Conference moira::parenting

    One experience:  Two families are friends of mine.  They both had 9
    year olds who wanted to "date".  The mothers would take the kids on
    chaperoned movie dates, let them get together on the weekends, etc. 
    The girl's mother taught her that there was certain behavior that was
    acceptable on dates, and some that was not.  The boy's mother also used
    this time to teach the boy about date behavior.  The "steady"
    relationship was always well supervised (they did not attend the same
    school, but did attend the same church and lived in different
    towns/states, i.e., the kidso nly got together when the parents made it
    so).  After the relationship broke off (an intruding female from
    another family - what else), the girl's mother confided in me that
    although it was a great learning experiece for the daughter (what to
    expect from a date) she realizes now that it was much too soon.  
    
    You probably don't have much to say about what they call their
    relationship, but as far as giving them dating opportunities, you will
    have to set some ground rules to be adhered to.  
    
    My son is 8 1/2 and he has typical interest in girls (none).  My 6-yr
    old however has noticed girls and I think he will be my challenge.
    
    I say now that I will not allow my kids to date until they are in their
    mid-teens.  Maybe I'm old fashioned, but these kids are growing up too
    soon and I want to hold back as much as I possibly can without making
    them "geeks".
    
    -sandy
     

    Well my 9-year-old also-3rd-grade son still "plays" with his friends
    (boys, mostly, but some girls, too).  Yes, they "play" together, an we
    occasionally allow him (and his sister) to invite friends along on
    family outings such as movies, apple-picking, etc.  No distinction is
    ever made, though, about gender.  These are "friends" and what they are
    doing is "playing".

    Sheesh, I had no idea any of this was going to change soon.  I'm not
    sure I'm ready.

    Now, of course, my 6-year-old daughter is another story...

    L.

                      <<< Note 689.0 by NETDOC::POMEROY >>>
                          -< Dating at 9 Years old? >-

<I'd like to find out what other's opinions are on the subject
<of "dating" or so-called dating.

We have a nine year old who is interested in girls too.  His interest in a
particular girl is usually short-lived (a week or two).  Peer pressure plays
into this!

<What's a mother to do?
    
Wait a couple of days.

Rochelle

My experience is that this too will pass but only for
a short time. 

I would not allow my kids to go as just a pair at that
age. I would insist that if A&B wanted to go to a movie
or the like then they would have to go in a group of 5
or 6 friends. 

As for inviting the child over to "play" I would likely
let this happen and observe the behavior closely. I
would start to get concerned if they don't appear to 
be just friends.


As a very active parent in my community I here lots of
stories. It does appear that kids are being "paired off"
at a much earlier age. When I talk to my peers (read
school committee members) in other communities I hear
similar stories. Anecdotal evidence seems to suggest
that school configurations can have an impact on this. 
In the traditional K-6 elementary school it seems to
be more prevelant than in school systems that have a
4-7 or 5-8 middle school. 

	My husband said Emily can begin dating when she's 16.

	I'll try to get back to you in 14 years to let you know
	how successful we've been.

	;-)

My daughter is now 13 and in eighth grade.  When she was in elementary
school she said that there were some kids who went out on "dates".  I
dismissed it as something like maybe two opposite sex kids who were friends,
but it turns out that it really did resemble a date, as I know the term. 
One boy, one girl, one movie.  I don't know all the kids who did this, but I
do specifically remember one girl, and she seemed to me to be troubled and
precocious.  In her case, IMO, it should have been strongly discouraged,
perhaps forbidden, but then again anything her parents did or didn't do 
ceased to suprise me long before that.

We have friends who have a son who developed physically quite early, into
somewhat of a "hunk".  His mother once told us that he phone calls from
girls in fifth grade, and a LOT of phone calls in sixth grade, to the point
it was a distraction.  Now as an eighth grader, he isn't going to the Junior
High social events; they are passe, and he'd rather date High School
Freshmen.

In both of these cases, IMO, the early dating activity was harmful.  If I do
this now, what do I do next year?  Particularly if I am dating older
boys/girls?  To me there is an extreme danger of premature sexual activity.

