Conference moira::parenting

    16 months old is alittle young for gymnastics IMHO.  I believe that all
    programs require that children are potty trained also.  
    
    (If your children are potty trained at 16 months, please let me know your 
    secret so I can try it on my son! :)
    
    I believe that they have parent/child programs at some schools for 2-3
    years old.  When I taught in the 70's and 80's we had 4-5 years old
    "tiny totts" and 6-7 "tiny tumblers" then they got into the "real"
    gymnastics after 7 years of age.  Things could have changed however.
    
    I would be very cautious about safety and ratio of instructor per child
    if you find something your interested in.
    
    cj (who taught for many years)
    
    

    I saw an ad for 1-4 years old at the Gym Nest in Acton MA so I guess
    they are out there.
    
    cj

    The daycare that my 2 yr old attends has the local gymnastics school
    come in once a week for a class.  They don't teach tumbling at all, I'd
    be pretty concerned if they did, she's not ready for it even if she does
    like to climb and jump and has tons more coordination than her mom. 
    
    Actually, they don't even "teach", what they do is get the kids moving
    and try to coordinate their movements.  They usually bring in a big
    parachute and have the kids grab hold of the edges and move in and out
    while trying to keep it in time to the music. There is a lot of
    stretching and bending, too.  I'd say it equates to a Gymboree type
    class.
    
    Susan

    
    I would think the YMCA in Nashua and/or Merrimack, NH would offer
    something like that.
    
    Chris

Yes, the Nashua YWCA offers classes like that *BUT*, and this 
really has me annoyed - there is only one Saturday class.  The 
rest are during the standard work week.  (ie, m-f between 8-5)

And, the Saturday class for my older daughter's age (almost 4)
is during the lunch/nap-time.  So, in order for my daughter
to participate, I have to lug along an almost 2 year old who
is hungry and tired.  In addition to that - there is no area
where I can play with the younger daughter while the older
one is in class.  (No nursery, no daycare). We would have to 
spend 45-60 minutes playing in a hallway somewhere.

*AND*, the desk attendant told me the Saturday class is usually
filled within the first day or two of signups.

I am very annoyed that an organization that is supposed to
support women is so blatantly ignoring us mothers who work
full-time outside the home.  We have even less time and flexibility 
than mothers who work at home or part-time outside the house, and 
you'd think they could do *something* to help us have quality 
of life too.  I think they could schedule at least one
class during the week at say, 4:30, which most of us full-timers
could work out somehow.  (I've got myself so worked up again, I'm
going to call them and talk with the person who does the schedule
planning).

BTW, while I'm on the subject, I also checked the Academy of Movement
(not sure on the name, used to be associated with the Nashua Center
of the Arts).  Their schedule is a little better, but not much.
Definitely more expensive.

I spoke to the person at the NCA who schedules *their* classes, and
he behaved as tho a light had gone on.  He was very interested in
what would be more convenient times for full-time parents, and said he
was going to take another look at the winter schedule to see what he
could do.

Sorry to rave, but I really find it frustrating.  Anyone who agrees with
me, please speak up or call these kinds of places and maybe we can make it
clear that there is a market for these services.

Pat

    I live in the Merrimack area, and also get angry over the lack of
    available times to full-time working MOM's.  I run into problems with
    scouting, reading programs at the local library, cluster's for CCD with
    our church, tutors I could go on and on.  Most recently I have called
    the Nashua School of Gymnastics.  Their availability and price is well
    within reason.  As a matter of fact I am registering my daughter
    (8yrs.) today.  The commute will be a pain, but at lease she won't have
    to miss out.  She'll be going on Wednesday from 4:45 to 6:00.  The cost
    for 4 weeks is $43.00.  If you add a second child you get a 10%
    discount.  The program sounds wonderful !
    
    They also match beginners with beginners, so your child doesn't feel
    left out.
    
    Good luck in your search !

    Speaking from experience...
    
