Conference moira::parenting

    Hi Carol,
    
    We moved to Shrewsbury because it was the most affordable town for us 
    where the schools had a good reputation.  
    
    My son is in first grade there now, and I'm relatively pleased.  We'll 
    probably never be able to afford a move to a town with the highest rated 
    school system, nor will we be able to afford private school.  After 
    worrying a lot about whether we made the right choice, I decided to stop 
    worrying so much [not easy for me ;-) ] and just stay aware and get
    more involved.  
    
    I changed my work hours so that I could be home when my son gets home
    from school.  We spend that quiet time working on homework and other 
    projects that I hope adds to what he is learning in school.  
    
    I, too, was appalled that the reading incentive program asked for only 6 
    to 8 books be read each month (we do at least that many each week). 
    But I willed myself to stop worrying and be glad that our children are
    lucky enough to have the extra educational support we give them at home.
    
    I've vowed to get more involved in what's happening in ours schools, to
    continue to enhance our children's education at home, and to make sure
    that our children get the teachers that will help them make the most of
    themselves.  I'm hopeful that by doing that, our children will receive
    the education they need to succeed. 
    
    I guess what I'm saying is that if you're aware enough about some of
    the downfalls of your school system, you're going to be one of those
    parents who does whatever they need to at home to enhance your
    children's education.  And your children will probably do fine because of 
    your support and because you'll be showing them how much you value a
    good education.
    
    - Sheryl

    Hi Carol,
    
    I am a veteren of diverse public schooling, both for me and for my
    kids.  It sounds like you are running into some of the diversity issues
    that we have.  It can be difficult, and not just from the academic
    aspects, particularly when you have to explain to your child why she
    can't be at a friends house or go to an evening event with that parent
    driving (alcohol abuse and occaisional physical confrontations between
    parents and the oldest daughter.)
    
    From the academic perspective, use the same route for a gifted child
    that you would use for a child who is not academically gifted.  The
    district is tasked to see to it that a child gets enrichment if she is
    performing at a higher level than her class mates (been there)  Get to
    know the teachers your kids have, if they know they have an interested
    parent, they will often go the extra mile for your child in the
    classroom to keep her challenged.  Volunteer, volunteer, volunteer
    as much time as you have available and the energy for.  There are kids
    whose parents don't or can't read for pleasure.  They need to have
    someone who is willing to read who isn't a teacher to be exposed to the
    wonder of books.  (Teachers aren't quite human to kids they are
    'different')  Also if your child has an interest, foster it as much as
    you can outside of the school hours.  This is something I would
    recommend even if your child was in a tony private school with a low
    teacher/student ratio.  
    
    we watch one girl in the morning who is on the school breakfast
    program.  Her foster parent does the best he can, but he works long
    hours and leaves the house before the kids are out of bed.  He prefers
    that she get her breakfast with the other kids at the school, rather
    than having us feed her.  He isn't alone in this, a large portion of
    the neighborhood is working poor, there isn't always food enough even
    with stamps to make it through the month.  The breakfast and lunch
    programs are godsends for these kids.  
    
    FWIW my oldest went to what was reputed by people who don't know the
    neighborhood as the worst schools in the worst school district in town. 
    She was given lots of enrichment opportunities, did well, and wound up
    with a nice scholarship to a good private 2-year college when she
    graduated.  The physical plants at the schools may have been run down
    but the teaching staff consisted of some of the finest people I have
    known, with a few exceptions.  We generally got people who were new to
    teaching and still were idealistic enough to believe any child can
    learn or had been in the education business long enough to feel they
    could make a difference in the lives of some children.  I truly believe
    you and your kids get what you and they put into education.  
    
    meg

    6 to 8 books a month ...
    
    Doesn't that depend upon the books?  
    
    When I was 6, my Dad & I read Little Women together. [and then moved on
    to the Secret Garden, Carmen of the Golden Coast, the Complete Tales of
    Peter Rabbit, the Chronicles of Narnia, the Oz books and lots of others]
    
    It would be tough to get in 6 to 8 of these books in a month.
    
