Conference moira::parenting

    
    Children can *feel* your tension - at least mine can feel my tension. I
    imagine it's an uncomfortable feeling for them; so they act out in ways
    that might be unusual.
    
    There's a corollary of Murphy's law that applies to getting children to
    move to an adult-oriented schedule. The greater the "nned", the less
    likely they are to cooperate.  In my experience, this springs from what
    i've described above; they feel your tension; their reaction is to dig
    their little feet in.
    
    WHat has worked for me:
    	deep breaths - seriously! I know it sounds hokey
    	rethinking priorities ("what is the WORST possible thing that can
    		happen if I'm late?")
    	Major league planning ahead - I pack all paraphenilia the NIGHT
    	before: I think through contingency plans for if the morning does NOT 
    	go smoothly; I lay out clothes; I pack healthy snacks in case meals
    	get missed.
    
    And when *I'm* having a bad day (mom's are allowed - occasionally :-} )  
    I give myself 10 minutes of peace - either by getting up early, or by
    agreement with my husband or a neighbor. Ten minutes of *my* time to
    get *my* agenda done. It'd be nice if it was more, but I hold onto  the
    belief that it will come - in a few years.
    
    
    so, to summarize (yes, I ramble) 
    	- KNOW the schedule will occasionally get thrown out
    	- PLAN ahead for all contigencies - including being late
    	- If possible, rethink priorities so you don't drive yourself insane
    	- Give yourself a little bit of time - simply to re-orient your inner
    		peace.
    
    JAmd

    I have a three and half year old daughter and a 20 month old son and
    my husband works nights, so sometimes the tension can really build
    at night.. What I do and it works for me is 1)if the weather is nice
    I take them outside and let them run wild for about an hour after 
    dinner time (winters are awful) 2) turn on the radio during dinner 
    pretty loud and dance around the kitchen so they think that I am in 
    a good mood, but what I am really doing is tuning out their screams
    3) if it really gets unbearable I lock myself in the bathroom with 
    the water running to just have time out.  
    
    In the morning my husband is home so I don't have to take them to 
    daycare, I can just get ready and leave.  You could always put her
    to bed in her clothes (who really sees them when their asleep) and
    pack everything the night before (maybe even put it in the car then),
    don't put her shoes on until you get where your going and maybe give
    her peanut butter toast to eat on the way for breakfast...shortcuts
    save your sanity, this I know from experience.
    
    Take care and don't be so hard on yourself, we are all only human.
    She probably won't even remember tonight that you were angry with
    her at all this morning.
    
    Vickie 

Hi,

I can understand.  I have a 2 1/2 yr. old who is always testing 
the waters to see how far he can go!

Here's a few thoughts that I try to remember:
	- take a deep breath and decide if what I'm trying to get him to
		do is worth the struggle
	- it's ok to go without shoes (I"ll carry him to the car)
	- it's ok to skip breakfast (he may not be hungry)
	
When I think about it, there's very few things that MUST get done before we 
get in the car to leave.  I haven't had to bring him to daycare yet
in his jammies, but we've come close!  Some mornings he skips breakfast,
and I"ll either bring something for him to eat later, or just let
our provider know he may be hungry.

I find that sometimes I have 'expectations' that things have to be a certain
way (so Charlie looks well cared for, for other 'mindset' reasons) -
I am learning to question my assumptions and let go when they're not
necessary for safety/health etc.  Does that make sense?

I also try to remember what might be going on in his head... "I want to keep
Mommy here with me today"  "I want Mommy's attention"  

And finally if I really find myself getting angry, *I* get a timeout (though
I can understand it is hard when you're trying to get to work).  I have 
often asked my spouse for a break - even 15-20 minutes is a lifesaver 
sometimes.

Take care,
Rachel

   We have a 2-yr old who went to church in her footed sleeper on Easter
   Sunday!  She simply would *not* get dressed, and we didn't have time
   to argue the matter.  We got a couple of interesting looks, but
   anybody with small kids will empathize, that's for sure...
   
   - Tom

Also question that assumption that she was testing your patience...
(You might be 100% right on, but questioning it can't hurt :-)

I had a very cranky 20-month old this past weekend.  Last night, I noticed
that one of her molars came in.  I'm betting now that teething pain was
causing my daughter's Jekyll (or is it Hyde?) personality to emerge.

Sympathies and good luck!

- Deb

    Note 60 might have some good ideas for handling toddlers in what
    might be called the "Terrible Twos" stage.
    
    Carol Stolicny, co-mod

    In my experience, 18 months is too early to "test Mommy's patience".
    They can't plan that kind of thing yet.  So what you have is more
    of an "I don't want to" mood--it's an internal state, not an attempt
    to control you (that happens later!).
    
