Conference moira::parenting

Our local HMO will not give it to toddlers,
I think the age they consider giving it is
around 10 and up.  They encourage adults who
have not had chicken pox to have the vaccine.

The reasoning for not giving it to the younger
kids was explained as:
	- chicken pox is a normal childhood
	   disease, they feel it is better 
	   for a child to have it than use
	   the vaccine.
	- the vaccine is new.

Not listed as a reason...could it be cost?

When Lauren got it at 2.5 she was little uncomfortable
but for the most part didn't notice it.   The
biggest inconvience was juggling the work 
schedules.

    I am hoping the true reason they are not giving this out is due to the
    cost of the vaccine (insurance companies).  
    
    I would rather let my son get these while he is young but I am pregnant
    and have never had the chicken pox (I was tested) and my obgyn insists
    that I have my son receive this vaccine.  They want this done asap as
    chicken pox season has begun (I know a few cases in Littleton already
    and my son goes to preschool in Littleton).  They assume if he doesn't
    get these, hopefully I will not be exposed.
    
    I know he is probably right but I am just a little nervous about this
    since it is so new and this is why I was wondering if anyone else's
    child has received this.

    What is in the vaccine ? Aren't vaccine's benign forms of the virus. If
    he gets mildly sick from teh vaccine, is that like bringing chicken pox
    into the home ?
    
    Please don't answer the question here but call the Center for Disease
    control to get an informed answer.

> Please don't answer the question here but call the Center for Disease
> control to get an informed answer.

  Sorry, but here's a generic answer:

    o Vaccines can be made from any part of a virus that will
      illicit an immune response from your body.

    o Sometimes, whole, killed virus is used. These *CAN NOT*
      cause the actual disease if correctly manufactured.

    o Sometimes, weakened virus or a weaker strain of the virus
      is used. Jenner's original Smallpox vaccination was based
      on the non-lethal Cowpox, was it not? These can (and do)
      cause disease but in people with normal immune systems,
      the disease is essentially harmless.

    o Sometimes, just a portion of the virus's outer protein coat
      is used. This *CAN NOT* cause disease.

                                   Atlant

    
    Just went through this a couple months ago with Jonathan at his 2yr
    checkup.
    
    Matthew Thornton is supposed to be "pushing" the vaccine.  
    
    I personally, am opposed to it for young children.
    
    o They do not know the long term effectiveness of the vaccine, though
    supposedly it's been used for MANY years in Japan, and seems to be
    effective.
    
    o I would RATHER that my child *GET* chicken pox, and then I know he's
    covered "for life".
    
    o Chicken pox, as a child, is a pretty harmless thing.  Inconvenient
    yes, and juggling work is a pain in the butt, but it's nothing "bad"
    for the child to get.
    
    o Chicken pox as a late teen+ is a very BAD thing to get, and can leave
    permanent damage (sterility not the least of which...).
    
    Soooooo .... we opted to NOT vaccinate.  If he hasn't had chicken pox
    by the time he's about 14, they would then give him the vaccine to
    protect him "as an adult".  Once I'd made this decision, my pedi was
    THRILLED, and she THEN admitted that the reason that "the country" is
    pushing the vaccine is more for economic reasons - so that people don't
    miss so much work, being home with sick kids - but as for benefit to
    the child, she saw none, and given the unknown effectiveness, to her
    there were more "bads" than "goods".
    
    Also, she gave me the literature, and I'm sure that somewhere on there,
    it said that some *SMALL* percentage of kids actually DO get chicken
    pox from the vaccine ... if that helps determine the type/source of
    vaccine.  Another thing that bothered me, is that side effects could
    take up to a month to show up - that sounded like some "serious stuff"
    to me!!
    
    So now we sit and wait for dots ... (-: (and are looking forward to an
    unexpected week off of work (-;).
    
    GOOD LUCK!!
    
    

    Hmmmm....Patty... you want Jonathan so sick??? How about some
    croup?  ;-)   
    
    I was thinking about the vaccine for Angeline myself, but after
    just reading the reasoning in Patty's note, I'm rethinking.  I
    hadn't thought about just vaccinating her later.  If that's an
    option, it makes more sense.
    
    							cj*->

    I think we need to keep in mind that the original noter has a special
    circumstance for considering the vaccine.  
    
