Conference moira::parenting

    I know I had to sign a form when my kids had all their shots which
    listed the risks involved.  What state are you in?  We're NH but it
    looked like this was a form for all states.
    
    I would definitely contact the Medical Examiner in your state.  This
    dr. had no right to treat you that way.
    
    Linda

    Is this doctor in the same practice as the doctor that did the 15 month
    check up ?  (you said you moved, but it sounds like he had some
    paperwork)...
    Was the 15-month visit and the 18-month visit well-baby checkups or was 
    she there for particular reason ?
    
    No question that you have every right to be absolutely furious. I would
    also consider calling a lawyer and the insurance company/hmo that this
    doctor is part of.  Be cool and get your facts straight and then go
    after this guy.

    
    If your health insurance is through an HMO, I'd definitely be
    on the phone to their patient relations department ASAP and I
    wouldn't hang up until I was satsified!
    
    That stinks!
    Carol

    
    
    You could also file a complaint with the American Board
    of Pediatrics, where the doctors get their certifications.
    
    
    
    Eva

    How is your daughter doing?  I am really curious as to who this doctor
    is.  Could you send me a message offline.  I want to make sure I stay
    away from him!!
    
    BTW - the last time my daughter had shots, I wasn't asked to sign
    anything. 
    
    Nancy

    Even 20+ years ago, I always had to sign a form for the shots for
    Lolita at her well baby/immunization checks.  
    
    I would call my insurer, especially if it is an hmo, and also the
    county medical board.  
    
    Like you, I certainly wouldn't take her back to this doctor.  those who
    won't listen to parental concerns or check up with them and the records
    are not IMO the people I want treating myself or my loved ones.
    
    meg

    I agree the doctor made a mistake and should accept the responsibility
    for that (and also has an attitude that would prevent me from agreeing
    to schedule future appointments with him - there's one of the doctors
    in the group practice we use that I refuse to deal with, due to a
    similar attitude).

    However, I have never signed anything to approve the shots given to my
    kids.  I'm a bit surprised to hear of that being the policy in some
    places.  (I also live in NH.)

				cheryl

    When my 2 older children, now 15 & 17, I did not sign any papers.
    But with Nick my 2 yr old, I have to sign a paper every time.
    
    Sherry 

    I live in NH as well and always have to sign a form at the doctors
    before she will give my son his shots. 
    
    In fact, there were two sets when he was an infant... one that stated
    all the risks, etc and had a section to sign and tear off (to return),
    and also a one page form that I initial at each visit that he is
    scheduled for shots.  It lists what he will be getting, the date,
    the doctors initials, and then my initials so that it is clear that
    we have are aware what's going on.
    
    Not signing just doesn't sound right.  Are you sure you didn't
    sign anything (.7)?  
    
    Julie
    

    When Alex (now age 10) was a baby, I didn't have to sign for any of her
    shots.  Last month she got her MMR booster (in Mass. this is a prerequisite
    for middle school) and I know I had to *read* a paper... but I don't
    remember whether I had to sign it [Memory is the second thing to go :-) ].
    
    Leslie

Thanks for all the replies.  I plan to start making some calls this afternoon,
especially to HMO blue.  I thought it was standard practice to sign a release.
I've had to sign at least one at every visit she received a shot at.  The
doctor in question also said that a release should have been signed at 
yesterday's visit.

To answer the question from a few replies back, this doctor is not associated
with her prior pedi.  It's a completely different state (we're in MA now).

I just called home to see how the peanut was doing.  She's eating OK and has
been playing, but her arm must be sore because she started crying when it
was washed at bathtime and she's been favoring the other one.  This morning
the area was red, a little swollen and hard to the touch.

Thanks again for all the support. I really depend on this notesfile for all
its information and support.

I'll let everyone know if something else happens.

Laura

How awful.

I would find a pediatrician you can trust and call for a second (even third)
opinion about severity of the possible reactions.  You definitely need a
medical opinion, and you need it from somebody else.  If this doctor is in a
group practice, perhaps one of the other doctors might do, but it might be good
to go outside the group.