This is NOT to say that all 9 year old "dates" end up as teenage
pregnancies.  Probably a lot of them end up as being a short phase that
fades out, not to resurface until many years later.  But I do think that
they're not just something to be dismissed as innocuous, benign, or "cute".  
I think if my daughter had asked me, at 9, if she could "date", I would have 
said no.  If it were just some sort of phase that would change in a couple of
days, then it probably will cease to be an issue soon.  If SHE really wanted
to date at nine, I think I would have regarded it as a symptom of some much
deeper problems.  Why does she want to grow up so soon?  

And don't overlook the possibility that your child will be RELIEVED if you
say no.  One suggestion that I've heard, and I think it's a good one, is not
to assume that your child really wants to do everything that they ask you
to.  They may just not want to say "no" directly to their friends.  And it's
a good thing to tell your child, that if they ever want to use you as an
excuse not to do something that they don't feel right about, to do so.  In
other words, YOU be the geek, so your child doesn't have to be.

Clay

    I appreciate what Clay said about using the parent as a scapegoat.  I
    tell this to my kids too.  I also appreciate his comment about "what do
    we do next".  Afterall, once it's all been done, they will likely start
    looking for more (and this may lead to devastating results).
    
    -sandy

    Clay's response brought back a memory for me.  My Dad was very good
    about saying No, as he had a lot of practice.  One time I was being
    pressured by a boy to go somewhere with him, and frankly, the guy kind
    of gave me the creeps -- nothing I could pin down, I just didn't like
    him.  So Boy calls one night after dinner asking if I could go to the
    movies (or something) with him.  I said, "I'll have to ask my father."
    
    I put the phone down, went into the adjoining living room, and said, "Dad,
    say no."  Dad proceeded to put on an Oscar-winning performance about no
    daughter of HIS was going to date till she was 18, and your grades were
    terrible last quarter and how dare you ask if you can go out, etc.,
    etc.
    
    By the time I picked up the phone again, the Boy had hung up, never to
    call again.
    
    I owe Dad one.
    
    

This is bringing up lots of memories for me, too.  :-)

My older child is only 5, but I well remember when I was in 5th grade, 10 years
old.  Lots of the kids had crushes on the other kids.  There was one boy who
had a major crush on me, but I thought he was too geeky.  He would send me
presents via other kids, things like costume jewelry.  Several of us kids
would go to the far area of the playground and play spin the bottle.

I started dating when I was 12.  The boy's father would pick us up and drop us
off at some Christian movie or to a high school play (at a h.s. where his
brother and my mom were teachers) and then pick us up afterwards.  We also went
to church together sometimes.  We did this off and on for THREE YEARS before
the guy even put his arm around me.  :-)  I admit, though, after a year and a
half of not even holding hands, I figured the guy thought we were just friends
and I started pursuing other guys. 

I was 15 when I started dating the next guy.  Even then it was mostly group
dates, several of us going to a movie together, then him walking me home.  I
was a virgin all through high school, and quite strict with my boyfriends about
what they could and could *not* (especially the *not*) do.  I bring this up
because so many people are worried about the kids going too fast, too soon.
Lots of my peers were shocked when they learned how young I was when I started
dating, but I was far more virginal than the ones who were 15 or 16 when they
started dating.

Now, some of you who know me may think that I stayed so "innocent" because I'm
a lesbian. Keep in mind that I didn't know that then.  It's possible it
affected some of my decisions, but it was not conscious.  I played by the same
rules then that I played by as an adult - go slow, work on the friendship
first, and *then* consider a more physical relationship. 

What do I suggest for a 9 year old?  Well, I wouldn't discourage the 
relationship; I think that could be trouble for your own relationship with
your child.  Instead, I suppose I would do what many others have suggested:
suggest to them things they can do in groups, and help them to do fun things
(drive them to miniature golf, etc).  They'll find ways to be a little private
- holding hands and other age appropriate behaviors.  You can guide them in
activities that meet both their desire for romance and your desire that they
take it slow. 

     Carol

    
    
      This is a very interesting topic.  My son will be 10 soon.  He says
    he likes this girl at school and over the years there have been 
    what he called girlfriends also very short lived.  But I do not think
    if the subject of a "date" came up that it would be allowed at his age.
    But also one ofhis closest friends is a girl.  They have played
    together since she moved into our neighborhood.  And they go to the 
    movies together but it is not a date.  I really want him to have
    friends of both sexes as I did growing up but I am in no hurry to 
    start the "dating" scene.  I really think that he is too young.
    