    My son had the chicken pox last year.  Since I had never had them as a
    child (confirmed with a test), I managed to get them 3 weeks after
    Kyle.  So, we haven't been looking into the vaccine. 
    
    However, if your looking for some real-life experience with it, my
    Sister-in-law just had 2 of her 3 children vaccinated.  She has a 4 yr
    old boy and twin girls that are 2.5.  One of the twins has been
    receiving cemo treatments for leukemia.  In an effort to avoid bringing
    home the chicken pox to a child who's immune system is extreamly low,
    the healthy twin and the boy were vaccinated.  This was advised by a
    number of specialist at UMASS.  There was insufficient data on whether
    it would be a benifit or harmful to have the sick twin vaccinated. 
    Based on the lack of information, they decided to not give her the
    vaccine.  Of course long-term effects aren't known yet, neither one had
    any immediate side effects from the vaccine.
    
    Jean
    

    re.7
    
    You know, you're right, I did lose track of the the original's 
    noter's case!
    
    re.0
    
    Sue!  Congratulations!  from a former AKO'er
    
    							cj *->

    Both my kids had the chicken pox shot this past summer.  My son was
    about 15 months at the time and my daughter 3 1/2.  They did not have
    any side effects that I know of.  My insurance company did cover the
    shots - $60 per child.
    
    I decided to do the shots for the wrong reason in my opinion - I 
    couldn't afford to miss all the work time if both my kids got it and
    I knew they were covered by our insurance.
    
    Our pedis were very wishy-washy on whether we should have them done so
    they didn't help with the decision.
    
    I was a little surprised when the nurse told me just as she was about
    to give the first kid the shot that they could get chicken poxs from
    the shot.
    
    Carol

    I am just getting around to checking my responses today.  My husband
    and I have made the decision to have my son vaccinated.  We looked at
    both the pro's and con's and thought if I were to get these while
    being pregnant, myself and the new baby could get very sick.  I will
    have to thank my 3 year old when he is much older for doing this for
    me (us).  I have talked this over with my son's pediatrician and my
    obgyn and they both feel that vaccinating my son is the best decision.
    My son's pediatrician said they will test him again in a few years
    to see if he is still immune.  If he is still young enough when the
    immunity wears off, I will not give him the vaccine again.
    
    Now, let's just hope none of the other kids in my son's preschool or
    daycare expose me to the chicken pox.
    
    Thanks for the replies.
    Susan

>    I was a little surprised when the nurse told me just as she was about
>    to give the first kid the shot that they could get chicken poxs from
>    the shot.

Which shows that this is what is known as "live vaccine" ... and a true
chickenpox vaccine.  (Smallpox vaccine is actually made from cowpox ...
but is effective)

The thing that worries me about a live Chckenpox vaccine ... and they probably
haven't done it long enough to tell, is that the Herpes Zoster virus (the
name of the Chicken pox virus) has the ability to "cloak" itself and become
undetectable by the body's immune system.  Sometime in the future, it may
"decloak" and cause either a new Chickenpox or shingles infection.  Now,
if the live vaccine is not sufficiently debilitated to prevent the virus
doing its cloaking thing, you could be giving the kids Chicenpox for some
later time!  (or shingles).  Dunno at this stage if this is good or bad!

Stuart

    I forgot to mention in my last response that the vaccine contains
    the live virus and this is why pregnant woman cannot receive it and
    why there is a small chance that my son could still get the chicken
    pox.  The only good news is that if he does get the chicken pox, it
    will probably be a very mild case.
    
    Susan

    Stuart given the fact that shingles happens in peole who get chicken
    pox anyway that is one side effect that doesn't worry me.  I may get
    Atlehi vaccinated.  She had chicken pox at 9 months, poor little thing,
    and Laura (our Dr.) gave me the "pleasant" news that children who get
    chicken pox under a year old, often get them again, and nursing
    children who get mild cases are also susceptable to another case,
    (borne out in Carrie's case.  she had a mild case at 2, in fact I
    thought it was empitigo or something at first and took her into the
    office. She got them again in the third grade, and passed them on to
    Atlehi, who got very sick.)
    
