Conference moira::parenting

    
    Yikes!   I also have a 6.5 year old son and thankfully
    haven't heard anything on this subject yet (knock on 
    wood).  Geez, they truly do grow up fast!!
    
    So, you know I have no practical experience but I do
    have a suggestion.   How about contacting the school
    nurse and/or his teacher for recommendations on how
    to handle this?   I know you said you didn't want him
    bringing it up at school but I think you'd be surprised
    what the teachers hear.   I pretty confident that the
    nurse at my son's kindergarten school would have good
    advice on this topic (she's really great!) - maybe yours
    might also?
    
    Good luck and keep us informed!
    Carol

    Andy,
    I can't speak from experience on this - my daughter is only 20 months
    old so I have a lot of time to think about it.  It sounds like you
    covered some good basic points, however I would suggest that you try to
    be more receptive about discussing sex rather than making it a
    forbidden subject.  If it is viewed as forbidden I would think your son
    would be more curious.  In terms of him asking a teacher, I would think
    that the teacher would be used to questions such as that and not be
    particularly shocked by it.
    If it was me..I would proably bring up the subject in a casual way and
    ask if he had any questions about it.  I would mention that some people
    view the subject of sex as private and then I would try to answer his
    questions.  
    An acquaintance of mine had her son asking the same questions at age 7
    and he was capable of understanding the basic lecture as well as
    understanding that sex was a private matter.
    There must be some books on this.
    Nancy   

    
    My daughter asked about where babies came from when she was in 
    kindergarten. At that time, my answer was women have eggs and
    men have sperms, put them togther, viola, a baby. She was happy
    with the answer for a while. Then came the question about sex.
    Well, my answer was women have vaginas and men have penises,
    put them together, that's sex and that's how the sperms meet
    the eggs and that's how babies are made. "Eeoouuwww, gross!!" 
    she exclaimed. That's was a few of years ago and I don't think
    she would be having sex any time soon. My daughter is on the
    verge of puberty, and sex is still the grossiest thing. Of course,
    beside the physiological aspect of sex, I told her what *I* 
    thought of it socially and morally and how other people may view
    it and also the diseases that can be transmitted.
    
    Now, I believe I need to be completely honest with her at any
    age and I need to make myself available to talk about anything,
    anything at all, at anytime no matter how uncomfortable it is for 
    me, otherwise she would talk to everyone else but me!  I also 
    believe if I'd made sex into a taboo - don't talk to people about 
    it, etc, I would be in a deep hole now - curiosity would kill the 
    kitten. I believe sex is a normal part of life and should be treated 
    as such. I hope that by giving her the correct information and by
    raising her with good values and by encouraging her to use her
    brain to combine the info with the values, she will be able to make
    the best/right decisions when time comes.
    
    
    Eva
    

    There are some good books suggested in PARENTING in other notes that
    I've been thinking of looking up for my sons, who are now almost 5 and
    8.  Better to be prepared, if not proactive.
    
    I constantly remind myself to answer the question that is asked, rather
    than to go into a discourse on <whatever subject>. Keeping that in mind
    is very helpful to me.
    
    I heard part of an interview with Dr. Foster, the other day, who was
    one of President Clinton's candidates for Surgeon General. Dr. Foster
    said that over 65% of children in the U.S. get their first information
    on sex education from peers rather than parents. Made me stop and
    think.
    
    I think the basenoter might feel better to get some helpful reading
    material, and then have a short conversation with your son, providing
    some information, while also acknowledging to him that kids often think
    it's cool to talk about this stuff, but don't always have the correct
    information. Let him know that you have the information, make yourself
    available for the questions, and then suggest that it's like bathroom
    words - there's a time and a place for it!
    
    best of luck,
    Lynn
    

>  however I would suggest that you try to
>  be more receptive about discussing sex rather than making it a
>  forbidden subject. 

