Conference moira::parenting

    We tried volunteers.  That fizzled.  We have a very small parish and
    many times there would be children from only one family in the nursery,
    and sometimes it would be one of their parents in there with them so
    that the other parent could attend the service.  

    Then we tried a woman who lived next door, but she proved to be
    unreliable.

    Our best success has come from a local day care/nursery/kindergarten.  
    A teacher in that school was willing to come in on a regular basis.  I
    think it helped the kids, especially the real young ones, to have the
    same face every week.  Also, being a professional, she was able to keep
    things under more control.  And as a bonus, she would plan quiet
    activities for them, not just sit and watch.  We had a few fizzles
    using this method too.  The first woman was reliable, but moved away. 
    The next was reliable too, but lasted only a short time because she too
    moved away.  The next only showed up once, phoned a few times but just 
    sort of faded away.  The one we have now is not a teacher, she is the
    teenage daughter of one of the teachers.  But she shows up faithfully,
    and although she doesn't have planned activities, she does read to and
    color with and keep them quiet and happy.  

    I suppose it helps that a few of our members used that day care and
    knew the staff, and one of our members works there.

    My wife managed our small church's nursery for a year.  She found the
    greatest success (and longevity) with paid workers from the local
    colleges and supplemented this with teenage church volunteers.
    
    The college students that are hired enjoy being with children -
    something that they miss in the collegiate environment.  They also
    have great ideas for keeping the children entertained - books,
    crafts, stories.
    
    Pure volunteerism did not work well (unreliable) and newspaper
    classified ads were a waste of time and money.

    I know you didn;t ask but...
    
    Take them to church. When the apostles objected, He said:"Suffer the 
    little children to come unto me." I give the same answer to christians 
    who complain....

   We have a fairly large children's population at our church - there's
   lots of families with multiple kids - so here's what works for us:
   
   o We have a Nursery for the really young ones - up to about 3+ yrs
     old.  This is completely staffed by volunteers from the church -
     some adults with some of the high school and junior high kids as
     helpers.  We take a rotation approach to being assigned, and I think
     I get to go down there about once every 5-8 weeks, depending on how
     it works out.
   
   For the young kids - preschool through something (5th grade, I think),
   they all attend church at the beginning, and before the sermon starts,
   they go off to their own services.  
   
   [ There have been some parents who would have preferred a babysitting
   service so they didn't have to be distracted by the kids in the early
   parts of the service, but so far we have left it alone.  We figured it
   was a good way to help the kids acclimate to the church service -
   eventually they will be sitting through the entire service, and they
   need to get used to it somehow.. ]

   o There is a pre-elementary-school children's church for kids from
     about 4 through kindergarten.  This is a tough transition age-wise
     because some kids are home schooled, and some start kindergarten
     later than others, so its very flexible in regards to who qualifies
     to attend this one.  They average 25-30 kids down there every week.
     This is also staffed by volunteers who lead the lessons for a couple
     of weeks per year, roughly.
   
   o For the older kids - 1st grade through somewhere around 5th or 6th
     grade, there is a junior church service.  They have lots more kids
     in that room - I think its around 50+, but I'm not sure.  We have
     one couple who has run this ministry for a while now, but we are
     working on getting a team of people for backup and ultimately to
     take over when they decide to step down.
   
   Feel free to contact me offline if you have any questions..
   
   Regards,
   
   - Tom

    At our church, the service is structured so that the lessons and sermon
    come before the offertory and Eucharist. So the littles are brought in
    during the offertory to attend communion. Prior to that they are in
    nursery and children's church, depending upon age and attention span.
    The nursery is staffed by a paid person supplemented by volunteers on a
    rotation. Children's church is done by volunteer parishioners who
    choose to do this as part of their worship.
    
    Older children attend the entire service. There are no set ages for any
    of this; but, generally, very young infants are with their parents
    throughout the service, older babies and toddlers are in nursery,
    children's church seems to start between 2 & 3, and children start
    feeling children's church is really infantile between 5 & 6.
    
    We have tons of children, most of whom attend late service. We have a
    few parishioners who feel that young children have no place at worship
    until they can sit still, know the responses,and make their first
    communion. Over the years, these individuals have either learned to
    live with it or decided to attend early service.
    
      Annie

    re: .3 (STOWOA::SPERA)

    I can see that being an answer to someone who complains about children
    in general in church.  I do not think it is always the answer to the
    parent of an energetic child.  As such a parent I know that I get a lot
    less out of a service when the children are with me in the pew.  

    a funny story:  When we were little, like most siblings, my sister and
    I could be quite obnoxious while riding in the car.  On one Sunday when
    we were particularly frustrating, my mother skipped Communion.  After
    the service the vicar, himself a father of 5, asked her why.  She replied 
    that she had been ready to kill us and didn't think that was the proper 
    frame of mind to go to the communion rail.  His reply:
    	You should have come up and thanked God you didn't kill them.

	We've got a fairly large church, with an average of 250
	people at each of the two morning services.

	Our nurseries are fully volunteer.  This year, we've had
	one person who is a regular in a particular room.  That person
	usually works the nursery for one service and attends the
	other.  This gives the kids a sense of stability.  An additional
	volunteer (or two) helps in each room.  Right now, the rooms
	are divided into "under 1", 12-18 months, 18 months to 2 years,
	and 2-3 years.  From 3 years on, they attend Sunday School.

	Some volunteers work every 4 weeks (by choice); the rest
	of us work every 6 weeks.  Since we've got two kids in
	different rooms, my husband volunteers in my daughter's room,
	and I in my son's.  

	We have on woman who coordinates all the volunteers and schedules.
	A schedule is sent out every 3 months, and a reminder card 
	arrives around Wednesday of the week you are to work.

	It has worked out very well, and seems to get better each year.

	Karen

    Our church is similar to .7
    
    We ask that our volunteers serve once a month and we publish a
    quarterly schedule.  For instance, I serve in the nursery every 2nd
    Sunday each month...that makes it easy to remember!
    
    We do not have an exact age limit for separating the very young ones.
    We ask that our nursery is for "babies" only, up to the crawling stage.
    Once they can walk we move them into the "toddler" room, as walking
    "babies" can cause damage to crawling ones!!  And of course we allow
    lee-way for babies who are just taking a few steps and can be mowed
    down by 18 month olds!
    
    We also have teens assisting our "regular" volunteers.  But we have
    noticed that while their heart is in the right place, the experience is
    not always there.  So we have rules that our nursery is adult
    volunteers only, while teens are welcome to help in the toddler (and
    older) rooms.  (Obviously this has to be handled delicately!)  We also
    ask our teen volunteers to sit on the floor or in a chair when holding
    the toddlers, as they can be quite squirmy.  Some might consider this
    picky, but we've had a few near misses!!

    re: .6
    
    I'm there with you. Mine sat in the aisle as an infant, did liturgical
    dances in the pew when she was old enough to stand, and, at not quite
    4, is continuing to challenge me in church and at the dinner table.
    Last Sunday, she was jumping off the altar steps. 
    
    I guess I'm lucky that I'm in a parish where priests and parishoners
    allow that children come to the 9:00 Mass. The paster has told people
    who complain to try the 12:00...
    
    I continue to have faith that at some point she will internalize the
    rules and will be quiet, pay attention, pray, etc. She does remind me
    when we are in church to pray for my recenetly deceased father and she
    says she'll pray, too. So God is taking care of some of this.