Conference moira::parenting

    
    My son didn't like his preschool to much either. He had been at in-home
    daycare until he was 3.5 and then I switched him because I thought it
    would be a good experience. He behaved once he was there (and sometimes
    he didn't want to leave when I came to pick him up) but getting him
    there was another story. Every morning was a battle. He lasted about
    8 months and then between my MIL and my maternity leave he was able to
    stay home.
    
    I guess what I'm trying to say is maybe some kids do better with a more
    individual setting and more 1 on 1 care. I think it's important that
    they have playmates the same age and are learning age appropriate
    things (not just watching tv all day). I think it's a lot different if
    a child is going to preschool a couple hours a day, afew time a week
    compared to 40+ hours.
    
    I did worry if I was doing the right thing, how was Kevin going to do
    once he started kindergarten? Well he loves it. It's also only 2.5 hrs
    a day and he's with my MIL the rest of the time. We just had our first
    open house last night and the teacher said he's doing great.
    
    The thing Kevin disliked the most about preschool was that as he got a
    little older (over 4) they still had to take naps. He hated that! And
    the days that he napped he was impossible at bedtime.
    
    I know sometimes it's not practical to switch your daycare but if the
    kid is truly miserable sometime I think it's worth it.
    
                     good luck,
    
                        Barbara
    
    

    
    When Kevin started preschool this year he liked it the first days. 
    Then when it came to a full week he started crying when he was dropped
    off (the crying only lasted for two minutes after we left).  
    
    What we found out from the teachers was that he did not like it when
    they would say no to him.  So the teachers worked with him a little
    everyday and now Kevin is the happiest kid to go to school.  He enjoys
    being there with his friends (it helped because he knew two of the
    children that were in his class).
    
    			Carol

    This may be the obvious, but have you asked your daughter what the
    problem is?  
    
    We went through this with my daughter last year, even though she's been
    in the same daycare since she was 10 weeks old.  Turned out that there
    were two things.  One was another child teasing her a lot and the other
    was that she was always the last to leave from her room. 
    
    On the first, we talked with her about why the kids teased her and
    talked to the teacher about the child giving her the most grief.  On
    the second, I now just make a concerted effort to pick her up a little
    early (like 15-20 minutes) once or twice a week.
    
    I also agree that it helps if they have good friends there.  If she
    doesn't know any of the other kids in the room, you might want to try
    some Saturday play dates to help her get close to 1 or 2 of the other
    kids.
    
    Irene

    One of the reasons that I want to have my daughter cored evaluated
    is because she doesn't always seem to understand questions.  The pre-
    school teacher said she tried to ask my daughter what was wrong, why
    was she crying, and Holly said "I'm tired."  Which is a legitimate
    answer.  But other times I've asked her "why," and she just comes up
    with inappropriate answers or just doesn't answer the question at all.
    
    The other thing is, she just kind of lost it at school yesterday. 
    SHe's doing well in school, is trying very hard to use scissors, sit
    quietly, etc.  Yesterday she was working right along with the rest of
    the kids at "table time," and she just burst into tears for no apparent
    reason.  It took two teachers almost 25 minutes to calm her down.  
    
    She is also very stubborn.  Not a bad trait in and of itself --
    civilisation would never have gone anywhere, especially in science, if
    people werent' stubborn -- but we're talking *stubborn.*  THis morning,
    for example, I specifically told Holly that it was too late for her to
    watch a video.  She went downstairs with the video anyway, refused to
    give it up, and then refused to come upstairs and get dressed.  Sunday
    was the same type of thing.  We had to go to church, since I was the
    lay leader, and she just refused to get dressed.  Both of my kids are
    stubborn to begin with, but whereas my son occasionally listened to
    reason, Holly just digs in her heels.  
    
    and there's a lot of other stuff, too.  She is enrolled in a Saturday
    morning dance class, and I swear she sits for 20 minutes of the 1-hour
    lesson.  SO I don't know if it's her hearing, if she's just immature,
    or what, but I want to find out what, if anything, is wrong.
    
    HAs anyone else had experiences with core evaluations and if so, how
    did it go?
    
      
    

What exactly is a core evaluation, and what do you hope to learn from it?

Your daughter sounds a lot like my son, who just turned 4.  Last year
he was in preschool for a few mornings a week, and the transition was
difficult for him.  He had been in family daycare since he was 6 months
old.  He cried, too, when we left him, but this gradually stopped and
he adjusted much better than the teacher had anticipated.  He also would
have times during the day when he asked repeatedly when he was being
picked up from school.  This year he is in a pre-K program in a different
school, and he has done just great, right from the start.  

