Conference moira::parenting

    Marianne,
    
    Paul has the same problems it seems from November - March.  Starts out
    with the cold, clear runny nose and within 24 hours his appetite has
    decreased and he starts "Mommy ear hurts".  He is on Amoxicillin till
    the end of March and it took three different antibiotics to clear the
    infection that started in January.  (Actually he started in November
    but when the antibiotic was done in 10 days, three days later it would
    be back.  It took until the beginning of the year for us to figure out
    that 10 days on the medicine was never enough.  It takes two weeks for
    Paul and the amoxicillin after as a precautionary).  During the rest of
    the year Paul is pretty good and probably has had less than a dozen ear
    infections since his birth.  
    
    When Paul was 10 weeks old, he developed Bronchilitis and they told me
    that he could possibly be asmatic but it was too soon to tell.  Paul
    also developed Bronchitis once a year since then and had a hard time
    breathing.  It was recommended that we keep the house cool at night,
    maybe a window open a crack and not to run a fireplace or woodstove
    because it would dry out the house.  We have these same types of things
    to be bad for ear infections too.  
    
    
    FWIW,
    
    cj

    
    Allergies - every kid is different, but the *general* consensus
    is that diary products cause more mucous production in certain
    people.
    
    Ear infections - they are not caused by a disease per say, in
    children (and adults too) who have narrow eustacian tubes, the 
    mucous caused by colds/flus/teething/allergies (food or pollen) 
    cannot drain adequately to the outside (the mouth), the back up 
    of mucous creates a perfect condition for bacteria to multiply 
    and thus the infection. The same theory applies to sinus infections.
    From my experience, the only way to prevent in an ear infection is 
    to control the symptoms of the colds/flus/whatnot, such that mucous 
    will not be produced in copious amount in a thick consistency.
    I find that OTC cold medicine that helps the drainage of mucous
    such as decongestants and lots of fluid usually does the job.
    Stop the symptoms at the very beginning goes a long way.
    
    
    Eva

    Aaron had ear infection after ear infection this year as well.  With
    the last one (Diagnosed 2/24) we stopped giving him an evening bottle
    (formula) thinking that perhaps it was causing what Eva was talking
    about, production of mucous that would drain properly when he's in bed. 
    He was also on a maintenance antibiotic (amoxicillan) that we
    discontinued since he's gotten 3 infections while on it.  Well, Aaron's
    ears are still clear.  I'm hoping that they'll stay that way for the
    rest of the season.
    
    One thing you can try is restricting dairy products at least 2 or 3
    hours before your child bedtime.  It may not help but it probably won't
    hurt, either.
    
    Good luck!
    
    sandy

    1115.3  should have said:
    
    Aaron had ear infection after ear infection this year as well.  With
    the last one (Diagnosed 2/24) we stopped giving him an evening
    bottle (formula) thinking that perhaps it was causing what Eva was talking
    about, production of mucous that WOULDN'T drain properly when he's in
    bed.                                     

Shruthi(almost 3!) has exactly the same symptoms as .0  Almost all through the
winter, she has a runny nose - sometimes clear, sometimes really thick mucous. 
Some of the times, this leads to an ear infection - not all the times.
In fact, I just noticed today that after three weeks, her nose seems to have
stopped running - keeping my fingers crossed!

I spoke to the pedi about this last time I saw him - his opinion was that she
was not having a cold, but this runny nose was the result of allergies. 
Allergic to what - he didn't have an answer.  And they really do not want to do
any testing at this age.  I asked him if there was anything that I could do to
prevent this/help her out a little and he said no.  We have tried different
kinds of decongestants, cold medicines, but none have been effective.  So pretty
much all that we do, is to keep cleaning her nose every few minutes!

We also run a humidifier in her room constantly all nights in the winter - we
found that this helps a lot.

Re .-1:
diary products - my pedi mentioned that this is probably the most frequent cause
of allergies.  However, my daughter loves cheese - she will eat her lunch
completely only if it is a cheese sandwich!  We try to avoid diary products for
dinner and she refuses to drink any milk - so, do you think cutting down on the
cheese would help?


If you find out anything from your pedi that would help, I would love to hear it!

--Chaya.

    
    This dairy product theory is very interesting and seems to put somewhat
    of an explaination of my son's problem last winter.  TJ in his first
    year had 15 ear infections between September and March.  His Pedi put
    him on antibiotics from Sept - March; even if his ear cleared up, he
    said, let's keep him on an antibiotic for the whole season just as a 
    precaution.  Guess what, it didn't work, every two weeks, screaming
    baby with ear infections.  
    
