Conference moira::parenting

    Lindsey started using a fork and spook when she was 1 year old.  She
    wasn't very neat about it but has gotten much better.  We started by
    giving her something that stuck to the spoon, yogurt and oatmeal were
    the two easy things.  They make spoons that look like handles, gives
    them something to grab onto, she didn't like this, she wanted the
    regular spoon. 
    
    As for the cup, we are still using a sippy cup, she doesn't understand
    a cup yet and it all runs down her mouth and chin to her clothes.  I
    don't remember when she started with a sippy cup.  We helped her hold
    it until she could do it herself. 
    
    Lisa Cozzens

    
    	I used to load up the spoon and hand it to Emily starting
    	around 12 months.
    
    	At 14 months, I gave her a spoon and a cup of yogurt, and
    	she fed herself.
    
    	Over the next few months, I let her feed herself when a) it
    	didn't matter if she soiled her clothes, b) I knew I had time
    	to clean her up well,  or c) it was a food she was particularly
    	skilled with (mashed potatoes mixed with anything ;-) ).  
    
    	She 19 months now, and I realized a couple weeks ago that I
    	shouldn't be holding her back out of my own convenience, and have
    	let her feed herself almost every meal we've had since then.  (Of
    	course, this happens to coincide perfectly with Emily's decision to
    	not allow me to feed her anymore ;-) ).  I was suprised to see that
    	she's doing very well, spilling very little and eating with either
    	a fork or spoon.  She has switched from righty-only to eating with
    	either the left or right hand.  It's almost as though she was just
    	ready for it.
    
    	As for cups, I think I introduced the sippy cup first around
    	8 months.  I took her off the bottle at 13 months.  She uses
    	a Rubbermaid "Sippin' Saver" now, which has a built-in straw.
    
    	She has learned how to drink from regular cup without
   	drowning/dousing herself with the contents, but I prefer the 
    	straw.  I'm not sure when she learned this, I only know that I gave
    	her a dixie-cup of juice in the store about 1 month ago, and she
    	didn't spill a drop.
    
    Karen
    

Our daughter is 6 months.   Last week we saw her reaching for a cup my 
husband was using.   We let her grab it (us still holding) and she 
guided it to her open mouth (didnt' let her drink - was tea).  

So we took the signal and took out her sippy cup and she took it with 
both hands and put it correctly into her mouth.  She doesn't have the 
"tipping" it part yet, we help with that.   She drinks some, and some 
runs out of her mouth.  

    Spoon: We encouraged her to use a spoon as soon as she could hold
    it and get stuff into her mouth (she liked to twist the spoon so that 
    the contents spilled on her bib before she got anything). For sometime
    now she eats on her own, but seems to have regressed to enjoying both
    spoon and fingers (using either hand).
    
    Drinking: She does well drinking from a sippy cup or a regular cup
    with our help for sometime now, its just taken practice (she's been
    demanding to drink from our cups for a while, and it went from
    consistant spilling and choking, to a reasonable drink). We still
    use bottles when she is not at her chair though; she still has a
    tendency to try to baptize everything in site as she likes to shake
    the sippy cup. She knows that sippy cups are not for wandering, but
    she does like to play in the livingroom whilst having her juice or
    her milk before bed. I too am starting to wonder whose convenience
    we are addressing. But, like most other busy moms, I am thinking that 
    I shouldn't put taking the bottles away for good, off any longer
    We have a variety of sippy cup styles, but the favourite for
    us and for her is the tupperware brand (we have 4 of those) good
    stuff.
    
    Monica
    
    

    BTW, Charlotte is 20 months now.....
    
    Monica

Do you mean using a spoon to drink from a cup or do you mean (a) using a 
spoon and (b) drinking from a cup?

Reason I bring this up is that I remember both of our kids drinking with a 
spoon (don't remember precisely at what age).  They would drink their milk or 
juice or whatever with a spoon, kind of like you eat soup.

Clay

I usually fed the babies before dinner started, so
I could eat with my husband.  So, as soon as the
kids could sit in a high chair, they would sit
with us while we ate.  (Maybe 5-6 months).

I would put cheerios and a toddler spoon on the
tray.  They'd wave the spoon for fun and try to eat
cheerios with their hands.  We'd have a sippy cup 
in case they wanted to try.  It took only a week or two
to get the hang of a sippy cup.  If the kid can
hold their own bottle, they can do a sippy cup.

When they started having some success getting
pieces of food in their mouths, I started feeding 
them at the same time as us.  This was the point
where we would give them finger food to work with,
and I would shovel baby food in around the finger
food.  They still had the spoon to wave around (maybe 
8-9 months old).

When they started grabbing the spoon I fed them with,
I started giving them yogurt in a bowl as part of 
their dinner.  They loved this; if they could get the
spoon anywhere near their mouths, they got rewarded.
I also added a toddler fork to the utensil list.
(about 10-11 months old).

Now, at 14 months, Sarah completely feeds herself. She
attempts to spear things with the toddler fork, and when 
she loses patience, just reverts to her hands.  (She
succeeds often enough to encourage herself, altho
ocassionally we help guide the hand).

