Conference moira::parenting

    Hi Karen,
    
    I have only my thoughts on this and no experience but I would think I
    would be more helpful being at home with my children after school and
    not during the summer.  
    
    My mother was always home when we got home from school.  It provided me
    options for after school activities like gymnastics that I would not of
    been able to get to three times a week if she was not available to
    drive me.
    
    I also enjoyed having my mother around to help with homework and just
    day to day problems.  It was a relief to have her around to talk over
    things about.  I imagine that if she got home at 5:00 and had to make
    dinner, clean, etc. that she would not have had the time that she had
    for me and my siblings.
    
    Keep in mind that when your children get older, they will no doubt want
    to spend time with their friends.  Sure it will be nice to have Mom as
    a driver, but I remember wanting to go to the mall and "get rid of Mom"
    so we would walk around and think we were mature.
    
    Just my thoughts...
    
    cj

    
    Karen,
    
    	A couple of things, don't worry about not getting
    32 hours for the next 15 years, if you really want it, 
    *you* can make it happen, it may take some pushing
    and some hackling. As far as contract work is concerned,
    having been a contractor for 3 years now, I realize
    that it is pretty hard to schedule the contract per
    my timing. When people hire contractors, they are in
    a crunch, they usually want that something done 2 years 
    ago and they want someone in there yesterday. Unless
    you have a very special skill set that is in high
    demand and low supply, it is very difficult to delay
    a start date, which translates to having fewer options
    to choose from. Also, unless you don't work on projects
    that tend to drag forever, it is not good business sense 
    to leave a project before completion due to summer vacation, 
    etc. As a contractor, I do have more freedom to state upfront 
    how many hours per week I want to work and I certainly
    can take as many vacation days as I see fit. I recommend
    you take into consideration the type of work you do, the
    ease of obtaining a contract, the means of staying current
    (marketable) in the field. If your goal is to not have 
    latch-key children, then I'd think 32 hours permanent 
    employment makes more sense. If you goal is to be independent,
    make a bunch of money, sight see in the industry, contracting
    is definitely the way to go. So far, in 3 years, my shortest
    commute is 30 minutes, and longest 1:15 minutes, one way;
    average 40 work hours a week and sometimes 50 hours a week;
    mos of the projects (engineering) are 1+ year long; I could not 
    have done that when my kid was little. There were certainly
    contracts closer to home, but those contracts would not have
    helped my marketability nor my pocketbook! Your mileage may vary.
    
    	In between contracts, I do take a couple of weeks off to
    do house stuff alone; but me personally, I could go nuts spending
    the entire summer at home hanging out with my daughter and my
    daughter would feel the same way, I am pretty sure!! Your
    mieage may vary!
    
    
    Eva 

    Be sure you know what you're getting into, especially from a tax and
    health insurance perspective, before you decide to definitely go the
    contract route.  
    
    I think I would like my mom home after school.  You don't say how old
    your kid(s) is(are), but I know that my nearly-8 LOVES it when I can
    either pick him up at school or can pick him up at day care at, say
    3:30 or 4.  
    
    On the other hand, if you work year-round,you don't have the double
    whammy of getting the kids settled in school (which can be trying) AND
    having to cope with your going back to work, to say nothing of YOUR
    readjustment to the world of work.  Moreover, what are you going to do
    during the three months or so you aren't earning any money?  
    
    My $.02,
    Kate

    
    One more thing, in the next 15 years, the managers (promoted
    from younger folks from 2 income fmailies, like you and me) will 
    become more and more aware and sympathic of the family issues 
    employees have to face, elderly care, children care, etc! 
    
    
    Eva

    
    I know that my kids would *MUCH* rather see a little more of me, each
    day, than ALL of me, for any extended amount of time.
    
    Meaning, they'd rather that I worked shorter days, and spent more time
    after school/evenings, then to not see me at all, and then kid
    ourselves that we'd get along great if we were suddenly "tossed" in
    each other's face all summer, every day.
    
