Conference moira::parenting

    Oh yeah...this happened with my first son.  It was AWFUL!  We tried the
    Nystatin and a couple of other things but nothing worked.  FINALLY our
    pedi recommended something called "Gentian Violet" (not sure of the
    spelling).  This is a real old cure.  The druggist had to dig through
    his stuff and finally came up with a bottle (that he just GAVE to me
    because he never used it).  IT WORKED!  Within a week both of us were
    cured!
    
    On the negative side - this stuff is disgusting.  It is a deep purple
    liquid that stains EVERYTHING.  I had to "paint" it on the thrush in
    Adam's mouth and if he squirmed or spit it got all over everything.  
    
    Glad that phase of our lives are over!
    
    Linda

    
    This happened to my son also, but I had already stopped nursing
    when we discovered he had it.
    
    What triggered my concern was the rash he had on his bottom.
    It was like little blisters that formed on his bottom and when
    I would wipe him down, they would bleed.  The white mouth
    didn't concern me because I thought it was just "film" from
    the formula (first time mom, what did I know) *8^)...took him 
    to the pedi and sure enough, it was Thrush...
    
    The Nystatin worked well, cleared it up right away.  And the
    ointment the doctor also perscribed worked very well.  
    
    Good luck!
    
    Kristin

    I'll second the use of Gentian Violet.  My daughter did a round of
    Nystatin with no results.  When the doctor told me about GV, we started 
    using it that night, and there was considerable improvement within 3 
    days.  You have to continue to use it for a few days after the thrush 
    has cleared up to make sure it's gone.  After about 2 weeks of this,
    we haven't seen it come back.  
    
    I wasn't nursing, so I also had to make sure that nipples and pacifiers 
    were boiled after being used. 
    
    Carolyn 

    
    Try avoiding all yeasty-foods, like breads and vinegar. Also try
    both eating garlic and applying garlic juice mixed w/ olive oil
    to the infected area. Or you can get those garlic pearls and
    use some of the liquid from those. I think you'll be pleased w/
    the results if you can stand the smell.
    
    
    						Kathleen
    

    
    Wow, Gentian Violet...haven't heard of that in years.  My mother used
    to paint that on the  canker sores I got all the time.  I hated the
    stuff and thought it tasted awful. I fought so much it would be all
    over my mouth and lips for the longest time.

    well, 
        Thank you for your replies....does the Gentian Violet need a
    prescription?? I am at wit's end because I just got back from Vacation 
    and I swear my nipples are ready to fall off.....I have tried the
    Lotrimin-AF which is what my lactation consultant recomended....but it
    just isn't working...my daughter has gone through 3 bottles of
    nystatin, because with the first 2 bottles, noone told me I had to
    treat myself too....I also am a first time mother and I had no idea
    that thrush was being passed from me to her,etc.....
    
    will my daughter stop nursing if I use that G.V. stuff????     Mary

    Mary,
    
    Ina Mae Gasking, author of "Breastfeeding, Babies, and Bonding"
    recommends gentian violet for thrush.  Since she makes me look like a
    lightweight when it comes to advocating nursing babies, I wouldn't
    think it would impact your nursing.  However, I know from experience,
    sore, cracking nipples will.  Good luck,
    
    meg

    I shouldn't have made it sound that bad, they only hurt when she
    latches on and starts nursing.....but ouch....not as bad as when we
    first starting nursing and I did get cracking nipples.....I just can't
    stand the discomfort.....do you apply it and wash it off before you
    nurse or what? Well, I just called my pharmacy and they are going to
    order me a bottle....wish me luck....I can pick it up tomorrow...I have
    nothing to lose...he did warn me that it is very messy and stains
    everything so if anyone has any helpful hints I would appreciate
    them....is it worth picking up that breastfeeding book at this point in
    time, my daughter is 7 months and I am not sure how much longer I will
    be nursing her.......tahnk you again....Mary

    
        One thing that might help, I don't recall reading it here. When
    you go to the store also pick up nursing pads. They will absorb
    moisture, keep your bra dryer, and will also help to prevent stained
    clothing. I used them when I nursed and they were great!
    
        good luck,
    
        Rosie
    
    
      p.s. I know what you mean about the pain as the baby first starts
    nursing, I had mastitis (not sure if that's how it's spelled, and
    when the baby first started nursing there was a "surge" of pain
    until the milk was running smoothly).

