Conference moira::parenting

    I remember the "lucky bag" when I was a kid and my parents instituted
    it.  I have done something simalar, but not quite.
    
    Anyway, we were warned when the clutter level got to what my dad
    considered extreme.  If at that point we didn't get it picked up, the
    toys went into the "lucky bag" for a week.  It didn't take long before
    we got the idea.  
    
    Now with mine, I tend to rotate toys on the kids.  We have catchalls
    for toys that are becoming scattered, and they stay out of active play
    for a bit.  We also have bins in Carrie's room, ie one for those
    infamous barbies and clothes, accessories etc, one for leggo's, one for
    trolls, etc.  it at least gives me  place to chuck things after I fall
    over them.  
    
    several places sell storage cubes, some of which also come with their
    own carts.
    
    meg
    
    

   We're starting to use buckets and storage bins ... various sizes and
   shapes depending on what is being stored... basically, what we've
   started doing is evaluating what the clutter-prone items are... 
   
   In our case, the biggest offenders appear to be blocks, Barbie stuff,
   Fisher Price Little People stuff, Play-Doh stuff, Cupcake Doll stuff,
   stuff that is related to specific speciality dolls and stuffed animals
   (well, more or less).  Anyway, what we've started doing is looking for
   these heavy hitters and deciding what sort of container is needed.
   Then we just get one and dump all the related stuff in that bucket and
   tell everybody where it belongs.
   
   Our kids seem to work better when they understand where stuff
   belongs... otherwise it ends up in the corners and all over the
   tables, and in general all over.  For reference, we've started using
   the small and medium rectangular storage bins (rubbermaid, I think?)
   and clear shoe-sized bins.  So far that seems to be working out, but
   time will tell.  
   
   First we have to find the floor in the play room and get things set up
   again to see how well the kids work with it all...
   
   Peace,
   
   - Tom

    Boy can I relate !!!!!
    
    We're in the process of moving. I took 2 car loads of toys to the new
    place and I'm not done!!! Christmas reaped a new harvest of Matchbox
    cars and puzzles....eeeks!
    
    My trick at home for toys with parts, is to get Cody to play with them
    on a felt backed vinyl table cloth. When he's done, I pick up the
    corners and pour the toys into the appropriate bucket. Particularly speedy 
    way to pick up LEGO's and Matchbox cars.
    
    I bought small brightly colored pails from the pain store. They have
    handles perfect for tiny hands.
    I also got 3 covered rectangular boxes at Rich's to store trucks, cars
    and wind up toys. We stack them, and Cody can peek in and select the
    righ box.
                                   

   Oh... something else to consider ... check the integrity of the
   container when you select something like that... 
   
   We've had more little buckets get destroyed than I can recall.  The
   ones that seem particularly fragile (to our kids, anyway) are the
   small, open, rectangular buckets that are designed like mini laundry
   baskets - the sides made of plastic slats just don't hold up as well
   as solid sides (for us).  I'm a little skeptical of the shoe-sized
   bins since they seem to be made of some sort of brittle (more
   breakable than flexible?) plastic, but so far we've had no casualties,
   so I'll reserve judgement on these.
   
   - Tom

    
    For things with small parts, and particularly games and puzzles, we use
    zip-loc bags.  They're WONDERFUL for keeping all the pieces together. 
    
    For bigger small stuff, we use show-size, clear, plastic boxes, that
    have covers.  In these we keep legos (not duplos, they're too big),
    loops for the loom-thing, action figures that have parts (like power
    rangers and their guns, or barbies would work too).  Then I have small
    baskets (look like laundry baskets, only much smaller), for things like
    cars/trucks, people etc.  And, the biggest help of all is *LOTS* of
    deep, but not high, shelving.  Stacking toys on top of each other just
    seems to be a mess waiting to happen, because as they pull out the
    bottom toy, the top one gets knocked over or dumped, or just left out.
    
