Conference moira::parenting

    Carol,
    
    I don't really have any advice but I wanted to let you know
    that you are not alone.  Just last night, I was laying in
    bed thinking of a way  to help our son.  And I thought,
    "Boy, if we don't get a handle on this, he is on the fast 
    track to suicide."  It is so scary.  He is usually happy
    and friendly but every once in a while he just gets inconsolable.
    He gets so sad and it is heartbreaking.  Even my Mom, who
    lives thousands of miles away and only talks to him on the phone
    said, "Pam, something is wrong, he shouldn't be so sad all the time"
    
    It isn't all the time, but when it happens it lasts for days.
    
    Thank you so much for starting this topic, I'm sure we aren't
    the only ones with kids like this.
    
    Pam

    Carol,
    
    Just to comment on a segment of your story - my son (7) oftens gives us
    crap after we have treated him to something we think will be wonderful
    - Chuck E. Cheese, movie, trip to WAL-MART for a toy, etc.
    
    We puzzle over this as well. I'm not sure if its because we are hoping
    for such a wonderful outcome that he senses it and turns on us - often
    times I want to be down on the experience just to see if it will cause
    him to be happy!
    
    Just wanted to share the common feeling we get too...my be a function
    of the age.
    
    Also reviewing you story...you say he is usually fine - how much time
    is he down (%) - are both of you focusing in on it as you mentioned you
    had made a special effort of late?
    
    Best
    
    JR

    Carol,
    Another "it happens with mine son" story; hope these are somewhat
    helpful -
    David is 5.  On occassion he does the same thing as you describe -
    after a trip to someplace special we get the "I didn't have any fun,
    nobody played with me, it was too short" etc.  Also, when picked up at
    daycare I like to chat about his day and sometimes hear that he didn't
    have ANY fun.  
    The two remedies I've developed, which seem to have helped:
    1. We don't tell him if we are going to take him someplace special.  I
    feel it only serves to get his hopes WAY up, and if it wasn't as
    wonderful as his imagination tells him it will be, he feels cheated. We
    make it a surprise, then he remains delighted for hours after.
    2. Ask him in front of his after-care provider how his day went. One
    day he told me he didn't have any fun, didn't play with anybody, and
    she reminded him of all the fun things he did.  In the car on the way
    home I can't possibly do that, but she is there and can remind him of
    concrete examples of fun, then I can go into more detail in the car
    about the fun things.
    Have you talked to his pedi about it?  Might help to hear that it's a
    stage, or maybe you can get some information about warning signs of a
    true emotional problem.  
    Sarah
    

    
    
    My daughter is not pessimistic but she likes the drama of
    "being wronged".  Nobody likes me, think I'll go eat worms.
    "It's just not fair" is her favorite refrain.
                          
    Instead of asking her how her day went, we ask her what was
    the nicest thing to happen to you today.
    
    I agree with the previous reply about not telling about someplace
    special until you are there.  My husband, on the spur of the moment
    went to Whalom Park on Columbus Day last year and my daughter still
    talks about how much fun she had.  
    
    

    Carol,
    
    I don't have any solutions for you either, but just wanted
    to check in as a mom of a 5 yr old that displays many of
    the behaviors in this note.
    
    Sarah, thanks for the pointer on "surprises".  I love to
    plan things and enjoy looking forward to the event.  Next
    time I'll keep it to myself and surprise him.
    
    We actually did do that on Monday and he had a great time
    come to think of it.
    
    		Linda

    Just something to consider, there is a condition called "mask,
    childhood depression."  It is a real, physical condition which is
    treatable.
    
    

    I try to keep in mind something that Brazelton said, too - something
    to the effect that kids save all their emotions for their parents. 
    That's why I think the idea about asking in front of caregivers is
    a good one. 
    The only other thought I had was whether or not this may be related
    to your move ? Was he like this before?
    Sue

    
    I think it's the age....
    