    I usually am read only in this note but this topic is fast becoming
    a reality to me.
    
    Patty

    Thanks for all the advice.  I have to admit I do think it's "cute"
    but at the same time am worried about him growing up too fast.
    
    He also wants his friend, Steven to come over sometime.  He asked
    if Amanda AND Steven could come over on Saturday.  What's interesting
    is Steven is "the other guy".  They seem to have this little circle
    of friends.  
    
    I really don't think it's anything too serious, yet.  I do want to
    say no to dating, but how do you answer the WHY question?  I know
    I never liked it when my parents said I was too young to do something. 
    
    Thanks again

    Is he perhaps playing at dating? I always tended to refer to friends
    who were girls as girlfriends when I was 10-ish. It wasn't a
    relationship that was any more or less than my friends who were boys,
    just a bit different. Still, its a little while since I was 10 & they
    say people are growing up faster 'these days' - what do I know?
    
    Andy

    No, I don't think it's "playing".  He said the other night
    that Amanda wants to kiss him.
    
    I do feel like he's asking me for something in a round-about
    way, almost like he's looking for approval or disapproval.
    
    SHould I just tell him that it's inappropriate behavior for
    a 9 year old?  And the WHY?
    

    Do you feel he would understand if you said 'inappropriate behavior'?
    Is there anyway to explain, in his terms, why you feel unhappy about
    it? As far as kissing goes, you could say its something only adults do,
    or he should only kiss family or kissing spreads germs, but is kissing (at 
    this level of involvement at least) so bad? 
    
    Perhaps, as already mentioned, the 'family outing plus friend' might be
    the best idea, where they're mainly, but not quite always, supervised.
    
    Just some thoughts
    
    Andy

    
    It occurs to me that if he's 
    
    "asking for something in a round-about way, almost like he's looking for 
    approval or *disapproval* (my emphasis) 
    
    that it's quite likely he wants YOU to set the limits, or be the geek
    that says no.
    
    I'd tell him it's inappropriate, and then tell him why, as age
    appropriately as I could.. perhaps someone else can help with the words
    - I'm only good for the 0-4 yr old crowd - and only some of
    the time, even then!
    
    Jamd

Well, I have a 9-year-old boy and a 10-year-old boy, and assuming they're
"normal", I'd guess that your son is curious, but may be being pushed
a little by the girl.  My boys notice girls, sometimes "like*" girls, but
*don't* want to hug or kiss them .  That's "gross".  My 9-year-old likes to
chase a bunch of girls around the playground at recess (only the ones who
want to), and I asked him, "What do you do when you catch them?" (fearing
the worst, of course ;-) ).  "I let them go and chase them again."

Do you know anything about the girl?  Have you seen her in action?  I ask
because my son told me about a girl at school who "likes" a male teacher
and "wants to get naked and have sex with him" (this is what the third grade
*girl* says)..  Now, my boys won't even let me see them naked, so thinking
about this little girl saying those things makes me have a lot of questions...
I'm not saying the little girl who likes your son is like this other girl,
but maybe she's a little precocious, and ready for more than your son is...

What would I do?   Personally, I'd try to get out of having her over, and
let the thing die on its own...  Otherwise, if he *really* wants her to
visit, I'd be sure there were several other children there, and I'd be
watching like a hawk.

Yes, I'm overprotective.  I admit it freely.  :-) 

    The boys do chase the girls at recess.  They're just playing.
    
    My gut feeling is that HE wants to do the kissing and is just saying
    that it's her.  In that way, he's looking for my approval.
    
    I'll just tell him that it's not appropriate.  I can't really
    tell him that kissing passes germs etc, after all, mom & dad kiss!  
    
    If I let this girl come over, I certainly would watch them and
    there would be other kids around... my 7 year old daughter and
    my 6 mo. old baby.
    
    Thanks for all the replies
    

    
    I too think that 9 is way too young.  At 12, (in sixth grade) I went
    out on group dates.  A dozen of us would go to movies.  We would all
    meet there, go to the movie, and then go home.  We held hands at the
    movies, but that was it.  I remember being uncomfortable because my
    hand was sweating, but not knowing how to stop the hand-holding without
    hurting my boyfriend's feelings.
    