She doesn't get that messy because we don't allow food-
playing (too many hungry people in the world).  When
the playing begins, we remove the tray and give her
a book or toy to play with.

Both kids followed this pattern at about the same
ages.  The idea is to let them keep working at it until
they can do it.

Your mileage may vary, of course...

Pat

    A couple things occurred at the same time for us.  Matthew always
    reached for our glass and if there was something like water in it, we
    would let him have a sip or two from it while we held the glass.  He
    seemed to quickly realize that the liquid came out easily versus him
    having to suck a nipple.  Also, shortly before this, he was able to
    drink from the bottle by himself (approx. 6 mos.), including tipping
    the bottle back to get the liquid down into the nipple.   Since this
    skill is also necessary for drinking from a cup, we then started giving
    him a "sippy cup" with juice in it.  He does very well with it,
    although sometimes he gets so excited that he gulps too quickly and
    coughs.  Also, once he's done drinking, he decides to toss the cup
    around.  That's when I pull it away.  Matthew hasn't responded real
    well to putting formula in the cup, only juice or water.  We'll keep
    trying (he's 8 1/2 months now).
    
    As far as the spoon goes, when I think of it, I'll let him hold a
    toddler spoon while I feed him.  If I have the time and inclination,
    I'll put something like oatmeal on the spoon and let him put it in his
    mouth.  He hasn't shown much desire to use the spoon, so I'm not going
    to push it.  I'll just let him become familiar with it.  Right now, he
    seems to be concentrating more on the finger foods.  Speaking of which
    besides things like toast, bagels, english muffins, crackers, cheerios
    and teeting bisquits, what else have you veteran parents given your
    children of this age for finger foods?  He started eating solids around
    3 months due to his size, and is eating Stage 2 and 3 foods.  Any
    suggestions?  Thanks!
    
    Lynn
    

    I'm not what you'd call a veteran parent but:
    
    I tried Rowan with a 'sippy' cup (I think I know what you mean by this)
    just before he was 6 months old. He was able to hold the two handles
    and he was able to put the spout in his mouth - just not at the same
    time :-) He also thought that as a rattle it was fairly disappointing
    (and I got soaked). He's used it more recently (and more successfully) 
    because an ulcer on his tongue (from the first tooth) has made it 
    difficult for him to suck a teat, now nearly 7 months.
    
    Like Matthew, Rowan could hold & tip a bottle (if it wasn't too full)
    at around 6 months.
    
    For as long as he has been taking solids, he's always had his own spoon
    to 'use' whilst we feed him. This requires both feeder and feedee to
    wear waterproofs for protection against airborne food. He can put the
    spoon in his mouth, and if it happens to have food on it, eat from it.
    He does tend to then try & eat the spoon as well. I think the important
    thing is to keep things fun (and if that means rusk in your hair...).
    
    Rowan's favourite finger food is toast, but he does teethe on 'stick'
    vegetables like celery and carrots.
    
    Andy
    
    PS What's an english muffin (and can we get them in England!)

    
    Be glad that "as a rattle, it was dissapointing."  Peter, 18 months,
    thinks the milk spatters landing on the table, the floor, and his head
    are infinitely amusing!
    
    
    :-)
    JAmd

    Re: .9
    
    An "english muffin" can be typically described as bread, round but with
    flat sides.  It is split/cut down the middle and most often appreciated
    toasted.  A common brand name is "Thomas's English Muffins",
    which I thought...or so the commercials say, originated in England.  I
    personally enjoy an english muffin over toast.  I guess I just love the
    way the butter melts into the "nooks n' crannies" (air pockets in the
    bread).  But I hold the butter for Matthew.  He just eats it lightly
    toasted.
    
    ...I'm getting hungry! 
    
    - Lynn   :)
    
    
    
    

    I always figured they evolved from scones, but I think "English muffins" 
    are thinner, less dense, and less sweet.
    
    Leslie

>    I always figured they evolved from scones, but I think "English muffins" 
>    are thinner, less dense, and less sweet.

Don't you mean crumpets?  Scones are more like what we Americans call a biscuit;
English muffins seem to be very close to crumpets.

	-Neil

    Whoops, yes I think you're right.  I completely forgot about crumpets!
    
    Leslie

    "nooks & crannies" certainly sounds like crumpet, but here they come as
    a one piece (no split or cut). An 'English muffin' sounds like a cross
    between an English 'muffin' and an English 'crumpet' (err, if you see
    what I mean :-)
    
    Anyway, *rathole alert*, I guess I've got the picture now.
    
    Andy

    Our pedi recommended the Tippee Tommy (or is it Tommy Tippee) 
    sippy cup by Playschool.  It is shaped to make it more difficult
    to spill.  Of course my daughter, 15 months, enjoys watching the
    milk drip out of the cup much more than drinking out of it :)
    
    The doctor recommended the cup by age 15 months but didn't mention
    using a spoon.
    