    Chris was exactly like that from ~5.5-7  It was AWFUL!  Nothing was
    good enough, no matter how wonderful something was, there was something
    wrong with it.  When ytou asked him what was wrong he'd complain about
    things that he really was just making up.  It almost seemed like he
    WANTED things to be wrong/bad.  He's 9 now and things have been *MUCH*
    better with him!
    
    BUT, Jason, who's 7 this w/end, has been stuck in this same mode for
    about a year now.  
    
    I don't know what changed Chris, other than he seemed to grow up a lot. 
    Jason is clearly struggling with going from "being a little kid" to
    "being a big kid".  He WANTS the things little kids like and the
    attention, and he wants the extra "neat" things that older kids can do. 
    BUT he doesn't want to be "babied", and he doesn't want any
    responsibility.  I chalk it up to some sort of babyhood-to-kidhood
    puberty, and pray we'll all survive!!
    
    What's Masked Childhood Depression??
    
    

    Masked Childhood Depression is real, physical depression in a child. 
    However, it is often disguised and misdiagnosed as, "its a phase,"
    "it's normal for kids to feel blue," etc.  
    
    Things can be a phase, and kids do feel blue and they don't need to be
    medicated.  But.... when or if this phase goes on month after month for
    a longish time, it needs to be investigated.
    
    If this happens in an older child, they will often try to compensate
    for it by being in solitary hobbies, while not having friends or many
    friends.  However, that has to be balanced because some people are
    that way without being depressed.
    
    It is a condition that needs very careful diagnosis.  It is fairly
    common in families where one parent is an active alcoholic and there is
    a lot of confusion and mayhem going on.

    This sounds really hard for you!  Maybe it's nothing much in the course
    of his life, a phase or something, but if your gut feeling tells you
    something is not right, I think you should act on it.  As parents, our
    gut feelings are usually so accurate!
    
    How about talking with a professional who specializes in children?  It
    sounds like this is a good time for that, based on your concerns.
    
    I would limit the pedatrician's advice to medical things only - there
    are so many areas that they are NOT experts in, and they don't always
    admit that.  
    
    I've seen amazing cases of kids bringing up something in counseling
    that you NEVER would have thought would be bothering them, then they
    are free to move on.  
    
    What could it hurt?  
                 

    Ryan (6 1/2) is similar in many ways to Evan. He's a first child too,
    and I wonder if that has something to do with it, since I believe that
    we parent our first children differently, in addition to whatever their
    personality may be.
    
    .7 or .8 touched on something that hits me all the time - kids do
    indeed save a lot of their emotions/reactions for their parents,
    knowing on some level that we will and do react. I am constantly
    reminding myself to let Ryan have his reaction to something without ME
    responding to that reaction (real co-listening).
    
    So, I find myself wondering at times if he's a moody kid or depressed,
    when I think what he may be doing is simply expressing a feeling and
    then waiting with the feeling "out there" to see how I will react.
    
    One book I have purchased but not yet read :-) is called "Playground
    Politics: The Emotional Life of your school-aged child". I'll take a
    look through the index tonight and see if there is anything relevant.
    
    Lynn
    

Thank you all for your feedback.  I feel *so* much better!!!!

This weekend went well, with no problems.  Evan was in a good mood, played
a lot both with his brother and with a neighbor (and with us), and was
generally a happy, playful kid.  I suspect that most of the time the days pass
just fine, and that it's just that when I have the highest expectations (when I
have done something I expect will make him very happy) is when I really notice
his complaints and sadness.  The words that he uses sometimes, though, are what
have been frightening me.  I will keep an eye on how often this actually occurs
now.  :-} 

Most of the descriptions I have seen here are *so* "Evan"!  He doesn't want
the responsibility of chores, wants help doing everyday tasks, but wants to
start his own business!!  He overgeneralizes his bad times (his whole day 
is "terrible" if one thing goes wrong), and "it's not fair!" is one of his
favorite phrases (even when something is *especially* fair/appropriate).