    My parents rule was that you had to be 16 to go out on a regular date. 
    They did change their mind and let me go out when I was 15.
    
    I think I would tell your son that everything in life works better at a
    certain age.  You learn to eat at 4 months, walk around a year, read at
    6, and so on.  This is the same thing.  Children are ready to do stuff
    at a certain time and he needs to show you that he is ready by showing
    you the developmental signs.
    
    If he asks you what the signs are for dating, I'd tell him they are
    things like respecting himself and the girl, understanding sexual terms 
    (kissing, french kissing, necking, petting, and so on), and other
    more mature behavior.  
    
    Obviously, I'd also tell him that attending parties with mixed genders
    and knowing how to act properly is also important to learn the
    socialization that is needed to date.
    
    Good luck!  I hope this problem isn't mine in just 5 years!
    
    judy

    I've avoided this topic for a long time, but, I think that there
    is only one problem here and that is the confusion between a "date"
    and a friendship, on both the part of the children involved and
    the responses here.
    
    I would have absolutely NO problem in letting boys and girls play
    together at whatever age ... sometimes a bit of chaperoning may be
    required at *some* ages.  If you would allow two children of the
    same sex go to the movies, I see no problem in allowing mixed
    sexes to go.
    
    That said, I do have a problem with the idea that this interaction
    is being described as a "date".  This is exactly the wrong message
    for these kids, because describing it as a date, it is putting far
    more cross-sex focus on it than makes sense.  Sometimes the idea that
    the kids are "dating" comes from the kids themselves and their peers.
    
    So, to me the idea of these kids kissing IS inappropriate behaviour,
    and also, the idea of them describing their friendship as dating is
    ALSO inappropriate behaviour.
    
    In disallowing mixed sex play, it is STRENGTHENING the very idea that
    boys and girls are different that most people I think are trying to
    supress.  Also, it is saying that to your children that you don't
    trust them or their friends.  Wrong messages in my book.
    
    Stuart
    
    

    
    Geez, Stuart beat me to it .... maybe the first question is to ask your
    son what HE thinks it means to go on a date, and what is the difference
    between a date and just "playing" together.  Maybe it's just a term
    that his peers have kind of "pushed" on him.
    
    I have a son who's almost 9, and I agree that 9 is *MUCH* too young!! 
    Chris has always been very observant about relationships, very
    conservative in creating them, and very loyal once the bond has been
    created.  He has a remarkable sense of how to and not to, treat people.
    What might or might not be expected of someone, and more in the sense
    of an adult relationship.  He can be very devoted and self-sacrificing.
    A lamb for the slaughter.  
    Since pre-kindergarten he's had his eyes and heart on this one pretty
    little girl.  She's very quiet and shy and sweet.  He REALLY REALLY
    REALLY likes her, and somewhere along the time, I think he decided that
    their relationship might be something lasting.  They were in school
    together for 3 years, but last fall, they went into different classes. 
    He misses her TERRIBLY.  You might think it's not possible for a kid to
    fall in love, but this little boy feels it just as bad as you or I or
    anyone, when he thinks about Holly.  We've talked about it a lot, and
    the things he comes up with, and the depth of his understanding of the
    whole thing is just amazing to me.  "I KNOW I should just try to forget
    about her, but it's just so HARD!  I always think about her, and some
    times I see her in the hall, and she has such a beautiful smile!...etc"
    Breaks my heart!  He recently got glasses, and he passed Holly in the
    hall, and she said she liked his glasses.  That night he came home and
    he was *SO* elated!  He said he thinks that Holly likes him now - she
    likes his glasses, and he thinks that they'll make her notice him
    again.  
    
    So, for the reason that if they start to get attached, it could really
    hurt, I'd be extra careful.
    
    Good Luck!
    

    Well, 9 is second grade.  I remember a certain amount of 
    boy-girl interest back then (her name was Christina, and
    she had long blonde hair and beatiful handwriting--you
    don't forget stuff like that).  But I also remember other
    things:
    
    o	While I knew some stuff about sex, it was vague and
    	theoretical: for example, I knew there was something
    	about taking clothes off, but not what happened then.
    	And it it didn't have any thing to do with me personally,
    	any more than Geology did.  I think my interest in 
    	Christina wasn't so much a prematurely teen-ager-like 
    	thing as some step in emotional maturation appropriate
    	to 9-year-olds.  After all, I wasn't the only one this
    	happened to.
    
    o	Third grade was different, and nobody did boy-girl stuff
    	anymore--it was pass�*.  The "real" dating action started
    	for some in 6th grade, and later for the rest.
    