    I read some smaller books on my own -- Ellen Tebbets, Madeleine, Eloise
    and stuff like that. But we read the big ones together.
    
    I have this feeling that whatever school my son ends up attending, that
    I will be about as beloved as my parents were ... but I did end up with
    an excellent education.
    
      Annie

    
    re .0
    
    I think it does not matter which town one lives in, one can 
    find parents who are not interested in or concerned about their 
    children's education. We live North Andover and the schools
    are rated above average. We moved to this town because of its 
    centralized location and its relative affordability (compared
    to Andover). There are parents from this town who ask the 
    teachers to excuse their children from handing in homework 
    because of soccer practice. There are parents who expect the 
    afterschool care program (ran by the school dept) to make sure 
    their kids are doing their homework. My daughter has classmates
    who don't do their homework. So, in short, unconcerned parents
    come form all walks of life, IMO.
    
    From my experience, my daughter is in 5th grade, some teachers
    are more into enrichment and some teachers have to be prompted.
    I keep a close eye on my daughter's school work and subjects.
    Whenever I felt that my daughter was getting bored (epseically
    in the lower grades), I would write a note to the teacher asking
    for more challenging assignments and that usually worked. Last
    year, my daughter had a, IMO, wonderful teacher who kept the kids
    interested and challenged all year round, yet, some parents didn't
    like the teacher because they thoguht he was too tough and not
    "motherly" enough (give me a break!). So, I guess, it is a tough
    job being a teacher in the public school nowadays.
    
    We did twice thought of sending our daughter to private school,
    she was accepted to a day school in Andover. However, the cost
    was a deterrant for us, over $10K a year. We also checked the
    parochial schools nearby and discovered that they are not any 
    better than the oublic schools when it comes to grouping and
    test scores. So, we figure that for much less than $10K a year, 
    we can supplement our daughter's educaiton with extra-curricular
    lessons like gymnastics/dance/foreign language/guitar, computer
    programs, magazines like National Geographic World and 3 2 1 
    Contact, and educational vacations. But that means, we the parents,
    have to much more work. So far, my daughter has been getting the
    top grades and we don't think she will lower herself with the rest.
    We did have to fight the usual "But, so-and-so gets to do this
    or so-and-so doesn't have to do that..." for a little while before
    she was old enough to understand and appreciate the importance of
    a good education. I think the toguhest part in at the beginning
    when you want the children to develop a healthy study habit and
    attitude. And it gets easier as they get older.
    
                             
    Eva

>                     <<< Note 1095.0 by EXPERI::STOLICNY >>>
>               -< Public School Quality/What are Alternatives? >-

    This is such a tough issue.  Like many things in life, its possible
    to 'pay more' and buy a better product.  For 10K, one would certainly
    hope to get a better education than the 4-6K that your local town
    probably is spending.  And you may find a Catholic school near by
    that charges a lot less.  Personally, I think that public education
    is a pretty decent product for the money.  Others disagree.

    When I went to college I was thrown together with a lot of people
    who had gone to private school.  I'm sure they had better teachers
    than I had had and fewer 'less capable' people in their school.
    But I didn't think they had learned to schedule their time
    very well or to study 'just for learning'.  they'd been 'forced'
    to study by the schools for a long time and at college, when no
    one was forcing them any longer, many did not.  And did not do
    very well.  I'm sure like most 'opinions', anything based solely
    on your own experience is pretty invalid.  But certainly didn't
    end up wishing I'ld attended private school.

    One of the biggest issues raging in education right now is the
    conflict over local funding and local control.  Right now we have
    both, which meams there is a wide disparity from town to town.
    some people would like more equitable funding across the state
    (funded at the state level perhaps) rather than local, property
    based taxation.  but when that occurs, a lot of local control will
    be lost.