There have been a lot of really good suggestions here.  I will certainly try
them.  Therapy is something we have considered, but I don't think it will be
necessary at present.  I think these notes have helped to get me out of 
"fear" mode, and more into a clinical "let's see how often this *really* 
happens and what is really going on".  It's possible that if there is something
triggering it, we can deal with it without therapy, and if it's just a "phase"
then we won't worry so much.  Your suggestions will help us a great deal in
figuring this out and perhaps helping him to see things in a happier light.

Thank you.  :-)  (and other input is welcome for myself and others, too,
especially when based on personal experiences like these responses have been)

    Carol

    My 6.5 year old had bouts of negativism fairly regularly for several
    months last summer/fall.  He even got to the point where, if
    reprimanded for something, he "didn't want to live anymore".  Pretty
    scary.  Rather than focus on why he felt so negative, I set my sights
    on what he should feel positive about.  When he would feel very down, I
    would sit with alone with him, and we would "count his blessings"
    (i.e., he's healthy, strong, smart, has parents who love him very much,
    Nana, Uncles & Aunts, lots of fun toys, roof over his head, etc.) and
    compare his life with that of really underpriveleged kids (homeless,
    etc.)  It works quite well for Joe, at least.  He still gets into that
    down mood now and then, but not nearly as often.  When we do our
    blessing count now, Joe is the one doing the counting, too; I don't
    have to remind him about all of his advantages anymore, he comes up
    with his own.
    
    Probably won't work for every child, but it works for mine.  I do
    think, however, that it is probably a result of a very stressful
    time in a child's life, when they still feel like "little" kids, but
    must suddenly become more mature (appropriate behavior in school,
    homework, chores, etc.).  Of course, if you add any other household
    stresses (parent(s) changing jobs, new baby, new house/neighborhood,
    death in family, divorce, etc.) that makes it much, much more obvious.
    
    Just IMO.
    
    M.
     

This is an update on Evan, who is now 7 years old.  It was 2 months ago today
when I wrote the basenote.

Things are better.  I started paying attention to how often he really 
complained like he was doing, and I also started implementing some of the
suggestions you all made (like surprises, and different ways of asking about
his day).  I noticed that after I wrote my basenote, it was over a month
before he told us anything really negative.  The rest of the time he was
pretty good, even saying a day went well.

Recently, his teacher got a taste of this, though.  Evan has been writing
in journals at school nearly daily, where they draw a picture and write a 
sentence.  He wrote "I hate my life."  The teacher, concerned, let us know.
Last night I was working with him on reading, with the books the teacher sent
him with him (every Thursday the kids bring home some of her books, to be
returned Mondays).  He was getting very frustrated, and when we took a break,
I noticed some schoolwork that he had brought home which I couldn't read
(his spelling is quite imaginative  :-)  ).  I asked him to read the things
to me.  They all started with "I like" or "I like it when", and then the kids
fill in the rest.  It turned out that one of the things he said was "I like
that I am dumb" and the other said something like "I like it when I say that I
hate everything." *He* then brought up the journal entry of "I hate my life",
which he didn't know that we knew about. 

I asked him what he hated so much, and twice the only thing he could come up
with was school work.  He is feeling quite "dumb".  The other kids read better
than he does, he had told us a few weeks ago.  He also told me last night
that he pays attention in class, but he still doesn't understand the work.
He said the other kids know that he is dumb (or that he doesn't understand,
I don't recall now), and that they told him so.  He didn't recall what they
said exactly, and at one point denied that they had said anything to him
("then how did you know that they knew you didn't understand?" "Because they
told me." -- talking with 7 year olds can be...interesting  :-)  ).

Of course, nothing I said convinced him that he is not dumb.  Nor would he
acknowledge that he has any academic strengths at all.