    For picking up - I will usually split the room in half, and regardless
    of who made what mess, they each have to clean up half the room
    (they're 6 and 9).  This works pretty well.  If we're in a particular
    hurry, I might even offer to pay them if they can get it done in xx
    mins.  Bribery, but what the hell - I'd pay a maid if I could afford it
    all the time!  
    
    Provide hooks or nails to hang things.  Make sure that there's *AMPLE*
    space for everything they want to put away.  If it 'just fits', they'll
    never get it put away right.  And solicit them for help "You always
    leave these blocks all over the floor - what would make them easier to
    keep picked up?"  For things like blocks or duplos, if you can make a
    cloth bag with a tie string, then you can hang them (saves shelf space),
    and it's an easy carry-bag for them to bring with them.  Use different
    material - the kids will learn what's in each quick enough, and
    identify with the pattern on the material.  And finally - remove half
    of their toys!  They probably have twice as much as they can use anyway
    (-:  We used to have some storage in the basement, and we'd keep a
    bunch of toys in bags there.  When they got tired of playing with
    others, we'd swap them.  
    
    Finally, a lot of aggravation can be saved with toys that involve
    "tracks" if you can attach the track to something like a piece of
    plywood.  IE A race-car track, nail it to plywood, attach 2
    'screen-door' type handles, drill a couple good size holes in one edge,
    and you can hang in on a wall.  Then when the kid's ready to play, they
    just take it down, and it's all set up.  When they're done, back on the
    wall, and it doesn't take much space.  (closet walls work well for
    this, or even door backs).
    
    In general, things that stack toys 'deeply' (like a toy box), means
    that only the toys on top will get played with, and they won't even
    know what's in the bottom.  You're better off getting shallow
    containers.  Under-the-bed boxes are great for this.  I think it was
    Rich's that had a good deal on this, not too long ago.  ~$10.00 for a
    big under-bed box & 3 shoe boxes, made by Sterlite (sp?).
    
    Good Luck!
    Patty
    

    There's lots of good advice here.  I too use clear plastic containers
    with lids.  One of our rules is that before one toy comes out, one 
    goes back.  This avoids having legos, blocks, and Barbies to clean up
    all at once.  I don't like clutter and hate stepping on those darn
    things!  Ouch!
    
    Also, it helps if your kid is compulsive.  My daughter doesn't like 
    clutter either.  I can't imagine where she learned that???
    
    We'll see how this works with my son, who is only 7 months old.  
    
    Good luck!
    
    judy

    Judy,
    
    How did you get your daughter to abide by the "one toy goes back before
    another come out" rule?  My son, 4 1/2, will not live by that rule no
    matter how hard I try to instill it into him.  On the weekends, I must
    pick up his room about 3 or 4 times a day (because I can't stand to
    look at the mess on the floor) and by the end of the day, there's still
    about 5 or 6 different toys and all the pieces along with at least 5
    videos and the boxes.  Arrrgggghhhhh!
    
    Lori B.

    I found that getting a child to follow such a rule requires more from
    Mom and/or Dad than it does from the child.  And the parents in my
    house (my husband and me) were never properly trained :-)

    I was properly trained and always follow the rule myself.  I just can't
    seem to get my son to follow the rule.  I wouldn't mind but he has 8
    storage cubes, a couple of bins with covers, a corrugated cardboard
    shoe organizer which we've turned into cubbies for his toys a video
    shelf and a book shelf, so it's not very difficult to keep his toys
    organized.  Maybe he just has too much stuff!
    
    Lori B.

re: .8  Debby  

>    I found that getting a child to follow such a rule requires more from
>    Mom and/or Dad than it does from the child.  And the parents in my
>    house (my husband and me) were never properly trained :-)

   Hey... watch it!  I resemble that remark!!  :-)  :-)
   
   - Tom

    I'm sure it's all just a mistake.  We have plenty of other rules
    that are not followed!   Actually, she is better at this when I am
    around than when my husband is.  When I come home after they have
    been together it looks like a tornado went through the room.
    
    When I'm with her, we tend to do stuff together.  Much of it is 
    making cookies, painting, making collages, etc.  So, it's kind of
    natural to pick up one thing before starting another.  But I also 
    manage to get her to clean up the legos before bringing out the 
    Barbies.  She is *compulsive*, so that helps because I use her
    natural tendencies.
    