						Brian

    
    
    FYI.  Something else to make note of when signing the "release form"
    for shots, the Lot # should appear on the release.  I always write it
    down in case there is a recall or warning.  There have been some bad
    lots in the not to distant past.
    
    -beth

    
    I have always had to sign a release before Alyssa received her shots. 
    Alyssa is due for her 18 month checkup on Monday and I am wondering if
    she will receive a shot or "booster".
    
    I would think that that dr. would of postponed the shot until the next
    visit, if the father was questioning it.  Why the heck did he just assume 
    that he was right to giving her the shot and not even double checking.
    
    I have always trusted my daughter's dr. and nurse, if they say she
    needs a shot, I believe them.  However, sometimes it can get alittle
    confusing because if she is sick they won't administer the shot and then
    you get it on the next visit so sometimes the schedule is off.  I think
    from now on, I will carefully study the back of the "blue book" and the
    immunization record so I'm more fully informed.
    
    For one set of shots, Alyssa was like 4-5 days shy of the actual month 
    (i.e. 4-5 days short of being 6 months).  They would not give her this
    particular shot in the series, but she received the others during the 
    checkup because of the possible side effects (I think it was the HIB shot 
    but I can't remember).  
    
    I would definitely check with someone that would have an unbiased
    opinion (someone outside of that dr's practice).  Have you ever tried
    calling that nurse hotline (1-800-ask a nurse).  My husband and I have
    called them a few times.
    
    Glad to hear that she is doing better
    
    

re .9:
>>    Not signing just doesn't sound right.  Are you sure you didn't
>>    sign anything (.7)?  
    
You know, it's been a while since we had any shots.  I think the last one
was for David's 5-year checkup, which was 2.5 years ago.  I'm fairly sure
I didn't sign anything then, but maybe the policy was introduced shortly
after that.  Since then, we've had plenty of pokes (TB test, finger poke
for lead and, I think, iron level check), but no shots.  Gregor has his
5-year checkup next month, so I guess I'll get to sign for his shot then.

I'm used to signing release forms every 2 or 3 minutes in the hospital (though
thank goodness we haven't been there for a couple of years either!), so it'll
seem quite natural at the doc's, I imagine.

In the 7.5 years since David was born, we've seen the immunization schedule
change over and over again, both adding shots and changing the recommended
age for them.   Ah, the fast-moving medical frontier.

					cheryl

See, when the damn insurance companies take over, we get poor care.  Can you
imagine with all this technology that our medical care was BETTER 30 YEARS AGO!!

I'm sorry, on my soapbox again!  :)

I would call Patient Relations and also physically see the coordinator at the
facility and file a formal complaint.  You are a parent and have concerns and
EXPECT the corresponding respect when asking questions.  Ask, bitch and
complain.  That's the only way to get thru to these morons.  Although your child
seems to be doing OK, there was/is a reaction.  Call the facility again and
speak with another pediatrician or, better yet, the Pediatric nurse.  Ask all
the right questions and ensure you get STRAIGHT answers.  If not, threaten them
with your very angered presence until you do the get the information you need. 
Then after that, you TELL them you are taking your child to ANOTHER facility for
a second opinion and that they WILL authorize anything you demand.  Period, end
of story.  Then you go and find someone you trust and have your child examined.

It can be done, but you have to really mean business because they will try their
utmost to suck up to you.  HCHP Chelmsford no longer &*@#'s with me!  :D

Your child should be just fine, but that really isn't the issue here.  The
physician screwed up and admitted that the chart was confusing, that's why
parents are there to answer those kinds of questions!  This is a clear case of
unadulterated cattle driving.

Please forgive my soapbox attitude, but I, too, have gone thru plenty regarding
the medical care of my kids, now 6 and 9 1/2.

Sandra

    No doctor or other health care professional has the right to yell at
    a parent.  Period.  So s/he's exasperated.  Tough tacos.  The
    doctor's feelings are the doctor's problem, not yours.  Getting called
    at all hours of the day/night is what goes with being a doctor.  
    