Soooo, the good news is that we have a clue where the "I hate my life" is
coming from.  The bad news is that low self-esteem is a hard thing to overcome,
and good self-esteem is apparently a hard thing to teach (at least it seems
like it to me so far, since this is something I've tried to give him from
the very beginning).

Any other thoughts or ideas on how we can help him?

     Carol

    Carol,
    
    Creative spelling shows a great deal of thought, but I agree it is hard
    to read until you go phonetic.  (sort of, as kids hear words
    differently than we do sometimes)  could part of his problem with this
    be coming from a dialect difference?  He learned most of his language
    and processing with it out here and, if he is like me, a thick New
    England accent is hard to get through at times.  he could have problems
    processing the words since they sound "different" than what he has
    grown up with.  
    
    This is just a thought.  The other thing you can do is to encourage him
    to read you a story at night and try not to correct his pronunciation,
    unless he asks for help with a word.  alternating his reading to you,
    with reading another story on other nights, or trading pages to read is
    something Carrie and I did when she felt she wasn't "getting" reading.  
    
    meg

    Well, Carol, the book I lent you hopefully will have lots about a 7 yr
    old's emotional life :-)).
    
    One of my sisters is a school psychologist. At a recent conference she
    attended, one speaker talked about the 6-8yr old mentality - they tend
    to be very "guilt" focused, i.e., will give themselves the most severe
    penalty about things, and are verrry judgmental, also especially about
    themselves.
    
    Ryan made a remark similar to Evan's, when he brought home his report
    card. Overall it was excellent, but his comment was that he's a dumb
    speller and should have had all good marks.... pretty harsh. What I
    tried to do was let him have his reaction, but also made sure he heard
    mine (which differed noticeably!)
    
    Lynn
    
                        

    Carol,
    
    I am attending a class right now at Assabet for Behavior Managment and
    one thing that has been focused on is self-esteem for the child.  One
    thing that I have learned is encouragement versus praise.  According to
    the specialist, praise puts the focus on the parent and the child has
    to constantly look to the adult for acceptance/approval and self worth. 
    When you encourage the child you are helping the child build his/her
    self esteem.  If you want, send me your mail stop and I will send you a
    copy of the handouts from class.
    
    Roberta

    re .17
    
    The books by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish also focus on using
    descriptive praise rather than evaluative praise; they have a lot of
    suggestions for how to work that in.  One is "Liberated Parents,
    Liberated Children"; another is "How to talk so kids will listen and
    listen so kids will talk".  I enjoy reading and re-reading these books
    a lot.
    
    Beryl

    
    This may not be the place to write this, but my daughter seems to have
    a negative attitude about herself as well, and it is related to SCHOOL
    work.  If this should be in a different topic, please let me know and I
    will move it.   The negative attitude is real scary and I really do not
    know how to deal with it either.  
    
    re .14
    My heart goes out to your son.  My daughter (8 years old) has some
    similar problems in school.   She is always saying that she is so
    stupid and that everything is so hard for her.  Reading (at the
    beginning of the year) was very hard for her.  But with encouragement
    and with diligence, she has improved her reading 100%.   She is still
    not doing as well as some of the 2nd graders in her class, but there
    has been such improvement that it is amazing. My daughter (I feel) is
    "borderline" ADD.  By this I mean, when she was tested, she had some
    scores that indicated ADD, but then again she has some scores that
    negated ADD.   So, she is not on medication. 
    
