Conference moira::parenting

    First I would try to see if my church hall or local "elks" club hall
    was available.  25 8 year olds in an apartment would be too much for
    me.
    
    I'd suggest you check the library for some book of party games for that
    age group.  They could play hangman/picturnary (sp), relay races
    (outside or in a hall), maybe go to the craft store and get a quick
    craft item for them to do (necklace of beads, hair bows,etc).
    
    Good luck.
    Chris

    GOOD LUCK!

    Why are the hours for the party so long?  We usually have our parties
    for 2 - 2 1/2 hours.  At my daughters 9th party we had 22 girls.  When
    they arrived, I gave them a goodie bag with markers and crayons and
    they had to decorate their bag while we waited for everyone to arrive. 
    After that we played, Simon Says and did the Hokey Pokey and Duck,
    Duck, Goose.  Then the magician arrived and while she did her thing for
    an hour, I put the t-shirts in the goody bag and got the dining room
    set for the cake.  After the magician left, we had cake and then
    presents and then parents arrived to whisk away their child.
    
    Roberta

    I have done many kids b-day parties in my apartment.  I could never
    have 25 kids in my apartment, which is an average size.  I agree with
    the previous noter, if you're going to have that many rent some space. 
    In fact we usually have half that many kids and it gets really cramped,
    especially when the parents come, and if you end at 6:00 thats dinner
    time, it will be utter chaos. I usually limit the parties to 2 - 2 1/2
    hours unless it's more of an extended family party, in which case it's
    more open ended. In good weather I do a pinata, the kids love it. 
    I prefer pinatas that are objects not people or animals, as that can
    upset parents and children to swing a bat at them (as we found out!).
    I use a hollow plastic bat usually purchased at Kmart, it's safer that
    way.  This also gets the kids out of the apartment and into more open space.
    
    This sounds like a really special party, one she'll remember forever. 
    Let us know how it goes.
    
    Marianne
                                                                               

    If you don't want to rent a place out, you could always go to a local
    park and entertain the kids there.  Many parks have picnic areas
    (Greeley Park in Nashua is one I'm thinking of) that you can use.
    
    Of course, the weather would have to cooperate!
    
    I think I would cut the party off at 5:00.  Having it end at 6:00 makes
    for a tough dinner hour all around.
    
    judy
    
    

    
    What are you NUTS?!?!?  (-:  I have a 3 bedroom duplex, that the kids
    have "the run of", minus my bedroom, but including the basement.  When
    there's more than about 8 kids in there, it's really pretty crazy, a
    LOT of singling-out and bickering.  
    
    I'm planning a 11-yr old b.day party, with a pile of kids (11-13 of
    them) that are either related or friends, and I know it's going to be
    bonkers - I couldn't IMAGINE doubling that number.
    
    LUCKILY, of the 25 she invites, you can count on no more than 2/3 of
    them showing up.
    
    Forget about controlling them (well, this is all based on BOYS!),
    because there will be 10 conversations going on, while you're trying to
    talk.  Don't expect them all to pay attention or listen.
    
    If you're still going to try to pull it off, try to do it outside - is
    there any common ground you can use?  Can you do it at a park or
    something?  Lots of them have picnic tables - or maybe one of those
    giant playgrounds??  8-yr-olds love them!!
    
    Of course that makes ice cream a lot tougher, but maybe you can get
    away without it??
    
    GET ORGANIZED!!  As soon as the kids arrive, assign them to "groups" or
    "teams" or whatever.  Use colors or letters - something to make it
    simpler.  Stick a big letter on their chest, or a large colored label.
    I would think name tags would help you out a lot.
    
    This way, if you're going to do games, they're already IN teams, and it
    makes it a lot more organized for you.
    
    I don't think that the time is too long - I know that planning 2-3
    hours for a party, I always run short.  But we tend to do a lot of
    games, and I'm not 100% organized.
    
    Enlist help.  Ask a few of the parents to stay and help.  
    
    TRY to structure it, and then don't insist that you stay with that. 
    Set SOME time lines for yourself, to keep on track "We have to start
    having cake by xxx"  "we have to start opening gifts at xxx" "I need to
    have a beer at xxx (NOW! (-:)"
    
    And above all, notify your immediate neighbors ... then they can plan
    to do something else if they don't feel like listening to 25 girls
    bouncing off the walls all afternoon! (-:
    
    *GOOD LUCK*!!!
    