Perhaps I didn't explain it here very well; perhaps I didn't explain it
_then_ very well (I do feel I handled it pretty poorly)

I do not wish to make it a forbidden subject.  As I mentioned, I was caught
off guard and simply did not know how to approach it.  To be honest, while
shocked at the topic (for a child his age, that is), I was very pleased
that he came to me with the question.  It is comforting to know what he
finds me approachable for discussion of subjects of this sort.

Thanks for the feedback.

-Andy

    
    Andy,
    
    Be sure that you do praise your son for coming to you with 
    his question.  If he felt your discomfort, he may be afraid
    to come to you again.  
    
    My son is 9 and the first time he came to me was when he 
    was about 4 with the "Where do babies come from" question.
    I answered just like the previous notes, just the basics.
    Well, he has come home with more and more questions as he
    has gotten older.  Each time, answer the question honestly
    and openly.  I, too, told my son that sex is a private thing
    and should not be discussed in public (just basic manners
    not in a way that would make it sound 'dirty')
    
    I already have a book already that is just waiting for him
    to be ready for the complete explaination.  
    
    Check with your local library.  They should have something
    
    Good luck,
    Pam
    

    Children are exposed to sexuality at such a young age nowadays.  With
    TV and other children's conversation being more and more explicit,
    children are asking questions younger and younger.  My 3.5 year old is
    asking the "where do babies come from?" question and I was able to
    answer with the basic "daddy plants an egg in mommy's tummy, and
    Voila!".  However, my daughter's best frined, who is also 3.5, has
    started with playing doctors at school, exposing themselves to each
    other to see what everyone has in their private spots.  Her mother says
    that they have had questions more detailed about how babies are made
    and how do them come out after they are done "baking" in mommy's tummy. 
    I think each child is different in their questions and their need for a
    detailed reponse or not.  I plan to take each question as they come and
    hope I am honest, yet discreet, in my response.  Best of luck to all
    of you with inquisitive minds.

    There are other notes on this topic, either in here or in previous
    versions.
    
    I think you should think about what you want to say to your son and
    approach him with:
    
    "Remember the other day when you asked about sex?  Well, I don't think
    I answered it the way I would if I thought about it more.  Can we talk
    about it again?"
    
    He then learns that Daddy doesn't always have the answers, but Daddy
    can come back with them some other time. 
    
    Also, if you are ever uncomfortable about anything, you can say I need
    to think about this and talk about it later.  Just make sure you get
    back to it or he won't trust you.
    
    judy

    Just a few comments.  This is always such an uncomfortable subject.

    We have 4 kids (6, 7, 8, 10) and they bring up the subject
    reasonably often.  The oldest is a boy, then 3 girls.  They all
    clearly see the simple differences between boys and girls.  They
    see pregnant women.  We have sheep and they see the sheep mating.
    They watch animal specials on TV, and there is a distinct increase
    in the level of detail dealing with mating in these shows.

    Once we were watching a special on elephants with my parents and
    they started showing 'mating'.  The bull finally reared up behind
    the female, 6 foot erection waving in front of him, and the
    kids were all eyes!  Molly (now 8) jumped up and said 'Mom, is
    that how Dad does it?'.  I thought my Mom would never stop laughing.
    She, by the way, ONCE tried to bring up 'the subject' when I was
    about 14, and I told her I knew all about it and that was the end of
    THAT subject.

    For us the biggest topic that keeps it going is that our oldest
    3 kids are adopted.  When kids think about being adopted, that
    naturally leads to the whole question of birth mothers (rarely
    birth fathers), giving birth, getting pregnant, and sex.  I bet
    once a week one of the kids muses on their birth mother, what
    she might be doing, or wanting to hear 'their story' of how we
    got the call and picked them up, or wondering about why the
    agency keeps some things secret.  Or sometimes its our youngest
    feeling depressed that she only has one mother and the other kids
    have two.  Or someone wanting to hear the descriptions of what their
    birth mother looked like (and our youngest will jokingly muse on what
    hers might look like).