    Now, TJ was a VERY heavy formula drinker.  I finally gave up last 
    March (1995) and took him off the antibiotics and took his bottle away, 
    thus more solid foods less milk.  Guess what!  No more infections, not one!
    
    Personnally, I think he had an allergy problem with formula.  Is it
    just me or does anyone else out there think that Pedi's just are
    prescription happy with antibiotics?  I was real nervous about TJ
    developing an immunity to all these antibiotics.  His whole system was
    messed up, rashes, diarahea, constantly cracky...  Possibly over 
    medicated and his body was just building a defense mechanism.
    
    FWIW - my experience with too much antibiotics!
    
    Joyce

    I think there are more people claiming alergies to things when in
    reality they probably have sensitivities.  I think Aaron's peditricians
    thought that I was trying to tell them he was alergic to the dairy and
    they didn't agree with that.  What I was trying to convey to them was I
    think Aaron is sensitive to some milk products, that while he doesn't
    have a true alergic reaction (one that requires medical attention) he
    is sensitive.
    
    I really wish we had tried taking him off of his evening bottle before
    last month, I think he would have stayed healthier if we had.  Aaron
    still gets 3 bottles through the day.  We are about to begin weaning
    him off of those.
    
    sandy            

Samantha had cronic ear infections and a runny nose for over a year, from when 
she was about 3 to 4.  After just about living on antibiotics and getting her 
scheduled for tubes, they suggested taking her off diary products for 1 week.  
That cleared everything up!

We've been using Lactase tablets to allow her to eat cheese and other things, 
but have been giving her lactaid free milk (not the soyboil oil stuff).  

Try removing all dairly products for 1 week and see what happens.

Dave

    From reading the last reply I get the impression lactose tablets and 
    lactose free milk supress or eliminate the excess mucus production some 
    get from lactose products? (i.e. "Samantha had chronic ear infections
    and a runny nose for over a year") I've never paid much attention to 
    lactose free since I thought it helped those whose digestive and intestinal
    tracts couldn't tolerate lactose. My mother is one of these types and has 
    drunk lactose free milk for years and this is why I came to my
    conclusion.
    
    I can't drink milk or ice cream because of the tremendous mucus it 
    produces which causes sinus, headache, coughing and choking problems. 
    I can eat limited amts of cheese and unlimited lowfat yogurt.   My son has 
    been on maintenance antibiotic the last two winters because of chronic
    ear infections and also gets frequent colds.  I have asked his pediatrician
    if he thinks milk and milk products are contributors. He doesn't believe 
    they are.  I, however, really suspect the milk (fat?) does contribute.  
    Now that my son is almost 3, I've greatly reduced his milk intake and
    he gets his calcium from other sources. He hasn't had a cold or runny nose 
    for some time and hasn't had ear infections but he'll be on the antibiotic 
    until end of April so I won't know for sure if he is healthy because of
    the antibiotic.
    
    So if lactose free supresses the mucus I might try it.  Can someone
    clarify?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Kathy

Lactose free milk is specifically to eliminate lactose intolerance, where
the stomach does not secrete any/enough lactase, an enzyme used to break
down lactose.  Lactose is a sugar (ie a complex carbohydrate).  This is NOT
an allergic reaction.  Someone who is lactose intolerant, consuming lactose
will cause stomach aches, because the lactose is not digested properly.

The allergy to milk, which causes excess mucous production, is usually to
a protein in milk, and not lactose, so lactose free milk, or milk treated
with lactase, is not likely to have any impact on mucous production for most
people subject to milk allergy.


Stuart

>The allergy to milk, which causes excess mucous production, is usually to
>a protein in milk, and not lactose, so lactose free milk, or milk treated
>with lactase, is not likely to have any impact on mucous production for most
>people subject to milk allergy.

I can only speak from our experience, but if Samantha accidently drinks 
regular milk, she'll get a stuffed up nose within 12 hours and that has 
*always* preceeded her ear infections in the past.

Since using lactose free milk and lactaid tablets, she has not had any ear 
infections and has had very few runny noses and colds.

Whether it's a lactose or protien allergy, cutting out dairy products is a 
quick and easy test to see if it helps the situation.

Dave

    Just curious, what are the effects of having a child on
    antibiotics for 2-3 months at a time?  I'm not sure I would
    feel comfortable having my kids on antibiotics for such long
    periods, at what point do they put tubes in their ears?
    