    Yes, work is a job, and a way to make money - but it's also a way for
    each of you to have your own time AWAY from each other.  I'd go bananas
    if I was home with all three kids all day long for more than several
    days in a row.  ESPECIALLY if I knew it were for several months! (-:
    
    Of course, my kids NEVER stop talking (all three at once!) so maybe
    that has something to do with it ....
    
    Marc Nozell's wife (remember Wendy Thomas?) quit DEC to contract - I
    think that it's working well for her.  I'm sure if you sent Marc mail,
    (or if you poke around in here) you'd be able to get in touch with
    Wendy.
    
    One other point - keep in mind that if you go contracting, every fall
    will leave you looking for a full-time daycare again for your kids. 
    And working full time leaves you little time to deal with those sorts
    of things.
    
    Good Luck!

    My neighbor and I had your two options at the same time, so we had that
    comparison to make.  Dianne is on a school schedule, I was working 32
    hours a week.  All through the school year she envied me, all summer I
    envied her!  
    
    Having worked 32 hours/week for 9 years, I would advise you not to base
    your decisions on what you can be guaranteed to get for hours in years
    to come - do what's right for this year and the rest will follow.  If
    you go the part-time route, you will have a proven record of delivering
    the work in those hours.  I never saw this matter in a job I wanted,
    although I was concerned (and sometimes convinced) that it would.
    
    I split my 32 hours up this way: I worked short days until my youngest
    was about 1 (and oldest 3), then took Fridays off after that.  On
    Friday I was an 'at-home mom', hanging out with them, later
    volunteering at their schools, etc.  When the youngest went to first
    grade, I went back to full time, but now I'm based at home as a
    Telecommuter.
    
    Being a contractor sounds good too, and I'm looking forward to hearing
    from others here about that. 
    
    

    I'm a fulltime contractor with 2 young children (5 and 2).  This is
    very difficult.  Financially, consider not being paid for holiday's,
    vacation, sick (you or your kids) and you still are required to pay
    daycare - full price.  Flexibilty, it's great when I have a few errands 
    to run or committments to meet with schools etc.; I can take a few extra 
    hours off and everything is okay.  
    
    I used to have a permanent job with a company when my 2nd child was an
    infant.. EXTREMELY difficult.  The company I was with was not sensitive
    to working mothers; unlike DEC.  Consider what you have @ DEC before 
    leaving, in my opinion, DEC is VERY flexible for working mothers.
    
    Is your manager willing to have you work only 32 hours a week?  Could 
    you work possibly one or two long days (10 hours) and the other shorter
    days?
      
    I used to be a DEC employee before having children and left when my 
    first was born.  I stayed home for 2 years and re-entering the workforce 
    was very difficult.  When I finally did have the opportunity to
    re-enter, I took about 5 steps backwards!   Potential
    employers think your trying to get a job just for benefits to leave on
    maternity leave again!  Or they think that you'll call in sick every
    other day!
    
    I've looked into part-time (aprox. 32 hours a week); I've found the
    daycare expense is hardly worth working only 32 hours.  
    
    
    One option have have considered:  Staying home full-time and watching
    2-3 kids as a daycare provider - save the $200./wk which I spend on
    daycare and also make a litte money and possibly go to night school.  - 
    I'm still pondering over this one: alot to consider, inconsistancy of 
    income, never getting a break from being with kids, re-entry into the 
    workforce very difficult.
    
    I think a situation which would be ideal for me, but I can't afford at
    this time:  Working full time with a company which is sensitive to
    working mothers and hire a *live-out* nanny.  Have the nanny's
    responsiblities to include light housekeeping and meal prep. so when I
    come home.  We could have a decent dinner then quality time with the
    kids.
    
    Just thought I would share my experiences/thoughts.  Something for you
    to think about.
    
    Good luck!
    
    Joyce
    
    
    
    
    

    Also,
    
    One more thing to consider...  Daycare, very often has a wait list you
    might not be able to stop then restart as easy as it sounds.
    
    Joyce

>    Now, if I were a school aged kid, I think I'd prefer to go
>    to daycare after school for 8 months but have my mom at home
>    all summer as opposed to having my mom home after school but
>    going to daycare 4 days per week in the summer. 

