Conference moira::parenting

    
    My sister teaches in Franklin.  Last year there was some 
    talk of starting a charter school there.
    
    You may want to try calling the Town Hall???
    
    But the next time I talk to my sister I'll ask her for 
    more information.
    
    Good Luck!                                  

    
    In addition to input here from parents, you could start with the
    Executive Office of Education- #727-1313. They can send you Charter
    School District Profiles, which will include among other pieces of
    info. contact names and numbers of personnel for those Charter
    schools you might like to explore.
      

    There is a charter school in Western Mass in Williamsburg,	
    just West of Northampton.  I could put you in contact
    with families that go there.  There were about 4 others for various
    towns that did not recieve a charter.  this is the only one
    I know of near me.
    bob

    
    One in Marblehead and one in Lawrance, that I know of.
    
    Eva

    There is one in Franklin.  I don't have any additional
    information though.
    
    		Linda

    there's also one in Ayer, at Ft. Devens.  right now it's only 7th and
    8th grade, will expand each year  thru 12th.  they require parent
    participation -- tough when you work.  don't know too much more yet,
    but will be looking into it soon.

    the charter school near us also is only 7th and 8th.  Wonder
    if that is common?  Wonder why?  Something about those ages?

    Its only 4 days a week (but longer days) and I think that parents
    have to volunteer time.  Kids come from all over and the parents
    have to drive (lots of car pools).
    bob

    I mis-spoke about the school in Williamburg.  It is not limited
    to 7th and 8th....our local paper has a small article
    that says they currently have openings in K-4th grade.  Visitation
    is Thursday morning, call ahead when coming or details at 268-3421.

    The school is called Hilltwon Cooperative Charter School.

    
    pardon my ignorance, but exactly what is a "Charter School"?????
    
    

>    pardon my ignorance, but exactly what is a "Charter School"?????
    
Charter Schools (as the term is meant here) are public schools
that are privately run, 'chartered' through the new Ed Reform
plan that passed last year.  About 25 charters were granted so far.
They are 'alternatives' to the public education system and need to have
some 'special' aspect to their educational approach (they are not
supposed to be just a bunch of people who dont like public school).
They were created as experimental models that might try out some
new ideas that could be brought into public schools if they work.

They are funded in the same way that 'school choice' is funded in Mass.
The charter school essentially sends a bill for the tuition to the
school that they kids came from, and there are limits on the amount
of the tuition ($5K I think).  I'm not sure of the exact 'admissions'
procedure, but they are supposed to be pretty open to anyone who
applies.  I dont think (for example) they are allowed to have an
admissions test to just let in the 'smart' kids.    

There are a lot of problems with the funding mechanism for charter
schools.  for example..if a kid starts at a charter school, his sending
town is liable for the tuition (comes right off the top of the school
budget).  however if after a few weeks he changes his mind and goes back
to public school, they town is still required to pay the tuition.  the
loss of tuition is a great burden for the sending school.  Our neighboring
town lost 4 kids to the local charter school.....20K right out of their
budget.  Their costs are not lowered at all by losing the 4 kids, so
the money comes right out of the services that can be provided to the whole
rest of the school.  A few most kids and they would probably have to
fire a teacher.  The state did provide some aid for this year to help
towns that lose kids to charter schools.

Charter schools are private schools funded by public money.
bob

>    pardon my ignorance, but exactly what is a "Charter School"?????

    One more comment on Charter Schools.

    A family in our town is considering enrolling their 3 kids
    in the nearby Charter school.  This year it might not
    cost the town anything since the state has passed a bill to
    reimburse 100% the cost to the towns for the charter schools
    if the towns are spending below the amount the state expects
    for a reasonable education (and our town is below it).

    Our town spends about $3500 per pupil for elementary education.
    The local charter school charges $6000 per pupil.

    What irks me the most is that so few people understand the impact
    that sending their kids to these charter schools has on their
    local town's school.  If this family sends their kids it will cost our
    school $18K.  About half a teacher.  This is the entire art budget.

    Our town is not permitted by law from raising its tax rate more than
    the amount allowed under Prop 2 1/2 and the cost to run the schools
    is about 1/2 the tax rate.  So the schools have a great restriction
    on their budgets.  Many people think this is great.  But there
    are no such restrictions on the budgets of the charter schools and
    they can charge MUCH more at the sacrifice of the rest of the
    kids left in the public school.

    I called the local charter school to ask what their charges were,
    and I got connected to a volunteer parent who hadn't a clue what
    the cost to their local school was....she just said 'Oh, its FREE.
    This is PUBLIC EDUCATION!'.  Yeah, right.
    bob

    I do understand what you're saying, Bob. And I think it is valid
    concern.
    
    Personally, I would like to see the public schools get what they need
    to provide a quality education to all students. And I am active in my
    support of this.
    
    Still, as a parent I cannot imagine leaving my child in a school that I
    felt would provide a lesser education out of a sense of solidarity.
    
      Annie

>    Still, as a parent I cannot imagine leaving my child in a school that I
>    felt would provide a lesser education out of a sense of solidarity.

    the usual reasons that people have for putting their kids in
    a different school have little to do with 'education'.

    This charter school is booked solid for Kindergarten because
    it has a full day kindergarten.  The local public schools all
    only have 1/2 day with extended day programs that the parents
    have to pay extra for.

    A very big motivator for moving kids under school choice is to
    put your kid at a school with a better athletic program.
    bob

    You might be interested in getting some info on the schools which have
    been granted charters in Mass. You might be surprised at the number
    serving at risk and inner city populations. Try an Internet search.
    
    It's time to stop white flight from city and suburban public shools and 
    encourage parents to build the kind of school they want for their
    children. In my case, that does mean full day programs k-12, more
    parent involvement, smaller class size, more individual learning, a
    recognition that the child wants to learn, and a philosophy of
    education that goes back to the root of the word...it is a leading out
    from the child what is in the child.
    