    Not to open a can of worms, but when my youngest daughter was
    a baby she had constant bronchitis and was on the verge of
    pneumonia.  We tried the antibiotics- no luck, no change.  I
    heard about a pediatric chiropractor and went to him- he was
    GREAT! within 2 days she showed signs of clearing up.  We continued
    to go to him for about 1 month and she was fine.  We still go
    to a chiropractor 6 years later and are all fairly healthy!
    
    Just my thoughts. . . .
    
    Cindy

    
    	For my son, the effect was constant dirty diapers.  His
    	weight gain slowed, but never fully stopped.  On a normal
    	day, we changed about 4 dirty diapers.  When something affected
    	him, it could be 6-8.  He was fighting diaper rash much of
    	the time.
    
    	His pediatrician mentioned that there could be intestinal
    	complications from continued use of the antibiotic, but that
    	it was rare and Andrew's symptoms didn't seem to suggest it.
    
    	After he came off antibiotic, he sprouted up and gained a healthy
    	amount of weight, bouncing him back into the height/weight
    	percentile that he'd been in prior to the infections.  He's
    	30 pounds now at 2 years old, and we only get an average of
    	2 dirty diapers a day ;-)
    
    	Karen
    

    I had to do maintenance anti-b's with Joe when he was between 5 & 6. 
    He had 5 ear infections from September to January, and the doctor said,
    "let's stop!!".  We did maintenance anti-b's for one month, and he
    hasn't had an ear infection since.  Bronchitis, yes, ears, no!
    
    The only discernible side effect I've found is that (a) Joe is less
    responsive to Amoxicillin now, and (b) he drove me nuts after 5 days,
    and didn't want to take the stuff anymore
    
    M.
    

    I think that there's potential damage to teeth/bones as a result of
    prolonged use of antibiotics - but it may only be particular ones.  I
    remember a friend of mine had these terrible yellow patches on her
    otherwise very white teeth - the Dr said it was from a lot of antib.
    when she was a baby.
    
    Of course weighed against the potential problems if they're NOT on
    them, and have ear infections (and potential hearing loss) all the time
    - what's a few patches?!?
    
    It's always choosing the lesser of two evils, eh?

    
    My 15 month old has been on a maintenance dose of gaxtrin(sp)
    since the fall. She hasn't had any ear infections all winter
    and no side effects that I've noticed. I wasn't thrilled with
    the idea of putting her on it but I trust her pedi and feel it
    was the right decision. She'll be coming off it at the end of the
    month, hopefully she's outgrown her tendancy for the infections.
    
    One thing I've found interesting is the connection between dairy
    and the infections. I'm going to keep an eye on it because of what
    I've read in here. I'm trying to figure out if it might be contributing
    to my son's almost constant stuffy nose. It's gotten much better
    this past week but it was pretty bad for the last month. I guess they
    don't like to test them for allergies this young because it's painful.
    Plus we have a dog, a cat, a bird and a wood stove. So I think the
    easiest thing to start with might be the milk. :)
    
                              Barbara
    

    We took Aaron to the doctor again this weekend.  He was a little
    fussier than usual on Friday, by the evening he was running a low temp
    so we gave him Motrin before he went to bed.  He slept through the
    night, but had a bit of a temperature on Saturday and was poking his
    ears.  Since it was the 10th day of his antibiotic I decided it would
    be best to have the ears checked again so we took him in.  I'm glad I
    did.  While the ears don't have pus they are red and inflamed which
    means the antibiotic got most of the infection but left enough for the
    infection to try to come back.  So he'll be on another antibiotic for
    10 days.  I'm hoping this will be the last time.
    
    We'll make sure he doesn't get any milk for at least the next few
    months (though he does eat cheese and yogurt without any noticable side
    effects).  Boy will I be glad when winter is finally over.  We're all
    tired of it!
    
    sandy

    Re: .17
    
    Sandy,
    
    Just curious did the doc suggest no milk?
    
    I haven't taken Sarah off milk.  I guess I have this idea implanted in
    my head that children need milk.  Children and milk go together.  I
    don't know, I really haven't researched the milk thing enough.  Sarah
    finished her 10 days of amoxicillan(sp?) and is fine now.  Hopefully,
    she will stay that way for a while!
    
    Marianne
               

    No, they do support me keeping him on formula until mid summer or so. 
    I'm going to play it by ear.  I'm hoping to get Aaron interested in
    drinking orange juice that's calcium fortified (right now he hates
    juice whether it's mostly water, 1/2 water-1/2juice, mostly juice,
    whatever).  Aaron loves brocolli, cauliflower, yogurt, cheese, they're
    all good sources of calcium, yogurt, cheese and meats are good sources
    of protein (he hates dried beans, it doesn't matter how they're cooked,
    he seems to hate the texture).
    