    Non-profit organizations will run the least amount of money.  I ran
    the Acton Boxboro Recreation for a while and this program was on 
    Tuesday and Thursday afternoons and Saturday morning.  The hours were 
    4:30 - 5:30 beginners and 5:30 - 6:30 for intermediate.  After 
    intermediate I recommended to bring the children to a private school 
    and get the attention children need to further their skills, which 
    takes much more than 3 hours a week.  Saturday was run from 10-11 and 
    11-12.  I had to quit because I no longer could work 7-3:30 here and it 
    was too much for me in addition to working at DEC (70+ hours a week).
    I wish I could of quit DEC, gymnastics is my life long love.  However,
    most programs run after normal working because of children and their
    schedules with school.  It would be a great part time job that I'm
    hoping to continue once I am financially able.
    
    When I worked in Southboro, (SYGA, Southboro Youth Gymnastic
    Association) classes were from 4:30 - 8:30 (1 hour each with Team from
    7:30 - 8:30.. usually ages 8 and up) and Saturdays the children 4-6
    from 9-10 and 10-11 with team practice from 11-2.  This association is
    run by Ray LaChance and it was the most rewarding experiences of my
    life.  I highly recommend this association however, their prices will
    be higher than the non-profit organizations.
    
    Jean's School of gymnastics ran Thursday and Thursday afternoons from
    4:00 - 7:00.  Also Saturday mornings.  Their MAJIC team is focused more
    on team competition rather than individual competition which was when I
    left SYGA in hopes of finding a more playful program because once you
    reach a point where you a competing in State level competitions, the
    competition between children is stressful to say the least.  I could
    not deal with it and chose to have more fun with it and not make my
    life.  
    
    FWIW,
    
    cj
    
                                    

    
    I think there is another side of the story about 
    gymnastics or other extra curricular activity 
    establishment setting aside day time classes
    for lttile kids. Most of the kids these places
    emphasizeo n are school-age children. These
    school age children are the real "client", since 
    they are the ones being groomed to become the
    next national champion or something like that. 
    Obviously, they can't offer classes to a 9 year 
    old during the school hours. A lot of school age 
    children have softball, soccer, etc games on the 
    weekends. So, they have to cramp all the classes 
    for kids  ages 5 to 18 years during the week from 
    4:30 to latest 8:00. That is a tough schedule.
    School age children do have priorities over preschoolers. 
    My daughter is 9 and when she was younger I did
    my share of spending my Saturday mornings at
    the gym and at dnace studios, so I understand
    the frustration. Our Saturdays are free now, but I
    have to leave early 2 days a week at 4:00 to get 
    my daughter to her lessons by 5:00. Those 2 nights, she
    doesn't get home till 7 pm and she has to do
    her homework, eat her dinner and go to bed by 9.
    It is demanding for a kid. So, the other side is not 
    all the green either.
    
    Eva
    
      

    
    I used to get really excited about inconvenience
    to working couples, but over the years I realize
    people don't inconvenient us on purpose. Most
    of the folks want to be home with their family
    after work. So, I can see why a gym teacher
    will not want to teach class at 5 pm or later.
    I can see why a dance teacher will not teach on a 
    Saturday. I will not be working while my family is 
    home, for anyone convenience, if money is not
    a concern. 
    
    The way I see it, I have to accept the advantages
    and disadvantages of my decisions. The advantage
    of working is to be able to afford these lessons and the 
    disadvantage is to lose my freedom Saturday mornings
    to go these lessons!  I can't expect to have the cake 
    and eat it too. Life is not fair.
    