    She does get SPED in school.  At the beginning of the year, her IEP was
    that she would receive 30 minutes a day/5 days a week with the SPED
    instructor, just to work on reading and reading comprehension.  At
    home, I encouraged her every night to read, and even when she didn't
    feel like it, I would read to her.  Some nights she would read a page
    and I would read a page, just to encourage practicing.  This work has
    helped tremendously although she does still struggle at times.  Along
    with reading help, she was also receiving Speech therapy and 2 days a
    week they helped her with math.   In January, she was re-evaluated, and
    it was determined that rather than focusing on reading every day for 30
    minutes, they would concentrate on Math concepts.  Math is an absolute
    nightmare for her.  (The way reading use to be).   She seems to have no
    comprehension about math (addition and subtraction only at this time). 
    Money concepts also gives her a very hard time.  She knows that a
    quarter = 25 cents, dime = 10 cents, nickle = 5 cents and that a penny
    = 1 cent. But, if you give her a quarter, dime, nickle and penny and
    ask her what her total amount is, she can not tell me.  She just
    doesn't seem to comprehend that she can add 25 + 10 = 35,  then add 35
    + 5 = 40, and then she can add 40 + 1 to get a total of 41 cents.  She
    has the same problem with just adding or subtracting 2 numbers as well.
    It doesn't have to be adding/subtracting money. I am at my wits end
    because I don't know how to help her comprehend this and homework
    becomes an absolute nightmare when she has to do math of any type.
    
    Her attitude about math really scares me. Encouraging her to work on 
    math isn't near as easy as encouraging her to read. I am really 
    worried about her going into 3rd grade next year and being introduced
    to multiplication, division, fractions when she doesn't seem to even
    have a basic understanding of addition and subtraction. I am not a
    teacher, so my ability to teach this to her is very limited, not to
    mention that fact that her preference would be for me to just tell her
    the answer, not explain how to get the answer.  But, I do try to help
    her even though she would just prefer not to do math.  Some nights, I
    end up having her just put the homework away, because the ordeal is
    just too traumatic.  Not just for her, but for me also.
    
    I guess what I'm trying to say is that School work and how well they 
    do or don't understand it does have a major impact on their
    self-esteem, especially when they are trying to compete with other
    children their age. I see every day that the saying that "Children are
    very unforgiving and cruel" is true.  I'm looking for answers as well
    on how to deal with negative attitudes when my daughter starts claiming
    herself as  stupid or dumb.   I tell her "that she isn't stupid, and
    that it really makes me sad to hear her say that about herself."   I
    also tell her that "yes you do have some difficulty with understanding 
    math (or reading) concepts but this doesn't make you stupid. It just
    means that you need a little extra help to be able to comprehend the
    concepts, and that this is why you are receiving SPED help to help to 
    have a better understanding of these concepts."   It doesn't seem to
    help much.   All she sees is that she doesn't understand and that the
    other kids do.
    
    Good Luck.  
    
    Sarah
    
    
    
    

    My two youngest are both in Chapter 1.  I had the impression this was a
    federal program, but maybe not.  We are in Merrimack NH.  Qualifying
    for Chapter 1 depends on test scores.  If you are not up to par with
    your classmates in reading or math, then the teacher may recommend the
    child for Chapter 1.  My middle child qualified for Chapter 1 in
    reading last year when she was in 1st grade.  It was wonderful.  She
    went, almost overnight, from "I hate school I never want to go back" to
    "I love school."  The Chapter 1 reading class meets at the same time
    that the classroom is doing reading.  The Chapter 1 class follows the
    same curriculum, but has a much lower teacher/child ratio so the
    one-on-one attention is more frequent.  There is a lot of game playing. 
    Last week there was a make-it-take-it night.  The kids went into the
    auditorium to hear a story teller, and the parents gathered materials
    and directions for making math and reading games.  

    My daughter started out in 1st grade with the Chapter 1 program.  It
    was determined that she needed further attention for many subjects,
    which is why they went to an IEP for Special Education.   The work that
    they did with my daughter (for reading) has been terrific.   They only
    just started working with her (for math) on a daily basis.  Hopefully
    with time, she will comprehend mat better and this won't be an ongoing
    problem for the rest of her life.   I really feel so bad for her.  Math
    was never one of my strongest points, so my ability to explain it to
    her is limited.   I'm thankful that the SPED program is working with
    her on a daily basis now.
    
