Conference moira::parenting

    Don't forget to put out milk and cookies for Santa and
    a carrott(s) for his Reindeer (and of course you need
    to leave at least crumbs behind from Santa)

    
    When I was growing up, Santa gifts weren't wrapped. Last year, at 3.5,
    I figured Anna would notice, so I asked her "Does Santa wrap Xmas
    presents??" She told me no, that he's too busy and toys don't need to
    be wrapped, so that saved me from the mommy vs. Santa paper.
    
    Patty

    We generally don't wrap gifts from Santa either.
    
    When Lolita was little we qualified for xmas unlimited, I also
    explained when she wanted extravagant gifts that I couldn't afford the
    Santa tax on many big-ticket items.  x-mas unlimited people dressed as
    elves not Santa, which made life easier, as she could differentiate
    between the two.  
    
    the S Claus tax still comes into play, as Carrie has rather champagne
    tastes when it comes to some toys.
    
    meg

RE .0 - Ah, this web of lies grows ever more complex and difficult to manage!

>RE .0 - Ah, this web of lies grows ever more complex and difficult to manage!

Kinda why we're deciding not to represent Santa Claus as the bringer of
toys for our kids.  I'm sure other folk think its neat and harmless, but
I've now heard several stories within just our family of how they felt
rather bad or silly when their friends knew "the truth" well before they
did.

Guess I don't see the point of lieing to my kids.

Charlie

    I'll never forget when my little brother was 4 yrs old, my older sister
    sat outside his window to his room and rang jingle bells and yelled
    HoHoHo.  She then made hoof marks in the snow and sleigh marks.
    He was so excited I think he went outside barefoot. Even though I was
    10 and already knew the truth, we never said anything to my brother
    just to see the glow and smile on his face.  I don't think it hurt
    him when he found out the truth.  When he got older he said he realized
     we cared a lot for him that we went to that extent.  
    
    Rose

    Rose,
    
    I agree.  When I found out from other kids, I had already learned about
    the magic of the seasons from both parents and the rest of the family. 
    it was sort of a gradual thing, and didn't hurt, I helped do things for
    younger members of the family to carry on the magic for them.  
    
    This will be the really magical year for Atlehi.  She is old enough to
    get the ideas of the season, including helping me buy presents for
    Carrie, Lolita and Frank, but young enough that waking up to find candy
    canes on the tree, stuffed stockings and a christmas bear from the
    spirit of Santa Claus to be a wonderous mystery.  No way would I want
    her to miss this one.
    
    meg

    
        Gosh, I didn't know what to say to my grandson yesterday. He asked
    me to go and talk to Santa about getting him a computer. I said that
    I didn't think Santa could afford such a big gift. He then told me
    (he's 5 years old) that Santa didn't need any money because the elves
    made everything and took care of the expenses for him. I was floored!
    I then said, well we'll see what happens. I said "I hope you won't
    be dissappointed if you don't get a computer." He then said. "That's
    okay, as long as I get something!" So, I felt a little better. 
    
        Rosie

    Rosie,
    
    My brother ran into the same problem.  Times are tough and
    computers are expensive!  So, we told my nephew, who
    just turned 6, that Santa doesn't make all the gifts anymore.  That
    Mommy & Daddy have to send a check to Santa for most of the gifts and
    that Santa's elves only make 1 or 2 gifts and the rest are bought at
    the store.
    
    He was so happy when this was explained to him.  Because he wondered
    why the stores would sell toys that Santa would give away.  It also
    helped him understand why some children don't get much at Christmas.
    My nephew (on his own) has decided to send this weeks allowance to 
    Santa to help out.
    
    Merry Christmas,
    Kim
       

    Yes, Charlie [.5], there is a Santa.

    We can analyze Santa, the Easter Bunny, tooth fairy, etc to death.
    The idea that christains would celebrate a pagan holiday and include
    an abstract person such as santa is amazing.
    If you lie to your children about santa, will they think you are lying
    to them on other subjects?


    I don't know that anyone has a lock on understanding human nature.  I
    believe is you *think* you are lying to your children by using the
    santa tradition, then you probably are.  But if you are sharing a
    family tradition, if you are 'in the spirit' of the holidays, I'd say
    you are standing on pretty safe grounds.
    I've found that children who grow old enough 'to know' generally are
    happy to join with parents to continue the spirit with younger
    children.  Of course, there can be exceptions.

    All our children are old enough to know.  But it's surprising how many
    gifts from santa continue to find their way under our tree.
    If you are able to go beyond the literal jolly fat man in a red suit,
    and find unconditional gift giving spirit of caring and love, you'll
    share what our family sees.  It's all in how you view things.
    Merry Christmas everyone.
    ed 

    Re .10
    
    > The idea that christains would celebrate a pagan holiday and include
    > an abstract person such as santa is amazing.
    
    Ed, Santa Claus is not really an abstract person.
    
    The name Santa Claus is merely a corruption (though the Dutch) of
    Saint Nicholas, bishop of Myra during the reign of the Roman emperor
    Diocletian who was most certainly not abstract.  It was told of him
    that he gave bags of gold to redeem three girls from disgrace, and it
    was that gift that is partly responsible for today's gift-bringing
    Santa Claus.  There is a 12th-century mystery play that dramatizes the
    story.  In Germany, presents are brought not on Christmas but on the
    eve of Saint Nicholas' feastday, which is December 6.

    Santa brings one or two special things for christmas morning. My 4 year
    old understands Santa will try his best but may not be able to get her
    what she wants. And Santa has to give toys to children who don't have
    any; he knows she has a lot.
    