    Does Spock say anything about a tendancy to have out-of-family
    crushes at 9?  It sounds familiar, but I may be mis-remembering.
    
    		-John Bishop
    
    * "passe'" for the display-restricted.
    

    
    
     Just reread all the replies to this not and in .10 I meant to say
    that it would NOT be allowed at this age.  Slip  of the keys I guess.
    
     But as I said I see nothing wrong with friends of the opposite sex
    doing things together.  As a matter of fact I told him that this year
    instead of a birthday party he could choose 1 or 2 of his friends and
    I would treat them to a day of his choice (movies,lunch,arcade or 
    whatever).  I think that one of them will be a girl because she is
    his closest friend.  But if he asked if he could bring a "date" the 
    answer would still be NO!
    
    Patty

RE: .21

	9 year olds are most likely found in 4th grade
not 2nd. 

    Yup, I misadded ("You start at 6, so you're 7 in first and then
    add two..." or some such).  So my memories of second grade are
    not germane.  I don't remember any dating or romance in 4th.
    
    		-John Bishop

>    whatever).  I think that one of them will be a girl because she is
>    his closest friend.  But if he asked if he could bring a "date" the 
>    answer would still be NO!

I'd make sure that you explain that there are differences between friends
who are girls and "dates" ...  It doesn't have to be very complicated.

Stuart

>>    whatever).  I think that one of them will be a girl because she is
>>    his closest friend.  But if he asked if he could bring a "date" the 
>>    answer would still be NO!

>I'd make sure that you explain that there are differences between friends
>who are girls and "dates" ...  It doesn't have to be very complicated.

Yes, very important point.  Make sure it doesn't come across as you can't 
invite any girls, or that girls can't be friends.

Clay

I was reminded of this notes yesterday, when David, 4.5, who has just started 
kindergarten, said "I have a girlfriend, and her name is Monique". 
He has since decided that she is a friend-who-is-a-girl, rather than a 
girlfriend.

Chele

    The Nashua (NH) Telegraph had an article on this topic earlier this
    week.  It was from a national feed, and had no local angle.  
    
    Basically, it stressed that this pre-adolescent dating is not a good
    idea.  That early dating frequently leads to early sex.  (Makes sense
    to me.)  It said that dating in groups for 12 to 14 year olds was
    appropriate and that having mixed-gender parties for the younger kids
    was a way to teach them how to be together was also appropriate. 
    
    I think this is a good idea, since I wouldn't want my daughter in a
    situtation that she wasn't prepared for.  I want her to know how to
    respond to some of the more suggestive games.  Peer pressure is bad
    enough.  Who wants her saying yes to something that she doesn't know
    the meaning of and would say no if she did?
    
    judy

    I was at a friend's last night and her 9 year old son was singing to
    the music on the radio.  He said the lines to a song and his older
    sister went ballistic.  I can't believe he said that, MOM!!!  Turns our
    he had no idea what he was saying or what it meant.  The term he said
    was "making love...".  I guess I never thought of this, but for the
    most part kids that age (mine included) do not understand these terms
    and some aren't interested in hearing about them.  My son heard
    something on the TV last night and I asked if he knew what it meant and
    he said no and I don't want to either.  OK for me!
    
    

    I think that 9 is too young to be dating.  Or even having
    a girlfriend or boyfriend.
    
    I have an 11 year old daughter, and a 15 1/2 year old daughter.
    
    The older one had a couple of "boyfriends" at school when she was
    12, but they only lasted a day or two.
    
    The younger one seems more interested in boys in general, but 
    hasn't had a boyfriend yet (that I know of anyway).
    
    I just tell them (when they're in elementary school) that they're
    too young to even be thinking about dating and there will be plenty
    of time for that later, when they're older.   They should just
    have fun and have friends...
    
    Of course, now that the older one is approaching 16, I'll get to
    deal with *real* dating soon.  ugh!
    
    Noranne
      

    My 9-year-old son informed me last night that his best friend got a 
    love letter from someone in the class.
    
