[Search for users] [Overall Top Noters] [List of all Conferences] [Download this site]

Conference moira::parenting

Title:Parenting
Notice:Previous PARENTING version at MOIRA::PARENTING_V3
Moderator:GEMEVN::FAIMANY
Created:Thu Apr 09 1992
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1292
Total number of notes:34837

734.0. "When to teach a child to read?" by MOIRA::FAIMAN (light upon the figured leaf) Wed May 04 1994 18:13

Topic 733, "How to teach a child to read?", quickly diverged into a discussion
on the appropriateness of teaching reading to a pre-school child.  At the
suggestion of the author of 733.0, I have created this companion topic and moved
the digressing replies to it.  If you would like the context to relate these
notes back to the original discussion, the first 734.5 was originally 733.8.

	-Neil Faiman, PARENTING co-moderator
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
734.1first grade reading is good enough for meCUPMK::STEINHARTWed May 04 1994 13:2639
    I hold the (probaby unpopular) opinion that early reading is not an
    advantage to a child, and may even be detrimental unless the child
    voluntarily learned on her own.
    
    I think that the linear thinking encouraged by reading detracts from
    the young child's normal holistic experience of reality.  And, I think
    there is no demonstrated long-term academic advantage to early reading. 
    (I define early reading as prior to first grade.)
    
    I think it is far more important for children to use their
    imaginations, develop good motor skills, learn a lot about the world
    around them, be well-adjusted socially, develop oral language skills
    including vocabulary, make music and art, and generally be highly
    self-confident by the time they get to first grade.
    
    If first grade entry requires knowing the alphabet, I think this is
    primarily for the school's convenience, not for the educational
    advantage of children.  When I went to school, we had no readiness
    exams.  We all learned the alphabet rather quickly and moved right on
    to the basics of reading.  I don't think the kids today emerge from
    high school knowing substantially more than we did over 20 years ago.
    
    There does SEEM to be an advantage to the cramming of learning in
    elementary years (as seen most dramatically in Japan), but I believe
    that this can wait until the child is five or six.  Let them play and
    be joyful until then.  Don't push early reading.  
    
    Read to children a lot, starting when they are babies.  Give them the
    joy and comfort of books.  Let them see you reading and enjoying it. 
    Expose them to the alphabet and numbers.  But don't push it.  
    
    I think the push for early reading and other more mature skills, such
    as playing the piano, figure skating, doing arithmetic, playing chess,
    and other typical "child prodigy" activities, are very unfair to
    children.  IF the child is highly motivated and shows unusual aptitude,
    that's different.  But for most kids, we should have more realistic,
    and more fair expectations.
    
    Laura
734.2LATVMS::BRANAMWed May 04 1994 13:5015
    RE nonlinear thinking: when my son plays with computer programs, like
    MS-Dinosaurs, he never does anything linearly. He is probably still too
    young to understand the concept of linear linkages well anyway, but he
    bounces from one screen to another, which is a mode of operation
    encouraged by the software (it also encourage linear tracking).
    
    Sometimes it is a little maddening to sit with him when he does this,
    because I will want to look at something related, and he will go off in
    some totally different direction. Of course, I am following
    relationships in the text on screen, which he can't read, while he is
    following pictures and sounds (and 3-year-old whim). I don't worry too
    much about this though, because as he comprehends relationships between
    screens, by whatever means, he starts following them. I am sure that he
    will begin following the textual relationships as well when he can
    understand them. For right now, he is exploring wildly.
734.3BARSTR::PCLX31::satowgavel::satow, dtn 223-2584Wed May 04 1994 13:505
re: .8

Excellent!

Clay
734.4Late reading instruction in Waldorf schoolsMOIRA::FAIMANlight upon the figured leafWed May 04 1994 13:58192
In Waldorf schools, early reading is actually discouraged.  In a Waldorf
classroom, children will be learning the alphabet in the first grade.  By late
first grade or early second grade, they will be copying passages from the
blackboard into their lesson books, and "reading" them back.  Formal reading
from printed books doesn't come until late second or early third grade.  By
third or fourth grade, the reading levels of Waldorf school children seem to be
generally consistent with children of similar age from other schools.  