    
    
    I'm going to make an unpopular suggestion:
    
    Tell daughter that 25 kids in your home (really *ANY* home
    for that matter!) is just not a reasonable request!  
    
    My oldest is only 6 so I'm not sure about this - but shouldn't
    an 8-year-old be able to negotiate and compromise?   What 
    about the old rule-of-thumb that the number of party guests
    should be about the same as the child's age (i.e. 8 - maybe
    invite 10 to acount for those unable to make it).   Will it
    be possible for you daughter to interact with each of the 25 
    guests during the party?   Maybe I have an old-fashioned sense
    of etiquette but I think the party child should give each
    of her guests some individual attention (am I out to lunch?).
    What about gift-opening? - that could take an hour with that
    many guests - and probably quite a boring hour for the guests!
    
    I think that you need some organized activities - crafts, 
    games, etc to keep a group even 1/2 this size organized and
    busy.   Decorate hats, make their own sundae, etc...
    
    I'd still try to press for a smaller party - up to and 
    including bribes.  "Gee, Matilda, if we only invite 10
    kids, we could get those *insert whatever is fashionable
    but $$* in addition to having your party".
    
    YMMV, 
    Carol     

    Near us (western Mass) there is a place called Kids Sports...its
    sort of a kid oriented Gym. It has a basketball court type space
    that gets used for BBall, soccer, etc. etc.  It has a huge McDonalds
    style area with 'tub of balls', climbing tubes, and other
    jungle gym type climbing/swinging apparatus.  It has a snack bar.
    It has arcade type games.  People can bring their kids there
    to play (all kids need to have someone their responsible for them,
    it is not drop off) and you can schedule birthday parties there.
    Its great for BIG parties, since there is lots of space and lots
    to do.

    Another place that people reserve is the local YMCA....even for pool
    parties if you can get parents to come.  The local Y lets parties occur
    in their Gym.

    You may want to consider something like that.
    bob

    
    How does a young child find 25 friends?  How can the parents affort a 
    child's party of this size (in both time and money)?  
    
    My daughter will be 6 this July and she's been hinting about inviting 
    all of her school friends. I don't know any of these children or their 
    parents.  I spoke with her teacher and asked if my daughter had any 
    *group* of friends that she hangs with, but she said 'no Sarah seems 
    to be friendly with everyone, one day she'll be playing with this group 
    but the next she'll be playing with that one'  So I don't know what to 
    do.  I feel strange about asking the teacher for a list of all the kids 
    in her class (about 20), but how do I single out a certain few, and how
    will I be sure that I'd be inviting the right ones?
    
    Any suggestions?
    
    Joyce
    
    Sarah's never been invited to anyones party, so would it be considered
    acceptable to invite people's children who don't know anything about
    us?

    Alex's guests have always been about 3/4 school friends and 1/4 friends
    from summer camp, or children of my friends, or relatives.  As soon as
    I saw the mention of 25 kids in this note, I thought "She's inviting
    the whole class!"--and what kid wouldn't want to have a blowout for the
    whole class?!
    
    I am *SO* glad I made it a house rule that # of guests is Not To Exceed
    the age of the birthday child.  Alex can insist all she likes, but she
    will not be permitted to extend invitations indefinitely.  (If she
    does, she learns what it's like to have to rescind an invitation and
    admit that it was unauthorized!  Not a cool social move!)
    
    Yup, I've found no problems inviting children I've never met.  I always
    put "RSVP" with my phone number (amazing how many people ignore it),
    and the parents who call chat a little bit; when the arrive at the
    party, they (the parents) are invited in and usually stay just a couple
    minutes to scope out the scene.
    
    Leslie

    Forgot to say, we choose the invitees together; Alex puts together a
    wish list and we winnow it down to the magic number.  Most of her
    friends have a similar limit imposed by their parents; there aren't
    many hurt feelings, unless invitations are obviously handed out in
    school, in front of a non-invitee.
    
    I've never had a problem getting a list of classmates; it's easiest at
    the beginning of the year (the first class open house), but most years
    a list comes home right before Valentine's Day :-) so no one gets
    forgotten at the V-day party.
    
    Leslie

>>    how do I single out a certain few, and how
>>    will I be sure that I'd be inviting the right ones?

