Conference moira::parenting

    I would move any dangerous objects, chairs, tables etc out of the way
    so that the child is not injured if he/she convulses.  I would also
    time the seizure (they rarely last very long).   I would also take 
    a look at complexsion, movements etc (this is good information to
    give the doctor).
    
    After the seizure, I would observe the child for any after-effects.
    I would also take a look at the pupils of the eyes (if they are
    different sized this could indicate brain damage or anomolies).
    
    I would then give the child a big hug.  
    
    I am not a doctor.  This would be an excellent question to ask your
    pediatrician.
    
    nmp 
    

    OK I *am* an EMT, I have been called many times by parents whose
    children have had *febrile* seizures.  These are NOT in any way related
    to Epileptic seizure, by the way.  
    
    The child is having a seizure more as a reaction to a high fever. 
    Remember young children, under 2, can handle high fevers a whole lot
    better than an older child or adult.  105+ in a 1 or 2 year old is
    very much different than 105 in a school age child or adult. 
    BUT...back to the subject at hand.   The general rules for seizures
    still apply here, but one thing that seems to be instinctive to a
    parent is to bundle the child up when he/she doesn't feel well. 
    DON'T!!  the first thing we do is strip the child down to the diaper. 
    In some instances I have put cold packs in "strategic" places, i.e.
    groin, armpits, the back of the neck.  Yes the child will cry and
    scream, probably act afraid and hate you, but do understand this is for
    the child's own good.  It looks horrible, and the parents often suffer
    more than the kiddos, but the idea is to bring the fever down.  
    
    If the child thrashes around during a seizure remove any thing they
    might bang into, DO NOT RESTRAIN the child in any way, do not force
    anything into the child's mouth, after the seizure has slowed down make
    sure the child is breathing, and has a good air exchange, initiate
    "rescue breathing" if the child isn't breathing, the first thing you
    really should do is to call your local emergency services (9-1-1 or
    whatever number you use in your community)  The child should definitely
    be seen by a doctor if a febrile seizure has occured.  In many cases
    only a doctor can determine if it really was a febrile or epileptic
    seizure.
    
    Not to scare you, but these are not to be taken lightly, this is NOT
    TV, the child is not going to just wake up and be perfectly normal. 
    Most often the child will be sluggish and lethargic following a
    seizure, will frequently loose control of the bowels or bladder during
    a seizure. 
    
    Yes, this is something to be concerned about.
    
    
    Lyn
    (the EMT and Mom) 

    Lyn,
    
    You're response and quite detailed and informative, but I have 
    a question.  I've read, more than once recently, where they are
    getting away from things like cold/alcohol baths for high fevers
    because they feel - the body feels cold and trys to make that cold
    even warmer, which would raise a temperature even more.
    
    Is there a difference in reaction to a cold bath as opposed to the
    cold packs that you're applying?
    
    						cj *->

    Just to let you know, I changed the title of the note to reflect what
    we're talking about.  It was what I had originally planned to name the
    note, but I spaced out when I typed in the name.
    
    It was formally "My worry of the week".
    
    sandy
    

    Yeah, a cold bath is a lot different from cold packs.  Whereas a cold
    bath can cool down body's core temperature dangerously, a cold pack
    isn't quite so drastic.  You'd only cool the "hot spots," as Lyn said,
    rather than plunging the whole body into a cold bath, which has its
    own risks.
    
    Moreover, I wouldn't want to put a seizing child into a tub.  I used
    to work with a woman who had a seizure disorder, and she was
    very frank with us about what to do and not to do.  As I recall, her
    advice was on the order of "keep a close eye on me, but basically,
    leave me alone."
    
    Lyn, please correct me if I'm wrong.

My daughter has a febrile seizure right before her 2 year old birthday.  I found
her unconscious in her crib.  I was not prepared at that time to know what the
best thing to do was.  Since then I have taken an Infant/Child CPR/Safety class.
 I recommend that anyone with young children do the same.  There are services
that will come right to your home if you can get a small group of parents
together.