    Further that internal state, in my opinion, is usually the result of
    some real external cause, like an ear infection, teething, stomache 
    ache or a wet diaper.  Think of how you get less "mellow" when you're
    tired or sick.  So it's worth looking for that cause--as well as
    trying to make sure _you_ are fed, rested and have had lots of time 
    to prepare (I know, "dream on", but even so, every little bit helps).
    
    Finally, it's ok to feel angry at times--kids are a LOT of work, and
    when they're hindering progress, it's irritating and I know I've found
    myself getting hot and curt and generally reacting emotionally as 
    though it was deliberate obstruction on their part.  
    
    The "time-out for Mommy" stuff others have mentioned is good
    advice--but if you're alone, maybe the best you can do is jump up
    and down and yell (no, this is serious--try it: jump up as high
    as you can and pull your feet up under you while in the air.  Extend,
    land, back up without stopping.  Four or five times will use up the
    "fight or flight" energy.  Unfortunately, it's embarassing to do in
    public and pretty noisy to do in the house, and it makes you sweaty).
    
    		-John Bishop

    I read the base noter as being concerned because s/he felt like they
    wanted to "smack" their daughter.  Not how to get the child motivated,
    but scared because they felt that way.  I know I have felt that way
    before.  I have a cousin that used to shut herself in the bathroom as a
    time out when things got too tough.  
    
    I think that just about everyone can have that feeling of "I think I'm
    going to loose control" at least once.  You need to decide what is
    worth arguing about.  If it is truly worth it, take a break after the
    first incident.  Walk away.  It is amazing that you do learn to tune
    alot out.  The kid can be having a tantrum because they want to eat
    worms and you just ignore it all.  Eventually the kid gives up.
    
    Your daughter had an off weekend.  It wasn't her typical schedule. 
    Just remember everyones entitled to a 'bad day' now and then.  Kids do
    feel tension and they prey on it I swear.  I know mine do.  Talk to
    yourself through it and even if inside you want to burst, don't let her
    know it.
    
    Good luck.  Before long she'll be 16 and you'll have a whole new set of
    problems....you will want to smack all her friends too.  :-) But you
    won't.

	I'm going to respond the other way.  

	I know when I am short with the kids, or feel like smacking them 
	for something, its usually when **I** am tired, or **I** am under 
	some kind of pressure.  

	Its definatly time for **ME** to have some time to myself.  Whether it
	be the kids go to a sitter, and **I** sleep, or **I** go shopping,
	something, anything for me to charge my batteries again.  

	Hey, everyone deserves a break.   I'm even HAPPY to go grocery
	shopping by myself!!

	/robin

    Oh, I remember how shocked I was the first few times I felt this rage
    at my toddler.  Don't worry - after years of it, you get used to it. 
    ;-)
    
    I remember one of those early incidents when I was lucky to have my
    husband at home.  I stormed out of the room, yelled at him, "I'm out of
    control!  You've got to take over!" and went to be by myself for a few
    minutes.
    
    That mental image of the perfect, saintly mother is positively harmful. 
    Don't feel guilty for a normal reaction.
    
    Another technique for releasing tension is the Tarzan yell - no words
    (they can be devastating) but just a bloodcurdling scream.  I did this
    recently, getting ready to leave in the a.m. of course when my daughter
    insisted on her misplaced fancy mittens when I couldn't even find my
    wristwatch. My daughter's mouth dropped open and she seemed about to
    cry.  Then, when I stopped screaming, she was just as suddenly okay. 
    Hey, THEY scream like that all the time.  Not so weird for adults to do
    the same.  Just hope my neighbor didn't hear me.  :-)
    
    Another recommendation.  YOU go to sleep in your work clothes. 
    Remember the wristwatch and earrings.  Just tell your boss its the new
    wrinkled linen look for summer.  Or wear the same sweats for sleep and
    work.  You can go for days without wasting time getting dressed.  You
    can even make it a family tradition!
    
    L

    This is just the note I needed to read this morning. 
    
    Our almost 3 yr (1 week shy) old didn't get enough sleep last night. 
    It took two of us to get him dressed. He wouldn't go potty (and therefore 
    had an accident), wouldn't eat breakfast and he stressed the whole family 
    out. We tried timeout for him and even resorted to a spanking. Neither which
    worked. He was so worked up. Finally by the time we left 6:35 or so, he
    had somewhat calmed down but there have been mornings when we have had
    to carry him out.
    
    Currently I work 3 -10 hr days so I can spend 2 days a week home with the
    boys. That takes a toll on the other end though as they tend to get to
    bed around 8:15 -8:30 on some nights and then the morning is awful.
    Tonight we are having a discussion as to whether I should go back to
    work for 4 days a week so we can get the boys to bed earlier.
    
    I love my boys dearly but sometimes being a parent is so stressful.
    
    .0 I know exactly what you are going through!
    

    Primal scream therapy in the car was an often used solution when I had
    a stressed out toddler and stressed-out mom.  We would both scream in
    unison, and sometimes both be laughing by the time we got to day-care.  
    