    Hi,
    
    The book is fantastic, IMO, no matter how long you plan to nurse.  Ina
    Mae is very down to earth, has been a midwife for over 20 years and
    also raised and nursed several (5 or 6?) of her own kids as well.  
    
    I would recommend not wearing anything that you don't want to risk
    staining or putting a fancy outfit on the baby while you treat the
    thrush.  It is a great (read permanent) dye.  The nursing pads sound
    like a good idea as well.  
    
    meg

    I'll go one step further, go with the Gerber pads.  They work
    well and are thinner.  They don't intefere as much with your
    shape under a shirt.  :-)
    
    						cj *->

         Thank you one and all...............Mary

    
    For your sore nipples....
    
    After I had Patrick and was ready to leave the hospital
    the nurse told me that if my nipples get sore/cracked
    (which they did) to place warm teabags on them and 
    try to expose them to air as much as possible.
    
    Good Luck!!!
    
    Kristin

    Just an update...I called my daughter's pediatrician to ask about the 
    violet stuff and the dr. referred me to a dermatologist because he said
    we should've gotten rid of it by now.....but I can't get in until 3
    weeks, so I think in between I WILL pick up the violet stuff from my
    pharmacist today....I have nothing to lose...and thank you for the
    teabag remedy....my nipples aren't really sore..it's hard to explain
    but it is only when she nurses and it is more like inside behind my
    nipples that hurts......Mary

    Mary,
    
    Call back your pedi and tell him that you can't get into the
    dermatologist for 3 wks.  Lots of times the referring Dr. can get you
    an appt a lot sooner.  If not, ask what he recommends in the meantime!
    
    Also, if I remember right, thrush likes a dark moist environment, so if
    there's any chance you can do some 'nude' sun bathing (or even a warm
    light bulb), that may help it clear up sooner .... I'd opt to avoid the
    bra altogether ....  Also, for Jonathan, I used to coat his pacifiers
    with the Nystatin, and boil them every night, and that seemed to help
    too.  He hated the nystatin in the first place, so that helped get it
    in more often.  
    
    Good Luck!
    patty
    
    

      
       Mary, 
    
       You say that's it's more like inside your breast that is sore?
    Have you had yourself checked for mastisis. When I had this I 
    had to take an antibiotic. The symtoms I remember.  As the 
    breasts filled with became they became more and more painful, I 
    was feverish. When I started to nurse I got this intense pain
    when the milk first started being released, then it subsided
    as the milk emptied out. This is another thing that the mother
    "catches" from the baby and it won't hurt the baby for you to
    take the antibiotics. I had to go to my doctor about this. I can't
    recall at the moment if you said anything about antibiotics. 
    
        Also, make sure your drinking plenty of fluids, I'm sure you
    do but it was just a thought. I felt better when I drank more 
    water and juice.
    
        Just a thought.
    
        Rosie

    RE .16
    
    After reading Mary's last entry, I was thinking mastisis myself.
    Sure sounds like that may be present also.
    
    						cj *->

    well ladies,
                You've got me thinking too.....I did look in Micaylah's mouth
    last night and I didn't see any thrush spots so you may be right....
    I am calling my lactation consultant at 9:00, who is also a RN ....so
    she should shed some light on the subject...I will let you know what
    she says.....Mary

    I got a thrush outbreak on my ARM, right in the middle of it. It was
    a red circle about the size of a dime. I am not a nursing Mom, I am
    a non-nursing Dad (smile), but I got thrush anyway. The dr. said I
    was eating too much sugar and encouraging thrush to grow... so, for a
    month I am on a sugar free diet... and I mean sugar FREE... no milk,
    no fruit, no refined sugar, no honey etc. etc. etc. This will five the
    'good' bacteria in my gut a chance to get back in balance with the
    thrush and drive it back.
    
    Anyway... 
    
