Conference moira::parenting

    
       Personally, with all these accidents I'd say the child isn't getting
    enough adult supervision. 
    
       Does he have a lot of accidents at home? Is he proned to accidents?
    (17 months old), he's probably doing a lot of exploring and may very
    well be at the wrong place at the wrong time. 
    
       One of my sons (Gregory) used to have a lot of accidents and it
    turned out he had a large build up in the middle ear of wax, once that
    was cleaned out he was fine. Just a thought. The middle ear helps
    with coordination and balance. 
    
        Maybe they should move him back to where he was before the change? 
    Was he fine at that time?
    
        Rosie

    Karen,
    	I too have kids in daycare and share your concern. My 2yr old an
    1 yr old go 2-3 times a week and they are both very active.  So I'm
    not surprised that they would come home with a bump or bruise every
    now and then.  But a few things concern me about this place.  I think
    17 mo is kind of young still to be placing with other children 2 +.
    Brit is 14mo and still kind of wabbly in walking, so she can get easily
    pushed over by running 2yr olds.  Second, I don't think naps should
    be in a cot. My daycare still has them in cribs or for 2yr olds on mats
    on the floor, so they can't fall down.  Am I too cautious, but a 
    jungle gym at that age?  It seems that there are too many kids for
    the number of keepers.  I have a hard enough time with my two. I
    can imagine 10!  
    
    Be sure to share your concerns with them.  It's better to be safe
    than sorry.
    
    Rose

         It sounds to me that your son was moved up to the next group
    because they needed a slot in the infant room and had an opening in
    the toddler room.   I would want him moved back.  My son is 23 months
    and very active.  The jungle gym would scare me for a child that young.
    
    
    				Mary
                                       

    Massachusetts state Law is when they are 15months they moved to the
    next room with is 15 months to 2.9.  
    
    The center that my kids go to cots were only used for the older kids (5
    years and up).  The other kids use mats.  

    I also have a 17 month old in daycare.  She was moved out of the infant
    room at 14 months, so that doesn't bother me.  She, also, is very
    active and has had her share of scrapes and bruises.  In her center,
    they include the first and second toddler classes on the playground a
    lot (ages 14 months to 2 1/2 years), however that's with 20 kids and 4
    adults, lots of supervision.
    
    I'd be concerned about the fact that they ever had the merry-go-round
    on pavement or cement.  That's not an appropriate play surface for kids
    this age.  I'd also be concerned about the block incident.  
    
    As for removing the blocks from the room, the kids will just find
    something else to throw.  Sounds like they need either more or better
    attentive supervision.  This would go for the jungle gym also.
    
    In our center, kids from 14 months through pre-K use mats.  There are
    no off-floor cots.
    
    Irene

    I have to say, the fact they responded to each incident is a positive
    thing.  They don't just say, "Oh, accidents happen".  
    
    						cj
    

    
    Just my 2 cents....
    
    1.  He fell off a merry-go round and hit the pavement and
    scratched his chin all up.  The scab is gone but he still has a red
    mark where he hit. (because of this accident they moved the merry go 
    round to the grassy area)

    17 months seems a little early for a merry-go-round to me, even small
    ones.  You can never trust 17 months for what they will do and in a
    merry-go-round, where you can't *immediately* grab your child who may
    try to get off, or lose their balance.
    
    2.  Fell or jumped off his cot and bruised his cheek and got a couple
    of pin point punctures.
    
    I agree with other reply, suggest to your daycare mats if your son is
    still too young to leave a crib and they can't supply one.

    3.  Got hit near the eye with a guitar.  This caused a bruise and some
    scratches.
    
    This can happen at any place any where there is more than one child.  
    I think my youngest son could even do it to himself without any 
    help from another child!  What I'd watch out for and I would question
    the teacher is,  was it an accident or was it "meant" to happen becasue
    your son was the part of an altercation with another possibly older
    child.  If the latter was true, how did the teachers handle this as it
    was happening (where they there to see what happened) and if the other
    child hit you son, what corrective action was taken so that the other
    childs undersatnds this was not appropriate behavior. 