    I have a friend in Colorado who tells me that since they passed
    state funding of public schools, the rich towns have revolted because
    they are actually PREVENTED from spending as much as they like (and as
    much as they used to).

    If you want to work for better schools, the best thing you can do
    is to join your local school committee and help set standards and
    policy.  Help hire the next principal or superintendent.

    And as much as possible, make sure the teachers know that you
    value what they do and are very aware of what they do, both good
    and bad.  Express your displeasure directly and follow it up with
    a meeting with the principal if you dont get satisfaction.  Very
    few parents are willing to tell teachers what they think of them.
    And many teachers are allowed to continue for many years with
    no feedback that they are not doing a very good job.  Make sure your
    local principal knows your opinions of the teachers.

    I think its like letters to the editor or a radio station.  For
    every letter they get, they figure there are 100 more people out there
    who have the same opinion but are to shy to write in.  Make sure
    you are one of the parents who writes in.
    bob

    I want to thank the base noter not only for the note but also for your
    commitment to public education.
    
    My preschooler is facing the prospect of public school in a town with a
    bad reputation....like no accreditation for the high school. Yes, i
    live in Marlboro. 
    
    I went to public school in Boston and I hate the "white flight"
    phenomenon which creates these imbalances between towns. 
    
    If only there were more people like you who were willing to volunteer
    in the classroom on behalf of all the kids. Some parents are struggling
    to make it against language, culture, and finances. They are hpoing
    life will eb better for their kids and they can't help with homework
    or offer assistance to the schools. The way i look at it, the
    investment you are making in those kids is going to help insure that
    your child and mine grow up to live in a society which is safer adn
    more equitable.
    
    Move away and leave those kids to grow up to pose a threat physically
    and economicaly later ? 
    
    It's an enormous problem adn I don't know what I'm going to do as my
    daughter gets closer to school age but I hope to have the courage to be 
    part of the solution.
    
    Congrats to you. Your child is going to be fine.

    
    I'm glad someone started this note because I have the same concerns. 
    We live in a town where the high school has been on academic probation
    for awhile.  A few years back our town library closed for 6 months
    because the voters turned down an override to fund it.  So I'm very
    concerned about our public schools.
    
    My son started kindergarten in our town last fall.  I was prepared for 
    the worst but have been pleasantly surprised.  When I first heard that
    the class size was 24 I thought it could not work (daycare was often
    wild with a size of 15).  But he has a very good experienced teacher
    and I think she does a terrific job.  We have an active volunteer
    program (which I participate in) and a foster grandparent program.  So
    on most days there's the teacher, a parent and the grandparent.  This
    allows the teacher to work with a small group, the parent  does a
    project with a small group and the grandparent does 1-1 stuff.  The
    rest of the class is socializing.
    
    The best part of volunteering is that you get to see exactly where your
    child stands.  When he talks about classmates I know who they are.  And
    the kids are really cute as well.  Once they get to know you you really
    hear some stories - makes me wonder what my kids tell their teachers
    :^)
    
    As for the brighter kids falling to the level of mediocrity that's my
    biggest worry too.  But I'm encouraged that my son's teacher has
    noticed his gift for math and tried to challenge him. (while she's
    teaching counting, he taught himself to multiply/divide a long time
    ago)  I've also seen her trying to challenge the early readers in the
    class.
    
    My plan is to continue to be involved in the schools and keep a close
    eye on things.
    
    Elizabeth

    elizabeth,
    
    A lot of things seem to have changed for the better for childrn with
    talents from when I went to school.  Carrie isn't encouraged to "dumb
    down," she is encouraged to help someone who isn't getting the subjects
    that she excells in.  She is also offered classes outside of the
    regular class to challenge her particular skills.  Seems the funding
    for special ed is helping those with academic talents as well, even if
    the GT programs in CO get less than 2% of the moneys alotted to
    children who are at academic risk.  
    
