Conference moira::parenting

    Re:  .606  
    Are you really proud that you tried to kick a small bird?  And are you
    really trying to teach your child that hurting a small animal is funny?
    Maybe I'm missing something but I fail to see the humor in hurting
    small animals and then reinforcing in a child that its OK to hurt a
    small animal.
    

    I believe she said 'kicked at it' which was probably to scare it out of
    her way, not really kick it and hurt it.

    Thanks .608.  I'm read-only, but failed to see the
    humor in that as well.  What type of message does that convey to a
    small child?  That it's okay to kick at a living creature if it's in
    your way?
    
    Kick it or kicked at it... it's the same thing.  He could have just
    walked around it being a lot bigger than the bird.
    
    -Roberta
    

    I don't know - seems to me that it's not a very big deal.  Of course
    that is only my opinion, but if this is something ya'll are going to
    get upset about, I hate to see what would happen if something really
    bad happened ;*)
    
    I sometimes feel that maybe I'm a little too 'loose' with my daughter. 
    I don't sweat the small stuff, I know the background is there and that
    sometimes it really is FUNNY to burp at the dinner table or say Nah Nah
    nah nah nah... FWIW - I thought it was a funny story....but then
    again, like I said, I'm not uptight and don't sweat the small stuff.
    
    

    I, too, am pretty laid back, but I don't consider this to be "small
    stuff" at all.  I consider kicking another living being to be cruel.
    "Kicking at" another being is a means of intimidation.  In either 
    event, these are not messages that I would want to convey to my
    child.
    
    Leslie

    I wouldn't put kicking a bird and burping at the dinner table in the
    same category.  I think that respect for *all* life is a very important
    lesson to be learned as early on as possible.  When my son was 2,
    we saw a toad in the yard while we were playing baseball.  I pointed it
    out to him and he walked over and hit it (not very hard) with the bat.
    My husband and I were very shocked by this behavior because we had 
    always taught him to be very gentle with our cat.  We were very upset
    with him for this and talked to him very seriously about this. I don't 
    think he was aware at that age that everything is capable of getting 
    'boo boos'.  We watched over the frog for a while until we were sure
    it was ok and then put it somewhere safer.  I think this was one of his
    most important lessons.  He still talks about it.  Just my opinion.
    
    
    				Mary Russo
    

What about mosquitoes?

    re: .-1
    
    I knew when I hot ctrl Z that the bug question was coming.
    I guess that would be self defense:o)
    
    			Mary

    Well, as far as the bug issue goes, we try to minimize killing bugs,
    too.  I know that it's a judgement call, and perhaps hypocritical,
    but we emphasize that we only kill bugs when they can hurt us (e.g.,
    mosquitos, bees, etc.) and only then when it's absolutely necessary.
    
    Our son (2.5 years old) was excited to tell us the other day that he
    picked up a spider from inside our house and put it outside where it
    belongs.
    
    Leslie

uuhhh, i just read 14.606 and could almost hear tobias giggling. :-)

his mum probably never kicks anything, that's why that must've seemed so funny
to him...

was there something on burping contests earlier on in this string? yeah, i am
in to this with my youngsters (but only if their mum is out of the house of 
course!!!) 


regards,
andreas.

First, I've seen many, many, notes by the author of 14.606.  Every one of 
them reflects a deep respect for living things, especially children.

Second, I personally see a big difference between "kicking at" a bird to 
"shoo" it from a place it isn't wanted, and "kicking" an animal.  Unless the 
bird is very nearly dead, it is impossible for a human to even come close 
striking it.  Actually, the ineffectuality is what make it looks quite 
humorous to some; my guess is that's exactly what happened in 14.606 -- dad 
(I think it's dad) looked silly.  There have been many times that I've 
charged, shouted at, or "threatened" pigeons.  Intimidating, for sure, but 
they are themselves intimidating; they literally mob our bird feeder, 
frightening away smaller birds.  I feel no remorse about scaring away the 
pigeons.

Third, the issue around mosquitoes brings up an interesting point to me.  Not 
so much the mosquito thing, but for the vast majority of us we do things that 
may seem hypocritical to children.  I'm not talking just about slapping 
mosquitoes; I'm talking about when your child begins to understand that 
dinner was once a living breathing thing; that those chicken nuggets were 
something like the chickens in the story books.  I remember for us that it 
was very hard for my sister when she made the connection between the rabbits 
that we fed daily and woke up early in the morning to unfreeze their water 
dishes, and the "chicken" that we ate for dinner.  Has this been difficult 
for any of you?  How did you handle it?

Fourth, nature is itself cruel.  Was that a hard lesson for your kids to 
learn, or for you to explain?  We had a fascinating example last summer.  We 
looked out in our yard and saw a very large red tailed hawk literally tearing 
apart and eating a squirrel it had caught.  It wasn't the least bit concerned 
with us -- my son got within 15 feet of it.  When it left, we buried the 
squirrel.

Clay

      I think 14.606 may be a lesson of learning. It reminds me of all
    the times parents laugh at things their kids do, because it's their
    kids. But, if another child did the same thing it's not funny.
    
       This example wasn't funny, but my daughter and I had a hard time
    not to laugh while she was telling my grandson that what he did was
    discusting and not appropiate. He asked for an extra napkin because he
    needed to blow his nose (he's 4 years old and we were in a restaurant).
    While blowing his nose he decided to dig something out and loudly 
    annouced something. This is what he said (very loud), "Meme and mommy,
    look at the big b--gy I took out of my nose." I looked and almost
    died. My daughter tried so hard to tell him that it wasn't a
    very nice thing and that it grouses people out. He said. "Look at it,
    it's really big and neat." It was like he didn't care what she was
    saying. It was very interesting to him.  I laughed later when he wasn't
    around. Not at what he did, but because it was him and he was so
    cute and really determined for people to look. He was amazed for some
    reason.
    
        I have a feeling that is what happened in the case of 14.606.
    Sometimes we forget and have to get the situation in question together
    with appropiate behavior and what they are doing. If another child
    did what my grandson did, I wouldn't have thought it was funny at
    all. I didn't let him know that it was funny, but to me it was, because
    he's my grandson and I think that makes a difference.
    
        Just like the child seeing his parent do something that would
    have been terrible for someone else to do, but because the parent
    did it there was something funny about it.
    
       I hope this makes sense in what I'm trying to say. Lessons can
    be learned from experiences like this.
    
       Rose
    
         I think what happened in this case is pretty si

     .12
      
          The last sentence under my name the si (was going to be similiar)
    I messed up somehow and I'm not sure how to re-edit a reply I already
    wrote.
    
       Rose

    When I posted the note about the pigeon I knew that some people
    might take issue with it, but I posted it anyway.  After things
    have settled down a bit I'll post a reply to this string; that,
    of course, will probably start a whole new discussion :-)
    
    For those of you who weren't sure whether it's Dad or Mom, it's
    Dad (not that it should matter).