    As a graduate of inner city public schools, I'd argue that a lot of
    what passes for public schools in the burbs is a private school funded
    by local property taxes in towns where zoning laws keep out folk who
    earn less money.
    
    If your local schools need more money...go override 2 1/2.
    
    If you want to change my base note from a simple request for info
    into a discussion of public funding, let's start with the basics. 
     

>                      <<< Note 1026.14 by STOWOA::SPERA >>>
>                           -< ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT >-

    I assume you mean that there is room for improvement in public schools?
    Sure....doubt you could find anyone who would argue that.  Not me.

    The question (to me) is whether there is a good reason for a small
    group of kids who could receive a perfectly good education at their
    local public school to attend a private (charter) school at their
    town's expense...and at generally far greater expense than all the
    rest of the kids who still attend the public school.

    The state has mandated this type of service for kids who CANNOT
    get a decent education at their local school without special
    treatment...Special Education kids.  A very small number of SPED
    kids even go to school at special schools for SPED kids (at
    astronomical expense).  Charter Schools sort of extend this to
    kids dont REALLY need it.

>    It's time to stop white flight from city and suburban public shools and 
>    encourage parents to build the kind of school they want for their
>    children. In my case, that does mean full day programs k-12, more
>    parent involvement, smaller class size, more individual learning, a
>    recognition that the child wants to learn, and a philosophy of
>    education that goes back to the root of the word...it is a leading out
>    from the child what is in the child.
    
    Parents are very welcome to build any sort of school they want.
    Home schooling is quite popular.  But should parents do this at
    the expense of the rest of the kids in their town?  All of the things
    you mention cost a lot of money.  Who should be paying for that?

>    As a graduate of inner city public schools, I'd argue that a lot of
>    what passes for public schools in the burbs is a private school funded
>    by local property taxes in towns where zoning laws keep out folk who
>    earn less money.
    
    In many of the burbs although its hard to buy a house it is NOT
    hard to rent.  By renting in the town, the town is required by law
    to educate your children.

    Life is very unfair in that some people have more money than others.
    And this gives them access to a LOT of things that the less fortunate
    are denied.  Fancy summer camps.  Home computers.  Private tutoring.
    The very rich get big name private schools and the less rich
    only get homes in 'well off' towns that are very willing to fund
    the very best in public education.  And the poor usually get less
    of everything including quality education.  We lower the disparity
    somewhat with state assistance to the poorer towns and big cities.
    But I dont see the state's job as making life completely equal.

    And I dont support charter schools that allow you to charge your
    town for your kids private education.

>    If your local schools need more money...go override 2 1/2.
    
    Some years we have been able to override 2 1/2.  It is very difficult
    to do.  We would get no support trying to override 2 1/2 for
    relative luxuries like full day K-12.  Parents who want full day
    coverage are expected to pay for it themselves.

    The less well off receive less in the way of education because it the
    property tax is the main funding conduit and zoning laws have kept
    multi family units out of lots of towns.
    
    The charter schools serving populations who are at risk for drop out
    are doing what "public schools" are supposed to do. Parents are taking
    back the money they've been giving to localities to get more control
    over the way it is spent. 
    
    And, with the law limiting charter school funding to less than 1 percent 
    of the school budget, charter schools are hardly in a position to bankrupt
    the system.

>    The less well off receive less in the way of education because it the
>    property tax is the main funding conduit 

    So we should all be working to change this.  Often people dont want
    to lose the local control that comes with local funding.

>    and zoning laws have kept
>    multi family units out of lots of towns.

    Personally I would rather not confuse this discussion with zoning.
    I agree that 'snob zoning' exists but also there are laws requiring
    towns to allow low income housing.

>    The charter schools serving populations who are at risk for drop out
>    are doing what "public schools" are supposed to do. Parents are taking
>    back the money they've been giving to localities to get more control
>    over the way it is spent. 

    I disagree that everyone threatening to pull their kids needs
    to be satisfied in some way.  And parents are not 'taking back the
    money they give'.  They are taking back MANY TIMES what they give.
    They want to take back their tax $$ and those of many other tax payers.
    At least I know few tax payers who pay $6K times their number
    of kids.

    If you want control over how it is spent, join your local school
    committee or the new parent's councils.
    
>    And, with the law limiting charter school funding to less than 1 percent 
>    of the school budget, charter schools are hardly in a position to bankrupt
>    the system.

    But when a local school loses a few kids to a local charter school
    at twice the 'per student' cost, it can have a very devastating effect.
    Most of the people I've talked to who have kids in charter schools
    actually feel quite guilty about it.  They just feel that the
    state allows them to abuse the system so they are doing it.

    I'd like to talk to your guilty friends about their experience with the
    schools as I am trying to collect info on how they are going. Please
    ask them if you can share their phone numbers off line.
    
    What state are they in ? What schools ?

    I'll ask them.

    One more interesting note on Charter Schools.  When the family
    in town mentioned that they were thinking of entolling their
    kids (who are currently home schooled) to the charter school,
    I called our regional school's accountant to ask how the funding
    for Charter School works this year.  He told me an interesting
    story.

    The paper had reported that 5 students from one of our regional 
    town's were going to the charter school and the selectmen
    had been sent a tuition bill by the charter school.  The local
    town had no knowledge of the kids and could not locate them in the
    town, so they tried to contact them at the school.  They could
    not locate them there either.  Yet the town is required to pay
    the bill.  This year the state is fully reimbursing the towns
    for the costs of the charter schools (that means its coming out
    of all of our state tax's), so the town is just paying and
    hoping the state comes through.  The school appears to be collecting
    about $6K each for 5 students that dont exist.