But he is also pretty stubborn and strong-willed at home and often resists
things passionately.  We have some sort of struggle about getting dressed,
watching a video, eating breakfast, or getting out the door almost every
morning.  Four-year-olds are still testing the limits, and they will get
away with whatever they can.  

My son also gives strange answers to questions sometimes, but I never had
the feeling he didn't understand the question.  I think that sometimes
we have unrealistic expectations of very young children.  We don't realize
that they do things differently from adults -- they listen differently, 
they respond differently, they think and feel differently.  So far, nothing
you've said about your daughter sounds alarming from a developmental standpoint.
Can you give an example of how she answers questions?  I didn't hear anything
in what you said that indicates she doesn't understand what's being said to her.

One of my big questions for you would be, "What's going on at home?"  You
already mentioned your and your husband's demanding work schedules.  Anything
else?  Certainly if your daughter is feeling neglected at home, she will act
out in disturbing ways.  She also might not necessarily tell the teacher
exactly what's going on.  Perhaps the problem is the teacher herself?
Or the way the class is run?  I was convinced that, at  least for a while,
the reason my son didn't want us to leave him was that the preschool class
he was in was completely noisy and chaotic before class actually began.  I found
it pretty unbearable myself.  

Very young children can't always pinpoint what's wrong, and they don't always
have the vocabulary to tell us.  I wouldn't assume that there's something
wrong with your child.  She sounds fine to me, even though you are disturbed
by her behavior.  She either has to get through this developmental stage
with lots of help from her parents, teachers, and caregivers, or there's
something in her home or school environment that's upsetting her.

Oh -- I had my son enrolled in two different music classes on Friday mornings,
and he, too, did not want to participate more than 50% of the time, sometimes
less.  Both teachers assured me that this is extremely common, but it was likely
that he was getting something from the class anyway.  They were both right, and
I can see this now even though it really disturbed and embarrassed me at the
time.  He almost always wanted to go to the class, but he didn't want to move
a muscle once he was there.  But he remembers so much about both classes, and
he does so with enjoyment -- I was amazed!  I sometimes think he's not so wild
about group settings and likes more intimate interactions. Who knows?

Good luck to you.

--Merle

    
    It's been a while, but isn't 4 that time of "learning power" .... that
    THEY desparately want to be in control of their lives and situations
    and surroundings, and refuse to feel 'controlled' by anyone else? 
    Who's in control here?  Is it at all questionable??  That seems to be
    where problems have cropped up most with mine - the "gray areas".  When
    the older 2 used to go to karate, I always told them "You WILL go - you
    know you have a blast when you go, and you love what you learn". 
    They'd balk a little bit, but when it came time to get ready, they did,
    and on it went.  
    
    Their dad more or less told them "Well, if you want to go you can, and
    it would disappoint me if you didn't, but it's your decision", and he'd
    get hell from them, whining "I don't want to" "I want to" and back and 
    forth until it made him nuts.  Sometimes they'd go an not participate,
    but usually once they got there, they WANTED to participate.  
    
    I think that they didn't WANT to have the control over this particular
    thing, and it felt uncomfortable to them to say "Okay let's go!"
    especially cold sat mornings when they'd rather watch TV.  Letting them
    NOT choose to go or not, seemed to relieve some of their stress about
    it all - decision making is stressful, even if it's two positive things
    to decide between.
    
    And if I remember right, 4 is about the age when they want to have SOME
    control over their world, will happily fight you for ALL the control,
    and are much happier when you retain a lot of the control.  You have to 
    sort of "dole it out" depending on what your child can handle, and
    watching closely for signs from them.  If the boundaries feel too far
    away, they'll act out.  But if they're too close, they act the same....
    
    Parenting - it's all magic and the luck of the draw! (-;

    When my daughter went through a similar phase, what really did the
    trick for us was for me to make a change in my work schedule so she had
    more time with me.  I know that is not always possible, or if possible,
    not easy, but you may want to give it some thought.
    
    I never really found out what was bothering her, but it came out in
    stomach aches.  I learned that she is a kid who can store her stress
    there.  What stress?  We never found anything we could point at - we
    were all groovy at home, preschool was plenty of fun.  I think she just
    needed more 1950's style time home with mom.  In this case, she only
    got one extra afternoon, but it seemed to be just the ticket for her. 
    I think she needed someone to respond to her need, even if not much
    changed.
    
