Conference moira::parenting

    I went through the process of discovering my kindergartener
    was having problems in a structure classroom in a private
    school.  He was experiencing the inability to 
    play well with others, inappropriate responses (anger) and
    unable to focus.  So we embarked on a parent's journey on
    how to help our child be in an environment to help him learn.
    We focused in on a possible learning disability and what
    would be a good environment for him to be in.
    
    First a CORE Evaluation of his scholaristic abilities in the
    hope to discover any learning disabilities.  We suspected
    Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD).  I monitored the CORE
    evaluation (my degree is in Psychology) and noticed gaps
    in the testing.  It wasn't picking up his ADD behavior.
    I was disappointed, it was a waste of time.  The CORE 
    found no problems.
    
    Then we interviewed the public school to talk about the
    Readiness Program, where kindergarteners go into an
    interium class before First Grade.  We were hoping 
    Readiness would give him a year to mature and the 
    stigma of staying back a year wouldn't be felt in a
    school that had a Readiness class.  It was the absolute
    worst environment for him.  It was an open class of 3-4
    classrooms of kids.  REMEMBER: My child does not have the
    ability to filter out background noices/disruption.  If 
    you recognize that your child can't sit still to have an
    easy book read to them, or that they can't color a simple
    page in a coloring book, that sort of stuff, I'd suggest
    you keep that child out of an open classroom environment.
    
    We kept him back a year, had a brainwave test to rule out
    siezures and got him on Ritalin.  THE CLOUDS PARTED AND
    THE SUN CAME OUT!  He is doing great.  He calls his 
    medicine his "attention" or "concentration" pill.  We 
    forgot it one morning and the school called me at work
    to ask me if I had forgotten that morning.  SO IT WORKS!
    
    Look at your child's learning behavior and decide.

    My 7 yr old does not go to a school with an open concept as you
    describe (4 contiguous rooms) but nevertheless
    his individual room (Acton, MA) with 23 kids is very different from what 
    we were used to. It is almost overstimulating with things hanging from the
    ceiling and walls...there is no blank space anywhere in the room. It is
    very attractive but there is an awful lot going on.
    
    The desks are clustered in fours. During the day the kids mill about
    choosing things to do and have conversations with each other. There
    are times when they must sit and listen and it is quiet but in
    general they have alot more freedom within the classroom....
    
    It is very different from our memories of rows and desks, etc. We
    never sat on the floor ! Sometimes the kids have lounge areas where
    they read. Much more casual than the 1950s classroom I would say.
    Alot more interaction and also seem to move more quickly from subject
    to subject.  
    
    It makes me wonder if the schools are 'catering' to their
    attention spans rather than seeking to improve them.
    
    Also, the elementary kids move from room to room for some subjects
    and teachers.  We basically stayed in the same room (until 7th grade)
    and the teachers came to us. 
    
    When I go there I feel a little overwhelmed such as you did in Nashua.
    The cafeteria is another story ! We even ate at our desks without 
    leaving the room.

I'm sure a lot depends on the school administrators,
teachers, and students, but here are some of my
memories from the late 60s, early 70s:

I was a guinea pig in 5th grade for the open classroom
concept.  The first week of school, they tested all 4th, 5th
and 6th graders.  Then they mixed us up according to how we
tested.  So a 4th grader could end up in with mostly 6th
graders, or a student could end up in 6th grade math
and 4th grade English.  Some of the courses were taught
in traditional classrooms; some were "taught" in a large
open space with "labs" set up around the class area.  The
course work was all proceed at your own pace, ask the teacher
for help as needed, let the teacher know when you thought you
were ready to complete a lab.  The teacher would go over your
lab work with you, and then you might have an oral or written
test.  Sometimes we were able to work cooperatively in groups.  

I remember loving this atmosphere, but, I also remember
getting lazy.  Once I was done with whatever I had to do
to get an A, I didn't always work very hard after that.  As I
recall, I was highly motivated to work on spelling; but once
I completed what was needed for math, I kind of lost interest.
(This is a bit ironic as I majored in math in college :-)

And it was a *major, major, major* culture shock to enter
a traditional junior high school afterwards.  I *loathed*
listening to long explanations as the teacher lectured
and some kids just didn't get it.  But I was only there
for 1 year before they built a new experimental junior high.
Here, the "open concept" didn't seem to work as well.  I think
we were all too wild with too many hormones running around.
Typically, one or two of the bright students would complete
all the lab work they needed to get an A.  Then the students-
interested-in-receiving-an-A-with-as-little-effort-as-possible
would copy their work.  I think they gave up on this after 8th
grade and gravitated toward "team teaching" for 9th grade
where the same team of teachers would have the same kids
for all the courses.