(Despite this, I will admit that we did teach Elspeth to read when she was in
kindergarten.  We'd been reading _On the Banks of Plum Creek_, where Laura
Ingalls learns to read, and she decided that she could do that, too.  We got a
McGuffey's Eclectic Primer, and she basically picked it up right away.)

The following extract on the Waldorf approach to teaching reading is from 
pamphlet titled _Confessions of a Waldorf School Parent_ by Washington Waldorf
School parent Meg Gorman, which you can find in its entirety (along with some
other discussions on Waldorf schools) in the archived MOIRA::PARENTING_V3, topic
35.

        In the meantime, while I was on my high horse of self-improvement,
        my son had entered nursery school and my daughter had begun first
        grade.  Here I ran smack into a wall.  It was the biggest hurdle I
        had yet faced in Waldorf education:  the question of late reading. 

        Now, I am an English teacher and, as such, I have a large stake in
        reading.  Although, by my generation's standards, I read late at
        age eight, I find reading a joy, and it brings me some of my best
        moments. Because I find this such a satisfying experience, I am
        enthusiastic about sharing it with others, the sooner the better.
        I used to think, if I had read at age three, I could have had so
        much more fun and learned so much more.  Early reading must be
        good.  Just think of what a head start I would have had on life.
        Besides, there is such a wealth of literature out there for
        children.  Why not get into it as soon as possible?  Then there
        were those neighborhood mothers who bragged about their children's
        genius because their kids could read early.  Why not my kids too? 

        Waldorf pedagogy, on the other hand, feels that reading is
        generally unhealthy for children under seven.  In fact, it says,
        children should not begin to read until their baby teeth start to
        fall out.  This seemed plain silly to me.  I felt certain that the
        school would see my point of view when I discussed it with some of
        the teachers. 

        At first, I tried to convince the school that their approach to
        reading was archaic.  Surely they could be wrong about something,
        and this must be it.  When I first met my daughter's class
        teacher, he encouraged his class parents to come to him and
        discuss any concerns we might have about the education our
        children would be getting.  I often wonder if he ever regrets that
        remark where I am concerned.  At first, I was a bit shy; but I
        swiftly overcame my reticence as my sense of indignation rose on
        the issue of reading.  I took our class teacher at this word, and
        I peppered him with questions about reading.  He remained firm. 

        Early reading, he told me, got in the way of healthy physiological
        development.  He saw his task in the early grades as building up
        the child's physical strength, powers of observation, life of
        imagination and sense of security.  Then, he told me, the academic
        education which was to follow would find rich soil in which to
        grow, with the end result that the young person could make
        educated decisions and think with few prejudices as an adult.  He
        explained that the grade-school child is still incarnating, that
        is, coming down from another world.  Waldorf education tries to
        remove as many obstacles as possible for the child so that she can
        grow into the person she needs to be.  This means, loosely
        translated, not the self I had in mind for my child, but some
        mysterious unknown self which my child carried within her.  I
        squirmed.  I had heard this sort of thing before from the nursery
        school teacher and from various lectures.  This kind of
        explanation made me, an orthodox Christian, very nervous.
        Besides, it just didn't seem rational.  I tried to ignore these
        "spiritual" aspects of Waldorf education as the kooky stuff that
        some of the teachers believed.  It was difficult because these
        sorts of explanations came up over and over again.  It always
        seemed that, just as I was beginning to get a handle on Waldorf
        education, something impossible appeared.  The question of the
        incarnating soul was eerie for me.  I just didn't get its
        connection to late reading.  So, I swept my daughter's teacher's
        remarks under my I'm-not-ready-for-this carpet which was already
        bulging with Waldorf-related humps and bumps. 