    Like I said, I'm sure I won't have this luck with my son!
    
    judy

We use storage bins too, and rotate toys out of the attic.
Something comes out, something else must go in.

On cleanup, we use the "must be picked up before bedtime"
rule.  Well, not actually bedtime, as you must suspect,
because that would be a great delaying tactic; before
the bookreading before bedtime.  Also, both kids clean up,
no matter whose mess it is. I figure, with 2 kids, it's
50-50 who made the mess.  We're also trying to push helping
each other and cooperating to achieve a common goal.

That's the carrot.  On the other hand, on tough days, there 
is the stick. They get one chance to pick up the toys.  They 
can skip books in order to play, but bedtime happens at bedtime.
Any toys picked up by grownups afterwards go into the 
attic for a timeout.  They can earn a toy back before the timeout
is over by doing extra chores to make up for not picking up toys.
Elise, at 4, gets the rules very well.  Sarah, 2, understands the
missing toy part, but not the earning them back part, so we
don't apply that to her.  Also, they get occasional vacations
from picking up toys, and we leave them until the next night.

As usual, it takes work on our parts, either to ride herd or to
pick up.

Pat

    My son loves his legos and now he doesnt mind picking them up.  We also
    have a large storage bin used for legos.  In the bin I put a dustpan so
    that Michael can easily scoop up the legos.  He actually enjoys picking
    them up.  Now I need to find a gimic for picking up the other toys.
    
    Rhonda

    Re: gimics for getting the kids to pick up the toys....We have tried
    (generally w/ success), the following:
    
    - start w/ the (insert favorite color here) toys....
    
    - see how fast you can pick up (or how many you can pick
      up) before the buzzer goes off, etc.
    
    Remember the old 'spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down' rule!

    I never liked toy boxes, so I got them 2 of those Little Tikes
    cupboards that have a shelf in them and doors on the top and on the
    bottom.  I think they are supposed to be bedroom furniture for kids'
    clothes, but they work well for toys. For things like blocks, I put
    them in empty baby wipe containers or a small box, and put those in the
    cupboards.  And we stack all their stuffed animals on top of the
    cupboards. From time to time, I go through and weed out the stuff
    they've outgrown.
    
    For art supplies, I got them each a large rubbermaid container with a
    cover [Jessica has a pink one and Brad has a blue one -- we color code
    everything at my house], and they put all their crayons which are in a
    baby wipe container plus all their coloring books, paints, stencils,
    playdough, smocks etc. in the box. This has worked out very well, and
    they know who's is who's and can take it out whenever they want it.
    
    For large toys, they each have a designated spot.  Brad's excavator,
    utility truck, loader etc. all get parked near the hearth, and Jessica
    puts all her doll related stuff in the doll carriage.  Brad has a
    matchbox storage box and Jessica has a Barbie doll case for catching
    all that stuff. 
    
    And this Christmas, they got the new Country Kitchen from Little Tikes
    plus all the dishes and pans, so we've organized the kitchen like
    Mom's and kitchen stuff stays with the kitchen. That's working out well
    because they used to drag all their cooking stuff all over and cook
    everywhere, but now they seem to localize at the kitchen.
    
    We also have a Little Tikes plastic bookcase that keeps all their
    books. I have all their toys in the family room, so we need to keep
    picking it up so we can all live down here. They don't bring toys up to
    their rooms to play.  
    
    It's still a challenge because they are only 3 1/2, but it is getting
    easier and they are learning that everything needs to be put away. Now,
    if I could just instill that in their father  ;)
    
    Cathy                                         

   Well, this seems to be the most likely place to start this subtopic...
   
   How do you organize the clutter that accumulates with craft projects
   and various papers?  
   
   Between the summer art program at the local library and Sunday school
   and a recent VBS and their own natural tendancies, our kids are always
   drawing or painting or doing something with wood or yarn or paper
   plates or markers or.... nearly anything.  And its not always neat,
   flat, 8.5x11 paper that can be filed away in folders....
   