    Is there any way you can shorten your daughter's day?  You mentioned that 
    you can't make her bedtime earlier because the evening is already
    tight for time - can that change on the other end, and get her home
    earlier?  Do you have any opportunity to flex your work hours? 
    
    And maybe this won't help at all, but it may be worth a try.
    
    Good luck!
    
    Jane                                      

    My 4 year old had a hard time adjusting to a full day of day care. When
    she was younger, every pick up involved a teacher recounting an
    incident. 
    
    What I have found is that she is over stimulated and has a hard time
    settling herself at nap time. Talk to the teachers about whether she is
    sleeping at nap time and, if not, what can be done to help her get
    settled.
    
    I go along with doing what you can to alter her schedule at school.
    Maybe another Mom, whom you know and trust, can get to her a few hours
    earlier than you can...even just a few days a week. Maybe you can get
    out a little early a couple of days a week. I think it helped my
    daughter to be in a less stimulating environment for part of the day.
    
    This change may not have to be permanent; she may just need some help
    as she adjusts and matures a little. You know your child best.
    
    RE: Core Evaluations, just call your school department, indicate why
    you want the core, and ask...very specifically...what disciplines will
    be involved in the evaluation. You want a complete eval...not the
    little screening they do. I'm still thinking about going to Children's
    hospital for a second as I don't think the school system offers the
    best..they are looking for obvious issues that point to Special
    Ed..whereas Children's does an overall developmental profile.
    
    In either case, the eval consists of folks asking you a few questions
    and engaging your daughter in what seem like games to evaluate her
    ability. Don't be afraid of it. It's really simple. I think my daughter
    enjoyed the eval at 3 1/2. You'll probably get some on the spot
    informal feedback and then a written report.
    
    My daughter (who is very energetic, persistent, hypersensitive, and
    wonderful) has needed a bit of help along the way. The eval's which
    started in infancy really helped me to help her...to know what to work
    on with her and how (some of it comes without my doing anything).
    
    My daughter just takes a little longer to integrate it all but she
    learns well and is doing great. 
    
    Again, you know her best. If she needs help with schedule or with early
    intervention, she is relying on you to arrange it for her.
                                    

My daughter's dance class (for 3-4 year olds) is 1/2 hour long.
The 4-5 year old class is also 1/2 hour long.  My guess is a full
hour of dance for this age is just too long.  This could be
verified by calling a few other studios and comparing their programs. 

I know when my other daughter was 3-4 years old her dance class
was 1 hour long but it was 1/2 hour ballet, then 1/2 hour tap, with
a break in between to change shoes, talk, etc.  Sometimes the teacher
even broke it up a little more by putting down mats and letting them
do some tumbling sorts of things.  I think the change of pace kept them 
interested.

There are some preschool music/dance movement programs available where
the parent participates with the child.  Perhaps your daughter would enjoy 
something she does together with you for this year, maybe doing dance next year.  
Indian Hill Arts in Littleton has such a program as well as a lot of community 
programs I've seen around.  Calling your local music schools, colleges, 
community centers, library should provide you with info on programs in your 
area.

Best of luck,

--Beth.

    I don't think taking your daughter out of dance classes would
    help much if at all.  It sounds as if her "problems" are more
    related to her own personality at this stage of her life than
    truly with anything physical, like a lack of sleep or rest, or
    anything emotional.  If the dance is her only extra-curricular 
    activity, then the variety, especially as it's an activity that 
    you're able to attend, is probably good for her.  If you take 
    her out of that then she may just want to be only at home all 
    the more.
    
    My youngest, Kevin, now age 5 (is that three K or pre-K  Kevins
    in just this note?) is the only of my three children who has had
    to spend extensive time in preschool/daycare (now approximately 25 
    hours/week) and I'm fortunate that he loves it, likes being with 
    his friends.  As most of the rest of his time is spent with his
    older sisters and we don't have any neighbors from the same 
    age-group, this is his time to be with and play with "the boys".  
    I'm convinced that this balance, even as many as 30 hours/week, is
    better than spending _all_ of the time at home alone with a parent
    (of course I'm very satisfied with the school itself and have 
    great confidence in the woman who runs it, and there's no 
    substitute for peace of mind).
    
    From time to time there has been a problem with wanting to go in 
    the morning, so I've just had to "talk it up", pushing the positives
    of the activities that go on there, but that's about it.  What more
    can you really do when there's no other problem than a growing
    phase?  I'd say you're permitted to be tired (aren't we all) but 
    not feel guilty! ;-)
    
    
    Glenn W.