What I have learned since then includes the following:

	- Place the child on their left side (as mentioned in a previous topic)
	- Be careful not to quickly move the child or jerk the child as this
          can cause the convulsions to start or worsen
	- Do not restrain the child and make sure there is nothing near them
          that can hurt them
	- CALL 911 AS SOON AS POSSIBLE
	- While you are waiting for 911, make sure the child is breathing,
	   has a pulse (that's where the Child Safetly/CPR class comes in handy)

We basically panicked.  I picked my daughter up and shook her (because she
was unconscious).  That started her convulsing.  THen we called 911 and got
disconnected.  So we dashed out the door to the emergency room.  We figured we'd
get there quicker.  WRONG.  The better thing to do (as we were told after) is
to call 911 and wait.  The EMTs will get there sooner and they have all the
important training and equipment. This assumes you are in a location where you
have this service.  Don't assume.  Check now if you have 911 service.  ANyway,
when we got to the hospital,our daugter had stopped breathing.  They gave her
resuce breathing right away.  After that, they gave her Tylenol and monitored
her.  She only had a diaper on and they wrapped her in a light sheet to prevent
chilling.  It took awhile before she woke up and she was out of it for awhile -
lethargic and a little confused.  Eventually, she was ok.

ANYWAY, we aged a few years, but we now have taken some classes and have
discussed what we would do in an emergency.  Having a plan in advance is helpful
so you don't have to discuss or make decisions at what is an emotionally tough
time.

My daughter hasn't had another seizure since, but we are better pre-pared.  Now
we keep a close eye on her if she seems to have a low fever or is not feeling
well. By the way, the dr. told us that a febrile seizure is believed to be
caused by a RAPID change in temperature (as opposed to having a high temp..)

	I heard on the radio the other day that pediatricians
	are not as concerned with the degree of the fever as they
	are with the child's behavior during the fever.  One doctor
	said, "If a child has a temperature of 104 and is running
	around and playing, I might not even have him come in.  On
	the other hand, if a child has a temperature of 101 and is
	lethargic, I want to see him in my office right away."

	Karen

	Nancy, 

	I just read your entry, what a scary time.  I think I would have
	panicked too.  Tears came to my eyes just reading your story.
	Thank goodness she's okay now and you're prepared.

	Now I'm starting to worry though, you found her this way in 
	her crib, what if it happened in the middle of the night and 
	you didn't come in when you did? 

	Karen T.

    RE: 999.7
    
    Yup! This is what my son's doctor told me last week. He also gave me a
    sheet explaining fevers which also says this.
    
    My son (10 mos) came down with Roseola last week (high fever then
    rash).
    
    Laura
    

    THis happened to my 1st son when he was a baby. He had 106 degree fever
    and rolled his eyes in the back of his head, stopped breathing and lay
    limp on the floor after having the siezures. I was at work and my 
    husband at home with him so he rushed him to the doctor, and the baby
    had another episode right in his office. Luckily the doctor revived
    him. He had too much bacteria in blood from an ear infection and it
    increased his fever so high. After putting wet towels on his body
    and an IV with antibiotics, the next day he was his usual self. I
    was also told that this tendency to have seizures with high fevers
    tends to occur more in boys and can be inherited.
    

    I believe that a febrile seizure may not always be related to high
    temperatures.  There was a little boy who lived next to us when I was
    growing up who had seizures when his temperature had stabilized at 99
    degrees.  He would get sick and have temperatures close to 105 degrees
    and never had a seizure, but his temperature would stabilize at 99 and
    sure enough he'd have a seizure.  

    Sorry it took so long to get back, it's been a very busy week and at
    present I am just stealing some time to inhale lunch.  But someone did
    ask a question after my reply about Ice packs as opposed to baths.  YES
    chilling the kiddos down with spot icing is safer than plunging them
    into a cool bath.  Cardiac arrest can occur when the body is cooled too
    rapidly (no you didn't ask to hear ALL the gruesome details did you?)  
    