    I have taken a child into daycare in, 1.  Her pajamas, with a bag of
    clothes, 2.  Barefoot, and 3.  With breakfast in a bag, when she was
    not in the mood for moving.  Lorraine would just laugh, and say it
    wasn't the first time, nor would it be the last.  There are mornings
    that are just like that in a parent's life.  If time hadn't been a
    factor, she probably would have come around in about an hour when she
    was truly awake.  
    
    meg, who has been there.

    I can really relate to the basenoter on this.  I have an almost 4 1/2
    yr old son and believe me he does this quit often in the morning.  What
    I usually do is get his clothes ready the night before and he gets up
    when I do or sometimes before me and we brush out teeth together and
    get washed up.  Then Mommy get's dressed and Alex gets dressed down
    stairs in the family room where he helps me feed the fish and the cat.
    
    When he is having a bad morning and sets off my rage.  I just hold my
    breath and tell him that he needs to cooperate and help Mommy out or we
    are going to be late.  This usually works but on some instancises he
    wakes up my husband with his screaming and hubby has to come down and
    use his stern voice and tell Alex to listen to me and that works also
    along with making him cry, and then he tells me he is sorry and we have
    a nice ride to daycare, and he tells me he is going to be a good boy.
    
    I think you have to learn to deal with this as kids will do this to you
    most of their child hood.  My brother's kids are 12 and 10 and they
    still do it to him.  But you really do need to get out.  Tell your
    husband/wife that you need some time to yourself and go out or you can 
    even go out for a walk by yourself.  I do this with my girlfriend.  We 
    leave the kids at home with the husbands and we either
    go out shopping or take a craft class to have some time to ourselves
    and it works.
    
    Take care and I'm sure you will have better day's. 
    
    
    Liz

    My daughter went through this at 18 months.  It's called an early stage
    of terrible twos and the infamous "ear infection" attitude.
    
    Every single time my daughter was "a beast" it was because she had an
    ear infection.  So whenever she comes down with the toddler PMS, we
    send her to the doctor and 10 out of 10 times it's an ear infection. 
    She immediately turns into an angel within 24 hours of being on the 
    medication.
    
    You may want to have your daughter checked out if the behavior gets
    worse.
    
    She may have just had one of those days.  I know sometimes I wake up
    madder than hell at the world and everyone in it, just because I feel
    like it, not because someone ticked me off.
    
    I don't think there is too many parents out there who haven't been
    really angry at their kids behaviour once in a while.  Now that you
    are sitting at work looking at her picture and feeling guilty, maybe
    you have calmed down too.  When you pick her up from daycare maybe
    things will be a little easier.  
    
    One of the other noters suggested that keeping calm is the key.  It is. 
    My daughter's can sense when I'm mad and they feed on it.  If I'm calm,
    then they feel they can't win!  8*)
    
    Take it easy and take one thing at a time.  Who says little kids can't
    have PMS?
    
    

    Just read this, and immediately thought someone had been reading my
    mind! (what there is left of it these days!!)  I still have these
    mornings with AJ (he's 7), and for some unknown reason Sunday nights
    are the night from H*LL, for getting him to sleep even close to his
    regular bedtime.  I simply think he doesn't do enough on Sunday to
    fully exhaust him into bed on time, and two hours later he's still
    "partying", he's been doing this since toddlerhood!
    
    I think you too, might have been suffering with the "oh good grief it's
    Monday again" syndrome, you had the daily rush and panic too.  If you
    hadn't thought of it, yesterday wasn't the morning for a sugar coated
    cereal or syrup on pancakes for breakfast.  Some food colorings can get
    a kiddo rev'd up too.
    
    My provider doesn't provide for breakfast for him, and I have simply
    gotten him up, *helped* him get dressed, he slipped into another "I do
    it stage" briefly, a few months ago, drove me crazy! and simply take 
    him to the car, put some cereal in a covered bowl, and ask the provider
    if she would *mind* seeing that he has milk in the bowl, and maybe a
    glass of juice, voila, breakfast is served!
    
    I don't know where you are, but on Easter Sunday in the Worcester
    Telegram and Gazette, there was an article on Child abuse, with
    recommendations for Parents Anonymous.  One thing I immediately took to
    heart was a "3 by 5" timeout method.  It is 3 warnings, and then a 5
    minute time out.  Also, if mommy can't control her temper, the SHE gets
    a 10 minute time out, in her room.  In the article it said the children
    have started telling mommy to "take a time out, since you've been bad".
    
    I have a friend, a pediatric nurse, who told me she used to stand in
    the shower so long it would run COLD, just so she didn't have to hear
    the baby screaming.  I haven't done that, somehow I just can't.  I have
    though pushed the volume up so far in the car I can't hear myself
    think, but somehow it seemed to startle him into quiet.
    