    It may be that instructors have learned that keeping kids challeneged
    reduces some problems in the class, but what I have seen all of her
    teachers over the years do for her, is a far cry from what they did
    when I was in school and bored stiff, but not up to the standards for
    the program for super-kids.  
    
    meg
    
    

    
    RE: .3 
    
    I suppose that the 6-8 books a month might depend on the particular
    books.  In this case, my son is in kindergarten and the guidelines
    suggest having the child do some of the reading him/herself - so  
    there's a big mix of books on his sheet - things he reads (very,
    very simple books), short children's storybooks, and chapter books
    that are read over several days.  
    
    RE: all
    
    Thanks for all the feedback.  I think someone said that he'd do
    "fine" - that's kind of my problem, I want him to do "fabulous"!
    
    I'm surprised to have not heard from anyone who made the choice
    to go with a private elementary school education - surely there
    are some folks out there who do?   If so, was this something that
    you'd decided from the get-go (perhaps based on your own upbringing)
    or was it a decision based on what you'd observed in the public
    schools?   
    
    By the way, since I work full-time (and am not a patient person! and
    a variety of other reasons), homeschooling would not be an option.
    We do have the resources for private school if need be - although
    my plan had been to consider this at the middle or high school level
    only.    
    
    For those of you in Shrewsbury MA and in the Spring Street school
    area, is that elementary school suiting the needs of your child?
    I suspect that there might be some leveling of socioeconomic diversity
    when Jason moves on to the grade school from the Beal school, is that
    true?   
    
    Thanks again,
    cj/

Meg,

Our youngest (in Gr. 2 in COS D11) is way ahead of her peers, but the teachers
don't do much at all for her ... G&T doesn't start until Gr. 3  ... so they
are putting her off horribly when she needs the most challenge.  She's terribly
bored, and she's already taken the attitude that while the little they do for
her that is more challenging, she's not really interested already because she
gets little recognition for it.

Stuart

    Stuart,
    
    In your case (and I have been there) you can call the GT offices and
    ask that your child receive some enrichment.  They are tasked to do
    this.  You can also ask the teacher if they have anything like what
    they did for Carrie.  When Carrie was hanging out bored while other
    kids were struggling her teacher got an arrangement where she went to a
    younger class to help the teacher there with assisting kids in writing
    or what not.  They also pulled her out for "enrichment" classes in
    reading and arithmetic.  I don't know about your school, but I have had
    a lot of coopoeration from teachers all the way through with my oldest
    and middle.
    
    meg

    
    My daughters kindergarden teacher lets her (occationally) bring 
    in books for her to read to the class.  They don't have much time
    but my daughter loves the fact that she can read already.  While 
    she is bored accademically she is learning social skills.  
    
    What do you mean by GT offices?  I would love to find some 
    enrichment courses.  
    
    Teri

    
    I don't mean stray from the topic but we considered private school 
    only due to the lack of structure in the public school.  
    My daughter started in Lancaster Public schools last fall. 
    Whole language and inventive spelling are stressed a GREAT 
    deal in our school system.   While I don't think whole 
    language (as it pertains to reading and math) and inventive
    spelling are terribly wrong, I would like to see more
    emphasis on phonics.    It seems that private schools
    are the only way to go if you want a more "old" style learning
    environment.    
    
    We are going to stay and make it work for us by being involved.
    If we didn't read at home she never would be reading now.  
    We had to give her the foundation.  A good deal of the children
    in her class don't know all their letters and can't count past 20.
    
    Teri
    

    Not to rathole this but I don't have a problem with inventive spelling.
    Inventive spelling works in the same theory that children learn to
    write the same way they learn to talk, by trying their best to
    say/spell and word and also seeing it done correctly in things they
    read/hear the word from others.  I will admit that having come from the
    "old school" it gave me the heebie jeebies at first, but Carrie now
    spells beautifully, and LIKES to write stories with words she hasn't
    learned yet.  Lolita learned phonetically and "snirk words" and really
    didn't like to write anything with words she didn't know as she might
    spell them wrong and get dinged for it.  Carrie's stories were quite
    "inventive" when she was in the first grade and I had to puzzle out
    some of the words, until I learned to read them as they sounded.  Now
    that she is in the 4th, she asks if the word she is trying is correctly
    spelled, most times it is, and if it isn't it is close enough so she
    can get it out of a dictionary.  
    