    Also, while CP is considered a fairly mild childhood disease 1000
    children in the US die each year from complications from CP.
    
    meg

    My daughter got the vaccine in September and had no side effects.  Her
    pediatrician, who's opinion I respect greatly, highly encouranged me to
    have it done.  We belong to Kaiser and it did not cost a dime.  She
    mentioned to me that they would probably make it a standard vaccine
    along with the other childhood vaccines in the near future.  Another
    co-worker here at Digital also had ner son vaccinated and her is also
    three.  FYI!

Patty:

> o Chicken pox as a late teen+ is a very BAD thing to get, and can leave
> permanent damage (sterility not the least of which...).
    
  I think you're confusing Chicken Pox with Mumps. As was already
  mentioned, the Chicken Pox virus is associated (in later life)
  with Shingles.
                                   Atlant

    Can't verify the sterility, but chicken pox in late teens IS very bad. 
    I was hoslitalized TWICE because of it, with secondary infections.  
    I got them when I was 16.  David got them before the vaccine was
    available, otherwise I would have had him vaccinated.
    Sarah  

    My son's pediatrician was recommending that my son be vaccinated, and
    we were going to do it until I spoke to my sitter.  She said she had
    attended a seminar for daycare providers and they had a pediatrician as
    the guest speaker.  Someone asked about the chicken pox vaccine and he
    reccommended that any child vaccinated should not be allowed at daycare
    for 2 weeks because there is potential for others to get chicken pox
    from them.  My sitter said that a women in the audience confirmed this.

    My son, Jonathan, received the chicken pox vaccine at his 5 year
    checkup.  We decided to do this because:
    
    o Jonathan attends Pre-K and manages to bring home some illnesses
    o we have a newborn infant
    o 10+ year vaccination program in Japan proves low risk and effective
      immunity
    o Pediatrician supported our decision

   Note - I think this is talked about somewhere else, but there is
   medication that adults can take if they should happen to contract CP
   (and I think shingles too).  It doesn't stop the progress, but in my
   case, it inhibited the CP enough that it was no worse than my kids
   got... mostly I stayed away from the office because I was contagious,
   not because I was that uncomfortable or anything.
   
   ( Yes, my mother confirmed that I never had CP as a kid, and so I
   ended up catching it from my own kids about 1.5 yrs ago).
   
   So... yes, its qite true that CP is worse as you get older, but there
   are means for dealing with it and helping the situation.
   
   - Tom
   

    I believe the medicine that you're referring to is Acylovir, or
    Zovirax.  (one is the brand, the other is the drug - not sure which is
    which (-:).  
    
    It works on ALL the herpes-type viruses, but is most effective if taken
    IMMEDIATELY (well, even a day or two before, if you're psychic!) at the
    first sign of symptoms.  It helps lessen the severity and duration of
    the outbreak.  If you take it after you've had pox or whatever, it's
    pretty ineffective.  There's also a cream/ointment, that is
    *OUTRAGEOUSLY* expensive, that's available for adults anyway, that help
    close the "sores" sooner - I don't think it's available for kids
    though.  It's ~$200.00/ounce  And of course, I can't remember the name of
    it to save my life ... sorry!!
    
    But the zovirax is pretty effective if you use it soon enough....
    Jonathan had some awful mouth disease once, that he'd had too long to
    do much about - BUT, he also exposed Angeline to it, so CJ called her
    doctor, got the prescription for zovirax, and as I recall, made a HUGE
    difference.  Now what WAS that disease CJ?!?!?
    

   re: .20  Patty,
   
   Yep, that's the stuff.  
   
   We knew immediately when I had CP because my kids already had it, and
   we had already confirmed with my mother that I was at risk.  It was
   simply a matter of waiting to see if I would actually catch it or not.
   In fact, the doctor's office didn't even want to see me - when I told
   them what was happening, they called in the perscription and didn't
   want me to show up in the office at all.
   