    And then when you think you just CAN't take it anymore, they get good!
    In my case, he wants to play soccer so bad, that I swear that if I told
    him to stand on his head and spin around he would!  Last night my
    usually disobedient child met me at the door, with jacket on, went to
    the car at first request, came home went directly to take his shower
    unassisted, ate supper with no argument, and was quiet and cooperative.
    Why, you ask?  Simple, I told him that *if* he had a good day, didn't
    get messed up playing at the sitters, which included changing from
    brand new jeans to the old holey ones afterschool, and listened to me,
    that we would go out last night to buy his soccer equipment.  Even this
    morning he continued to be good, he know he has to continue behaving,
    and maintain good grades or he will be taken out of soccer.
    
    Bribery does work!
    Lyn

    
    I think that there was something "special" about Monday morning too - I
    could've strangled my two older sons.  As someone else noted, you do
    get used to it.  They know my "I Give Up!" look, and know not to push
    me any further.
    
    And more than a few times, I've gone into my room, on my bed, and
    screamed absolutely as loud and long as I could, and it REALLY helped.
    
    When the boys were younger, we ocassionally used to scream in the car. 
    I'd usually start it with just a YELL!!! and they'd follow suit, and
    within a few seconds, we'd all be screaming, and within a minute or so
    we'd all be laughing.
    
    I think the REALLY REALLY BAD feelings come because there's no way to
    release the anger/frustration.  Once you can "get it out", it feels
    much better.
    
    Good Luck!

    If you have a challenge with one, think of those of us with more
    than that.  I have three which only increases the potential for
    them to be disagreeing with each other and me at the same time.
    (BTW, I have always been convinced that anyone with more than
    three, i.e. those with 4,5,6 etc. have to either be brain dead
    or saints.)
    
    The thing that gives me comfort, now that I am getting old enough to
    begin to realize what my parents...mostly my mother...told/reminded
    me of, is that there is a finite number of years when this will 
    exist.  I know, I know, you and most of the rest of us are still living
    it one day at a time, but we have to remember that we brought them into
    this world for what ever reason, and since they are here, we have to
    come up with strategies for them and ourselves to make the best of it.
    
    I know it helps to share with others to keep reminding each other that
    we all have basically normal kids.  However, there are some
    pre-pressure-period things you can do to prepare for "those-times"
    when you are either to tired, you have run out of time in your
    schedule, or (s)he will absolutely not give in.  The farther ahead you
    can anticipate these times and the more time you take, in a quiet
    moment, after the "episode" to reflect on what you did right, what
    you could change and what you cannot change and have to just gut it out
    until their grow through that stage, the better your blood pressure
    will be.
    
    I have occasion to present to and meet with prospects and clients
    quite frequently.  In most cases, they are responsible for buying
    decisions that can mean millions of dollars to either Digital or a
    competitor.  Interestingly enough, many of them are just like children
    in the way they act, the way they want to be pampered and catered to,
    and the "tantrums" they throw.  I find it very easy to draw analogies
    between particularly tough visits with these people and my kids.  In
    both cases, the outcomes will happen over long periods of time.  In
    both cases, patience and remembering that the future depends on today,
    and in all cases remembering that I am responsible for representing
    more than just basic emotional repsonses for that point in time to 
    an unacceptable behaviour helps.
    
    My kids are a top priority in my life and their fighting, disagreeing
    to cooperate, and being stubborn about doing what I want them to do
    changes and is influenced slowly.  I don't think there is a quick fix.
    What I can fix and work on is me and how they see me act and how
    consistent I am in both setting the example that Dad will not change
    his mind and will get them up earlier if they consistently are late
    for the bus, or will not let them leave the table or sit at the table
    if certain jointly-agreed-upon-rules are not adhered to.  It doesn't
    work every time at any age, but I feel better when I can anticipate and
    reflect on the fact that when we sit and talk about it when everyone
    has calmed down after an incident, they agree on what should have 
    happened.  A lot of work, you bet.  Worth it, you bet.  Everyone happy
    going through each prep, rules setting and rule evaluation when they
    are not adhered to, no.  But I don't think if any of us are honest with
    each other, we would be happy with a child(ren) who was perfect.
    
    So, remember, the rest of us are out here doing our daily thing too and
    we are still sane enough to respond to you...and BTW have found the
    time to.
    
    It gets to the point where you will look back and laugh at yourself if
    you relax and re read some of our notes...trust me.(and I am a single
    parent, so humor has to be part of our routine)
    
    Hang in there
    
    Jim

    Well, I also know the feelings described. 
    If you feel an urgent need to smack - take a time out of any sort.
    But do not forget it is a learning phase for both of you - the child
    sees that there is an end to your temper and patience, and if you show
    it in some way, it may well be remembered. Society is not all that
    patient anyway, so if YOU are an example of general society, well..
    Try not to smack, see yourself as just any other fallible parent with
    general limitations. And what we do: we tell the kids - even the 18
    months old - how frustrated we feel. It does ( seem :-) to help.
    Keep trying to love yourself.
    Michel 

    Boy, kids are good at wearing you down, aren't they? I was finding
    myself getting more and more impatient, on an almost constant basis, 
    and found myself yelling and scolding for even the smallest offenses.
    