    Having said that, call the patient relations department at your HMO. 
    Try to keep your temper -- you can convey an awful lot of negative
    feelings in a very calm way!  I know from experience that threatening,
    screaming, etc., gets virtually nowhere.  I agree with the noter who
    said, get your facts straight first.
    
    Vomiting, crying, running a temp, and having a sore arm are very
    typical reactions to a shot.  After James' first series of shots, I
    brought him home fussing, he vomited all of his next feeding, and
    fussed for two more hours before finally settling down.  The doctor
    said I could give him Tylenol, which I did immediately upon getting
    home.  IT didn't help that time, but it did all the other times.  And
    yes, his arm was sore and hard for several days.  So Bre had a pretty
    normal reaction, from everything I can judge here.
    
    As to signing/not signing, I believe I had to initial something the
    last time I got the kids shots -- James' school immunization, as I
    recall.
    
    It is not for me to say anything, but I often feel that single mothers
    and dads are discriminated against by the medical establishment. 
    PLEASE NO FLAMES, NO RATHOLES!  This is just my observation.
    
    Good luck to you -- we are here for you!
      

Thanks for all your replies on and off line.  I agree with all of you that we
should get another medical opinion.  In fact we tried to do this.  After I 
spoke to the doctor about his screw up, we called the emergency room at this
hospital.  My boyfriend explained the situation to the emergency room nurse.
Her response to the question 'could this cause any problems, is there
anything we should watch for, and could she have some type of reaction in the
future' was answered with 'I don't know'.  I believe she was just covering
the doctor's ass (my boyfriend told her who the doctor was and what the
situation was).

I'm still awful angry, but at the same time, awful happy that Bre seems ok.

And I don't intend to drop this; not by a long shot!!!

Keep you posted,

Laura

The National Vaccine Information Center may be able to help you.
I believe that they have a network of lawyers who are familiar
with vaccine issues who may or may not be able to help.

Here is the blurb from the NVIC about themselves:

The National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC) operated by
Dissatisfied Parents Together (DPT) is a national, non-profit organization
founded in 1982 representing parents and health care professionals concerned
about childhood diseases and vaccines.  NVIC is dedicated to (1)informing
the public about childhood diseases and vaccines in order to prevent vaccine
injuries and deaths; (2) assisting those who have suffered severe reactions
to vaccinations; (3) representing the vaccine consumer by monitoring 
vaccine research and development; vaccine policymaking, and vaccine-related
federal and state legislation; and (4) working to obtain the right of parents
to make informed, independent vaccination decisions for their children.


They have a voicemail type system and can be reached at:
703-938-DPT3
703-938-0342
800-909-SHOT
Fax: 703-938-5768

National Vaccine Information Center
512 W. Maple Avenue #206
Vienna, VA 22180

good luck,
 -Beth

	I have been asked to sign for every shot either of my two
	kids has received.

	I'm sorry you had to go through that experience.  In your position,
	I'd definitely be searching for a new doctor.

	One comment on your daughter's illness.  Although it *is* suspicious,
	especially with the timing related to the shot, there is a possibility
	that the sickness was unrelated to the vaccine.  The symptoms you
	described exactly mimic the symptoms of the stomach bug my
	son had last week.  After he got sick at daycare, he cried inconsolably
	until we arrived, about 40 minutes later.  Whatever bug it was, it
	seemed to last less than 12 hours.  He has not had shots in almost
	six months.

	I'm glad to hear your daughter is doing better!

	Karen

Hi,

Just wanted to post a quick update and to post a phone number in case
anyone else needs it.

I've filed a complaint with the Mass Board of Medical Registration and with
my HMO.  I did talk to a lawyer, but we both decided that was not the way 
to go.  The medical director from the HMO just called and asked me to fax
him a letter containing EVERYTHING I could remember from that day.  

If anyone needs to file a medical complaint in Mass, call the Board of
Medical Registration in Boston.  The number is (617) 727-1788.  

Also, Breanna is doing fine.  She's at the beach today working on her tan (oh
to be 18 months again).

Lastly, I'd like to thank everyone for their kind words and support.  You made
it much easier to stand up for myself and my daughter.