- Deb B.

    
    I had a very similar experience as .3. I entered the open classroom as
    a guinea pig in grade 4. I remember having a lot of fun, but also
    slacking on the studies, and as I also recall my grades did go down. It
    was very hard to filter out the noise and stay focused on your work.
    The transition from an open classroom to a single classroom was also
    not easy.
    
    Personally, knowing my children, I would not put them into an
    enviroment like that (2 very active boys).... But I think you know your
    child best and I think it is like anything else, it can be good for
    some and perhaps not for others.
    
    /K

    I had a very similar experience in open classroom experiments when
    I was in the second grade (back in the late 60's). I think the second
    grade is way to young to have this type of set up and I remember
    it being the most boring long year I ever had in school. It was like
    one big recess the whole year (not very productive!) I remember
    nodding off in the afternoon with my head on the desk because I
    was so bored.  It was such a disappointment after having been in first 
    grade (regular structured class set up) and loving school. 
    
    Then when we went back to regular class structure after that year it
    was so much better.                    
    
    

    My daughter has ADD and was in a open classroom school.
    She was not diagnosed until the third grade.  She had an awful
    elementary school experience and I think it put her behind so much
    that when she went into Junior High, even though it was single
    classrooms, she continued to struggle.  I have not been the least
    impressed with the school system in my city.  The kids do okay as long
    as your child is the type that can get their work done and never
    causes any commotion.  I have been in a number of school systems since
    I have three children who have either graduated or are soon to graduate
    and find that the worse school system I have ever had to deal with 
    was here. I still have two more to start school and I pray that they 
    do not struggle as my daughter did, but then I will be more aware if 
    my rights this time around too.  I do NOT agree with open classrooms
    at all.....f
      
    

    My daughter will enter second grade this fall and be part of a "team
    teaching" environment between two second grade classes (two classrooms
    that can be open as one room or separated by a movable divider). Each
    child from the first grade has been assigned to one teacher (sort of a
    "homeroom teacher," I guess), although the kids from both classes will
    move between both teachers for different subjects.
    
    I was very concerned when I learned about this in June, as we had not
    received any information from the administration (and still haven't) on
    how this process works, why it's done at such as early age, and the
    benefits and drawbacks of the program. So I made it a point to "visit"
    the teachers on open house night to inquire about the above. Although I
    acquired an immediate dislike for one teacher because she was very
    brusque with myself and the other four mothers who were with me (thank
    g-d my daughter's been placed with the other teacher for "homeroom"), I
    walked away from that meeting willing to give this concept a chance.
    It's not because I have much more info than I did before meeting the
    teachers, it's because they were open about what didn't work this past
    year and the changes they will be making for this coming year. Plus,
    the principal is well aware of my expectations for the coming year and
    what a pain in the you-know-what that I'll be if my expectations aren't
    met! (I'm the type of mother that educators and doctors love to hate!)
    
    Anyway, I don't know if the "open classroom" concept works any better
    in a smaller group, so I would appreciate it if anyone with experience
    with the smaller "team teaching" environment could add their thoughts
    here. I'll also write again once I have a better feel for the program
    in the early fall.
    
    Nancy-  

    my son in effect had team teaching this year in first grade...the
    'homeroom' teacher who did reading, math, and science....then another
    first grade teacher did social studies, then another had them for
    spanish...  i think it has pros and cons.
    you can argue that it does not allow them consistent teaching styles
    but if your child has a problem with one person or style, then you
    can see how they react to another. my son's homeroom teacher this
    year was a particularly cold woman and they didn't really click...but
    there is no way you can thru school without coming across someone
    you don't click with ...it is part of the learning process.
    
    however, when my son was having problems, it was good to know he was
    not at the mercy of just one person's opinion .... that a team opinion
    gives you a feeling of consensus...not just you vs. one teacher.

    We just moved back to NH from a year's assignment in Canada.  My
    daughter Heather (age 9 - Grade 3) attended an "open concept" school
    in Kanata, Ontario.  The school itself was round, the library in
    the centre, and the "classrooms" were pie shaped wedges from the
    centre.   The only thing seperating the different classes were rows
    of file cabinets and bookcases.  My daughter would come home every
    day complaining of the noise at school, and that she was having a
    hard time concentrating.  It got so bad by times, that the French
    teacher would move the entire class out to one of the portables for
    their lesson.  I spoke to her teacher on several occasions, expressing
    concern, and found that even the teachers have a hard time with the
    noise levels.  They find themselves speaking louder, which will prompt
    the teacher(s) is the adjoining "classrooms" to begin raising their
    speaking level as well.
    