    Jeff

    well.....here is an update on the thrush.....I went to my ob-gyn
    yesterday...and she swabbed my nipples to do a culture so she could see
    if it was yeast....the good news is ..it is NOT....we killed the fungus
    which causes thrush!!! yipee!! she believes it is a case of blocked
    milk ducts...she said use warm compresses and if it still bothers me
    than call my La Leche League leader and check with them because all is
    well medically....now I can cancel the dermatologist appt. Any new
    advice now that we think we know what it is??? Thank you all for your
    help......Mary

I am a little foggy on exactly what your problem is but if one of the symptoms
is dry, irritated nipples, you could try sweedish nursing cups (they have
another name as well that escapes me) They basically allow air to circulate
around your nipples.  I used them when I started nursing to heal cracked
nipples.  One drawback - they cause leaking.

Lori

    Lori,
    
    I think the problem was pain "behind" the nipple, not the nipple
    itself.
    
    Mary,
    
    Glad you're getting it narrowed down!  Thank God that thrush is
    finally gone!  Good luck.
    
    						cj *->

I had tons of experience with clogged milk ducts :-( :-(

What worked best for me:

	warm compresses about 20 minutes before nursing
	   (as best as you can estimate)
	   Use the hottest water your hands can stand and
	   change frequently.  I've also heard that wearing
	   handwarmers in your bra can help!
	massage just before and during nursing
	nurse on the affected side first 
	try to position the baby such that the baby's eyes
	    are looking at the source of the pain
	    (for instance, when I had a clogged duct in the
	     bottom of my breast, I nursed lying down with the 
	     baby upside down relative to me.  This was easy with
	     a 4-week-old -- I'm not sure how a 7-month old might
	     respond!)

Do not wear a nursing bra at night (or only wear one of
those nighttime nursing bras which just offer very
light support).  Try to make sure that nothing is
ever tight across your breast tissue.  Try to make
sure you change position at night. 

These are the tricks that worked for me.  I hope they help you! 

- Deb B.

Can anyone give more specifics on using Gentian Violet for thrush ?  Our
5 week old has it, we've been trying Nystatin for about 3 weeks without
much success (prescribed by the pedi.)  We've obtained some Gentian Violet
from the local pharmacy and have begun using it.  Some improvement but
not totally fixed yet.  We're using a cotton swab (Q-tip) to put a drop
on our babies tongue.  It spreads real quick to most the mouth. Is
this all we need to do ?  Should my wife use it on her nipples or
continue with the Nystatin cream ?  How long should we do this for ?

I'm cautious, because the GV bottle has warnings about swallowing and
inhaling this stuff, and dont want to cause other problems.  I would
'test' it myself to see how it tastes, but might get a few strange looks
coming into work with a purple mouth!

thanks,
martin

    
    
    My 6 month old son had thrush off and on for over 5 months.  I still am
    cautious about saying it's over with.  I also breast feed so I was as
    well using Nystatin cream.  I used it 4 times a day.  My doctor said
    that the Gentian Violet was supposed to and had the same cure abilities
    as the Nystatin drops that Patrick took, but after the drops to him 4
    times a day, and cream to me 4 times a day, and sterilizing EVERYTHING
    daily the baby could come in mouth contact with (pacifier, nipples,
    toys), he still would get it back after being what I thought was
    "Thrush free" for a couple of weeks.  I was tempted to use Gentian
    Violet, but both my pedi and my La Leche contact said it was terrible
    messy and with the frequency of having to put it in the baby's mouth,
    well, I didn't use it, but if your concerns are safety, the LaLeche
    people never "authorize" anything but breast milk into the baby, so if
    they OK's it, and so did my pedi and yours, it should be alright. 
    Everyone said that it's very hard to get rid of and if you weren't
    faithful with the 4 times a day and my pedi recommended for at least 3
    weeks even if it appeared to clear up, well anyway good luck!!!  I hope
    I didn't jinx myself by writing this note.
    
    Beth (whose son has been thrush free for 4 weeks now)
    

    Put the Gentian Violet right on the thrush spots with the q-tip.  Your
    wife should use the Nystatin on her nipples.  
    
    Gentian violet cleared up my sons thrush many years ago.  It was the
    only thing that worked!  Remember, a little goes a LONG, PURPLE way!
    