    I realize different kids learn differently.  I like  a combination of
    "whole word" and Phonetics.  The two can compliment each other.  
    
    meg
    meg
    
    meg

    re:  Last Two --
    
    As the mother of a second grader now exposed to both methods (whole
    language with best guess spelling {aka inventive, creative, etc.} in
    K - 1, and phonics now in 2), I find I am liking the phonics approach a
    lot better.
    
    There is something hypocritical about telling a child to make their
    best guess Mon.-Thur., but spell these "x" words correctly on Friday 
    ("x" being the number of spelling words for the week).  It's a very
    mixed message, and it was the message Joe and all his friends received
    in Grades 1/2 (mixed age classes!) last year.  It doesn't work.  I
    corrected the spelling tests, and saw kids spell a word right on the
    test part, and get it wrong when they had to put it in a sentence two
    days later, or even on the *same* day!!
    
    Now Joe is learning phonically.  It's okay for him to ask how to spell
    something, he has a dictionary at his disposal, and his spelling is
    still quite inventive on many words, but at least I can *read* the
    invented spellings now -:)!
    
    Anyway, I believe that there are so many variables that can affect a
    school or district adversely or well - teacher quality, time in
    service, the pricipal, district policy, funding-funding-funding (very
    important!!!), the mix of kids, etc.  Joe's old school was certainly
    middle class and better, but a real melting pot of nationalities, with
    lots of kids who never spoke English until kindergarten - Vietnamese,
    Korean, Japanese, Hispanic, Middle Eastern, etc.  Working with all
    those language issues, plus the varied educational and intellectual
    levels of all these kids (28-30 per class) really has a big impact on
    how much good a teacher can do each student.
    
    Joe's new school still has him in a mixed age class (2&3 now), but they
    do whole language with *phonics*, more traditional math, and are
    extremely well funded.  The maximum class size is 24.  The school is
    equipped with a large number of Windows-capable systems to go along
    with the old Apple II's, etc., and each class is in the process of
    being set up on a multi-media system.  The teachers are (largely)
    younger, more ambitious/less jaded, and, while the kids are still
    somewhat melted into a pot (!), most of them appear to have been
    brought up bilingually or in English-speaking homes.
    
    The above is all part of why we decided to move out of Southern Calif.
    (Irvine, in beautiful, bankrupt Orange County) to Mesa AZ.
    
    M.
    

    
    I agree.  If it wasn't for whole language/inventive spelling  my 
    daughter would not be doing as well as she is.  It is soo funny
    to read the things she written.   School really made things "click".
    Plus she has a real desire to spell things correctly, so I think it
    will come eventually.  
    
    However, no one else in her class is reading or writting as much
    as she is.  I think its because she already knew all her letters
    and their sounds.  I think whole language worked for her only because
    she had a phonics base to work with.  The other children are not 
    getting this, not in her classroom anyways.    
    
    In my opinion the particular class she's in does not have a good mix.  
    They need both.  The teacher doesn't spend enough time going over 
    the letters and their sounds. 
    
