my lock-knee theory.
    
    I'm going to give it until this weekend to think about and see if
    she does it any one more time.  I just think, with all the testing
    she's been through - without a real finding, that perhaps this may
    not be something to concern myself with.   After the weekend, I'll
    call and just mention it to the doctor one way or the other.
    
    It's always something, eh?
    						cj *->
    
    

    OH! BTW... you were all *supposed* to be telling me you see it
    all the time and not to worry! :-) :-)
    
    						cj *->

    
    	When I was a kid, I used to fall over.  I had weak ankles and
    flat feet.  I would also do the locking knee thing and when I would
    go to move forward, just fall.  I remember getting off the bus and 
    falling over.
    
    	During my elementary school physical, the doctor figured this out
    and I had to do some exercises.  I had to put a marble between my big
    toe and the next one over.  This would cause me to walk heel, side,
    toe and try and create an arch.  I had various ankle exercises to do.
    
    	Good news is I rarely fall over any more.

    			(EXPERIENCED THIS WITH 4YR OLD)
    
    
    I just experienced this with my 4 year old (Tyler) a couple of months	
    ago.  I'm not sure how many times he had fallen without my knowing it.
    But, the first time he fell was in the bathroom.  I was at the sink and
    he was sitting on the potty.  All of a sudden, he tilted over and hit
    his head on the floor.  I didn't think much of it because I thought he
    was reaching for the towel on the tub and lost his balance.
    
    The second time was while he was actually sitting on the bed with his
    legs crossed.  I was terribly concerned because he was not close enough
    to the edge to accidently fall off.  However, he just tumbled over 
    on to the floor.  He hurt himself and cried.
    
    At this point, I was extremely alarmed.  It was as though he had no
    muscle control for a quick 5 seconds.  The average person would not
    notice anything abnormal because it happens so fasssst.  Being that
    Tyler had just undergone surgery a month ago to remove the tubes in
    his ears because they hadn't fallen out like they should have, I 
    thought perhaps the falling had something to do with his ears.
    
    I called his pedi and explained the incidents.  He immediately said,
    "I really don't feel this is something to be alarm about".  This was
    on the weekend so he suggested I bring him in on Monday.  I had already
    scheduled his follow-up visit with the specialist to check his ears.
    
    The third time he fell, I was in the kitchen and he was in the family
    room playing with his legos.  Evidently, he lost his balance and his
    head fell directly on his "lego monument" he had created.  That really
    hurted and he cried loud and of course I took off running.  He
    explained what happen and was very angry.  He became very angry and
    frustrated because he didn't understand why he was falling.  He began
    to blame my 2yr old.  He accused my 2 yr old of pushing him when he
    wasn't even in the same room at the time.
    
    I was so stressed out, I couldn't wait until Monday to see the doctor.
    I called again and insisted that someone see my son TODAY.  The doctor
    examined him and said he appears to be totally normal and at this point
    he really do not see a reason to conduct further tests and the tests 
    will not reveal why he is falling.  He suggested I document the falls
    and pay close attention to Tyler at the time he's falling.  He asked me
    to talk to him to see if he's conscious when he's falling and to
    observe his eyes.  I was to observe his eyes for movement or a staring
    look.
    
    The fourth time he fell, we were bought on our knees in the kitchen
    picking up uncooked spagetti my 2yr old decided to spill.  I was close
    enough to Tyler to catch him before he hit the floor.  I asked him 
    questions as he was falling and he responded with eye movement. I must
    say, I was very relieved to know he was coherent.
    
    The specialist checked his ears and strongly ruled out any ear problems
    which could be causing the falls.  Both doctors suggested I continue
    documenting the incidents.  Of course that was not what I wanted to
    hear.  I was angry.  I was angry that I was going to have to restrict
    may happy, energetic and playful little boy to certain play equipment
    at school.  I didn't know how to explain to him that he can not play
    on the side and climb on the high play equipment.  Needless to say, I
    cried and cried and cried.  The burden was just too great for me to
    bear.  My husband, being the wonderful and considerate man that he is
    tried to comfort me and assure me that we would get through this and 
    that everything would be O.K.   
    
    I didn't receive consolation and a peace of mind until I prayed to God.
    After I prayed, I experienced a warmth and a peace that Tyler would be
    O.K.  I kept Tyler home from school the first two days.  Just an over
    protective parent I guess. He didn't fall at all.  He missed school 
    terribly so I let him go the third day and informed his teacher of his 
    incidents and asked if she would note any falling incidents.  Tyler
    hasn't had another unexplained fall.
    
    I would be more than happy to discuss this further or entertain any
    questions you may have.  My DTN is 485-3104
    
    Tolissa
    
    
    she would note any falling incidents.