        First, I had to get the issue of reading squared away.  In
        retrospect, now that my daughter reads well, the process which
        follows seems ridiculous.  At the time, it was urgent, and I spent
        many hours reading, talking, and thinking about it. 

        I understood that part of the reason reading was delayed at
        Waldorf schools had to do with the development of memory.  If one
        can read and write something, one need not remember the
        information.  The ancient story-tellers of every culture disappear
        as a civilization becomes more literate.  Was this progress?  I
        didn't know.  The children at Waldorf schools memorize a great
        deal.  Does this improve their memories?  My children's music
        teachers have commented on how rapidly our children memorize
        music.  Is this Waldorf at work?  I don't know for sure, but I do
        know that my children's memories are far better than my memory was
        at their ages. 

        And what about knitting, crocheting and other handwork projects of
        these early years?  These activities certainly improve hand-eye
        coordination which, in turn, helps reading, but couldn't the
        students read a little in between? There seemed to be so much
        artistic work in these early years that there was no time for
        reading.  "Self-discipline and will power are best learned through
        artistic work," came the answer from my daughter's class teacher.
        I know now that this is true.  Both of my older children seem to
        be quite responsible and self-disciplined.  I have had to struggle
        mightily for self-discipline as an adult, so I now see this as one
        of the major gifts of Waldorf education. 

        Still, back then, I wasn't convinced.  I was plagued with
        questions about reading and Waldorf education in general.  I still
        swept the difficult questions on things spiritual under my carpet
        of procrastination, but I had plenty of other things which kept me
        awake at night.  I had to admit that I admired the teachers whom I
        knew at the school.  They actually seemed worthy of emulation.
        Yet, could one teacher give a child what he or she needed over
        eight years?  [In a Waldorf school, a class stays with the same
        "class teacher" from first through eighth grade, although there
        are also special lesson teachers, especially in the later years,
        where they teach subjects such as chemistry and physics. - NF]
        And what about reading, writing, and arithmetic?  Should I keep my
        children at the Waldorf school for its warm, humanistic approach
        and have them tutored in academics on the side?  Should I continue
        to press my daughter's teacher in the hopes that he would come
        around on the issue of reading?  Was it already too late?  At age
        four, my daughter had started to read and had not been encouraged.
        Now, at age six, she had lost interest.  I went out and looked at
        other schools--something which has become an annual ritual for
        me.  I recommend it.  It always makes me realize how special our
        school really is. 

        Each time I came back to Waldorf because I sensed a depth and
        moral quality at our school that I seldom found elsewhere.  Each
        year I made a new act of faith and decided to go one more round
        with Waldorf education. 

        I also decided to do my best to cooperate with the requests of
        Waldorf education.  I left the television off, I did not have my
        children tutored (nor did I tutor them myself), and I continued to
        struggle for more rhythm in my life.  In the dark of the night, I
        prayed that I had made the right decision. 

        By day, in my own haphazard way, I continued to research the
        question of late reading.  I read around the subject and found, to
        my surprise, that many educators supported the concept of late
        reading, among them Bruno Bettelheim, David Elkind, Joseph C.
        Pearce and Jean Piaget.  Still, I wasn't sure.  I comforted myself
        by making lists of successful people who read late.  Literary
        people were well represented.  My list included Margaret Mead,
        Einstein, Churchill, Balzac, Lord Mountbatten, Mark Twain, George
        Washington Carver, and the great Irish writer William Butler
        Yeats, who was finally beaten into learning to read after the age
        of nine. 

        Finally, at the end of third grade, my daughter began to read
        well.  What she read amazed me.  Her standards were high and still
        are.  She plowed through the major children's classics until, at
        the end of sixth grade, she amazed me by beginning her summer
        reading with the two fat volumes of the _Complete_Sherlock_
        _Holmes_.  All for fun!  The entire business of late reading was
        no longer an issue for me at all.  In fact, I now find it quite
        inconsequential. 