    For the 12 days following, she'll get presents from Mom and, maybe, a
    few other people who love her. I hope she'll come to understand the
    spirit of "unconditional gift giving" as one noter called it and
    understand that people who love her are hoping to give her lots of
    little things to celebrate. 

    Being an old pagan, I have no problems with "abstract chracters" or
    pagan holidays.
    
    ;-)
    
    meg

    In a sermon this last Sunday we heard about Saint Nicholas.  Among other
    stories we heard a  version of the "gold to three sisters" story.  We
    heard that there were three sisters in a poor family who could not
    marry because they didn't have a dowry.  St. Nicholas dropped pouches of
    gold down their chimney which landed in their stockings which were
    hanging by the fire to dry.

    There was an article written up in a newspaper called "The Homesteader"
    and I think it comes out of Framingham, Massachusetts, that went into
    detail about the Santa Claus story.
    
    They did not mention the three women story, but said that this person
    was a bishop (St. Nick) and was tall and thin, unlike our version. 
    They said that he had a mule that would help him drop off wooden toys
    to children and they were put into their clogs.  As the story grew into
    more fiction than fact, we replaced the clogs with stockings because
    they were expandable, and could fit more.
    
    Anyways... 
    
    My SIL's son was knee deep in soot in my fireplace yesterday wondering 
    how Santa would fit down the chimney.
    
    Another friend here said her three year old granddaughter mentioned
    that "Baby Jesus was born in a major".
    
    All my son Paul has been saying for the last three days is "MOMMY..
    MOMMY... TREE.... BOOM!" because we cut our tree down.
    
    I wish this time of year lasted all year around and not just for the
    short time it does.
    
    cj

    
    I was taking my son to the store yesterday and there happened to
    be an elderly gentleman sitting outside the store.  It was perfect,
    he had white hair and beard and was rather stout.  
    
    I said to Nathan, "Huh! Look at that man over there, he looks
    just like Santa Clause.  Maybe he's spying to see if kids are
    being good!"
    
    "No way, Mom!"
    
    "Well, I think so..."
    
    Then, as we got closer, out of the corner of his mouth so as not
    to be caught, he said, " Mom, I better be good, he really does look
    like Santa!"
    
    It looks like he'll be believing for another year.
    
    Pam

    My sister's neighbor has a very large tummy and a long white 
    beard and white hair.  Tiffany (age 5) has seen him on a number
    of occasions in regular clothes, as well as in a Santa suit
    (He's Santa at malls sometimes).  So she questioned this, and
    we informed her that this was his home when he wasn't living
    at the North Pole.  She seemed to buy it ...
    
    Janice

what lies,,,,  what do you guys mean lies...

there's not really a Santa.....

.......  say it isn't so....

8^)

seriously,,

I don't think the Santa white lie is a big 
deal either..

My kids are well out of the stage, (I think..  Sons
16, daughters 14,, yea they're probably out of it..)

anyway,,  the BEST Christmases were the ones when they
were young enough and fully believe in Santa.

looking back now, I can honestly say it was almost
magic.  Brings a smile to my and my wife's face
everytime we remember those Christmases...  

I really miss those years... Just enjoy them while you
can. . let the kids be kids..  Part of being a kid 
is believing in things like Santa (and with no conditions
of sending checks, paying for half, elves make 1 or 2..
Sheesh!)...  They'll grow up and have life slapping em 
up side the head soon enough.. 

Merry Christmas everyone..

/ray

    
       Rather than thinking of it as 'lies', more like a time when 
    children need 'pretending' in their lives. Just like when they pretend
    they are firemen, or mothers with their little dolls. It's a time
    when they need 'fun' before the druggery of adult life. 
    
        Rosie

    Ummm, I just hope everyone understood I was being sarcastic earlier
    when I called it a "web of lies"! It is indeed a lot of fun to watch my
    5 year old son talking about Santa. However, I do get a kick out of the
    gyrations people go through to keep it up.
    
    ;^)

    We have always kept the 'Santa thing' low key.  Our 5 year old son asks
    questions and we lead him to answer his own questions.  When he came
    to my group's potluck and Santa arrived, my son was quick to get in
    line.  A few days later, he excitedly told some teenage friends that he 
    saw the 'Real Santa'.

Another hint - different topic all together.

Open out of town gifts, requiring thank you notes separately from your
"huge batch" of gifts.

We found our 3 year old gaily ripping off tags and opening gifts not
meant for him.  That means we're not quite sure who gave him what, so
the thank you notes will be a bit contrived...  We had several cases 
where we had to wave an open gift about to see if anyone of the 8 adults
present would own up to knowing about who gave it to who...  ;-)

Charlie

My parents slipped up this year when they filled the Christmas stockings
for the whole family, including my nephew and niece (5 and 3).  One of the
gifts in each stocking was a fancily-colored pencil, but unfortunately my
nephew picked up on the fact that his pencil had a bar-code tag on it.

My brother (their uncle) offered this explanation: Santa's elves were
supposed to make all the toys in Santa's workshop, but there must have
been a bad elf who was too lazy to make the pencils and went out to the
store and bought them instead.

I *think* my nephew accepted this...

				-- Bob

   Oh... c'mon now... buying pencils because of lazy elves... my
   goodness...
   
   Don't folks realize that Santa is using the latest technology for
   intentory control and manufacturing processes?!  The fact that there's
   a bar code on something that comes from Santa's workshop just proves
   that he's keeping up with the latest improvements in production
   engineering!
   
   ymmv,
   
   - Tom  :-)