    Teri
     
    
    

    Teri,
    
    Letter sounds are something we started as soon as Carrie was interested
    in how words worked.  (Thank you Sesamie Street) she used to make best
    guess efforts on putting together the grocery lists over the summer
    between kindergarten and 1st grade.  Frank also made a song with vowels
    both long and short sounds.  The schools can only do so much.  A lot of
    effort (at the child's own pace) has to be done at home.  This is true
    whether the school is publically or privately funded.  
    
    meg

    Meg, 
    
    Parent involvement is always *key*, both at home and with the school,
    yes.  However, in some cases, the school will inhibit your ability to
    help your child or even counteract your activities by sending a
    different message.  There we were working phonics with Joe, while his
    first grade teacher was pounding home the virtues of best guess
    spelling 4 days a week and giving a spelling test for accuracy on the
    5th day.  It's the mixed message that gets me.  Time and time again, we
    realize how much clear direction can mean to a child, yet these
    "advanced" educational theories are making mud.
    
    By and large, I am a public-school proponent.  I do think, however,
    that some of the more modern methods being employed in both private and
    public schools are just so much hog-wash, doing more harm than good. 
    My Joe began Kindergarten knowing how to spell a rather wide range of
    2,3, and 4 letter (clean) words.  After two years of the "best guess"
    spelling thing, his grades on spelling tests are below passing, and he
    *cannot* be convinced that spelling is important.  "Why can't I just
    guess, Mom?"
    
    M.
    
    a solid

FYI, "whole language" does NOT mean learning to read by recognizing whole
words.  It means using whatever clues you have -- picture, word recognition,
initial letter, similarity to another word, prefix, suffix, rhyme, context,
etc. -- to figure out what the word is; in essence, the "whole language." 
Phonics is a part of it, it's just not the entirety of it.

In general, the "whole language" approach also stresses writing, and by
de-emphasizing spelling initially they get a lot more writing done by the
earliest readers.

That being said, in any method there are good implementations and bad ones,
good teachers and bad teachers.  I'm sure there are teachers who get carried
away with invented spelling to the point of discouraging good spelling, just
ass there are teachers who get carried away with good spelling to the point of
inhibiting kids from writing because they're not sure how to spell certain
words.  In the case of a problem, it's probably a good idea to start with the
teacher rather than the method; after all, you can talk to the teacher more
easily than to an educational theory.

						Brian

    
    ....just a comment on "best guess" reading method.
    
    my sister learned to read my memorizing words and guessing at the ones
    she didn't know.  She never did learn to read very well and to this day
    has problems (she's 33).  She has increased her vocabulary, but still
    doesn't do well with unfamilliar words.  Now her daughter is in
    kindergarten and she really cannot help the child since the school
    district they live in teaches phonics.
    
    The school district we grew up in tried the program out for a few years
    and went back to basics.  I'm surprised to hear there are still schools
    teaching this method again.
    
    just my $.02
    

    
    
    I've always done a lot of reading with my daughter at home.  
    She likes it so its easy, we've NEVER pushed her.   I don't mind
    working with her at home and plan to do it always, but I do mind
    the mixed messages.  It would be nice if what I'm telling her is 
    important the teacher was also telling her is important.  I feel
    bad for her classmates because I think they are being short changed. 
    
    
    When she reads a book to me and gets a word wrong, I correct her. 
    When she spells something wrong I usually correct her.   She
    doesn't mind being told something is wrong.   
    
    
    Teri
    
    

    
    I should mention, I have spoken with my daughters teacher about 
    my wish to see more structure in the classroom.   
    
    She's given me things to read about whole language, inventive spelling.  
    There are also many things out on the web. 
       
    I've also spoken with the Principal.   There are a number
    of unhappy parents in my daughters class and they are putting together 
    a question and answer discussion regarding the k-1 curriculum. 
    
    Our Principal is VERY committed to whole language.  As parents we 
    are trying to work with them and the school committee.   We're also
    using the PTO to help us fund enrichment programs.  
    
    Teri
    
     

>>    ....just a comment on "best guess" reading method.

I've never heard of this method, and I've never heard of a school that uses it. 
My daughter's school uses whole language, is very enthusiastic about it, and
does extremely well with it, but it bears no resemblence to anything that could
be termed "best guess" that I can see.  If the only part of whole language a
school uses is the last resort guess for an unknown word, they are missing the
"whole" part of the phrase, and are not doing whole language teaching.