You don't; your daughter does.  You set the number, and let her decide who to
invite.  It doesn't matter if she changes social groups frequently, most kids
do at that age.  And it doesn't matter if "certain people" get left out this
time, there will be other birthday parties, and more circles of friends.

>>    Sarah's never been invited to anyones party, so would it be considered
>>    acceptable to invite people's children who don't know anything about
>>    us?

Yes.  You've got to start somewhere!  If people have questions, they'll ask. 
Sometimes a birthday party is a great way for the parents to find out about the
other kids' parents.

My daughter will be eight this summer.  She's had friends she's invited one
year, not the next year, back the year after that.  She's had friends come to
exactly one birthday party who she's never seen again.  It's not a big deal;
it's supposed to be fun for her and her friends, not a major social obligation.

The only thing I would suggest is that your daughter be told not to talk about
the party except in private with the people she's inviting (or perhaps don't
talk about it at school at all); it isn't very nice to tell people they're not
invited, etc.

						Brian

    
    Do most schools allow/do a classroom celebration on a child's 
    birthday?    Maybe that would eliminate the need to invite
    everyone in the class.   
    
    Carol  

    Alex reports that usually the birthday child brings in a snack
    (cupcakes or brownies, whatever--enough to go around, & don't forget
    the teacher) and the class sings "Happy Birthday".
    
    I think in her 1st-4th grade school a different birthday song was sung
    at the monthly school gathering in the "cafetorium", to honor that
    month's birthday kids.
    
    Picking nits here (probably a semantics issue) but I don't agree
    there's a "need" to invite everyone in the class!
    
    Leslie

    My daughters have always been allowed to invite every girl in their
    class, then we have the friends from the "neighborhood", and cousins. 
    That always gives us between 15 and 25 girls.
    
    We also get our list from school (ours have always sent home a list
    after the first couple of months of school - birthdays aren't until Jan
    and Feb, so we have always had the list in time).
    
    I always have provided a goodbag/t-shirt for everykid invited, so they
    get it whether they come to the party or not.
    
    We also do the "send a snack" for the whole class (although I did ask
    my daughter (she just turned 9) at what age can I stop doing this.  As
    far as she's concerned NEVER, but I'll  have to draw that line
    sometime.
    
    I also told her that next year I may do just a sleep over and limit the
    amount of friends....we'll see.
    
    Roberta

I've heard of (private) schools that require children to invite all their
classmates if they invite more the N of their classmates.  I think this is
a good idea.

    Sarah's birthday is July 4th, after school is dismissed for the year. 
    How would I go about inviting kids from her school in this situation? 
    I wouldn't know their home addresses.
    
    Any suggestions?
    
    Joyce

The school should be able to provide you with a class list or school directory. 
My daughter's birthday is in summer, too, but we usually use the directory info
and invite kids either by phone or by mail.

						Brian

    Like several of the other noters we've given our daughter a limit on
    how many to invite.  Last year we were going to Chuck E. Cheese and
    the number was the number of children we could fit in the cars (no more
    than 9).  About 6-8 weeks before the party we start working on our
    list.  She gives me names and I write them down.  Then, about once a 
    week we review the list until about 3 weeks before the party.  You'll
    see names come on and off the list.  Everytime a name changes, I
    question it and she gives me a reason.  When she wants a new friend to 
    come, we decide who comes off the list.  3 weeks before the party we do
    a final review and I put out invitations.  At no time does she set the
    number of people coming to the party.  Last year we invited 9 kids and
    7 showed up.
    
    This year, we're going to try something new for her.  Instead of a big
    party, we're going to let her invite 2 friends for a sleepover.  They
    will come either late Friday or early Saturday, we'll do something big
    (like go the Science Museum or Children's Museum) and then a special
    dinner.  We'll see how that works.
    
    Irene

	Thanks to all for  good and creative suggestions. Please keep them
	coming. I particularly liked the idea of decorating T-shirts and will
	use it.

	RE: .9 - Let me clarify - we live in France, where school starts 
	at the age of 3. Being 8, my daughter has had same school friends 
	for the past 5 years. They change class settings every year, but 
	continue to mix together. Out of 25, 17 are her school friends, 
	and 8 are our friends' children, neighbours, or friends from her 
	dance class. She has already been invited by most of these kids at 
	least once. 









    
    

    
    For summer parties, I know that we've received invites at the end of
    the school year, for a party a month or two out.  
    