    Another thing the pedi told me, he himself uses this method, is in the
    summer if it's fever alone, no seizures, let the child cool off in the
    wading pool just until he starts a little shivering, or do the same
    thing in a *tepid* bathtub, then take the child out wrap *lightly*
    until the shivering stops, and run the process again.  I've tried this
    successfully, as the doctor mentioned he had too.  
    
    re: the last, I'm not sure (in my medical opinion anyway) that what
    you're describing is truly the symptoms of a febrile seizure.
    
    now back to work...
    

    
    I stumpled apon this note by accident.  This has brought back some
    scarey memories.  My son is now 6 (struggling with a speach disorder)
    and will be attending 1st grade in the fall :-).  His 1st seizure was 
    when he was approx. 15 months old.  As with one of the previous notes, I 
    found my son in his cribe experiencing a seizure.  I had no clue what was 
    happening to him.  My first reaction was to grab him and run outside
    to his father and drive to the hospital (on our own) wrong!!!!  He 
    was fine, came out of it but since 15 months old he had several others.
    It seemed every time he would have a temp no matter how high the temp 
    was he would go into a seizure, convulse and turn bluish (seeming like
    it was lasting forever but only usually less than 1 min.).  That caused 
    problems with day care providers, they would be parenoid and be taking 
    extra precausions with temp.  A frightening experience for any parent.  
    He eventually was placed on Valium  by the Director of Pedi Neurolgy at 
    UMass Medical in Worcester, MA. where he spent one week after one of his 
    first few siezures.  He kept going in and out of this particular
    incident had several seizures in one day, he was transported from Clinton 
    hospital to UMass by ambulance.(and this was noted a febrile) When we 
    arrived at UMass they preformed a spinal on him thinking he had menengitis 
    thistime because I was having a hard time controlling his temp even with a 
    coprocessor, Thankfully it was not but they admitted him anyway.  The
    valium would control the seizures but if you can imagine giving your 2 year
    old Valium!  It's difficult to revisit this, he eventually was off the 
    Valium around 4 yrs then to experience another seizure (which was his 
    last!!)  My son would have a siezure when his temp was rising from normal 
    anywere to 99 degrees.  If I caught it and cooled him down in a tub (I was 
    advised by my Dr. at the time not to use ice, it cools the baby too quickly
    ) he also sometime would convulse!!  His little body couldn't handle the
    change in temp either way..up or down!!  He had several EEG's
    (electroencephalogram's) preformed after these seizure..all showed
    normal activity.  
    
    In closing when he was 15 months he was on his way with babbling and 
    momma and dadda.  It all ended after the start of the seizures.  Dr.'s 
    tried to tell me from Boston Childrens to UMass that my son's speach 
    disorder today had nothing to do with his seizures.  A mom goes with 
    her gut feeling.  He's been in special needs for speach since 2 years
    old.  He's doing great.  I fully understand him, sometimes he teased by
    other children because he sounds so immature.  He'll grow out of it..
    I never thought this would ever happen to my child, he was also a very 
    healthy infant.  Thanks for listening hope this helps.  Please always
    call for professional help!!! 

    Thanks to those of you who have experienced this (first hand or through
    your family/friends) for replying.  That's one of the reasons I wanted
    to start this discussion.  Even though Aaron hasn't had a seizure,
    there is always a possibility, and I feel it's best to be as prepared as
    possible.  And it seems (to me) to happen more frequently than what
    I've read or heard (what is *rare* anyway, 1 in 10, 100, 1000...?).
    
    It really is wonderful having this notesfile where things like this can
    be discussed.
    
    sandy

I'm still catching up, since I'm having to devote so much time to my new job,
but there's something I wanted to add to this.

Many people have discussed why not to use cold baths, but no one mentioned
what our pediatrician told us.  She said that if you want to bring a fever
down, you shouldn't put the child in a cold bath because this would actually
cause the child's body temperature to go HIGHER.  Apparently the pores shut
down or something (in protection against the cold) and that sends the body
temp higher.  She said that if the child is shivering, they are TOO COLD.

Since at least one person has mentioned shivering in a positive way, I suggest
that people check with their own doctors.

        Carol