I'm not trying to belabor the point, it's just that a lot of people make the
assumption that whole language avoids phonics and spelling, and uses guesses
and word recognition exclusively.  The method comes in for a lot of unwarranted
bashing based on these assumptions, rather than bashing bad implementation or
bad teaching.  There are bad phonics-only curricula and teachers, too.

						Brian

    
    As the basenoter and a moderator 8^), please let's keep to the
    topic.   Continuing the reading method discussion somewhere 
    would be a good idea - since it is interesting.
    
    Thanks!

   
   Trying to get this discussion back on track...

   Re: .9

   You were asking about who sends their kids to private schools and why?

   Some of the factors going into the decision my wife and I made
   as to where we were to send our kids to school were: 1) we wanted
   an educational environment that reinforced a set of religious
   beliefs that both of us hold.  We also wanted a school environment
   that is not afraid to discuss moral and social issues. 2) We wanted
   to send our kids to a small school.  We, as parents, feel as though we
   can make more of an impact in a smaller school than a larger school.
   We also like the fact that the principal in a smaller school
   will usually know all of the kids by name, not just the
   disciplinary problems or the ultra smart kids.  3) We wanted
   a school that taught a certain amount of discipline.
   4) We like the idea of school uniforms.  5) We wanted small
   student/teacher ratio.  6) We wanted something that we could afford
   (both time-wise as volunteers, and money-wise).  7) We wanted
   a school that is close to where we live.

   Some of these factors are more important than others.  School
   uniforms is not a big deal, but simply a desirable.  There are
   probably other factors that I can't think of right now
   but the bottom line is that many of these factors are usually
   mutually exclusive.  Small student/teacher ratios in private schools
   mean big bux, for example.

   A parochial elementary school in the town where we live seemed
   to hit upon most of our factors, moreso than the public school
   did.  My wife and I are putting a lot of volunteer hours into the school
   and we feel that our work is helping to both keep the costs of
   tuition down for everyone and to make the environment of the school
   better for all of the kids there.  Many parents put even more time
   into volunteering than we do, and many parents put in less.

   I think that your kids will get out of the school system in multiples
   to what you put into it, a sentiment that was discussed in a number
   of earlier replies.  Whatever your reasons are for sending your kid(s)
   to a public or private school, I think that your kids will learn more
   if you are helping them and helping the school.

   Phil

    I was happy to read the previous note from Phil.  We, too, are
    struggling with the same considerations that he pointed out.  I think
    it is important to clarify that it may not be a dislike of the public
    school and by not sending my child(ren) there does not mean I don't
    like the public school system.  It may be, rather, that the private
    school offers a different set of core requirements that we are looking
    for to enhance the growth of our child(ren).  I agree that involvement
    by the parent is core, whether it be private or public.  But the
    political structure of the public school vs. various private schools is
    harder to make a short-term impact on.
    
    Betty

    I am beginning to research the schools where we live.  My only child
    still has 1.5 years until starting Kindergarten, but I have very little
    exposure to the current school opportunities available to her.  Other
    than visiting the schools, talking with other parents and checking the
    Test Scores and Reports, how does one know what to look for when
    comparing the "core requirements"?  How do you know that what you see
    is what your child gets?

    I may have picked this up in this Notes conference, not sure.  But here
    is a WWW pointer to the Massachusetts School Info, I'm sure other
    states have similar pointers.
    	http://www.eoe.mass.edu/pic.www/pic.html
    
    Regarding last reply, we started looking around about the same time,
    almost 2 years before expected Kindergarten start.  It's a good time to
    get a sense of what different schools offer.  We went to/go to any open
    houses of those we are interested in and any community school offerings 
    provided (public or private) such as pancake breakfasts, movie nights,
    craft days, etc.

    I agree that much of how a child learns/develop can be improved from
    the home, and does not always come from the school.
    