    The best answer I can give is to start as young as you can....think
    how easy it would be to explain sex to a newborn!  This way you get a
    lot of practice.  I think the older they get, the harder it will be.
    bob

    I think it's great that your child came to you.  Even if your child
    only needs a very simple answer right now over time the questions
    and issues will become more complex, i.e. health and morality oriented. 
    Relax with it and allow the open lines of communication to begin even
    in its simple grade school version.  If your child feels comfortable
    coming to you then you can have an enormous influence on your childs
    morality and health as they grow into adulthood.  If they sense
    embarrasement it may hinder this from happening, as their issues may
    become secretive forcing them to get their ideas about sex from peers
    and unfortunately TV.
    
    I think most parents feel caught off gaurd when their children ask these
    questions for the first time, that's only natural. I like the idea of
    books as mentioned in the previous notes. I had a really nice one for my
    daughter.  It had wonderful pictures of babies in their different stages
    of development during pregnancy.
    
    Marianne                              
            

    My oldest daughter is now 8.5 years old.  She knows some things, but
    not the in-depth why reasons for them.
    
    She knows mommy has a period, she knows what I use, where I put it,
    what the blood is, how long it stays, etc.  But doesn't know why I get
    it.  She knows she will get it soon and isn't worried about it.
    
    When I was pregnant with my second daughter, she asked (then age 3) how
    the baby came out.  I answered very simply, "The doctor gets it".  When
    I came home from the hospital (after a c-section) and wanted to see
    where the doctor got the baby out.  So I showed her.  I never said
    where babies were SUPPOSED to come out.  A year later her little friend
    next door told my daughter how she was born.  Of course this differed
    from where mine was born.  So I explained that sometimes babies come
    out of one place and sometimes they come out another.  
    
    She asked me once how babies got in my tummy, and while I was searching
    for an answer, she answered it herself, "I know.  God puts it there!" 
    I was a little relieved, and she seemed content with her own answer.
    
    I know she is going to ask me VERY SOON about sex and I've been
    thinking alot about it, but still haven't come up with any answers.  I
    think I'm going to go to my local bookstore and look for a book on the
    subject.  I thought I had seen a book called something like "An answer
    for all Children's questions" or something like that.  I'll have to
    check it out.
    
    I'll let you know if I find anything good.
    
    

Note 592 is where this has been discussed in this version of PARENTING
before ("Facts of life" for 5-yr.-old? ).

Evan is now 8, and we've talked more than what I wrote in 592.9, though much 
has been repetition of what we had talked about before.  He knows a little
more about sex than he did before, or at least we've talked about it (sometimes
briefly) and I can never know how much he actually remembers.  

I've told him that when a man and woman have sex, that they do lots of kissing
and touching and that the man puts his penis into the woman's vagina.  I've
explained ejaculation and orgasm in general (letting him know both could have
it, and some differences in the two).  I explained the concept of birth
control, and pregnancy not being tied to marriage (because he thought only
married people could have babies, which can be a dangerous idea later on). 
I gave him this information over the course of several conversations, stopping
when he wanted to move on.  Sometimes the "conversations" have been less than
a minute long, just a reference to something he heard on TV (like birth
control).  Other times they've gone 5 minutes or more.

The problem I had when I was a child was that I was taught tons about
reproduction and little to nothing about *sex*, so that I was dangerously
ignorant about sex when I was 12.  I have vowed to make sure that doesn't
happen to my kids, but I've found that it is easier for me to talk about
reproduction than about sex.  Therefore, my vow is harder than I thought.  :-} 

I've always tried to keep it casual when he's asked about sex, answering in
a tone of voice as if he were asking about what dinner was going to be.  I feel
that he is more comfortable and asks more questions that way, and I'd much
rather have him ask me than ask his friends.  I know that body parts are 
discussed extensively with friends; I assume that kissing and sex are, too.
(This is easy to figure out because I use the term "penis" and Evan started
using the term "wienie".  There were other, similar clues as well)  :-}

So far my casual approach seems to be working.  He still asks questions when
they come up, and he still grabs his brother and runs from the room when
there's kissing on the TV screen.  :-)

You may want to check notes 592.* for other ideas.