    Then one night we had a rare chance to watch TV (kids went down early),
    and caught a news-show that dealt with kids fighting life-thretening
    diseases at Boston Children's Hospital. It really helped us to put our
    situation in  perspective. Suddenly, the spilled milk and the tardiness
    in the morning didn't seem like such a major disruption in the scheme of
    things...
    
    We both found ourselves being more patient and tolerant, with a lot
    less yelling and scolding going on in the house. In turn, the kids
    seem to react in kind, with a lot more cooperation and listening (and,
    of course, a lot more hugs and kisses and snuggle-time). 
    
    In our case, just thinking of what those families have to gho through, 
    and of those kids who are fighting for their lives, and saying a quick 
    prayer for them, is a hell of a lot more effective than any ten-count 
    ever could be. 
    
    FWIW,
    
    Freddie
    

    Sometimes I'm amazed, too, at the level of anger I might feel at one
    of my children, or my husband.  But then I remember something which
    has been very helpful to me:
    
       The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.
    
    In other words, only those people who you love very much have the
    ability to drive you to such strong emotions, even negative emotions,
    because you are so emotionally wrapped up in them.
    
    When a stranger or casual aquaintance does something to make you mad,
    you are more able to shrug it off and forget about it.  You just don't
    care enough about them, so you don't care that much about the
    situation.
    
    So, if you are sitting there feeling guilty about how angry you have
    gotten at your child, tell yourself that this is an indication of
    just how much you love the child!  
    
    Jane
        

I look at it this way - anger is a normal, healthy
emotion, and how I express it teaches my children
how to express it.

So, I want them to use their words to express anger,
not throw things, etc.  So, I use my words:

ELISE!  I'M ANGRY!  I DON"T LIKE IT WHEN YOU
[hit your sister | kick me | don't listen to my
words | etc]


Sometimes, when I'm really losing it, I'll step into
the bathroom and scream, then come out and tell the
perp why I'm angry.

The fact is there is nothing wrong with feeling any
of the emotions we can feel.  The problem is when
you act out the emotion without choosing to do so.

Pat

    Well, yesterday my 3.5 year old daughter pinched her 2year old brother
    rather nasty. Being a bit impulsive, I slapped her hand...- pretty hard
    Deciding that punishing violence by violence was not the right
    behaviour ( O, the joys of hindsight :-), I told her that a timeout was
    required - for both of us. So I stood her in one corner of the room, and 
    myself in another. Equal punishments for equal behaviour. Yes she hates
    timeout, but at least she saw that I am not excempt either.        

    
    I've done that (given myslef a timeout)  
    
    
    * * * *
    Imagine my surprise (and confusion) when my 4.5 yr old daughter told
    me, in no uncertain terms, that "you are going to Timeout, Mommy! I do
    NOT like it when you put Peter in Timeout!"
    
    (Actually, it turned out nicely; we ended up having a conversation
    about what she thought was a reasonable response to Peter's infraction
    (continued attempts to walk on the table during dinner) and she rightly
    pointed out that timeouts are used for serious stuff like hitting and
    biting.  We mutually decided that if Peter insists on table walking
    then he will just get down from the table.  And, I was able to tell her
    that I was proud of her for sticking up for her brother.
    
    Jamd

    A big fan of the primal scream myself, although it does scare the
    children enough to make them back away, shrink from me and increase my
    guilties, another one that works is to make the most serious, angry
    posture, with stare and pursed lips, scrinched eyes, all the parts
    going, that I can, and then we invariably start laughing...If I can
    just keep myself from stopping the laughter, it really isn't that
    serious.  But I have a terrible temper, so I'm learning to deal with
    it, to not control it, to loosen it away...and teach the kids at the
    same time.  Although the scream does help me, it doesn't help my kids
    (duaghter especially)...
    
    I think I'm doing as much learning at this parenting thing as they...
    Adrienne
    

    
    
    The following is being posted for a member of the PARENTING notesfile
community who prefers to remain anonymous at this time.   If you wish
to contact the author by mail, please send your message to me and I will
forward it to the anonymous noter.    Your message will be forwarded with
your name attached  unless you request otherwise.

Carol Stolicny, PARENTING co-mod
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I am having problems controlling my anger.  I have so much stress in my life
and my husband (who is responsible for 99% of the anger) is worried that our
son is realizing that "Mommy is angry all time".

My husband is telling me that yelling about anything, whether it because
of him, our child or any of reason, is wrong to be done in front of the
son.  (Of course, he doesn't not realize that any intelligent adult realizes
this already and that I would like nothing more than to just smile all day
long but I can't.)