    

re .19:
    Would it be possible for you to sit in on some of your daughter's sessions
    on math at school, to pick up some of the techniques they use?  I
    volunteer in a first grade classroom one day a week at my son's school,
    and I learn a lot from seeing how the teacher and various specialists
    work with the children.  Also, it might be easier for your daughter to
    have similar techniques used at home as she is used to at school.

    Also, my son's teacher really stresses the "everybody's different, that's
    ok" message in her class (sometimes I hear echoes of this in things he
    says outside of school).  If your daughter's teacher knew your daughter was
    getting teased, she might be able to work with the class to reduce that
    (I don't think it's possible to eliminate it entirely, but at that age I
    think most cruelty is unintentional - the kids just don't realize that what
    they are saying is so hurtful).
    
				cheryl

    re .22:
    
    I would love nothing more to be able to sit in on my daughters classes
    to pick up some of the techniques they use.   My problem?   I live in
    Westminster Ma., where my daughter goes to school and I work in Hudson
    Ma.   We have a 45min - 1 hour drive one way depending on traffic.  We
    only have 1 car, and my Husband works in Hudson too.   At this point it
    time, this is not an option.   Thanks for the idea though!  Hopefully
    if we get a 2nd car, then I'd be able to do it.
    

    (I hope I don't rat hole this.....)

    One thing I don't understand is why both my 1st and 2nd grader needed 
    Chapter 1 for reading.  We have read to them nightly since they were
    babes in arms, and often during the day too.  Isn't that supposed to do
    mega-amounts of inspiration?  (That's only partly in jest.)

    As to math - most board games help, and are fun.  Things like shoots
    (sp?) and ladders.  We also have a PC game called MathStorm, or
    something like that.  It's from the same people who put out Reader
    Rabbit.  Card games can teach relation and order and sorting.  Cooking
    uses math too.  Even collecting stickers can involve math.  

    As to sitting in class .... why not take the day off?  Then you'd be
    free to spend the whole day at her school, roam around, have lunch with
    her ??  Maybe there's a friend nearby who could pick you up if you got
    COMPLETELY stir crazy (-:
    
    -Patty

Carol, you may have already done this, but have you had Evan's eyesight
checked?

<Carol, you may have already done this, but have you had Evan's eyesight
<checked?

Not since we were in Colorado, so it's been almost a year.  I should probably
do this, though I don't think it's the problem.

Meg, I also will consider the accent.  I don't recall his teacher having much
of an accent, but the helpers and other teachers might.

The thing that's so really strange to me is that Shellie and I both think
that Evan is doing really *well* in reading.  He can read tons of things,
and though he gets mixed up a lot on what/that/there/these etc, we think
he still reads far better than we did when we were in first grade!

     Carol

    Carol,
    
    dont forget it isn't only the teachers' accents, it is the kids.  
    
    Evan's accent is probably quite different from what they are used to. 
    lolita had this problem when she went to college in VT and was the only
    person there from west of the Mississippi, with the exception of a
    person from Louisiana she was the only person there not from New
    Engalnd and she and Rea got quite a bit of teasing at first.
    
    meg

    Good point.  Alex has lived her whole life in central Massachusetts but
    doesn't have "the accent"--because I don't, because my Seattleite Mom
    wouldn't allow it!  Kids in Alex's 4th grade class are still asking her
    what kind of accent *she* has, and where she comes from.
    
    Leslie

(continuing the rathole slightly further)
>    One thing I don't understand is why both my 1st and 2nd grader needed 
>    Chapter 1 for reading.  We have read to them nightly since they were
>   babes in arms, and often during the day too.  Isn't that supposed to do
>    mega-amounts of inspiration?  (That's only partly in jest.)