    My daughter survived the year at this school ok (her grades did go
    down a little, but we aren't sure if it was the school environment
    or if she was just so miserable that we had moved up there in the
    first place).  But had we decided to remain up in Canada, we would
    have definitely moved her to another school.  Not a good experience
    in my eyes, but that's just my 2cents

    
    Well, first, don't assume that because one school in your town is
    "open" that the other schools will be as well.  Before they
    re-districted, our boys were supposed to go to Main Dunstable
    Elementary, which is the "open concept".  Chris would have failed
    miserably!!  Heck, he's distracted if he's washing his hair and sees a
    new bottle of shampoo - there's no WAY he'd survive a ton of
    kids/classrooms 'competing'  for his attention.
    
    But alas, they re-drew the city lines, and now they go to Ledge St
    school. (which seems to be where the *REALLY* rough kids go, but that's
    another subject).  He's done fine there, and even still has some
    distraction problems, but can manage them (just kid-stuff, I'm sure).
    
    The people that I've spoken to about the open class said that they're
    not so bad as you'd think ... but these people have children who are
    *REALLY* focused.  And in some minor dealings with the Nashua school
    system, I think that that would be an acceptable reason to have your child
    attend a more traditional "individual classroom" environment, if that's
    what you wanted.  
    
    How would you like to be at work, having a meeting, and on the other
    side of the partitions, on all sides, there were other groups having
    meetings too ... it gives me a headache thinking about it! (-;
    
    Check around ....
    
    

    My son has spent the last two years (Kindergarten and 1st grade) in 
    open classrooms (2 rooms only) with team teaching.  There are positives 
    and negatives to it.  
    
    For my son, the second viewpoint from the second teacher was a positive. 
    However, I find that the open classroom, overly stimulating
    environment has been very difficult for Joe.  His school also "tables"
    the kids (i.e., settle 4-6 kids into little groups facing eachother,
    and expect them to work hard without talking to eachother
    excessively...).  Joe is *not* ADD, but he isn't a particularly
    motivated student, has been an only child for 7 years, and loves to be
    the center of attention.  I cannot say that he has "excelled" in this
    environment.  (BTW, this last year he was also in mixed-grade class of
    1st and 2nd graders)  He certainly has done well enough.  He reads, but
    is underconfident in his ability to do so.  His math skills are
    excellent, as he has already grasped basic multiplication and division
    concepts (word problem solving).  His biggest problem is creative
    writing.  This is simply beyond him, and I often wonder if he would do
    better at it in a quieter environment.
    
    Since we just moved from Southern California to Arizona, where they are
    just opening their very first year-round school, I have high hopes that
    open classrooms haven't hit their popularity stride here.  We shall
    see.
    
    M.
    

    Re .9
    
    Let me guess ... you are referring to Roland Michener PS ... 
    
    My daughters went there ... and our reaction was generally that it was
    GREAT!  Yes, there were occasions that noise levels got a little high,
    but the negatives were strongly made up for by the sense of community
    in the school, without a lot of conflict.  It is interesting that you
    said that French classes were in the open classroom areas ... There are
    2 WALLED French Classrooms, a WALLED AV room for films etc and WALLED
    Junior Kindergaten and Kindergarten classrooms.
    
    I think it is a matter of getting used to it  ... and it will depend on
    the children.  Mine started there in gr 1 and JK (4 yr old K) so they
    lived with it essentially from day 1 and thrived.  I can see that
    children from conventional schools could have difficulty though.
    
    I find it interesting that the 60s "open classroom and teaching"
    experiment which was rejected soundly, and so schools like Roland
    Michener then compromised with semi-open classrooms and conventional
    reaching, has come up to bat again for another attempt.  Many school
    districts seem to be experimenting with open classrooms and team
    teaching and lack of structure yet again.  Seems education fads go
    round and round and round ... like phonics!
    
    I don't believe that your daughters grades changing are so much a
    reflection of the school, but rather a vast difference in the way
    assessment is performed.  Consider that in a Canadian school, you
    can be in the top 5% in a class and still have Bs, and yet have the
    identical ability.  Then you can go to England and have Cs.  No
    difference in the knowledge level or ability ... just the scale you
    use to measure ... like temperature ...
    
    Stuart