Now, little things that my son is doing are setting me off too so, I find
myself yelling his name and telling him NO, PLEASE DON'T.  He is just over
a year old and I believe that he should start realizing that temper tantrums
are not allowed and not the right thing to do.  My husband doesn't see it this
way.  He says that I can reason without yelling and that I have no
patience and has even told me that he fears for my son's safety because
of my outbursts.  I threw a toy across the room that I sat on and he
thought it was awful for our son to see Mommy throw one of his toys.
I just threw it on the ground, not at anything.  Was I wrong?
    
I am in therapy but my therapist is telling me that "I have a right to be
angry and I should vent this anger" but I don't agree with him.  My husband
used to go with me but won't "go to the shrink to whine anymore".  I am trying
though and in his own way, so is he because we both want to be the family that
were a long time ago; a happy one.

I read the replies in here and it seems that people go into another room
for a break.  I worry that if I do this, my husband will see this as me
admitting that I cannot care for our child.  Obviously, yelling or just
screaming for a minute is not going to help, considering that any type of
yelling in front of the baby is a problem.

Any suggestions?

    
    One thing that I'm struck by in your note is that you believe 
    "he should start realizing that temper tantrums are not allowed
    and not the right thing to do".  I think one of the most effective
    ways of handling temper tantrums is to not lose your cool yourself.
    Children learn best by example IMHO.  So, in this respect, I'd have
    to agree with your husband to try to control your yelling and
    throwing of toys in front of your child.   It can be difficult
    sometimes - and I do agree with your therapist that you have a
    right to be angry and to vent the anger - but it needs to be
    done in a positive manner as possible and preferably away from
    the child.   However, your child does need to see when he's 
    crossed your limit occasionally.
    
    I know, easier said then done.  I wish you luck.
    
    Carol  

    I know the feelings on this one also; have had a rotten temper for a
    long time. I basically taught my son how to have a temper tantrum with
    my fury, although it is seldom directed at him (usually at the
    husband...where we let our guard down and all that).  I must learn to
    control my temper and tongue lashing.  I need to vent my anger,
    bottling it will cause different issues, but venting and exploding are
    different.  The first implies a little control; I let the family know
    it is coming, I put myseld in time out, I get myself out of the way, I
    scream one short bark at something inanimate...I'm working on it.  The
    thing I can see from you note is that you have all the answers, so with
    all due respect (I too know everything there is to know ;-} ), try to
    relas a little and let the other's suggestions in.  Afterwards I do try
    to explain to the worst suffering child (still working on the husband
    side) that people have a temper, mom's temper is bad, and we'll work it
    together.  I make no bones (at that point) that I'm not perfect, that
    I'm learning just like them, and we are still a family.  
    
    We always finish with hugs...
    Adrienne
    

First let me say that it has been my experience that learning to first
recognize and then deal with anger is a long and painful process.  But it is
well worth the process.  I don't claim to have it down pat, but I know that I
am a lot more at peace with myself than I used to be; to the point that
people who know me have commented on the change.

Second, I would like to recommend a few books:
	Anger, The Misunderstood Emotion.
		Carol Tavris
	Anger, the Parental Dilemma
		????
	The Dance of Anger
		Janet W_____
There are more, but those are the ones that come immediately to mind.

Beyond that I can only say that I recently started reading my own journal
entries from '91 on.  1991 being about the time I became aware that my
emotions were either buried, out of control, or some combination of both.  I
was absolutely amazed at the amount of anger in my writing.  And I distinctly
remember the pain of learning to deal with it.  At that time my  three
children were 16 (girl), 4 (girl) and 2.5(boy).  

One thing I did which helped me, and I think my children (your mileage may
vary), was to apologize for my outburst.  I would then explain as well as I
could to them what had triggered it.  I would try to do this in a non blaming
manner.  And I would make it as clear as possible that I was not apologizing
for the anger, I was apologizing for the way I expressed the anger.  Now,
the little ones are 7 & 6, and I am getting the (I think) standard "I hate
you" and "You're mean" lines.  The hate line stings, but I can usually manage
a retort of "I'm sorry you feel that way, but you still have to <fill in the
blank)."  And my now 20 year old tells me that my standard reply to being
called mean is getting old. (It's part of a mothers job description.)  

Temper tantrums.  I hate temper tantrums.  And here I agree with your husband
that they can be learned behavior.  That's the bad news.  The good news is
that as I have learned to channel my anger, I have been able to guide them to
do the same.  Again, they're not perfect, but they're learning.

You are in therapy.  I am glad for that.  It sounds like you need a safe
place to process.  I have gone to groups, and one-on-ones, and even dragged
my husband into a few with me.  To steal a phrase a friend of mine coined,
which I for some reason find humorous, we as a couple in therapy have been
fired by three different counselors.