>   So... if you were a kid, which would you prefer?
    

  I have a school aged son.  After school care did not work out at all.
He likes having me there when he comes home from school.  I have seen
a big difference in attitude.  When he gets off the bus at home I hear
all about school.  When I picked him up at daycare he was usually tired,
hungry and whiny.  

  He knows that he will still have to go somewhere this summer.  So far
we plan on sending him to camp and he is excited about it.  The down side
is that camp is quite expensive and doesn't cover the whole summer.

  Another thing to factor in - what's the norm in your town?  All of the
kids on our street come home after school.  There are playmates around.
By not coming home after school he felt left out.

Elizabeth

    
    
    Also, my husband and I stagger our hours, fortunately we both have
    flex hours, thus we can put in 40+ hour weeks. Our daughter was not
    in daycare all day when she was little, she was in nursery school 
    from from 9:15 to around 4:35. Now, my husband sees her off to
    school at 8:00 (she walks) and I pick her up from afterschool care
    (town program) anywhere from 3:45 (I bring her to her lessons and 
    activities) to 5:30.  The town afterschool care program is very good,
    they have computer lessons, swimming lessons (they bus the kids to the
    Y), ceramic lessons, cooking lessons, art projects, ran by teachers and
    high school seniors, much more than just babysitting. She goes to camp 
    during the summer. I have neighbors who use college students (with 
    their own transportation) to care for the kids after schools and during 
    the summer, very happy with their arrangement. I have neighbors who 
    use the Y afterschool care program and are happy with it. I also have
    a neoghtbor who works for the school system (best of both worlds) and
    is always available afterschool. I also have a neighbor who is in
    sales and schedules all her paperwork to be done at home after 3 pm so 
    she can be home for the bus. 
    
    Just to offer different possibilities...
    
    
    Eva

    I've been part time for 12 year now, first 20 hours and now 30.  My
    kids are 12 and 8.  They enjoy having me home after school [most days
    :>)]; I get home just after the school bus gets there.  I can't 
    always make every event at school, and I can't be a classroom
    volunteer, but I do my best to be involved.
    
    As for summers, as the kids get older they're going to get bored with
    just hanging around with mom, unless a lot of their friends are around
    as well.  My 2 go to day camp and they seem to enjoy it, we have
    weekends and evenings to spend as a family, and it seems to be working
    ok.  Granted, camp doesn't cover the whole summer, there are still 2 weeks
    at the end of the summer and, depending on snow days, up to a week
    after school lets out in June, but it sort of forces YOU to take a
    break as well.  Dependant care can be used to off-set these costs -- as
    long as it's day camp, overnight camp isn't covered.
    
    sandy

    
    Hi everyone,
    
    Thanks for the input!  Keep it coming.  Despite what everyone is
    saying, I might just do the contract thing because school is not
    an issue for another 3 years anyhow and I can always go back
    to permanent employment if contracting does not work out.
    
    Some more about my situation...
    
    1.  My husband has health/dental benefits (I currently opt out) so
        this would work out great for me.
    
    2.  I would probably pay my daycare year round (however, she accepts
        half pay for the summer to hold a spot).  It would be worth it
        to me to keep her.
    
    3.  If I contract, I plan to make the same ANNUAL salary that I
        make now.  Careful savings will make it work out for the months
        that I don't work.  I'm pretty good at budgeting.
    
    4.  I'm really looking forward to having this summer off with the
        new baby.  If, by August, I hate it, I'll just stay at DEC. 
    
    5.  My manager is not too flexible about the 32 hours.  No 10 hour
        days.  He wants me here 4 days, period.... in fact, he wants me
        to read mail from home on my day off!
    
    6.  I hate my job!  If I were to stay at DEC, I'd need to find
        another job within the company and the chances of 32 hours
        with another manager are slim without a proven track record.
    
