Conference moira::parenting

    Interesting concept...the only issue I have w/ it for a young child is
    that the time slots are too long for their comprehension. I'd scale
    that back somewhat (remember when the time between birthday's seemed
    like forever?). I think the disciplined approach is helpful, but the
    kids have to see the rewards early enough and often enough to make it
    real to them. No reason why you can't re-create the timeslots when they
    are older.... 

Interesting ideas.  However, what we find is the biggest problem is the
spending, rather than the saving.  Leah has been getting allowance for several
years, and has spent her own money once.  She's expressed the desire to buy
certain things for herself, but that hasn't really happened.  With no spending
goals at all, it's hard to discuss balancing short-term and long-term goals. 
What do other people do about this kind of thing?

(I suppose we're as guilty as she is; we have no specific saving/spending goals
other than socking away money for the "future."  It's hard to teach how to do
something we don't really do ourselves.)

Regarding the record-keeping: we've been discussing keeping track of Leah's
allowance on the computer, and perhaps giving her a "virtual" allowance that
she can draw on.  That way, it would stay in the bank, earning interest, and we
wouldn't have this load of cash sitting in the house.

						Brian

    We have 4 kids with VERY different ideas about savings.

    Our youngest daughter Anna (now 5) saw a stuffed animal in a
    toy store that she DESPERATELY wanted.  We looked at the price
    and when we got home she counted out her money and she needed
    to save for a while longer before she could buy it.  She's
    a GREAT saver (what does she have to spend money on?) so after
    a couple of months she had saved up her allowances enough to
    buy the animal.  We all went off to the store and she bought it.

    On the way home I commented that now she would have no money
    at all in her piggy bank and asked how she felt about that.
    She said it was okay, since her new animal was more important
    than money.

    After short pause her older sister Molly who's now 7 piped up

    'Anna, NOTHING is more important than money'.

    We have been using a different approach to money.  We practice the
    belief that relationships with friends are the main emphasis in life.
    Money is not important.
    
    All those TV toy commercials that bombard our kids can be very
    influential.  When my 5 year old son shops for a birthday present for 
    a friend, he is not interested in anything for himself.  He seems to 
    be quite satisfied with what he has and who he is.  Same for his parents.
    Same for my dad (not my shop-a-holic/work-a-holic mom).
    
    He is learning the value of money by our discussions on the price of 
    things (homes, cars, bicycles, various toys).  He has a bank account
    and likes the idea that his money is growing.  I am curious to see
    if he will stay in this mode or be influenced by the spend-a-holics.

    Interesting...
    
    My 4 1/2 year old is learning to make choices. When shopping for a
    birthday present for a friend, she decided she wanted a doll for
    herself. I agreed she could have it if she had enough money in her
    penny jar...she did. However, back at the store, she changed her mind
    and bought a video instead. Now, recently, she's been complaining about
    her choice and trying to switch back to the doll. There is not enough
    money in the penny jar adn she is having too much trouble deciding on
    what she'll ask Santa to get her so this is all getting complicated.
    
    One problem I have is hte idea of allowance. The penny jar is mom's
    spare change. She isn't earning money. How do you save what you don't
    earn ? 

    
    ...chores.
    
    My son has jobs that he is expected to do around the house and
    there are others that are his chores.  If he does his chores...
    ALL of them, he receives an allowance of 8 dollars a week. 
    Two dollars of this is his to spend as he wishes (he usually ends
    up saving it), the other 6 dollars is divided between 3 jars,
    short term savings, long term savings, and tax.  The tax
    money is used for spending money on vacations or for Christmas
    presents, etc..
    
    I think this is teaching him that some things are required of us
    in life and that we are not always compensated for those things
    and others that provide a valuable service to others (such as
    helping Mom around the house) is something that you may be
    compensated for.  Also, he has gotten very good at figuring
    out what toys are junk and will break shortly after they are
    purchased and what is quality.  And he thinks long and hard
    before he takes any money out of his short term savings.
    
    As of yet he has not touched the long term or taxes.  
    
    Pam

    IMO age 4 is a little young to have an official "allowance", but you
    can still save what few coins of the realm *do* come your way.  When
    Alex was that age she got all my pennies; every night (or whenever I
    got around to cleaning out the change purse) the pennies would go
    direct from my wallet to her pickle jar in her room.  What was a big
    deal to her was trading coins up for bigger denominations, which is not
    a bad math lesson!
    
    She also got (still gets) all the redemption money for cans and
    bottles.  Then there's birthday money and other windfall items
    (sometimes I buy a scratch ticket and let her keep the winnings; she
    got $5 once that way).
    
    We have pretty much always had the rule that 50% of her income goes to
    savings (a tin box, the contents of which gets deposited about once per
    quarter) and the rest is discretionary (but subject to parental veto,
    of course!).
    
    Then you get into the religious war over whether an allowance is earned
    (by chores performed around the house) or given as a right  :-)
    
    Leslie

    RE .6 How old is your son? 
    