    Right now we need to get rid of the ear infections more than he needs 
    milk!                                              
    
    sandy

    
    A sidetrack - milk consumption is culture dependent,
    I never drank milk as a kid, neither did my friends.
    Of course I grew up in Asia, when diary products were
    foreign ideas. So, I think, kids can be raised healthly
    without milk. Of course, in this culture which is 
    predominantly European-based, milk seems to be part of
    everyday life.
    
    
    Eva  

    Eva,
    
    Not with all of us, but I do come from a cross-cultural family.  
    
    After my experience with Lolita, I don't worry about milk for kids,
    except to get nervous when my other kids want to dring it.
    
    meg

    Maybe the amoxicillin isn't strong enough for basenoter's baby, and
    he should be on something that's more effective?  My pediatrician
    doesn't even bother to prescribe amoxicillin for my daughter, as it
    doesn't work...she may as well not take anything for all the good it
    does.

    Re: .22
    
    The amoxicillin does work to rid the ear infection for Sarah.  The
    problem is that she gets another cold and bingo, she's got another
    ear infection. It's not one continuous ear infection, it's many
    different ones in either or both ears.  Since she was on amoxicillin
    for prevention for 2 months straight she didn't get an ear infection,
    but as soon as she finished the meds she got a cold and you know what
    else - another ear infection. I know the amoxicillin won't keep her
    from getting the cold - that was just coincidental.  I just wish I knew
    how to keep her from getting these infections without the preventative
    meds or even better how to prevent these colds that always seem to
    bring on the ear infections.  OR are these really colds?  Which brings
    me back to allergies and what the possible allergens could be.
    
    My husband is the one who is home with her in the day and therefore
    takes her to the doctor, so all the feedback is second hand which is
    extremely frustrating for me.  Anyway I need to take my own advise and
    get up really early in the a.m. and call the doc during his call in
    hour.
    
    Marianne

    
    
    	Has anyone mentioned smoking yet? Second Hand somke is a #1 cause of
    ear infections in children. Does anyone smoke in your household?
    
    
    			Kt. 8)

    Re: .24
    
    My husband smokes, but only outside.  In fact it's been years since
    I've seen him with a cigarette in his mouth.  We don't allow smoking in
    our home at all.  Good question though, I'm sure you're right.  I know
    a couple who both smoke and the grandmother who does daycare for their
    kids smokes too, and consequently their son is always sick with asthma
    or sinus.
    
    Marianne

    re: .18, etc.
    
    Marianne - my knowledge of allergies and milk intolerance tells me that
    the Amoxicillin probably wouldn't keep Sarah "clean" for long if milk
    were the issue.  I would suggest allergy testing, however, and (even
    though non-smoking household) consider getting air cleaners with HEPA
    filters.  These do a really good job a clearing the mites and molds out
    of the air.  Mites, molds, milk and wheat are the top four allergens
    today, instead of good old pollen, which was considered the most common
    allergen for eons.
    
    I stronly believe that, with all the chemicals and air pollution, etc.,
    our children are exposed to in this day and age, allergies are the
    number one mis-diagnosis today.  Too many docs just want to cure the
    symptom, not find the cause, so the throw more/different antibiotics at
    a problem that could often be cured completely by a quick blood test
    and on-going use of antihistamines.
    
    Just my 2 cents.
    
    M.
    

>    a problem that could often be cured completely by a quick blood test
>    and on-going use of antihistamines.

Antihistmines only serve to take the treatment of symptoms back one step and
are still not really the answer.  The body generates histmines for a purpose
and there are lots of things we meet that cause histamine generation.  An
allergy is the over-production of histamines in the presence of allergens
that an individual is sensitive too.

So, taking antihistamines is blocking not only the over generation in the
presence of allergens, but the normal production of histamines ... I wonder
what effect this has ?

Now, most anti-histamines cause drowsiness and are cns depressants ...
increasing reaction and response times etc.  These are not simple cause
and simple effect drugs ...  While they are useful, I'm not sure I would
want to take them long term for these reasons, and I'm not sure I'd want
a child to have to take them long term.  To an extent, using antihistamines
as we do now is liking hitting a carpet tack with a sledge hammer.

Don't get me wrong, antihistamines are great ... but I have some serious
reservations about them, as I do antibiotics!  The FDA has chosen to
keep many antihistamines on the prescription only list ... even though many 
have fewer side effects than the OTC ones like Benadryl and Chlortrimeton (and
their generic equivalents).  Why ?