    I grew up in Wellesley, and went through the Wellesley public school
    system, which is considered to be one of the better ones in the state. 
    I think that the bottom line of this note is (1) what colleges will our
    children get into after going to these publc schools, and (2) how will
    their education affect their work/careers?
    
    
    I quickly realized that most families with money, that is, families
    that wanted their children to go to the more expensive, more
    prestigious, and/or Ivy leage colleges sent their children to private
    high school/prep school.  They had the money, they didn't care.  So the
    kids that I went to high school with were from families that were
    "average" or "normal".  Of my high school class, only 5 went on to Ivy
    league colleges ... actually a very large % went to U.Mass, BU, and BC.
    
    The point?  You could go to one of the best known high schools, and it
    doesn't automatically mean Harvard.
    
    Another side: I also had a friend who sent her son to private/prep
    schools from 6th grade on.  She also lived in Marlboro, and had heard
    too many bad things about sending her son to the public school there. 
    He's now in his third year at college with freshman status (at a really
    miserable school in Florida, he seems to take "incompletes" on
    everything), and she's at her witts end.  She tried to give him the
    best for his education, but apparently he never learned the values of
    trying to study hard and learn.

    	When we moved to Massachusetts just over 20 years ago, our main
    consideration for where to live was the "perceived" quality of the
    school system.  Hard to judge, but Massachusetts does provide
    standardized testing at various grades (4, 8, 12 as I recall) which
    you CAN use to compare school systems.  Naturally, this does not tell
    the whole story, but it is better than nothing.
    
    	Our three oldest children have survived high school(s) by now and
    are either in or out of college.  Let me say that public schools were
    not what I had hoped they would be, and there are LOTS of signs that
    they are getting worse.  For example, when we helped to bring in a
    gifted and talented program (which came and went with our children),
    there were teachers who spoke against it at school comittee meetings...
    But I digress.
    
    	Look at the class sizes.  Look at what the school committee sets as
    its goal for class size at different levels.  This will make a big
    difference.  Look at the Advanced Placement courses offered - how many.
    Ask about gifted and talented programs (if any still remain).  Ask
    about OM programs.  Ask about "enrichment" programs, especially if you
    have bright children - be skeptical about the answers you get.  For
    many, many years we were told how the bright children would get
    "enrichment" - balony...
    
    	In the end, all but our youngest (now a Freshman) chose to go to
    non-public High Schools, the first to an all boys Catholic high school,
    the next two to private boarding schools.  They were not perfect,
    either, but they seemed to be a better "fit" in each case.  For us the
    key was to allow the kids to choose (within reason) where they wanted
    to go with the proviso that once chosen, they had to make every effort
    to stick with their choice.  They all did.
    
    	For our most problematical daughter, private school was a blessing.
    In her senior year she had just over 30 kids in her classes - in total,
    namely 4 in one class, 2 in another, largest was 16.  I cannot stress
    enough what a difference class size will make, at all ages.  The
    smarter the child, the more of a mismatch public school is likely to
    be; this was certainly the case for us.  For example, when our daughter
    would complain to the teachers that they had already covered this
    material last week (let's move on), the school (guidance) would ask her
    why she could not be more like the other kids (fit in better).  This
    was an interesting message, when I was trying to reinforce the notion
    that it was OK to be "different".
    
    	It is my considered opinion that public schools are getting worse,
    the only difference being the rate at which they are getting worse.
    If you are able to consider private schools, do so.  If possible, try
    to give your children the right to choose, with your guidance.  There
    are some excellent schools out there, but they are mostly private, and
    are NOT cheap.  Class size will be smaller, teachers will be better,
    disruptive kids either change or will be shown the door.  As one director
    of admissions put it, "Nobody falls through the cracks here".  Where
    public schools pay 5-10 thousand per student, many private schools
    spend over 30 thousand per student - and pass most of this along to
    you.  I can assure you that sometimes it is worth every penny.
    
    Best of luck!
    Dave Eklund