    Eva,
    
    This is why I chose to leave SYGA and attend a school in Hudson when I
    was a teenager.  First of all, it was a 40 minute truck for my mom to
    make three times a week and it never made sense for her to go home so
    she, I felt, neglected my two other siblings to help me in something
    that was no longer rewarding to me.  Once I reached high school, other
    things came into my life like cheerleading, dances (that were
    unrealistic for me to attend when competing on Saturdays) and the most
    obvious, BOYS!  It was too much for me making decisions about
    when I could see friends, have time with family at dinnertime
    and still have time to do school work.  Too many other things suffered and
    when you get to the point where competition is part of your sport, you
    have to make the most of your time to keep up with the competition. 
    Hudson offered less commuting time (10 minutes round trip) and more fun
    to competite with a team, instead of against the people on your team.
    
    Most schools try and find young gymnasts themselves to help out with
    the coaching.  This enables them to have part time work, and do
    something that they enjoy while not taking a parent out of their
    environment at home.  As you also pointed out, most children that go to
    privately owned gyms are attending school so the only time they have is
    after school.  Most parents these days are also both working full time,
    thus not enabling children to attend gym during the day.
    
    So your right, its not done on purpose.  Something to think about I
    guess.
    
    cj
    

Actually, I wasn't complaining about having to spend
a Saturday morning taking my kids from place to place.
I don't mind that at all.

I was complaining that the only Saturday class was at
the most inconvenient time.  When they have classes
starting at 8AM, they could do a little better.

>    School age children do have priorities over preschoolers

Why?  Preschoolers are human beings too.  School age children
are in school during the day, true, but preschool children
of working parents are also in "school" (daycare). Are you
assuming that there is a parent available all day to take
preschoolers to various activities?  This is exactly the
problem I'm raving about.

    
    re. 11
    
    I have gone through what you are going through now,
    I have learnt a lot about it and I am just sharing my
    understanding of these establishment with you. The following 
    does not represent my views on equality, workign parents, etc.
    OK, so don't smoke me. ;-);-) 
    
    There are lots and lots of parents spending lots and
    lots of money on their little girls hoping their little
    girls will be the next national champions. These parents
    will do almost anything to get their girls into a good
    establishment. So, if working parents cannot cater to
    these hours, well it is just too bad, there are plenty of
    little girls to fill the spots. This was what I was told
    some 5 years ago, when I was looking for places for my
    daughter to go to just have a good time!!! It didn't help
    especially when I was looking in towns where a lot of 
    mothers can afford and want to stay home. 
    
    School age children are given priorities in private gyms
    and dance schools, apart from school schedule thing, because 
    these kids are the "revenue makers", so to speak. People 
    running the gyms look at their bottom line first. They can 
    have a higher student/instructor ratio with older kids. Most 
    gym teachers prefer teaching real gymnastics, not playing games. 
    Some reputable ballet teachers  would not teach preschoolers, 
    they consider it a waste of  everyone's time. Also, it has 
    something to do with "senority", the longer the kids stay 
    in the establishment, the more $ they have spent already, 
    the more interested they are in the activity, thus the better 
    time slots!!! Preschool classes are fillers for the gyms and studios.
    These establishments are running a very competitive business. 
    Analogy - preschool classes as freshman classes in college,
    you get the worse time slots and just teaching assistants!!!
    
    Image yourself having a 10 year old competing in some events,
    you have spent gazillions of $ in this gym already, and you find 
    out your kid's class is on Sat at the most inconvenient time.
    You voice your displeasure to the gym. It is not just the $ 
    in this scenerio, the gym may be losing a student who may be 
    the future national champion and that wiil not be good for 
    their PR!! Now, I'm sure they'll listen to your concerns!!! 
    Get my drift?? ;-);-)
    
    This is really not very different from grooming your kid
    to be the next Pete Sampras or Michael Chang for some 
    parents and teachers...
    
    
    
    Eva
    
    

    -12, sad BUT well put.
    
    Check out non-profit organizations.  They, as previously mentioned in
    an earlier note of mine, specialize more in teaching of pre-schoolers
    and when the children get better, they should be told to go to a 
    private owned gym and get more out of it (and get more out of your
    pocket).
    
    cj