Conference moira::parenting

   Not much help, maybe, but some thoughts...
   
   First, don't worry about what the doctor's office says about where the
   little guy sleeps.  The whole concept of a "family bed" is one of
   those issues that tends to polarize folks - either they think it works
   great, or they can't understand why rational people would even
   consider it at all. 
   
   [ Yes, I realize that this is a grand generalization, but this is
     mostly what I've seen from folks myself... ]
   
   When it all shakes out, you do what you and your spouse believe is
   best for your family ... if that means that the kids sleep with you
   occasionally when they're sick, well, that's your decision, not the
   doctors'.

   
   You might want to ask (or check out) about something called Delsym
   (sp?).   I have not idea whether it will work in your situation, but
   it has worked for us as a cough suppresant.  It doesn't appear to have
   the advertising clout that something like Dimatap has, but it has
   helped us when other stuff failed.
   
   Something that just occured to me... is it possible for you both to
   switch off with Cody?  That is, one night you take your turn with him
   and let your spouse try to sleep, and the next night you try to sleep
   and your spouse gets "toddler duty".
   
   One other thought... at least try to eat well and stay well hydrated.
   In the absence of enough sleep, good nutrition is about all you have
   left to help you stay healthier.   That and a decent sense of humor...
   
   Good luck... this too shall pass...
   
   - Tom (apprentice "power-napper" and good at sleeping almost anywhere)

   btw, Mods, isn't there a note on sleep problems that this could be
   migrated to?
   

    Many OTC cough preparations contain
    
    	1) Antihistamine
    	2) Decongestant
        3) Cough Supressant
    
    or some combination of the above.
    
    The two types of decongestant (pseudoephedrine - the active ingredient
    in Sudafed (tm) or phenypropanolamine - the decongestant in Dimetapp
    (tm)) are stimulants ... no two ways about it ... they cause an
    increase in blood pressure and dilate blood vessels, increasing blood
    flow to the brain.  No wonder people can become wired with this.  After
    4pm, I refuse to use any preparation with a decongestant.
    
    Most antihistamines, especially those used in cough preparations, will
    cause drowsiness, (these include Benadryl, chlorpheniramine
    (Clor-tripelon (tm)), brompheniramine, to name but a few) ... but some
    have an antagonistic reaction, and will "wire" a few people.  (Actifed
    does it to me if I take too much - but less than the recommended dose).
    
    There is one common cough supressant ... DM (Dextramethorphan
    Hydrobromide) and two prescription DH and Codeine.  DM is usually
    effective ... and Delsym (tm) seems to be a particularly effective
    formulation.
    
    Some cough syrups contain colourings, like reds and yellows which are
    suspected to cause that "wired" effect, especially in children.
    
    Also, in a lot of brand name syrups, and store-brand look alikes for
    brands without alcohol, you may fine alcohol, which may also "wire"
    your child.
    
    And last, in some syrups, there is an expectorant ... typically
    guafenesin, which will tend to loosen phlegm ... while the other
    ingredients try to dry phlegm up.  On the recommendation of a Dr. many
    years ago, I now avoid any syrup with guafenesin, because of the
    conflict of action, and also, because where it usually loosens up the
    remaining phlegm is right at the back of the throat, where it tickles
    most and makes you want to cough!!!
    
    So, what we have done, is, rather than buy "combination" syrups when
    there are problems, particularly for the young kids, is to buy
    Delsym(tm) and an Antihistamine syrup ... like Benadryl (tm) which, by
    the way is normally a very good sleep inducer (it is the active
    ingredient in many OTC sleep aids ... Benadryl capsules ... especially
    generics, are much cheaper btw!) or Claritin syrup (available by
    prescription) non-drowsy for daytime use.
    
    Then if you really need a decongestant, try one ... but make sure it
    only contains Pseudoephedrine, or phenylpropanolamine as the active
    ingredient.  The British Pharmacology (the equivalent of the US
    Physicians Desk Reference ... the drug bible) suggests that
    decongestants are not of proven value in the treatment of coughs and
    colds, and are largely ineffective.
    
    Beware of the so called ND or Non-drowsy formulas ... they usually
    contain only a decongestant.
    
    Tavist-1(tm) is a non-drowsy OTC antihistamine.  Tavist-D(tm) contains
    decongestant.
    
    Hope this info is useful ... sorry it is so long ... but it gave us the
    formula for better sleep at night ... for the kids and us!!!!!
    