    My older son, Ryan, is 7, and has been receiving 50 cents a week since
    he turned 6. He is expected to be helpful when asked, and has certain
    chores as well. He sometimes gets $1 from an aunt as a treat, but
    usually has just his allowance to spend from. I have been amazed that
    he can plan for things he wants - he was able to save (with b-day $
    too) up $25 of the $30 it cost to buy roller blades, which he really
    wanted. He also occasionally buys hmself a book from the school book
    order, especially when it goes over the book limit that I've already
    paid for.
    
    

    
    re. -1
    
    My son is 8 years old.  He gets a weekly allowance equal to his age.
    Eight dollars may seem like a lot but his long term savings is being
    saved for college so it is pretty painless and will be a great reward
    in the end.
    
    Pam

For all you parents whose kids actually spend some of their allowance, what do
they spend it on?  As I mentioned in an earlier note, my daughter spends
essentially nothing, and I'm curious if part of the reason for the difference
is that we're paying for things that other kids might pay for themselves.  (No
value judgement intended, I'm just curious.)

For example, how do you handle:

	Birthday presents for other kids?
	School lunch?
	School book club orders?
	Magazine subscriptions?
	Museum gift shop purchases?
	???

						Brian

    Our girls (age 8 and 10) get a dollar a week.  They can spend it on
    anything they want except candy.  They usually spend it when we go on
    an outing together, on impulse items.  Sometimes they save for
    something big, usually with a Barbie theme, but they often lose
    interest if the goal is too big.
    
    Over the last few years I've seen them understand the balance between
    spending and saving, but it took a while.  One daughter was spending it
    as fast as she got it, the other was saving it all.  Now they think it
    out and you can see the little wheels spinning in their heads.
    
    Kathleen (8) was obsessed with a $40 (!) set of Barbies for a few
    months.  She put every reference to money in terms of what it would
    take her to get that.  She paid attention to what gas, dinner,
    everything cost.  It was an eye-opener for her.  She eventually lost
    interest, but I think she has a new feeling for what things cost.
    
    They also use allowance for items at the school store, those ripoff
    machines in the exitway of the grocery store, and comic books.  We pay
    for birthday presents for friends, but they have to choose within a
    budget at the store.  That also took a while to sink in.         

    
    My daughter, 10, get $1 a day for allowance. She has to deposit
    50% of it in the bank. She is free to spend the rest of it, 
    with our approval. She also gets $ from my parents for her
    birthday and that goes in bank with no exception. We take care
    of all the necessary expenses, including birthday presents, 
    books and magazines (National Geographic World and 3-2-1 Contact), 
    lunch and snack $. She does not have to spend her allowance at all.
    So far, she spends her money for non-essential items like souvenirs 
    (like T shirt) when we go on vacations, animal posters for her room,
    toys and snacks for her kitty (that is really amusing), dance school 
    sweatshirt, trophy for dance competition (each dancer only gets a
    ribbon), etc. We try to teach her whether something is worth spending 
    money on.  
    
    
    Eva  

    
    Oh, I left out that she paid for 50% of her electic guitar.
    Everytime we go to the bank, she gets excited about the interests
    she earned! MOst of the time, she saves more than she spends.
    
    
    Eva

    Re: -Pam
    
    Did you get your allowance ideas from "Money Doesn't Grow On Trees".
    We follow that same procedure.  It works well for us.
    
    For the person who wanted to know what the kids spend their money
    on...my daughters take weekly horseback riding lessons ($16/kid/lesson) 
    they each pay $1.00 toward their lessons.  If we go to a flea market, yard
    sale or shopping they can bring their money with them and spend it if
    they wish.  I pay for birthday presents and movies and things like
    that.
    
    Roberta

    
    Roberta,
    
    We don't have the book but when the author of "Money Doesn't
    Grow on Trees" was on Oprah, we got the idea from her.
    
    Pam

We have a 13 year old and an 8 year old.  They each get an allowance.  When we 
first started with each of them they got a small amount of allowance "free"
or not tied to chores.  Each year we add to the amount and tie it to chores 
they are expected to do.  They also have the ability to earn money by doing 
extra work (washing cars, windows etc.)

My 13 year old is now getting $10 a week and my 8 year old gets $5.  This is 
money for themselves.  They are not required to by presents with it, though,
traditionally, they each buy some small Christmas presents for each other.

They can spend the money any way they wish, just like adults.  The younger one
does more saving for larger things, the older has joined a book club and
makes his own purchases.

This seems to be working for us, your mileage may vary.

Yesterday Anthony (7.5) showed us how much he keeps track of his money.  A few 
weeks ago we were short of cash in the house and needed a few dollars for 
something.  Anthony was the only person with some cash so we wrote him an IOU 
for $7.

Today is Book Fair at his school, so yesterday, while getting his book bag 
ready, he asked Diane to put a folded piece of paper in the bag.  Diane opened 
it up and it was the IOU we gave him!  He was quite serious, he planned to use 
this to buy books at the book fair...  Diane didn't burst his bubble so put 
the IOU in his bag.

Last night, after they went to bed, I went to Kroger and cashed a check so I 
could cash in the IOU this morning befre he went to school.  This evening we 
will gently explain to him that IOUs are not real cash, but are only good 
between the giver and givee.  We were just surpised at his total faith in 
being able to use the IOU as cash!

Dave