Stuart

    
    No one ever really told me to not give him milk, until *I* put two and
    two together, and suggested it many times over to different doctors. 
    One doctor said "Kids don't need anywhere NEAR as much milk as we used
    to think!!  Just give him something else with calcium, and leave out
    the milk, if you think it's a problem".  
    
    the other more convincing part of it all, is that he would get ear
    infections with absolutely *NO* other signs of any other illness.  If
    it was only when he got a cold, I'd have just blamed the cold, and left
    it at that.
    

    for me it was a friend taking a course in nutrition who pointed out
    that milk was a heavy=duty allergen and suspected in many cases of
    chronic ear/sinusitis things.  I don't know why I didn't pick up on it
    the second time the ped told me to take Lolita off milk when she had an
    ear infection until it was cleared up, and just kept her off at that
    point, instead of going through more infections every couple of weeks
    or so.  (one advantage to being medically indigent at that time.  No
    one suggested ear tubes to me, I would have jumped at the chance to
    clear her up)  To this day, I wonder that the Dr's at the clinic didn't
    suggest no milk for a month or two on a trial basis to see if this was
    the problem.  FWIW my great-nephew has the same problem with milk
    Lolita did, and they had the date set for the surgery before they tried
    no dairy for two weeks.  The day of the pre-surgical exam, his ears
    were clear for the first time in 6 months.  YMMV, but I don't think two
    weeks without milk is going to seriously impact a child's growth, or
    general health, except if an allergy to milk is an issue, the health
    may improve.  
    
    meg

    Sarah has yet another cold/allergy.  She hasn't been complaining about
    her ears ....yet.  We do live in a basement apartment and it does get
    mildew after it rains and it has been rainy the last few days and all
    the snow has been melting. I've long suspected this to be a
    contributing factor, but at this time I really can't move for financial
    reasons.  Maybe an air filter would work or a dehumidifier.  We haven't
    started her on preventative antibiotics, because I just don't like her
    on medicine all the time, however if her ears become infected I'll have
    to.
    
    Meg, my neice had the same thing happen as your nephew.  Her ears
    became so infected that the doc wanted to do surgery.  My sister as a last
    ditch effort took her off dairy, I guess she had done a lot of reading
    and found that info somewhere.  My neice's ears became remarkably better
    and she no longer needed the surgery.  Now she can eat dairy and drink
    milk with no problem, since she's a little older now.
    
    Any advise on air filters/dehumidifiers?
    
    Also a somewhat irrelevant question, it's hard for me to keep up with
    current notes because I don't know the command for reading new notes. 
    Usually I just read the latest entered topic or browse and happen to
    look through topics I may have started or entered replys to.  It makes
    it hard to keep up with currently entered notes. I have tried /next/unseen
    and dir/unseen and other combos but it just comes up with no unseen
    or error messages.  For this topic I just remember it's #1115.
    
    Thanks,
    Marianne
                                                                       

    Re: .26
    
    M.,
    
    Where does one get HEPA filters? Is this a filter you put inside a
    machine or is it the machine itself?
    
    Marianne

    It is the filter itself.  I have HEPA filters for my forced air furnace
    since we live dusty (14+ years of ongoing remodeling projects, three
    cats, the fuzzy dog and a batch of long haired people.)  They cost a
    bit more than the others, but make a real difference.  
    
    meg

regarding the problem with using Next Unseen:

sometimes, the Notes "unseen map" gets corrupted.
To fix it, you need to force Notes to reset its
unseen map.  Choose "Set Seen..." from the Conference
menu and issue a likely date for "Before".  This
should fix the problem for you.

    I think HEPA refers to the type of filter in the air cleaner.  I am
    thinking of getting one for our house, since it is almost allergy
    season, and I really don't want to suffer yet again!  
    
    Marianne, I think I'd start with the dehumidifier to dry out the air
    first.  If there are still problems, then I'd go with the air cleaner
    with the HEPA filter.  I don't know how big a dehumidifier you'll need;
    we have one in our basement that holds about 12 pints of water and cost
    us about $150 -- I think.  The air cleaner with the HEPA filter costs
    about $100.  Expensive, but it could make all the difference.
    
    You can also try limiting dairy products if you wish.  When my kids
    have colds, they don't want milk products (except ice cream :-)), and
    I don't push it.  
    
    Lots of good luck...it's so stressful when your little ones are sick
    and
    you feel  like you can't do anything for them!!
    
    Kate