    Stuart

    Thank you folks - especially .2 for your lenghtly, buit enlightening
    reply. I am extremely allergic to Benedryl but have used Caladryl on
    Cody without any bad effects - allergies I presume are not inherited -
    is this so? 
    
    Sounds like that Benedryl and the Demrly (or whatever it was) are the 
    solutions. guess my neighbors will inherit the Dimatapp and Robitussins 
    they, the nurse and the pharmacies so highly recommened.
    
    Here's to maybe getting some shut eye for more tghan 15 mins!

    one other point - have you tried raising the head/upper torso when
    the child goes to bed ?  when my son was younger (and even now, but
    he's almost 11 and does it on his own), I found if I have him sleeping
    in a more-upright position, it helps at least minimize the coughing...

    just a thought,
    Debbi

    Allergies are often inherited.
    
    Curious that you are allergic to Benadryl ... and no problem with
    Caladryl.  Have you had that checked to determine whether it is the
    active ingredient (diphenhydramine) or whether it is the carrier
    (the liquid ... which often contain colourings and other "non-active"
    ingredients that people are allergic to!)
    
    Ask your pharmacist or Dr about other liquid anti-histamines, other
    than Benadryl ... unless your kiddy can take pills, then probably the
    most easily available antihistamine is Clor-trimeton (Chlor-tripolon in
    Canada) ... if there is a reaction.
    
    The Delsym is pleasant to take ... tastes orangy but beware it does
    have a curious grainy texture.  This is the time release medication ...
    
    Good luck ...
    
    Stuart

    Cody has slept on pillows since first ear infection at 6 months (by the
    way for skeptics, he slepy on sheep skins for the first 2 yrs of his
    life, too.)
    
    A amd extrmely reactive to Caladryl - my skin rises up into welting
    rashes withing 15 mins. My son was not reactive to Caladryl. Our
    pediatrician says not to be concerned with giving Benedryl to my
    son...I'm a tad hesitant.. will give it a shot since the Caladryl went
    all right.
    
    - 

    Oh ... btw ... the Robitussins and Dimetapps etc. may well work very
    well for some people and not for others ... they may work well for
    one cough / cold and not for another.
    
    Curiously, if you go and look at the active ingredients in so many cold
    and cough preparations, you will find that there are remarkable
    similarities amongst different brands, and some brands with the same
    apparent formulation seem to work better than others ... Why ?  There
    are some reasons like release rate and carrier ... but it seems like
    pot luck ... 
    
    So, just because a recommended syrup doesn't work for your kiddy for
    this cold / cough doesn't mean it won't work perfectly for the next
    one!  There are times when Delsym and an antihistamine will not work
    for us ... then it's a trip to the Dr. asking for a DH syrup or a
    codeine syrup!  Sleep helps the body repair itself ... and a coughing
    kiddy does not sleep well!  So unless the cough is very productive,
    (produces lots and lots of phlegm), I think something to assist sleep
    is more important than anything!
    
    Stuart

    
    Also, I believe there's a topic in here called 
    "Sleep problems, there's and your's".
    
    I've been in that topic MANY times.
    
    I don't think I've gotten a good nite's sleep since early 1991,
    between being pregnant and getting up in the middle of the
    nite with toddlers ;-)  But I've heard ,'this too shall pass'!
    
    Best of luck for a good nite's sleep!
    Chris

    
    It's note 27 (408 replies!!).
    
    /c

    
    My doctor had also recommended Benedryl for teething when my son had
    particularly difficult times with teething.  I also use it or a generic
    for his allergy symptoms and head colds.
    
    
    Kathy

Since the emphasis of this topic is on handling the cough, I'll leave it here
rather than moving it to "Sleep Problems", but I've changed the title from "SOS
- we 3 need zzzz's" to "Nighttime cough medicine".

	Neil Faiman, PARENTING co-moderator

    
    I'm surprised that the dr. wasn't concerned with the cough.
    
    Anyways, which always works great for my daughter (she is 22 months) is
    the cough medicine called "Nite Lite" and I can't remember who makes
    it, but its the purple one.  They have different colors for different
    symptoms.  Their yellow cough syrup is for the day.
    
    When Alyssa has a cold with a terrible cough her dr. always said for to
    cut down on drinking milk.  I guess milk thickens those glands, or
    thats what I think it does.
    
    Anyways, just adding my .02.
    
    

    Nite Lite is Triaminic.  I know Angeline HATES the yellow, day
    time one.  But I've been told the kids like the purple.
    
    				cj *->

    Stuart - my hero!!!
    
    Delsym and Benedryl - ahhhhhhhhhhh.
    