        Recently, I ran across a quotation from another late reader, the
        wonderful English writer Sylvia Townsend Warner.  It comes from
        her recently published collected essays, _Scenes_of_Childhood_.
        She writes about her father: 

            He doubted--and very naturally, I'm sure, being a school
            master--the benefit of learning to read.  From the moment a
            child discovers that information can be got out of books, he
            averred, it desists from exercising its faculties of
            observation, memory, and thinking itself. So long after my
            contemporaries had become literate, I was left to be
            observant, retentive, and rational. 

        Thank God, I say.  Would that we all had these qualities to the
        degree that Ms. Warner has them.  Her father's points are well
        taken and echo more reasons why late reading is useful. 

        With the reading issue finally at rest, I tried to relax about
        Waldorf education.  However, the lumpy material under my carpet
        had piled up to such a degree that I could no longer ignore it.
        Like it or not, it was time to take a closer look.  With
        trepidation, I lifted the corner of my carpet to peek at the
        unpronounceable philosophy behind Waldorf education. 

    [End of Part I]


734.5All in good timePOWDML::WALKERWed May 04 1994 14:0013
    I too agee with .8.  I never encouraged my son to read early, however,
    I did read to him from day one.  He picked up reading easily in first
    grade and by the third was reading post-high school.  The potential was
    always there, but it was never rushed. 
    
    He has an incredible appetite for reading and at the ripe old age of
    12 he finally initiated the elimination of being read to a bed time.
    I think partly prompted by my always reading literature or Conan Doyle
    to him and he now has an incredible appetite for Science Fiction.
    
    My .02.
    
    Tracy
734.6CSC32::M_EVANSstepford specialistWed May 04 1994 17:1214
    Laura,
    
    I am a let-kids-be-kids type of mom, and I don't push mine to learn to
    read, but when they want to, I offer them all the help they want.  Want
    is the operative word here.  It also helps to remember all kids are
    different.  Lolita was a very early reader and writer, but she WANTED
    to read and write and got very frustrated when she couldn't.  Carrie on
    the other hadn had no interest in the printed word whatsoever until she
    was almost 6 (Late fall baby)  When she was less than two weeks from
    kindergarten, she suddenly wanted to start writing letters and wanted
    to know what they sounded like.  I let the kids drive when to lean, not
    when I think they should, and it works for them.
    
    Meg
734.7my philosophyCUPMK::STEINHARTWed May 04 1994 17:2922
    I trust my 3 1/2 year old daughter to develop at her own pace.  It is
    only natural for me to get a bit worried if she has a lack of
    "advancement" in one area or the other.  But as long as she's generally
    on track for her age, it isn't significant that she's ahead today on
    skill A and behind today on skill B.  That can all change in a month.
    
    I heartily resist the "yuppie" notion that pushing children
    academically from birth will make them geniuses as adults.  If
    anything, it stunts them and denies them the development of self-
    confidence that comes from fulfilling their inner potential, ON ITS OWN
    TIMETABLE NOT OURS.
    
    I believe that each child has a neshamah - that loosely means soul -
    and that we parents are the guardians and protectors of that growing
    neshamah.  We are not any smarter, nor even necessarily any wiser
    than our children.  While they do need structure, discipline, and a
    healthy amount of parental authority, that doesn't give us leave to
    impose on them our vision of what they should be.  Given enough love,
    encouragement, and space to grow, the neshamah takes its on form like a
    growing plant.  This is true throughout our lives.
    
    Laura
734.8DKAS::DKAS::WIKOFF_TTanya Wikoff, MR01-3 297-2087, Home is wherever your loved ones are.Wed May 04 1994 17:436
Pushing is one thing, but inhibiting a child who is giving indications
that he is ready is another (for convenience or whatever).  
I thought this started out with a child who was showing signs of being
interested in reading?

-Tanya