    7.  I've been at DEC 10 years and believe that I'm drastically
        underpaid having been in the wrong place at the wrong time
        quite a bit over the past 5 years.  Even though I'd be giving
        up 4 weeks of paid vacation per year, if I return to DEC 
        in the future and only get 2 weeks, well, the salary increase
        would make it possible for me to afford unpaid vacation.
    
    Can you tell I really want to do this?  I'm just trying to get
    people to talk me into it.
    
    I realize that I need to consider that my commute might be 
    too long or that the hours might be more than 40 hours.  If it
    seems like I will not be able to find a 40 hour contract with
    a reasonable commute, I won't do contracting.  
    
    As far as timing it goes, well, ideally I'd prefer the summers off
    but if it turns out to be spring or fall I could handle it.  If I
    took a 6 month contract in September and it was extended to 9 months,
    fine.  If extended to a year, no thanks.  I'd make that clear up
    front to my employer.  
    
    What would be ideal would be a part time contract.  They exist,
    but are very few and far between.
    
    I'm pretty certain I'll do contracting.  I'd like to hear more
    from noters that are mothers of young children.  
    
    Thanks everyone!
    
    Karen
    

    As a contractor for both Digital and other firms for nearly five years,
    and the mother of two young children, I believe that contracting offers
    more benefits for parents and their children than full-time employment
    *if*
    
    1. The contractor and her/his family don't need benefits like
    company-paid health/disability insurance, vacation pay, etc.
    
    2. The contractor makes enough money per hour to make the contracting
    worthwhile.
    
    3. Conracting work can be done around children and family time.
    
    4. Affordable daycare can be arranged and stopped/started easily.
    
    Contracting has worked out very well for me because I've been able to
    keep working almost constantly for Digital alone. I make enough money
    per hour so that I need only work an average of 25 to 30 hours per week
    to satisfy our financial needs. I've been able to keep myself fresh
    with occasional contracts from other companies. We don't need the
    benefits because we get them through my husband's full-time job. I can
    usually get my work done during business hours with only a few nights
    and weekend days per month.
    
    On the down side, it can be difficult to get contracts if you aren't
    good at selling yourself or if you don't like to do so. The
    administrative and tax issues can be a pain, and I've found it
    difficult to adjust day care as my work situation changes (for example,
    day camp registration for the summer happens in January, and
    re-registration of after-school care is in March for the following
    September).
    
    One final note -- although I don't love the Digital work that I'm doing
    right now, I'm sticking with it because contracting and the benefits of
    this situation make it the best one for my family. I also look at the
    last few years and the ones until my kids are older as my "job" years,
    versus "career" years. Not to sound like a martyr, but I feel I owe it
    to my kids to be somewhat available to them in their formative years.
    Contracting lets me do that while keeping myself in the job market and
    making a decent living. Your mileage may vary.
    
    Good luck!
    
    Nancy-

    
    Hi Karen,
    
    	*Go for it*. Especially if you are not happy where you are.
    I'll never go back to work for a company, unless it is mine or
    a friend's, now having experienced the freedom - no more politics,
    no more "danggling-carrots" like "if you just do this, I'll give 
    that", no more "you can't go on vacation now". I love it.
    
    
    Good luck,
    Eva 

    The previous note brings up an interesting issue.  Are there may people
    that are able to get their manager's approval to work a four day week?
    Here at HLO, there are several women that I work with that work a four
    day week.  How prevelant is it in other parts of the company?
    
    I was originally going to tell you that there are many managers that
    will accomodate your desire to work a four day week, however that may
    not be the case at other DEC locations.
    
    The other issue you bring up, about being underpaid and hating your job
    makes me wonder if that isn't a motivating factor in you wanting to
    leave Digital.  I'm not going to try to convince you either way, but I
    do know of many managers that are sympathetic to family issues and care
    more about getting the work done rather than looking at the clock.
    Maybe you should look around within the company and see if anyone might
    be willing to accomodate a modified schedule.
    
    Of course another thing to consider is the type of job you have and
    whether it would, because of your job tasks, make more sense to be a
    contractor.  In my situation, I couldn't rely on the unpredictability
    that would come with starting out as a consultant against the financial
    security that I get from my job.
    