    It took Cody 2 hrs to finally go to sleep (in a pool of sweat though, mind
    you). He only coughed twice before settling in for the night and slept
    straight through as did his mom and dad.
    
    I usually think cough medicines are a waste of $$$ but I had one of
    those dry, tickling, annoying coughs coming in this morning and I took
    2 tsp. and within 20 mins I stopped coughing all together.
    
    Thanks for the first of (hopefully) many more sleep filled nights.
    
    Cody still has a wretched cough but it sounds like it's breaking up.
    Like everything else - it takes time.
    
    Bless you, Stuart ---by the way, the local pharmacist was impressed
    with what you had told me and thought the combination of medicines to be
    the smartest choice. He even gave me the dye-free Benedryl stating what
    you already had about the colorings and children. 

    Good news!
    
    The other good thing about using them all separately is you can adjust
    the timing and size of the doses as needed (within the suggested doses
    or on the pharmacist / dr's recommendation).
    
    e.g.  The DELSYM is supposedly 12 hours ... but we may give another
    dose after about 9 to 10 hours, depending on age, weight etc.  The
    doses on the bottle are "norms" ... a good pharmacist will tell you
    what you can really give because they often have more info.
    
    Stuart

    Although a late entry, I second, third and fourth the Delsym.  Takes
    about an hour to work on my 4 year old, but is incredible  at
    minimizing cough.  Thanks to my pediatrician who recommended it.
    
    

    Another vote for Delsym...most cough medicines upset my stomach
    something terrible, but I've never had a reaction to Delsym.
    
    The other thing is, I would make sure that Cody is well-hydrated
    all day long, as it is SOOOO hot and humid...be sure he drinks
    plenty of water and juice.  
    
    Good luck, I'm glad things are reverting back to normal!!

    Hydrated? you say... Cody the Fountain sleeps with his little  Safety
    1ST canteen (with the pull up top such as on a dishwashing liquid
    bottle - if you have little kids - this is a must. Has a belt clip
    perfect for strollers back packs, etc) Fluids is by no means a problem - 
    thanks....
    
    Best thing about all of this - he lets me rock him and stroke his back
    and limbs again until he falls asleep. Gosh I miss thosse gentle things
    I got to do when he was an infant!
    

    Just a quick one, I use the Generic store brands almost exclusively,
    for anything available.  Benydryl in name is expensive, but look for
    the store brand in the Pink bottle you may have saved at least a couple
    bucks on the stuff.  FYI, Walmarts "Equate" brands seem to be the best
    prices I've found.
    
    In a desperate moment when AJ was about that age, I called the pedi
    with the "Help I've tried everything and he can't stop coughing"! She
    called in a generic of robitussin with codien, and we had a good
    night's sleep that night.  Thank heavens, it's a drastic move, but I
    was a desperate mother!  
    
    Just as an aside, the pollen count has been "high", the humidity as
    well, as the mother of an astmatic I've have been walking a tightrope
    praying these two factors won't trigger an attack!
    
    Glad you finally go some zzzz's!
    Lyn

    My pedi sometimes suggests 1/2 again the recommended dose in cases of
    stubborn coughs.  Not generally, but if his health is suffering from
    not enough rest, she weighs the lesser of two evils and tells me to up
    the dose, sometimes to double it.  We also swear by Delsym for the
    whole family.  
    Sarah

    Is Delsym safe for children with asthma?  My son has an awful cold and
    we were told not to give him Dimetapp (antihistamines).  I guess it is
    suppose to dry them up too much.  This is a new Pedi ... the first told
    us Dimetapp was ok :-)  My husband took him to the Dr.s today and they
    said the cold is triggering the asthma.  He's taking ventolin through a
    nebulizer to ease the breathing.  But I was looking for something to
    help the cold symptoms (running nose, pleghm, and cough).
    
    Any one have experience with this combo?
    
    Thanks.
    
    Joyce
    
    
    

    
    I don't know what to tell you.
    
    Are you seeing a specialist for the Asthma? If so, contact him.
    We see a pediatric pumolanary specialist out of UMASS for Nicholas's
    Asthma, and when we have questions about meds to give him, we call
    UMASS (don't want to take any chances).
    
    We have given him Dimetapp (while on the Ventolin and Albuterol), along
    w/Pedia-Care night time.
    
    Anne Marie

   re: .21 - Delsym...
   
   Well, we've used it, I believe, but every child is different, and what
   works for my 6yr old may not be OK for your child...