    I usually ask the kids who they WANT to invite, and if it's too many,
    then we try to narrow it down a little.  I usually "inist" (well,
    STRONGLY encourage!), that everyone know at least 1 other person that's
    invited, besides the birthday boy.  Then that way, there's no one left
    feeling "singled out".  This seems to go over quite easily.
    
    "Well, Mike knows Jessica and Johnny, and Adam knows Johnny and Jason,
    and Ben and Matt and Phil all were in the same class" .... even if it ends
    up as several "groups" of kids that know each other, at least there's
    SOMEone!
    
    Good Luck!
    patty

    I am a public park person.  I also am on strike against more than the
    age of the child for number of people invited, unless I have a
    cooperative friend or other parent to help out.
    
    If you get up early enough (we live near a park that doesn't hav
    reservations for things) you can get the pavilion and set things up in
    there, or rent or buy a tarp for stuff that has to be out of the
    weather.  Carrie was born 9-25, and te weather is usually wonderful in
    Solorado then.  Atlehi may be fun being early May, and Lolita was so
    anti-huge-gathering that late march wasn't a problem for her, we never
    had more than 6 kids.  
    
    The roller rinks, ice-rinks, and some discovery-type zones are also
    available, for a price.  They do have the advantage of having added
    help for dealing with kids.  This help does come at a price, and trust
    me, they earn it.  
    
    I guess my message is:
    
    1.  know how many kids you and an SO can handle alone.  Stick with that
    limit.
    
    2.  If you can afford it, enlist professional help for large parties. 
    Kids are a challenge, especially if they are o different ages.
    
    3.  Enlist and volunteer help with a neighbor who has a child your age. 
    Claire and I have traded off more than once.
    
    4.  Make sure the birthday is no more than two hours, especially if you
    are trying this on your own.  Been there, done that, have the grey
    hair, wrinkles and spots on the rug, walls, and lack of band-aids.  If
    you are feeding the kids, feed them the protien stuff first, and save
    the cake and sugar for the last 1/2 hour.  I don't care what the
    "experts" say, sugar spins kids up IME.  
    
    5.  have great "loot bags" that you hand out at the end of the party. 
    They are a hit with kids of all ages.  Handing them out earlier may
    result in the same results as early sugar.  (Tried that, let's just
    say, it is an "unsupported" thing to do if you value your sanity and
    your house.)  Tattoos, erasers, puzzles, sweets, etc. all count as
    "good things" for kids.  
    
    6.  I also make sure I send them home with a helium balloon appeiece,
    but I have a store in the neighborhood that sells balloons cheaply. 
    YMMV.  Get at least three extra balloons.  
    
    meg

    re -.7
    
    Boy, do I agree with *that* veto....and the "rule of thumb", too.  I
    read that somewhere, and I think it's a great guideline.
    
    I had to take my grandaughter to a party for a 3yr. old "Gymboree
    mate".  They had 18 three year olds at Chuck E.  Cheese!!!!!
    
    Too, too, too much.  My daughter had 2 cousins of Olivia's when she
    turned 3, at their house, and that was just fine.  
    
    Just tell her how many kids she'll be allowed to invite....PERIOD!
    End of subject.  
    
    Regards,
    Lorraine

    Discovered a place that may be a different spot to hold a party for a
    small group.
    
    There's a store in Newton called "Colorfully Yours".  The owner has
    ceramic pieces that she sells unpainted.  The child/children can choose
    something to paint/decorate themselves for a gift for Mom, Dad, or
    whomever.  
    
    I took my grandaughter (3) last week; she selected a candlestick for
    her mother's birthday/Mother's Day.  They can choose their piece, and
    the colors to use.  You leave it there and she finishes it up, firing,
    glazing, and you pick it up the following week. 
    
    It was fun for Olivia, and something a little different, and I enjoyed
    taking her.  You wouldn't want to take too many kids, though, because
    the store is fairly small.
    
    Lorraine
            

    While we're on the thoughts of birthday parties, how about some
    suggestions for party places (ie: Chuck E Cheese, DiscoveryZone, etc). 
    I would be interested in the South NH area, but add other locations
    since people from all over read this notesfile.
    
    My son is going to be 8 and he's currently thinking of "where he wants to
    go with a few friends" this year.  
    