    

    Thanks for the replies.  We'll keep at it.  Good luck Beth, I hope
    you've seen the last of it!
    
    martin

    I don't usually recommend anything but breastmilk into babies, but we
    have found some luck with plain yogurt rubbed on the mouth where the
    thrush is.  We were fortunate in none of our kids having had it, but I
    have several friends who had purple mouthed babies and purple nipples
    for a while when the nystatin didn't seem to work.  If you don't have a
    dishwasher, pour boiling water over everything the baby puts in her
    mouth, with the exception of mom.  ;-)  she should try to get her
    nipples aired off each day as well, fresh air and cotton t-shirts with
    no bra is what finally did the trick for a younger friend.
    
    meg

    MY BABY GOT THRUSH AND I DONT BREAST FEED AND SHE DID NOT TAKE
    ANTIBIOTICS AND SHE IS NOT IN DAY CARE.  THEN WHERE CAN IT COME
    FROM???? IS IT THAT DIFFICULT TO CURE, THIS FILE IS SCARING ME@@@@@
    HELP 1ST TIME MOM OF 8MTH OLD
    

As I recall .... it's "there" all the time.  Basically, it's just an imbalance 
of things that are already in the system -- similar as to when a woman will get
a yeast infection, after antibiotics ... because the antibiotics kill off the
"good" bacteria, that normally keeps the yeast in check - the yeast can then
grow "wild".  Thrush is very similar.

FWIW - Our drs always told us that it's not at all painful for the child.  Make
sure you sterilize all nipples/pacifiers/chewy toys, and anything else that 
gets put in the mouth, use the Nystatin, and just try to be careful.  It takes
a few weeks, but shouldn't be a huge deal.  In the scope of "seriousness" in
relation to other things you'll encounter as a parent, on a scale of 1 to 10,
10 being the worst, thrush is about a negative 2.  It should be about as
stressful as a messy diaper in the mall (in comparison).

I forget the age of your child - some yogurt w/ live cultures may help ....

-Patty

    What Patty said,
    
    There is always yeast and other buggies in our bodies, it is just that
    sometimes one or more bugs get an overgrowth.  
    
    This is clearable.  it takes longer when Breastfed babies get it to
    clear up, as you can't boil a breast, (or at least I wouldn't)  and the
    breast often is infected as well.  
    
    meg

    Thanks,
    i got a big chuckle out of boiling the breasts, i cant stop
    laughing.....
    
    anyway, I am feeding her yogurt and niactin cream, and that other
    liquid that you swoosh in her mouth with q-tips...she likes it!
    by the way i am not "feeding" her the cream, i am putting it on her bum
    areas.  I will keep at it and start boiling ALL her toys.  Can her
    cousins ages 4-8 catch it, and for that matter can I?
    
    
    lea
    

    ONE OTHER THING
    
    SHOULD I BOIL EVERYTHING SHE PUTS IN HER MOUTH AFTER EACH DAY/USE?
    

We carry a lot of "flora" ... ie bacteria ... around with us all the time.
It is when the conditions are right that the flora grow out of proportion
and produce an infection.  Thrush is one such skin type infection.

Typically, the assorted flora and your own immune system keep these things
in check. Like yogurt bacterial cultures keep certain yeasts like candida
at bay.

Sometimes, the checks and balances don't work for some reason ... sometimes
for example by overuse of some disinfectants that kill some flora and not
others, the balance gets upset and an infection results.  Thrush is an
opportunistic type infection ... that is it relies on these imbalances to
take hold.

So, bottom line is that it is nothing specific you've done.  Thrush is a
pest ... but it is not serious.  Relax ... as others here who've progressed
past the first child have discovered, there are lots of things that you worry
about doing perfectly ... but you don't have to be perfect and your child
will survive quite happily.  

Relax!

Stuart

Personally, I think I wouldn't bother with boiling things more than once a 
day or two. (and I'm sure I only did it a couple times a week)

Yes, older children can get it - adults, or whoever, but I don't think that 
it's overly "contagious".  I wouldn't "share" pacifiers and that sort of 
stuff .... but it's not like pink-eye, where if you so much as look at the
infected person, it seems that everyone gets it! (-:

-Patty