   This stuff was priced, I *think*, somewhere in the neighborhood of
   $100 for a 1 week supply of tablets - not as bad as the cream, but
   still I was glad for co-payments.

   Regards,
   
   - Tom

    re. 20
    
    That was that, oh.... hand and foot, but it wasn't hand in foot but
    just like it and everyone thinks the two names mean the same thing.
    
    Fifth's disease, or something?   It's extremely similar to hand n'foot.
    And you're right, Patty, calling right away to my pedi and starting
    Angeline on it was amazing.  Even the pedi was real impressed with
    how light a case Angeline got.
    
    						cj *->

    
    I think it wasn't fifth's .... I think it was some REALLY long name
    that I could never remember enough to pass along ....
    
    Hmmmmmmmmm - now I'm curious!

    It was probably Coxsackie virus? Sometimes called hand and mouth
    disease because the blisters appear on the hands and in the mouth.
    Sue
    (who remembers the name because there was a town on the other side
    of the river called Coxsackie where I grew up)

    or muluskum contagiosum? (sp)
    
    wierd rash, caused by a virus, by nephew had it.  looks kind of like
    raised clam shells.
    
    meg
    
    

    
    I've been reading this string with interest to see what everyone's
    thoughts were. I'm of the mind that it's a childhood disease and is
    not life threatening (for the most part) so let them get it and get it
    over with. I type this as I sit here working from home since I got the
    call from daycare yesterday that Anna (4.5) has the chicken pox. Now
    to wait and see when/if Lara breaks out with them. Thank god for
    understanding managers and the ability to work from home.
    
    Patty 

    
    Haven't hit the virus yet .... it's a rash inside the mouth only, and I
    THINK had "herpes" in the name, but maybe not.  They're whitish dots,
    which flatten out and turn red/raw, and apparantly hurt like CRAZY!!!!
    
    He never had anything on his hands at all - it was all JUST inside his
    mouth, and took me several days to take him to the Dr since there was
    nothing noticeable (assuming you don't count REALLY GRUMPY! as
    noticeable!)
    
    patty

    re.-1
    
    and the fever
    
    			cj

Any new opinions on the chicken pox vaccine?  When Shruthi was in for her 3 yr
checkup, her pedi strongly recommended that we give her the vaccine.  I was of
the opinion that this is a fairly harmless childhood disease, but he did say
that some children could get it fairly bad and suffer the consequences.  So, now
I am debating about whether I should give her the vaccine..someone mentioned
that if you do give the vaccine, the child might have to be kept away from
daycare..anyone know if this true?  Any other experiences from people who
vaccinated their kids?

--Chaya.

    
    
    
    
    Given a choice, I obviously would not want anyone to have
    to catch chickenpox. However, I am an advocate of letting your 
    kids catch chickenpox as children as they will then be protected 
    against it through adulthood. I did not catch chickenpox as a 
    child and caught it as an adult and it is *much* more serious.
    
    The chickenpox vaccine, like any other vaccine, has a limited
    time for protection. This means that your child may be protected
    during childhood and become at risk for the disease during
    adulthood when the disease is much more serious to contract.
    In addition, if you contract the disease while pregnant,
    it can be very serious. As a kid, yes, chickenpox is an annoying pain, 
    as an adult, it is much more than an annoying pain.
    
    BTW, vaccinations do not confer a true immunity. You only
    gain true lifelong immunity from actually having had the disease.
    
    -Beth
                       

    Hi Beth!!!
    
    The issue that makes the vaccination decision difficult is that SOME
    children do get very sick from chickenpox.  I know of someone whose
    child was hospitalized earlier this month due to severe complications
    of the disease.  This was a healthy normal child with no history of 
    medical problems.  While the risk is small, it is still there.  
    Also if a child is on some types of medication then chickpox can be 
    near-fatal.
    
    And some people that have had chickenpox as a child can get it as 
    adults in the form of shingles so it is one of the few diseases that
    can repeat over time.
    
    I personally have a problem letting my child become vaccinated with a
    relatively new immunization that hasn't stood the test of time. 
    However I  am still on the fence with this one.  
    
    Nancy