        Carol


           <<< MOIRA::MOIRA$NOTES:[NOTES$LIBRARY]PARENTING.NOTE;3 >>>
                                 -< Parenting >-
================================================================================
Note 592.9               "Facts of life" for 5-yr.-old?                  9 of 27
CSC32::DUBOIS "Discrimination encourages violence"   29 lines  27-SEP-1993 18:16
                         -< some of our conversations >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Evan is 5.5 and we've talked about the following:
	menstruation and tampons ("a woman's body never knows when the woman
		might want to make a baby, so it makes special food for the
		baby to eat inside her body.  That food is kind of like blood,
		and when the body knows that the woman isn't going to be
		make a baby that month, then it makes the food go away.
		Tampons soak up the blood so it doesn't get messy on the
		woman's clothes."
	pregnancy - the growth of the fetus
	birth
	what testicles are, and that sperm is made there
	that sperm and a woman's egg can together make a baby
	that sex is not just kissing, but for him would involve his penis
	that sex is something that should only be when he *and* the other
		person want it (apparently he and one of his male friends
		have been chasing the girls around, trying to kiss them;
		it wasn't clear to me how the girls felt about it.  "We were
		trying to make sex with them," he told me.)
	that sex isn't for 5 year olds, or even for 10 year olds
	that if a grownup ever touchs him there, to tell us because grownups
		and other kids shouldn't touch kid's private areas, and that
		even if he liked it if someone did it, that it isn't his fault.

Sometimes I say things right, and sometimes I say them wrong.  Usually it's
not a planned conversation, but something that just comes up spontaneously.
For Shellie, it usually happens when they have just turned onto the busiest
street in town.  :-)

    Carol	

    Hi Andy!,
    
    I'm going through it with my girls too!  My oldest is full of
    questions, mostly about babies.  We were flipping through the
    channels the other night and on PBS they were showing a baby
    being born, the girls wanted to watch for a while so we did. 
    They didn't have to many questions afterward????
    
    I think I'm going to the library and see what they have to help
    explain and illustrate.  I would much rather my kids know the
    truth about sex (from me)then their friends telling what they think they
    know.
    
    Andy, we are getting OLD!
    
    See ya,
    
    Cindy

    
    With child no 2 on the way, we figured that Kathryn would ask tons of
    questions when we told her the news so had tried to prepare ourselves
    in advance.
    
    We picked up a book in the US by Joanna Cole, called "How You Were
    Born"  after browsing through several.  We were not looking for a book
    on sex, but more that explained about babies.  We've found this book to
    be ideal for our 5 year old.  It contains a useful pre-face for parents
    as well as pictures and drawings.  It talks about sperm, eggs and cells
    but without reference to intercourse itself.
    
    We've tried not to use it too much, but when Kathryn was asking how big
    the baby was, it was useful to show her the pics and later explain what
    happens during the pregnancy.
    
    Like others have said, the questions don't all come at once, but over a
    period of time and could be for one or more minutes.  Kathryn likes to
    look through this book with me.
    
    Jackie

    
    Andy,
    
    You have my sympathies.  I remember when Chris first asked me (I think
    he was 8ish), and I was driving .... I thought I was going to crash!!
    
    Last year, Jason was 7, and was POORLY misinformed from his older
    brother, so I was forced to talk to him about it, and explain the true
    facts.  
    
    It's never been an easy subject for me, but having never been "spoken
    to" as a child, and learning everything, strictly from curing my
    curiosity, I've vowed to do better for my children.  They know whatever
    they've asked.  They know emotionally, that love is SUPPOSED to be
    there, but that some people don't feel like they need to be in love,
    and then it isn't really as special.  They know that it's supposed to
    be very wonderful, but sometimes, especially if it's the wrong person,
    or for the wrong reasons, it can make you feel very very bad.  They
    know all the physical aspects of it (that was the easier part).  They
    also know that they are being trusted with information that other kids
    their age might not know, and that they should have respect for others
    and their opinions and beliefs.  They've been told not to tease other
    kids for "not knowing" because there was a time they didn't know.  They
    know that if they joke about it, they could get themselves, or someone
    else in trouble.  They understand the basics of unconsenting sex,
    enough to know not to mess around with it (saying I'm gonna make her!
    or anything like that!), and enough to know that they should never EVER
    allow someone to do something they don't want to.  They also know that
    there are places and times when it's appropriate to discuss it, or not.
    It helps that my boyfriend's a REAL prude about discussing it, and so
    in front of him is "off limits". (if we don't talk about it, it doesn't
    exist).
    