    My suggestion for here (since we did it last year) is to go the
    Metamorphosis Museum in Londonderry NH.  I don't recall the price per
    child (maybe $4.50) and you get the birthday room for 2 hours and
    admission for each child to the museum.  It was pretty cool.
    
    Chris

    We had a double party for two of my daughters....now 7 and 8.
    Both birthdays were in late winter, and they wanted a swimming
    party.  So we booked the YMCA pool and party room for 20 kids,
    they each got to invite 8 friends (plus our 4 kids made 20 total).
    We had cake/pizza in a small room, played some games, and then
    went swimming for an hour (the Y supplied one life guard, plus
    my wife and I).

    The kids had a blast!  Me too!
    bob

    I am a public park freak, (see earlier notes.)  it gives kids plenty of
    room to roam and run, and I can usually get a pavillion and/or barbecue
    grill.  Carrie's b-day is in late September which is generally great
    warm weather.  We have bobbed for apples (wet and messy) eaten them off
    strings, good for screams, have room for running games, and Frank or I
    can manage the grill while one or more other people work kids.  
    
    Cheap if you get reservations, free, if you have a non-reserved park
    area, and what is left of my backyard doesn't get completely trashed.  
    
    
    meg

    My nephew turned 8 last November and my sister had a "reptile" party at 
    home for several of his friends.
    
    Someone came to the house (the garage of course), and brought several
    reptiles....snakes included....for the kids to examine closely and hear
    whatever about them.  I saw some pictures, and the snake was laying in
    the collective arms of the group.  I thought it was a unique idea....
    altogether too gross for me, but the boys loved it.
    
    Lorraine
    
    

    Lorraine,
    
    What a great idea.  My son would love this.  His birthday is mid June
    so you can't depend on nice/warm weather.  So to be outside would be
    risky at best.  But to have someone come with creatures!  He would love
    it.  
    
    Any idea where I could call?  I'll check the phone books - now what
    should I look under - that's the question....
    
    Thanks!

    
    My daughter's preschool had a visit from a milk snake, a toad, and a
    bat from Drumlin Farm. Maybe give them a call. Also the Worcester
    Science Center may do stuff like this also. 
    
    Patty

    Chris,
    
    Can you find the ParentTimes (you live in Southern NH, right?)?  These
    are free papers that I find at the dentist, my daycare, my
    pediatrician, etc.  They have ads and I know I saw one for someone who
    has reptiles.
    
    judy

    My 3.5 yr old daughter just went to a birthday party where they went on
    a Fire House tour.  The fireman showed them around the fire house, the
    trucks, the sleeping quarters.  The kids got to see a fireman go down
    the pole and make the siren go.  The kids got to climb all over the
    trucks/engines and got honorary badges too.  My daughter now wants to
    be a fire fighter when she grows up.

    re -.29
    
    I see you have some pointers in the replies preceding this, but I will
    call my sister today, Thurs., (she lives in Chatham), just to see where 
    she found this person.  Of course, he may have been local, but I'm sure 
    he could give some hints.
    
    Regards,
    Lorraine

    RE .31
    
    I'll pick a ParentTimes up tonight.  I saw them this morning at
    daycare.
    
    Thanks!
    Chris

	Thank you all for your help. The party happened last week, and was a
	success! (although I'm still a little tired ...) All of 25 children
	showed up, and filled the living room. This is what we were doing:

	1. From 2:30-3:15, waiting for everybody to arrive:  - fight with 
	baloons. Everybody had a baloon to fight with, similar to pillow
	fights. There were plenty of baloons to replace the broken ones. After
	a fight, everybody was ready for a calmer and quieter game.

	2. 3:15-3:45 - Muscal chairs like game, everybody sitting on the floor.
	The latest to sit was out. 

	3. 3:45-5:00 Magician! He ended with animal shaped baloons for
	everybody and honestly earned his money.

	4. 5:00-5:25 - Birthday Cake.

	5. 5:25 - ??? (The latest parent left at 7:00 - we eat late in Europe
	:-)), several more games with children sitting in a circle, dance
	competition, etc.

	It was fun. I completely emptied the living room, coridors, and my
	daughter's bedroom: put table in a corner, took carpet out, etc - you
	get the picture... I also payed my elder daughter to play with/animate
	the party.


        Thanks again for your invaluable help. 
    
                                                 

    Re: .35
    
    Sounds wonderful!  I'll bet this is a party your child will never
    forget.
    
    Marianne