    "What did he do with the letter?"
    
    "He threw it away in the trash." (and he gave me a look like, "What
    *else* would he have done with it?"  :-) )
    
    
    Because of this string, I talked to my two older boys about girls
    liking boys in their classes, and vice versa, and almost all the girls 
    in the 3rd and 4th grade classes "like" a boy, but almost *none* of
    the boys like the girls.  The boys like sports....  :-)
    
    
    

>    Because of this string, I talked to my two older boys about girls
>    liking boys in their classes, and vice versa, and almost all the girls 
>    in the 3rd and 4th grade classes "like" a boy, but almost *none* of
>    the boys like the girls.  The boys like sports....  :-)
 
While I certainly understand and relate to the smily face, I think that 
distinction is kind of sad.

Clay   

    Be careful, your little ones could be kicked out of school for sexual
    harrassment!!!!!!!!
    
    For those who don't know the story, a little 6 year old, yes 6, gave a
    little girl at his school a hug and kiss on the back of the head in PE
    class and wished her a happy Valentine's Day.  The Teacher who observed
    it reported it to the principal as sexual harrassment and the boy was
    expelled from school.  The report I heard, the little girl made no
    objection to the hug and kiss, it was the teacher.
    
    Kids can't even be cute anymore!!
    

<                      <<< Note 689.33 by ANGLIN::HARRIS >>>

Where did you hear/read this, and what school/city was it?

This sounds like an urban legend to me.

        Carol

    No, believe it or not I think it was in a mid-west state like maybe
    Nebraska.  But not sure about that.  The father of the boy who was
    expelled called into the Rush Limbaugh show about a week ago, and now
    the other news programs have picked up on it.  No doubt it will be on
    one of the News Magazine shows (like 20/20) soon.  CNN was going to
    cover it also but I don't know when.  But I remember thinking the same
    thing when I first heard about it "sure this must have been in New York
    or LA" but not the case.  I think the school is trying to keep it out
    of the news, but the family of the boy are being very outspoken.  Rush
    Limbaugh also talked about it the other night when he was on the
    Tonight Show with Jay!
    
    

Thank you for citing the source.  It allows me to make my own judgment as to 
its reliability.

Clay

Well I entered a note earlier, centered around my 13 year old daughter.  I 
thought this issue didn't apply to my 10 year old son at all.  Well, it does.

He has a "girlfriend".  He has her picture on her nightstand.  Fortunately, 
she lives far away, and they see each other only once or twice a week.  He 
says he going to "take her out".  We say, "No, you aren't". 

Oh well.

Clay

    Hi Clay,
    
    Well at least it's nice to know that my son is "normal".  My
    son informed me last night that Amanda dumped Steven and came
    back to him and that he now has 3 girlfriends!
    
    Oh well
    
    Peggy
    

    Clay,
    
    Does he understand what "take her out" really means?  Maybe he means
    next time he goes to the playground he wants her to go too??  I wonder
    if sometimes we interject Our definitions of their terms.  There's lots
    of times when kids have different meanings for words, and use the words
    just because they've heard them.
    
    Here's one ....
    
    Chris(9 on Sat) was asking if he'd ever have a sister.  Since I had my
    tubes tied, I told him that I wouldn't be having any more children, but
    if daddy had a girlfriend/wife, that they might be able to have a baby
    if they wanted to.
    
    Chris pipes up "I know what they'd have to do!"
    ... this is a subject we haven't discussed yet at all ...
    
    
    Me: What do you mean?
    Chris: I know what they'd have to do before they had a baby!
    Me: Oh?  What?
    Chris: You know ...
    Me: What?
    Chris: Well, you know, they'd have to have s! (he wouldn't finish
    	saying it)
    Me: (Slightly panicked, but not wanting to make a big deal about it)
    And what would they do?
    Chris: You know - have s!  They'd have to kiss each other!!
    
    So, to him sex is kissing, and until I feel a little more together, and
    until HE'S a little more together to understand more, I think we'll
    leave it at that. (-:
    
    It may help to confirm that you're both talking "apples" here ...
    
    Patty

Yes, he "kinda" knows what "take her out" means.  His older sister (13) "goes 
out" in a way that we feel comfortable about.  She goes to her "date's" house 
(we make sure that his parents are there) or he comes to ours, or they meet 
at a movie theatre and watch a movie together, usually with several other 
couples.