   Definately go with the expert - we had a pedi whose subspeciality was
   asthma and other related conditions, and that was great.  Now that
   they've left the area, we need to be real sure what we are asking, and
   to whom.  Asthma covers such a broad spectrum of situations and
   triggers and reactions that probably you really need to get your
   advise from someone who has studied asthma specifically.

   - Tom

Just a reminder...

PARENTING is not a substitute for real medical advice.  We can tell you our own
experience; we can tell you what we've read, or been told; but no one here is
qualified to answer questions like "is X safe?" (and if anyone were qualified,
liability considerations would probably keep them from giving such advice sight
unseen in a notesfile anyways).

	-Neil Faiman, PARENTING co-moderator

    
    Has anyone found Deslym lately in the Massachusetts area?  I went to
    Brookes Pharmacy in Townsend and they didn't have any.  Then I
    remembered the last bottle I got was at Littleton CVS but when I didn't
    see any there, I talked to our Pharmacist who told me that its not
    going to be available anymore over the counter!
    
    He explained that because its a time release medicine that its very
    hard to make and its been backordered so much in all the pharmacies
    that they just aren't going to carry it anymore.  He did say that you
    could get through prescription from your doctor however.
    
    I was really put off by this.  Finally a good medicine and they make
    prescription only?  Usually, you find it the other way around (look at
    motrin which used to be only prescription and now its over the
    counter).
    
    My son Paul who is 3 1/2 was diagnosed with a mild case of asthma last
    year.  He was given a nebulator inhaler but I have really not used it
    because I hate the idea of giving him steriods.  His coughing only
    comes two times a year; just before Winter and just before Spring.
    Lately, nothing has helped, even the inhaler.  The dr. gave him
    Robitussin A/C (with codiene) and even that didn't help!  We use a
    humidifier, prop him up, cut out all milk, etc. etc. etc.  I don't know
    what to do!  
    
    HELP!
    cj
    

    cj,
    
    Have you tried taking him outside when the coughing starts?  That has
    worked for me on the latest bronchial disaster that has been running
    through the schools.  
    
    meg

    RE: .25
    
    OH NO!  Really?
    
    I was told by Osco Pharmacy in North Andover, MA that it was backordered
    too, but not that it would not be available over-the-counter anymore.
    
    Truly, it's the only non-prescription cough medicine that really works
    and I too am put off that it will be by prescription only.
    
    Say it isn't so.
    
    Tara
    

It doesn't sound to me like the FDA has made it prescription-only, but that
CVS has a small stock, so they make it available only if you have a
prescription for it.  It's possible (though unusual) for a doctor to
prescribe over-the-counter medicines -- even aspirin.  I suspect most
HMOs and prescription plans won't pay for OTC stuff that's prescribed.

    I assume you're in Ma, CJ, but I think I saw some (2 bottles) at the
    Hitchcock clinic West in Nashua a couple of nights ago.  603-577-4455,
    give them a call.  I was going to buy a bottle but they had put the
    price tag over the expiration date, I hate it when they do that.
    
    sandy

    Yesterday I was at CVS in Westford, Ma looking for Delsym.
    Not on the shelf.  So I asked the pharmacist.  They had it behind
    the counter, but I didn't need a prescription, just had to know
    to ask.  They said if they put it on the shelf, it just disappeared
    immediately, so they keep a small stock for people who ask.  I
    don't know if they will continue doing this long-term, I think I
    got the last bottle.
    
    Janice

Delsym is very popular in Canada ... along with its sister medication Corsym.

Corsym is a 12 hour antihistamine/decogestant that seems more effective
than most cold medicines ... in spite of the fact that they are all essentially
the same stuff!  The 12 hour slow release polistrex formulation seems
particularly effective.  Alas, it is not available in the USA ... even by
prescription.  Real easy to take, and the kids like the creamy raspberry (or
is it strawberry (or is it cherry (it all tastes pink to me!))) flavour.

I'm surprised at the shortages ... it was readily on the shelves in Canada.

DM has become a recent target for substance abuse ... so maybe it is something 
to do with this ?

Stuart

I was in the Clinic Pharmacy at Hitchcock West Clinic this weekend.  They had
12 bottles sitting on the counter.

Irene

    I located some Deslym at the Acton CVS FWIW
    
    cj

    I found Delysm at Walmart.  (I can't remember if it was the one in
    Hudson or West Boylston)
    
    Nancy
    

    re: Deslym, Delysm
    
    Are these anything like Caco Calo? :-)
    

>>    re: Deslym, Delysm
>>    
>>    Are these anything like Caco Calo? :-)

I'm afraid you were mysleD ...