Well, that's enough from me for now.  Take care.  Take care of yourself first
and your family second.  I know that sounds seriously demented, downright
selfish, but it's true.  I have a friend who is a life long diabetic.  She
often puts herself first.  For her this is unquestionably required.  But it
is an extreme example of taking care of yourself first, because if you don't,
you won't be able take care of anyone else.  My spirit is every bit as
fragile and important as her health.  If I don't take care of my spirit, I
won't have the spirit to take care of my family.

+++
Debby

    Hi -
    
    Keep in mind the child is 1 not 14 1. He/she is acting appropraite for
    their age? Make sense... She/he is little it's their job to try new
    things to learn about boundaries to have some fun. Lighten up - don't
    be so hard on yourself or the people you love - The anger comes when we
    think we haven't met an expectation or goal - what is the goal. 
    
    The goal is to raise a happy, balanced, loved child - a child who will
    get a fair chance at life by having good coping tools - keep going to
    counseling - it works - how about an anger workshop - most community
    centers offer them.
    
    Tell your kid the truth - "I love you and I want to be a loving mommy
    and from time to time I will get anger but it's not YOU it's the
    behavior I'm angry at - I know the child is only one but you'd be
    amazed at what they understand - Co Dependent meetings or any 12 step
    program would also be wonderful for you - life is short the kids only
    stay young a short time - your beautiful baby deserves the best you can
    give - Good Luck
    
    Warm regard,

	I too am the "angry parent".  My husband is laid back and quite
	relaxed most of the time but I have quite a short fuse.  And when	
	things are not going well, my fuse is even shorter.  When I came
	back from maternity leave (Lauren was 11 weeks), I returned to a
	job that I hated and had hated for over 2 years.  Over the months
	that followed, I found myself very angry and unhappy and took it 
	out mostly on my husband.  It was very upsetting for me to be
	so unhappy, especially when life should be just perfect (new 
	baby).  Finally, I did something about it.  I found myself a
	new job.  In fact today is my last day.  And since I accepted
	the job offer 4 weeks ago, I've been much happier.  

	So, I guess what I am suggesting is to do something to correct
	the situation in your life that is making you unhappy.  Sounds like
	its your marriage that is making you unhappy and you are working 
	on that but if your husband is not then you might have to do
	something else to eliminate the problem.

	In the meantime, I too an experiencing temper tantrums in Lauren.
	Hers consist of screaming when she doesn't get what she wants.
	This tends to make me mad and it isn't always easy to contain
	my temper.  I don't want to give in when she is shrieking to get
	something she wants but I'm not sure what to do.  I've tried a
	few things but she ends up crying.  Sometimes I just quit playing
	the game to show her I won't play with someone who is shrieking
	at me.  Other times I raise my voice (not yelling, but loud enough
	to be heard) and tell her to cut it out.  Then she cries and I
	end up consoling her.  

	It is so hard to communicate with these little ones.  You have to 
	show them by your actions what behavior you consider unacceptable.  
	If you try to use words with a one year old, they will not understand.
	So, if you blow your top in response to your sons tantrum, aren't
	you just showing him that that sort of behavior is acceptable?

	I think the time outs are a good idea for parents.  I've taken
	them myself!  A short walk or drive is a good cooling down period.

	Karen

    
    
    
    re. anon,
    
    	I have a short fuse and I used to yell a lot. I was in your
    shoes, some 8 years ago. Things are much, much better now since the
    follwoing things had happened over time:
    
    	- I realized that yelling and getting upset was causing literal
    	  misery in my house. I spent sometime understanding the sources
    	  of my stress and hot buttons and found solutions for them, thus
    	  removing some stress from my life. I started listening to my
    	  needs. I have a housecleaner, I get take-outs when I am tired, 
    	  I sent the laundry out, etc. 
    	  
    	Get help to lower your stress level.
    
    	- I set aside time for MY social needs. I find that being able
    	  to yak with girlfriends help to release my stress a lot. 
          
    	Do something that makes you happy on a weekly basis.
    
    	- I started to work on my "baggage" from my childhood and it
    	  help me to break the cycle of dysfunctional parenting.
    
    	Work on your emotional issues.
    	Understand the role of a good parent. 
    
    	- I don't hold my husband for my anger anymore, since I am the
    	  one in charge of my emotions. He and my kid were convenient 
    	  targets and I realized that over time.
    
    	Take responsiblity for your emotions and happiness.
    	Let them take responsibilty for theirs.
    
    	- As part of the baggage removal, I become much more accepting
    	  of my shortcomings and others' flaws.
    
    	Things don't have to be perfect.
    	Don't ne so hard on yourself.
        You can still be happy with choas, accidents and surprises 
        around you.
    
    	I think the therapy is the beginning of good things to come.
    It takes a lot of time and conscious effort to undo whatever damage
    done to you, but it is worth it to you and your loved one.
    I found the Bradshaw's books very helpful. Once, you understand what
    had happened to you, you'll learn to let go of the past and live
    the moment to the fullest.
    