On the other hand "going out" seems to be lingo for "be a girl/boyfriend".  
The way this whole thing started was that a friend of Gary's "girlfriend" 
said to him "Will you take xxxx out?"  He said "sure" (I think he was totally 
unprepared for the question).

I'm baffled by all of this.  Girls these days seem to be a lot more 
aggressive a lot younger than I remember.

Clay

    Both my husband & I are having a hard time with this.  Lauren is
    in 6th Grade, she turned 11 in June.  Most of her friends are 12 or 
    will be turning 12 within the next couple months.  We spoke with Lauren
    last year and told her "No Dating" don't even ask until you're in the
    9th grade.  Well she came home the other day and asked if she could do
    a "Group Date".  A few boys and girls going to the movies, I still 
    don't like this idea.  She did tell me that a certain boy at school
    asked her to go to the movies, not her and her friends.  Am I being
    unreasonalbe by saying no?
    
    Julie
    

    Lolita started going out to movies with a batch of kids when she was in
    the sixth grade.  It wasn't so much a "dating" thing, as the kids just
    enjoying themselves at a function.  some background:  We knew most of
    the kids as they were all in our neighborhood, knew most of the
    parents, and who was driving and would be at the theater seeing a movie
    they wanted to see.  I don't think you could really call it a dating
    situation.  
    
    When she was 14, she and "the gang" started hanging out together in a
    freer setting, but it was still groups until the kids were in the 9th
    grade.  
    
    I guess it depends on who is going, who is driving and picking up and
    where they plan to be while the movie is showing.  It also depends on
    your level of trust with your daughter, and how long you want to keep
    it up.  She was honest enough to tell you it was a mixed group, and
    that  particular boy asked her.  Putting on my former adolexcent hat,
    if you aren't comfortable with this situation, find some reason other
    than it is with a mixed group of people to turn her down than the fact
    that members of the opposite sex will be there.  Been there and quickly
    learned what my parents didn't want to hear when I wanted to go
    somewhere with people they didn't approve of.  I feel keeping the
    communications open with Lolita is what probably spared me a lot of the
    more negative experiences of raising a teenager until she becomes an
    adult.  
    
    meg

    Since our son is still a few years away from the dating age, I can
    speak with full authority about group dating :)
    
    In any case, I think it's a good idea for young people who are
    still too young to be dating as couples to go out together in mixed
    groups.  The assumption here is that it's just a bunch of young
    people doing fun things together, and that it doesn't turn into
    groups of couples doing things that they shouldn't be doing until
    they're older and more mature.
    
    Since our young people are eventually going to start dating anyway,
    it's probably best to help them ease into it.  Being in mixed groups
    may help do that, and, depending on the individuals involved, might
    even delay the start of serious dating.
    
    Although a "no (couples-only) dates until you're x years old" rule is probably
    reasonable to protect young people until they're mature enough, we
    still have to accept the fact that boys and girls will start being
    interested in each other somewhat earlier, and, regardless of what
    we do (short of locking them up) will interact with each other.
    So we should encourage supportive situations for these interactions
    so that our young people can be open with us about where they're
    at.
       

    Speaking only as a former pre-teen ...
    
    I don't see the harm in a pack of boys and girls going on a "group
    date" at 11 and 12.
    
    Speaking as that same former pre-teen who had parents who were more
    strict than the norm for the time [mid-60s] ...
    
    I went "group dates" to movies, bowling alleys, and swimming pools with
    my parents full knowledge and approval starting at age 11. My parents
    always knew who had asked me, who else was going to be there, what sort
    of supervision would be present, the logistics of transportation, and
    what time I would be home.
    
    These outings weren't terribly date-like in retrospect, but a
    particular boy had asked me to be a part of the group and I had good
    times.
    
      Annie

    Maybe I'm showing my age here, but I feel sixth grade is too 
    young for even a group date.  There will be plenty of time
    as young adults (IMO approximately 16 years of age) to group 
    date.  I realize peer pressure probably has a lot to do with 
    your childs' desire to group date, but he/she has plenty of
    time, don't let your child rush it.
    