     Good luck with whatever decision you choose!
    
     Nancy
      

    
    Well, see if you can get relocated to ZKO or MKO.  Both plants are
    trying very hard to get people to be able to work from home, because
    MKO is closing, and they're trying to cram most of the people in ZKO.
    If there are less people in ZKO (more working from home), they can fit
    more MKO employees.  
    
    THAT'S if you want to stay at DEC.  There's a fair number of people
    (10%?) who work 24 or 32 hour weeks in ZK).
    
    -Patty

    
    I also know several people that work four (4) days a week because they
    want to spend time with their children.
    
    I was offered this when I returned to work from my maternity leave but
    chose to buy a house instead.  It will be another 30 years until I have
    the opportunity again.  Only joking, I hope!
    
    cj

I am a part-time contractor based in the UK.  I have 2 pre-school children
(age 1 & 3), and work a 15 hour week (2 full days).  So far I have had
2 part-time contracts, each lasting around a year, both within DEC, and
I found both by contacting previous managers for whom I had worked as a
full-time contractor.

My kids are in a day nursery, which is not flexible about starting and
stopping as it is very over-subscribed.  Fortunately I have not yet been
out of work for long enough to consider reducing hours at day care.

IMO you need to consider how likely you are to find contracts against how
long you could survive without a contract.  It must help a lot if you
have daycare that can be started/stopped, but again you need to consider
the disruption to the children if you do that!

Good luck in making your decision.

Carol Gilroy.

    I am also due to have my second child in June.  Unfortunately (or
    fortunately?) I am being TSFO'd next week.  My current plans are to
    take the next 5-6 months off, and then hopefully get into some kind
    of contracting position in the fall.  I am just starting to look into
    contracting opportunities and am curious about what type of work is
    available on a contract basis. I currently work in AMCS Dev & Learning,
    so I am thinking about possibly doing some instructional design work
    as a contractor.  Can any of you offer any information on other types
    of contract work that is available?
    
    Thanks for any info.
    
    

    
    I have been working 30 to 32 hours a week at DEC for 4.5 years now.
    When my 2 boys were infants I worked 3-10 hour days. When the oldest
    turned 3, I shifted to 4 days (32 hours) because the days were much too
    long for them. In those 4.5 years I have been in 2 different groups,
    one in Littleton and the other in ZKO. It has worked out very well for
    me. It's nice to have those Friday's off.
    
    The managers that I have had here have been really supportive. I
    consider this a major benefit.
    

    
    After my daughter was born 3/94 I came back to Digital after an
    extended leave with the schedule of 3 days in 2 at home. It was
    wonderful for my daughter and I, but it killed any career plan I might
    of had.  The schedule slowly changed to 4/1 and now I've been told
    that there really is no flexibility (due to groups merging and
    downsizing)  it will have to be 5 days in the office in order to take 
    on the increased work.
    
    So - I QUIT!  Digital was getting the better deal with me
    working at home; happy employee, productive, they actually got more
    than 40 hours.
    
    I've just found that Digital is not family oriented.  It really has no
    formal policy or programs in place.
    
    I've taken a part-time position working at home with a company who 
    has a very documented policy of employees with families. I don't have
    to worry if my manager changes the policy will change.  My job contract was
    written with the specification of hours/home office etc. for the time 
    that I am an employee in the position for which I was hired.
    
    I am in awe of those who can pull it together and work on their career,
    keep the family together, etc.  I tried. I failed.
    
    As my MIL & my Mom said -
    
    "your dammned if you do work - your dammned if you don't"
    
    So, I'm going to give the part-time from home gig a chance and see if I
    can get my life a bit more organized, keep a sense of self, spend time
    with my daughter and maybe cook a dinner or two for for my husband :')
    and not go broke.
    
    Any tips for this tranistion would be greatly appreciated.  Especially
    money saving tips!!! 
    
    As I said in the "goodbye note" Thank you, I will really miss this
    file.
    
    Best,
    Kim