    4.  Fell off/on (no one saw this happen) a wooden jungle gym and cut
    his forehead (needed 2 stitches) (because of this accident they
    separated outdoor time.  Now only his class goes out.  Before the
    2-year old class was also out with him)
    
    This one really gets to me.  I would have had a hard time not
    screaming "What do you mean no one saw this happen?"  A 2 year old,
    .....maybe, but a a 17 month old *JUST* into the new "older" group, and
    who already has had a lot of bumps and bruises.  No way.  The
    supervison wasn't here at all.  You are lucky it was just stitches!! I
    have two active sons, and even if the older kids were segregated, my
    son could kill himself if not supervised closely in a jungle gym
    setting.  He's fearless as I'm sure your son is at that age.  They'll
    climb anything.  They (the school or teacher(s)) are just not doing
    there job.  Maybe the teachers are used to 2 and 3 year olds, who
    knows.
    
    5. When I picked him Friday I was told he had been hit in the head with a
    block another kid threw and it landed 1 inch away from where he got
    stitches (Connor now has a nice bruise at the impact site).  The teacher 
    has requested the blocks be removed from the room but the director isn't 
    sure she will do this as "the kids need toys to play with".  
    
    Again, as with the guitar situation, this can happen.  There should be
    rules for how children can play with blocks (no throwing) and there
    should be corrective action taken if a child or multiple children throw
    the blocks repeatively. If that's no there and communi9cated, or if
    there isn't close supervision, that's the problem, not the kids, or the
    type of toys.
    
    My final comment, I agree with the past replys.  I don't think there is
    enough supervison for your son in this group setting, and possible your
    son isn't ready for the big kids the whole day.  Talk with the head
    honcho and his primary teacher from the old group and the new group. 
    See if they can't come up with some possible solutions that will make
    the situation better.  Three weeks (was it) and all thes issues is
    excessive and not normal in a transition period.  If the school is not
    willing to work with you on  this then that may be your answer, they
    don't care.  If they are concerned for your son's well being and
    transition and *your* piece of mind with your daycare choice, they
    should be receptive to working with you to do what you can to make the
    next 3 weeks be a safer place for your son.
    
     

    Since you asked....Things sound a bit "loose" there. The merry go round
    probably doesn't belong at the center let alone on concrete. I would
    expect Mass regulations would have outlawed that. 
    I'd have some questions about pinpoint anything in a child who jumped 
    off a mat. Mat's are low to the ground. What did he hit that punctured 
    him ? And, I'm sorry, does the teacher wear a ring ?
    
    Now, if it really seems like a great place and maybe your child is a
    little wobbly, insist he move back in with children at his own
    developmental level. 
    
    I'm sorry. I know you don't need to have extra worries but some places
    aren't good for kids. 

    
    
    
    
    I believe he was moved to make room for new kids in the baby room.  We
    were on vacation the last 2 weeks of August and when I took him the day
    after Labor Day, I was told by the teacher in his old room he had been
    moved.  She was surprised he was moved as where Hayley's mom (Hayley is
    2 weeks older than Connor) and some other teachers there.  I wasn't
    happy with this and after the stitches accident I told the owner I
    thought he was moved too soon.  
    
    Some more info on the stitches accident.  While I was on the way to the
    hospital, my husband called the owner and she kinda had a "he's an
    active independent kid and accidents will happen" attitude.  It bothers
    me a lot no one saw what happened.  I would not be as upset if they
    told me x pushed him into it, Connor was climbing and fell etc.  I
    don't like the jungle gym being out there--I wouldn't let him on one 
    unless I was there to catch him/help him.  The jungle gym his a wood 
    platform about 1 foot off the ground.  One side is to the swings, one side
    has a railroad tie for a step and the last two sides have slides.  There is
    still a large gap between the step and platform.  I mentioned it to the
    owner and she was going to see if something could be done but so far
    nothing has been done.  
    