My daughter, Rosa, also ended up in Chapter 1 in second & third grade
(she's a freshman in high school now, doing well in Honors English).
We read to her constantly from babyhood.  My suspicion?  By the time
she got to first grade, we had read the Narnia series to her (twice), the
first 4 books of the Oz series, some science fiction stories, etc. --- things
much more exciting than the books that she could read herself; even though
the books they use in school now at least use reasonable English
(as opposed to the "See Jane run. Run, Jane, run!" of my childhood).  So she
really had no great motivation to read.  By the end of third grade this
had straightened out (to my great relief).

(btw the first book she voluntarily read was "Sara's Unicorn" (I think that's
the title) by Bruce Coville; when I met the author a couple of years later,
I fell all over myself thanking him for writing it!)

Bobbi

    re: .14, etc. --
    
    Have you talked to your son's teacher about his feelings of "dumbness",
    etc.?  If this is just underconfidence (see Joe's story, below), his 
    teacher and the aides are in the absolute best position to
    help Evan show himself and his peers that he really can shine in
    school.  If, on the other hand, Evan really *isn't* catching on as well
    as he should, you need to talk that out with the teacher and work on
    finding out where Evan's disconnect is.
    
    My son, Joe, is 6.5, in a mixed 1st/2nd class, and is not exactly in
    love with school.  My problem is a little different.  The only thing he
    has a major underconfidence with (at this time) is his handwriting
    -- he's a lefty in a world full of righties, and they "do" cursive
    right off in his school, not printing.  
    
    However, at the beginning of the year, my very, very bright, creative
    son's stock answer to any request or assignment from his teachers was
    "I can't do that" or "I don't know how".  All of it was a matter of
    underconfidence.  Once the teachers *really* worked with him and teased
    him into trying, he found he did very well in reading, math and
    science, but he still struggles with creative writing tasks.  This is
    his curse, his bete noir, and he's making progress every day.  I have
    thought for a very long time that the disconnect on creative writing is
    in the handwriting.  I talked this out with his teacher, and we agreed
    to let him try doing his nightly homework on the computer keyboard for
    a while, since he is very computer-savvy, and it bypasses the cursive
    issue.  It would be one less thing for him to worry about.  
    
    It has been working very well, but involved some ramp-up time, and lots
    of parental patience, since (a) he had never used word processing
    before, so there's a learning curve in MS WORD, and (b) his prior view of 
    the computer was as a game-machine, not a work-machine.  
    
    Take some time to work with his teacher, and you may find you can
    resolve Evan's issues quickly.  Perhaps his teacher doesn't take time
    to "notice" him when he does well, only when he doesn't.  Perhaps
    Evan's expectations of himself are too hight.  A frank talk (alone)
    with his teacher will help you discover whether Evan's feelings are 
    unfounded.  If they are, request a parent-student-teacher meeting,
    where Evan can hear directly from his teacher what his strong points
    are.
    
    M.
    

That's a good idea; thanks.

I did write to the teacher, but her note back did not address the issue
as I hoped it would.  She seemed to think it was a more recent thing, and
blamed it on the fact that someone else has been doing most of the teaching the
last couple of weeks.  She thought it would just take time to get him over this
bad self-esteem issue, and made it sound like it wasn't unusual, but also
didn't give me a clue as to what *she* would do about it.  It really sounded
like she thought it would go away by itself. 

I plan to give her my work number so she can call me and we can have
a discussion about this.  I know she misunderstood at least one thing, not
realizing that my spouse and I always share what we know is going on with
the kids.  The teacher thought that I was unaware of her last note home
and my spouse's response.  *sigh.  I hope that the phone conversation will
clear up things like this, so the teacher can understand that this seems to
be the basis of a real problem, not just a 2 week problem.

I also spoke with Evan this weekend about his attitude.  It has become *very*
frustrating to me to hear him complain, so I told him that I didn't want to
hear "I don't like my life" or other things like that.  Instead, I wanted him
to say, "Mama, I'm hurting, and I'd like you to help me feel better." 
Hopefully this conversation won't have cut *off* communication, but will make
him find ways to feel better.  I am trying to teach him that there is good and
bad both in life, and that if we concentrate on the bad then we will feel 
worse, but if we concentrate on the good then it helps us feel better.
Last night, at least, he seemed in a really good mood.  