   Any thoughts on this one?
   
   Thanks,
   
   - Tom
   

    We keep one art "bucket" for everything.  I got one of those see
    through plastic boxes with the snap on top.  Inside we have crayons,
    pens and pencils in zip lock bags, paper on the bottom and misc.
    decorative items also in zip lock bags.  You can see things on the
    bottom of the box and through the baggies to find stuff easily.  The
    only thing is, I have to "zip" the bag closed when its clean up time.

   Hi,
   
   Thanks, but that's not exactly what I was looking for.  We have a
   couple of buckets for art supplies and paints and such, but what I am
   asking about is what to do with finished art projects.  Stuff like
   collages or sculptures out of paper towel rolls and beads, or crowns
   out of paper and yarn, or anything else that won't store flat in a
   file folder somewhere.
   
   Thanks,
   
   - Tom

    
    Tom,
    
    Do your kids have a playroom?  Just use their artwork to decorate
    it.  Hang some things from the ceiling and put some on the walls
    etc....
    
    Then, as new items are made, you can swap out the old and put
    up the new.  I do this without telling Nathan and he rarely
    notices.  I put the artwork in a closet and if he mentions
    the thing that I've taken down within a couple days of taking
    it down, I put it in a box because it is important to him.  If
    he doesn't, in the trash it goes.  This may sound heartless but
    you can only keep so much stuff.  
    
    Pam

   Hi Pam,
   
   Yes, they do have a play room, but its too late for that... :-)  My
   kids have already learned the fine art of taping up craft projects all
   over the house... the kitchen and living room have more stuff on the
   walls than the playroom does...
   
   You said something about putting stuff away in a box - what sort of
   packing do you do, or is this temporary storage only?  What do you do
   about the 3-D projects -- stuff that won't store flat?
   
   Thanks,
   
   - Tom

    Lots of our 3-D stuff does get tossed -- if it doesn't get taken off the
    kitchen counter in a week or so out it goes.
    
    I've got one of those underbed storage boxes that eventually will get
    filled with everything that I want to keep and is now all over my
    nightstand (!).  It'll probably end up on a shelf in my closet but at
    least everything'll be in one place.

    I use the photocopy paper boxes from work.  They are big enough to hold
    a good amount of stuff and, some larger sized stuff.  They stack nice
    in the attic.  I mark the dates that the stuff was created and the
    child's name on the outside of the box.  And, they are free.
    
    Of course, this only works if you have a fair amount of storage space
    in the attic.  
    
    Also, I do tend to put it all in the box, and periodically go through
    it to get a representative sample of her artwork.  Also, I do date each
    piece and put her name on it as I put it away initially.
    
    I have been known to toss stuff that I know won't store well.  If it
    will be flattened beyond recognition, or has stuff glued that I can
    tell is just going to fall apart, it gets tossed.
    
    My sentimental husband wants to save everything, but I disagree.  Since
    I'm the one doing the work to save it, I win on this one.
    
    judy

    
    I'm a tosser .... it last a few weeks, and then if it's in the way, out
    it goes.  BUT, for those few things that I just can't be rid of, we use
    those plastic "tote" boxes.  One for school papers, and one for "art
    junk".  Sort through it occassionally with the kids to toss out stuff
    they REALLY don't want to keep, and then it just keeps piling up.  I'm
    still not sure WHY, but I suspect that the "throwing it out" will be a
    gradual process, and by the time they move out, they'll be little left
    in the "art sentiment" boxes. 
    
    If you're storing in your basement, I'd STRONGLY recommend plastic over
    cardboard.  Ames is having a great sale on storage boxes this week.  If
    you have more "fragile" stuff, you can check out a shoe store, and ask
    for any extra boxes they may have, and then put the cardboard shoe
    boxes in the larger plastic boxes.  Shoe boxes are ALL different sizes,
    and should meet your needs.  You could allot each kid a particular
    amount of space, and have them decide what they really want to keep or
    not.
    
    Good Luck!
    patty