    Supposedly no one has fell off the cots.  The pin point punctures looked
    more like a scrape/rug burn.  The head teacher wasn't in
    there and she couldn't tell me what happened.  At home he likes to walk
    on beds and couches (again I only let him up when I can watch him and
    kick him off if he stands up, luckily he can't climb up there yet!) and he
    might have been doing that here - again no one knows.
    
    The merry-go round is a bunch of tricycles attached together
    and they go around in a circle.  There is only one kid in Connor's room
    that can even reach the peddels.  His current teacher won't put them on
    there because she can't watch 5 of them on there at one time.  The accident
    happened when all the kids were together and he had a different teacher 
    who has since left.
    
    His teacher has said playground time is nicer now the kids are
    separated.  I'm happier because he doesn't have the older kids to watch
    and "keep up with".
    
    Doug (my husband) and I are discussing moving him.  I'm wondering if it is 
    like this at daycares and this will continue no matter where we put him 
    and it isn't worth the transition nightmare (he has been at this center 
    since I went back to work) or if this is unusual and we need to get him 
    out of there. 
    
    Karen

You asked about other daycares...

My experience at two daycares has been room
changes are sometimes "pushed" because of the
need for a space.  I have been in this situation
once before and the school allowed for a transition 
time (a week or two), where Lauren could go between 
the two rooms as she felt comfortable.  That seemed
to work fine for us.

The daycare she is in now also had a planned transition.
They were moving Lauren and her best buddy 1 week 
apart.  They also planned to let the kids make the move
as they were comfortable.  They moved Nicole, Lauren
decided to join her and those two girls never looked
back.  So much for transition...

    The daycare that my daughters are at separate the kids into smaller 
    groups: infant 4wks-15 mos, toddler I 15 mos - 24 mos, toddler II
    24 mos - 36 mos.  I think this helps prevent the younger kids from
    being overrun by the older ones. Transitions don't necessarily 
    happen at those ages automatically, it pretty much depends on
    maturity and space available.  They also have a separate play
    yard for the younger (under 3) kids, with age appropriate toys.
    
    I've also received "the call" saying that Sarah had tripped while
    playing and cut her lip on the edge of a shelf (she needed 2 
    stitches).  The teacher saw her fall, it was something that could
    have happened anywhere.  Her school is very good about explaining
    anything from a small scratch to a bruise. 
    
    /Susan 

    Nobody's mentioned bites.  My son got a lot of them the first
    few weeks in the toddler room.  I had mixed feelings about it
    He might have been over-assertive (not exactly his nature), or
    another new child moved up with the inability to express anger
    correctly.
    
    When my other son moved into the 3-year-old-room I was apprehensive,
    the play structure was very big and I didn't think he should be on
    it.  THE VERY FIRST DAY he climbed up it, jammed his elbow between
    spindles and fell, hanging by his wedged arm.  I got there JUST 
    after it happened.  We got x-rays, nothing broken, but he favored
    that arm for over a week.  I could tell it hurt.
    
    Within the week I got a letter from the President of the company
    that makes the play structure.  They had changed the design.
    The unit at daycare had been ECO-ed (indeed, there were new
    boards added) and this accident should never happen again.  I'm
    not the kind that $ue$.  I felt the situation was addressed 
    correctly.  Also, I've noticed over the years that the play
    structure continues to be ECO-ed.  (Engineering Change Order)
    I feel good about that.

    RE.12
    
    I'm all for remedying a bad product, but needing continued 
    revisions?   I should think it should have been removed.  
    Just my opinion.
    
    						cj

    RE .13
    
    There was a draw-bridge type section.  It had chains
    on the sides.  They left the chains and added
    wooden bannisters.  I thought the chains (2 levels of them)
    were enough, but something must have happened where they
    decided there was some exposure (accident report) and they
    ECO-ed it again.  It's the type of structure you see
    communities getting together and building in a newer
    playground.  