    	I did try walking away to cool off before I flamed. I understand
    your concern about your husband. But you have to do it for YOURSELF.
    Take care of your needs first. If he can't understand, that is his
    problem. He is an adult and he has to help himself, too. It is easy
    for him to point fingers at you, but don't worry about him for now.
    
    Hugs.
    Don't give up.
    
    Eva
    	 

Hi!  I'm so glad you wrote!

I'll just add one thing:  Your baby is really still too young to do most of
what you (or I) would want her to do.  Plus, grownups really can't "win"
a fight with a child that age.  The best way out of the situation is still
distraction.  For instance, when my son was determined to take off his shoes,
it wouldn't do any good for me to tell him not to.  Instead, I would give him a
bottle.  He'd forget about his shoes immediately and hold the bottle with
both hands.  :-)  

Other things like that can help keep a bad situation from getting worse.  
Plus it has the added bonus of being "win-win".  She gets something she wants
(toy, bottle, attention, TV show, food, red shirt, whatever) and you get what
you want (her to stop doing something or to be quiet or whatever). 

Don't feel so pressured to be a "super-mom", either.  Tell your husband that
you need time away sometimes.  You can then choose to take it when you are
angry or for a generic few minutes each night ("when I take a bubble bath from
8:00 to 8:30, she's yours") or perhaps going out by yourself or with friends
every Monday night might be the time away you need. 

Keep talking, and good for you for going to therapy!!!!

     Carol  :-)

    I want to comment on one thing you (anon) said. You said you're afraid
    your husband would think you couldn't care for your child if you went
    into another room and took a break. When I get really angry I go into 
    another room, cool off and regain my composure, and I think this is 
    extremely important. I really think this is an intelligent thing to do. 
    Your child will not miss you too much for 5 min. and I think this is a 
    very responsible way to act and a good example to set for your child. 
    
    It's MUCH better to leave the room/ take a time out/ than to yell at
    the child or even worse to strike the child. If you are worried about
    what your husband will think talk to him about it in advance. 
    
    Hopefully he will see how practical you are sounding and how hard you
    are trying. He needs to have patience with you. 
    
    Good luck!

    We use timeouts for our kids and for us.  Niether Frank nor I have the
    longest fuses in the world, nor do our kids for some reason ;-)
    
    Having dealt with one baby who had collic for the first 6 weeks of her
    life, I can attest to the fact that sometimes the most loving thing you
    can do with a child is to make sure he or she is safe, and then get the
    dickens out of that room for 5-10 minutes.  When I come home I grab
    Atlehi, and take her for some mama time just to give Frank a break to
    do something for himself.  Even sweet babies can wear on a soul.
    
    As for dealing with small people's temper tantrums at your baby's age,
    I usually just laugh at them.  Watching a child caregfully lower her
    head to the floor (she banged it too hard a few times and learned) and
    then lay there kicking and screaming can be an annoyance or a comedic
    act depending on how you look at it.  They do get older and learn that
    this is socially unacceptable through laughter as easily as through
    being yelled at.  Clarifier here.  We don't ridicule them, just laugh.  
    
    meg

Nothing wrong with being angry, perfectly normal
human emotion.  THe problem is, what to do with
it?

First - your children will learn more from what
you do than from what you say.  Throwing a toy
shows them a way to deal with anger, whether it
is to the ground or at someone.  If you think
that is an unacceptible behavior, then you need
to stop doing.  (Right after you fix the National
Deficit, Health care reform, and the homeless
problem, if you don't mind.)

Second - your therapist is right, you have a right
to vent any feeling you have, including anger.  It
is best targeted at the person who caused it (like
a husband): *THE EXCEPTION IS A LITTLE KID* who
doesn't understand what they did.

As a person who had to learn to be angry as an
adult, here's some suggestions:

1)  Don't be afraid of anger; the planet will not 
split in half if you get angry.

2)  When you feel angry, practice saying right
out loud, "I feel angry".  Say it as many times
as you need to, yell it at the ceiling if you
need to.  This is harmless to adults and kids who
can understand language. Probably should go in
the next room if the baby is there, since
babies only understand tone of voice.

3)  When you can tell the ceiling that you are
angry before you act on that anger, then add the
reason why:  "I feel angry because Madonna left
toys on the floor".  At the ceiling, you notice,
not at the person who left the toys on the floor.
You are practising identifying what caused the
anger.

4)  When you can tell the ceiling all about it,
out loud, mind you, then you are ready to
practise on a sympathetic adult: husband, close
friend, mother.  Not on kids, they don't get it.


When you can do all that, then you have it won.
You have relearned an entire emotion, and won
back some more humanness that somehow got taken
away.....


Good luck.  Keep going to therapy; it will help.

Pat