    Just my opinion,
    Terry 

    Group activities are one thing - calling it dating in 6th grade feels
    really young to me. Especially as I hear anecdotes from friends of some
    classes of 6th grade girls, in particular, being pretty sexually
    sophisticated and assertive.
    
    

    
    Am I too old???  If there's a pile of kids together, going to some
    "event" (movie, bowling, ice cream etc), and they're without their own
    transportation (ie. PARENTS are driving them to/fro), then what
    difference does it make what they call it ???  WHERE are you concerned 
    about them doing anything??  Would you feel fine about it if you were
    along?  Do you think that they'd act THAT differently if you
    were/weren't there ??  I mean aside from being particularly goofy and 
    maybe swearing or gossiping?  
    
    Maybe I'm living in my own little world, but I think at that age, kids
    are more just into hanging out together, and very few are into having
    any kind of serious sex at all.  If you're concerned about a kiss, then
    you probably have something to worry about.
    
    If you're concerned that your son/daughter is REALLY going to go out, 
    with a bunch of other kids, sneak off somewhere, and have sex with
    someone they barely know, then it's going to happen anyway, whether
    it's this "date" or staying late after school.  
    
    I WOULD think it's a good time to have a very clear conversation about
    sex and the what-to, what-not-to -dos.  Make sure that your child has 
    change and knows how to get ahold of you in case the "gang" is behaving
    in a way that they would rather not participate.  TRUST that you've 
    brought them up right.  Keep the curfew early.  Find out WHY they're
    calling it a date - and if they're definition of DATE is very different
    that yours.
    
    ... and let 'em go.  Take a few valium, and pace the floor and HOPE
    that you made the right decision, and you've covered all the important
    stuff.At least I THINK that's what parenting a pre(barely!)-teenager
    involves a lot of....
    
    And make your feelings clear .... "Look, I'm not too crazy about this,
    especially since you're calling it a date.  I think you're too young to
    date.  But I know you're growing up, and I have to let you do things on
    your own and make some of your own decisions.  I know the kids that
    you're going with, and they seem like good kids.  I will let you go, but
    please know that I'm trusting you, and this isn't easy for me.  But I
    ALSO know that you're such a bright, wonderful kid, that you'll make the
    smart decisions.  Please don't disappoint me.  And have a GREAT time!"
    
    ...oh, and here's some dimes - call if you have ANY trouble, and I
    promise I won't embarass you or yell at you if you find you need me for
    anything during the evening .... I just want you to be safe. I Love You.
    
    Hopefully I can "let go" as gracefully in the next few years, that
    we're RAPIDLY approaching.
    
    GOOD LUCK!!!!!!
    
    Patty

    
    
    I agree with last Note. I think calling this dating is a bit much, it
    sounds like a group of kids hanging out and playing. Maybe its the
    culture difference (I'm European) but dating to me is not something
    that 9 year olds (or indeed 13 ys olds) do.
    
    But then again, maybe the US is that much different

    No way.....
    
    I agree with .45.  Too young for things like that now, and that's all
    you have to say.  End of discussion.
    
    Mother of five; grandmother to one.
    Lorraine

   Another thing that I want to throw into the pot is her use of the
   terms, such as "date" or "go out".  It might not mean the same
   thing to you as it does to your daughter.

    For literally years, my then-grade-school step-daughters would talk
    about who they were "going out" with, and who their friends were
    "going out" with.  And that simply meant who they "liked" that 
    week/day/hour.  And, also, the really fun question from
    us parents was "Does the boy in question know this?" (fun because the 
    answer was usually "No".)

    As far as a group of kids going someplace together, why should it
    matter if they're mixed sex or not?  Wouldn't saying that your
    daughter can ONLY go to the movies in a group if it's only girls
    make it look all the more appealing/naughty to have a boy in the
    crowd?

    I agree wholeheartedly that dating, like you or I might call it 
    with one boy/one girl, shouldn't be for several more years ... 

		ymmv,

			- Lorri

Just a couple of comments:

	Bear in mind that the most recent thread of discussion is about a
	12-year-old girl going on a group date, not a nine-year-old, in case
	that makes any difference in your mind.

	A male friend of mine in elementary school and junior high used to
	go places together, and we always called it a "date" until my mother
	suggested that we change the term (for reasons that didn't become
	clear until high school :-) .

						Brian