I kind of waffle on this subject. Our son (5 yrs) and daughter (19 mos) go to an
in-home daycare. We know from over 2 years there that the lady who takes care of
them is very careful and loving. She is very conservative in what she lets them
get into.

This summer, there was a little boy who was about 12 months old, an only child.
His parents started getting very paranoid about minor scrapes. Based on our
experience, I would rate the caregiver as excellent, but these parents began
questioning her about everything. There is a bruise on his arm. How did it
happen? Why didn't you prevent it? How did his finger get scraped? Why didn't
you prevent it? 

I attribute a lot of this to new-mother-syndrome, combined with concern fed from
the news. I learned from my own kids that children that age are prone to small
accidents. Between their own physical instability and having other kids around,
minor bruises and scrapes are bound to happen. Our pediatrician called it
"banana legs" when my son's legs looked like someone had been tapping out a drum
solo up and down his shins. 

Last week, my daughter made it to the top of the slide on our big swing set
while I was raking leaves. This was five feet off the ground, on skinny metal
rungs about a foot apart. I stuffed my heart back down my throat and got behind
her as she slid down. She toddled back around and climbed back up, happy as a
clam, this time with my hands following her. At this age, kids are always a step
away from disaster. The slightest thing could mean severe injury or even death,
yet they make it through largely unscathed, in ignorant bliss of the danger they
have averted. Meanwhile, we as parents go nuts from the stress. Around every
turn lurks danger, even in Barney's world, yet we cannot possibly help them
avoid each one. Sometimes I think it's a wonder they ever survive past age 2.

Our daycare lady finally had to tell the other boy's parents that she couldn't
take care of him. They said she just didn't want to get reported, and her
response was there was nothing to report. I agree. I believe she is very
attentive and concerned; she is certainly not negligent or abusive. The level of
care they were demanding would require a person to give absolutely undivided
attention to the boy. That just can't be done with more than one child to take
care of, and in reality cannot be achieved even with just one. Hopefully they
will relax a bit and realize that we all take a few lumps and come out no worse
for wear.

I don't want to trivialize the concerns in .0. It is important to be concerned,
yet maintain a realistic perspective. Trusting your child's care to someone else
is the most difficult thing you can do. Don't compromise your standards, but
make sure they are realistic. It sounds like the daycare center is flexible and
is reacting to correct things. A cynic would just say that they are trying to
avoid lawsuits, but we cannot possibly foresee everything that might be
dangerous, even when in hindsight it looks incredibly stupid. Hopefully nothing
serious happens before we recognize an unsafe situation. Take a cold hard look
at things there and ask yourself about every possible accident that could
happen, then suggest some changes to them. If these are reasonable, and the
center is reasonable and sincere, they should listen and implement the changes.
Certainly they don't want anything bad to happen.

Life is risky. Childhood is fraught with risk. We have to live with some risk,
but we can and should constantly look for ways to reduce it.

    Leaving Connor with someone is hard.  I was trying to gage if this is
    normal or not.  I would hate to change his daycare (and upset him in
    the process) for something that is normal.  
    
    We've had a long talk with the director and found out changes they
    were implementing and expressed our concerns.  So far so good.  
    
    Karen
    

Over here in the UK, the ratio for private nurseries (daycare) is 1 adult to 3 children, up to the age of 2 and a
half. Or at least that's what the ratio is in the Digital nursery. I was happy with that for my son. He's a very
lively child, and despite being in a room containing 16month olds to 2 and a half year olds, he hardly had any
scrapes. He was bitten a few times, but that's a different matter. Unfortunately, if 1:8 is Georgia law, it sounds
like the ratio will be the same whatever daycare you choose. I would not have been happy with 1:8 for my son.

As for changing daycare, I moved my son in May after he'd spent 2 and a half years in the Digital nursery. I was
worried sick. But he adapted instantly, and has made many new friends since moving. He has never been unhappy at
going there in the morning. I wouldn't worry about transition trauma - I think children are very adaptable..


Sue