      Carol, who is reading Lynn's book, and reading and reading and reading

Carol,

IMHO, major life changes (e.g. moving) can trigger this kind of mood.  My
daughter had some significant amount of negativism when we changed her school. 
It always seemed worse when we tried to talk about it; it seemed like she
relished the attention she got when she acted that way.  (And me being the
analytical type, I frequently try to analyze everything, even when not
appropriate.)  We tried not to focus on the problem per se, tried to put more
positive things in her life, and she eventually got out of it.  She's been
really positive about everything lately.  Of course, changing schools is not
quite the same as changing states, but I think you get the idea.

Is Evan involved in any outside activities?  Does he invite friends from school
over, or is he invited over to their place?  All of these things can help move
his focus from himself to something he is doing.

I wish you luck; I understand your frustration with the situation.

						Brian

    re: -1 ...
    
    Absolutely agree!!  I know that Joe's self-esteem has also risen in
    these last few months because of his added social interaction with
    other kids.  Even though I do not need to pay for after-school care,
    because my retired mother lives with me, I send him to our local Kids
    Club at the park 2-3 days a week for the fun.  He has also recently
    begun playing more outside, being more independent, and his confidence
    is growing with all that.
    
    re: Evan -- I have to say that, although I can understand your problem
    with work and school conflict, IMHO, it would be very worthwhile to
    take a vacation day or half-day to meet in person with Evan's teacher. 
    Notes and the phone just don't work the same way.  If it is possible,
    it may even help to have your spouse there, too.  Body language
    and facial expressions are key indicators of how the teacher
    is relating to Evan and to his issues.  Negative or condescending
    feelings, for instance, come across more clearly in a person's stiff pose 
    and cool facial expression than in their vocal tones over the phone.
    
    Regards,
    
    M.
    

I've been meaning to write an update in here for *months*.  :-}

I basically just want to say that Evan has been doing really well these last
several months.  He has had a few bad days (who doesn't?) but not many.  
Although an entire day is still sometimes labelled "bad" because of 1 thing
that goes wrong, it doesn't seem to happen often.

Evan is no longer so horribly negative.  Many things have changed around him, so
I don't know what all has contributed; I suspect they all have.  There were
bullies bothering him; the ringleader is now gone.  The other bullies have
gained some appreciation of him (he can be good at a place in a videogame where
they aren't).  As far as I know, they don't pick on him anymore.

Evan no longer says things like "I hate my life" or other, terrible, blanket
statements like that.  His ups are just as up; his medium moods are the same;
his downs are not nearly so down (nor nearly as frequent!)!    :-)

I have done many of the suggestions that PARENTING noters have given me, and
read books which gave additional suggestions (thanks, Lynn!).  One of the
biggies is that I no longer tell him when I'm taking him somewhere fun, or 
at least, I don't tell him *where* we are going.  He doesn't like it, but
he remains excited, and he doesn't complain afterwards anymore.  He seems to
enjoy himself more!

There may be other factors, too.  His 3 year old brother has only been seriously
ill once in the last several months.  He started karate a few weeks ago with
a really good instructor.  He changed schools (which has its pros and cons).
We are establishing ourselves in the community more and so he is getting to
meet and spend time with more children, more often.  Lastly, his brother has
been sleeping with him (bunk beds) almost every night for the last several
weeks (months, I guess), and that keeps him from getting frightened at night.

Soooo, lest you think that Evan was still as down on life as he had been, 
I wanted you to know that he has been doing *so* much better!  I thank you all
very, very much.  :-)

       Carol

    Carol,
    
    I am so glad!
    
    i am also glad to here that Justin is doing so well.
    
    meg