    All of these things (and probably more) came out over the course of
    several conversations.  And it still goes on.  It certainly heightens
    the stress level a notch, when you know that at any moment in time
    they can come up with any number of questions.  It makes me feel great
    that they can talk to me - it's just very awkward at times.  Going on
    3-4 years, with Chris knowing, I can honestly say that it doesn't ever
    seem to get less awkward.  Hopefully you'll have better luck than me!
    
    Basically - try to keep it simple enough for the child.  We haven't
    talked about more subtle things.  We actually really haven't discussed
    the details of becoming pregnant at all (except the physical
    insertion).  When we talk about sex, we talk about BABIES, and that if
    you're going to have sex, make *SURE* that you're ready to deal with
    having a baby.  And if you're not ready for a baby, then make sure that
    *YOU* are doing something to be sure it doesn't happen.  I've been
    clear to tell them that *THEY* always need to take responsibility, and
    to not believe that "things are handled".  I don't know if they'll
    follow my warnings, but we can drill that in more when they're older. 
    I've also told them that I would hope that they'd wait until they were
    in love with a very special girl, so that it could mean the most for
    them, but if they decided not to wait, to please *ALWAYS* know that
    they can come to me if they need condoms or whatever.  I've vowed to
    just shut my mouth and give them to them, if they ask.  We'll see what
    happens when the time comes (-:  
    
    I've tried to keep it simple, but also stress the morals that I hope
    they carry on.  
    
    And DO feel free to tell your son (even compelled to tell him!) that he
    caught you off guard and you just weren't ready at the time, to give
    him a good answer.  Now is the stage to set for the rest of your
    conversations.  Set it carefully, and be careful of anything that
    sounds judgemental.
    
    Case in Point:  My boyfriend's daughter is starting to develop a chest.
    She's awkward and uncomfortable about it, and ~2 years ahead of the
    other girls in her class.  So, she jokes about it sometimes.  Well,
    this w/end, her little brother was leaning on her, and "squishing" her.
    She said to him "Greg!  Don't lay there - it hurts!!" he wouldn't
    move, and finally she yelled "GREG!  Get up!!"  Her dad screamed at her
    to stop yelling, and she said "Well, he wouldn't get up, and he was
    squishing my boob, and it hurt".  She got the riot act read to her for
    talking with a trash-mouth (boob is a forbidden word, I guess) on and
    on.  I doubt she'll ever discuss anything personal with him, and it's
    really too bad.  She loses 1/2 of her "resources" for good information.
    She came to me later, wanting to know what she'd done wrong, and if it
    was "supposed" to hurt, and concerned about what she should call them,
    if "boob" wasn't okay.  I was a bit lost, because that's the word I
    usually use ... (-:  Ummmmmm - try Pectoral muscles - or Pecs for
    short, and see if he likes that better! (-:  I know - I'm no help. 
    It's your breasts, and I guarantee he won't want to hear that!!!
    
    Hmmmm ... anyway, the point was, if you dislike a term they use, I
    think it's better to calmly explain why, so that the child listens to
    you, versus blowing up, and just having the kid think "Well, I can't
    say anything sexual in front of him/her without getting yelled at!".
    

    
    I had to chuckly on the Bull story...One time my mom took us
    to the Bronx Zoo and we went into the Gorilla House and all
    of a sudden Mom got all flustered and said "lets come back 
    later and dragged us out...the Gorilla's were "doing" it.
    
    The funny part is my brother and I wouldn't even have 
    really noticed it if Mom hadn't freaked out.