    - Cathy

    My daughter started using a sippy cup by about 7 -8 months, and still
    loves to drink out of our glasses.  She gets annoyed wh en I don't let
    her drink my Diet Dr. Pepper, but at least she now knows that she's not
    that fond of the taste!  She's still on 2 bottles a day, but I'm trying
    to wean her off of them now (Emily's 15.5 months).  She took a sippy
    cup with some of her milk this a.m., but still wanted the bottle. 
    Anyone else doing this?  Am I late doing this, or early?  Her doctor
    said to start getting her off the bottle, so I get the impression that
    she's kind of late...
    
    I haven't tried a fork yet, but will this weekend!  ;-)  Emily's still
    not that proficient with a spoon, but can pretty much feed herself now.
    I was trying to feed around her spoon with a second spoon, 
    but she usually ends up grabbing that one too.  I now try to help her
    spoon up something and then she puts it into her mouth by herself. 
    She's getting the hang of it, and they push it at daycare too, so she
    can see other kids doing it.  They ask us to bring in only 1 messy food
    a day so that there aren't 18 kids trying to eat all messy foods! 
    (Boy, what a picture!!)
    
    When she starts playing with it, I take it away.
    

    re .17
    
    My Emily gave up the bottle when she was 25 months.  Mom and dad
    decided that her New Year's resolution was to give up her morning and
    evening bottles.  On the advice of her pedi, we did it cold turkey. 
    The bottles went up in the attic on New Year's Eve so that we couldn't
    easily give in.  We showed her the empty space where we used to store
    the bottles and told her we didn't have them anymore.  Within a few
    days she stopped asking for them.  It was much easier than we thought
    it would be.  We tried gradual weaning and that didn't work at all
    because we always gave in to her complaining.  I also think she was
    more emotionally ready than she was when we had tried earlier.
    
    Carol

    I think they start getting emotionally attached to the bottle between
    12 and 15 months.  With our oldest we put away the bottles cold turkey
    at 12 months at the pediatrician's recommendation - she had no problem
    missing it or adjusting to a cup.  Our 2nd (15 mos) was a little different 
    temprament so we've given in (we're a little more emotionally attached to 
    the bottle this time!) - 1 a day of diluted juice.  Depending on our 
    activities - out in public in a stroller (she's very active and a bottle 
    buys us time) or home she may or may not have one.  However, as soon as 
    she see's a bottle or hears the word she gets herself into a major begging 
    fit and she'll stand in the corner by the cabinet whinning and totally 
    undistractable.  She has definitely become emotionally attached and I 
    think we've missed the window of opportunity for an easy disappearance!
                       

    My son (14 months) drinks from a sippy cup with no problem - juice,
    water, or milkshakes (milk with a banana blended in).
    
    He won't take milk from one though!  He is off formula now - and
    on 3 bottles of milk per day.  I keep trying the milk in the sippy
    cup but he just lets it drain right out of his mouth - he won't
    even swallow!  That is why I started with the banana milkshakes,
    figuring that maybe he's get used to it but no luck yet.
    
    Any ideas on how to get him to take milk from a cup?  Currently
    I'm just trying every couple of days ...
    
    - Barb

    
    	A friend of mine had lots of difficulty trying to take a bottle
    away from her 2.5 year old son. He fought so hard that she thought it
    would be near impossbile to *ever* get him off of it.
    
    	What worked in *one* day was to switch the regular nipple with a
    sippy cup nipple, he had no desire to "suck" on the sippy cup nipple
    and now prefers his milk in a cup to a bottle with a sippy cup nipple.
    
    	Literally happened over night.
    
    	With us, for sanity reasons (It's a lot neater than walking around
    with an open cup) Spencer gets his juice in a bottle with a sippy
    nipple. Dosen't bother us (I know I've written about this before) he
    drinks more fluids and we don't have sticky dead apple juice all over
    the place.
    
    	At daycare and when we go out he uses a cup or straw.
    
    			Wendy

    Try the Magmag cup system, which has a cup with a nipple, that can then
    be replaced with a sippy lid. (I have a whole bag of stuff, if you want
    to buy it cheap ::-)  My sons were both drinking juice from the sippy 
    at 12 months and then gradually weaned their formula/milk from a nipple
    to a sippy. The point was that from about 10 months on, they never
    _saw_ a bottle, just cups with various lids.
    
    Lynn
    

the previous reply raises an interesting question.     I see that 
there are two products for transition bottle - cup.   1) put a sippy 
spout on a bottle or 2) put a bottle nipple on a sippy type cup.   

My daughter is 8.5 months and uses bottles with nipples to drink 
breastmilk at the sitters.    At home she uses a sippy cup to drink 
juice/water with breakfast and dinner.   I see these more as practice 
sessions than anything, although more liquid is now going down her 
throat as oppsed to down the front of her.   On balace for her age, 
the cup use is going very well.  


I've thought of putting a sippy nipple on the bottles in a couple of 
months in an aim to have her bottle free at 12 months.      I did not 
realize there was a product which had a nipple on a cup body.  

Which do you think is better for transition:  

- a sippy nipple on a bottle, so that they practice on the different 
spout.   This would imply that the biggest adjustment is the change of 
the "nipple".  

- a bottle nipple on a cup body, so that they practice holding the 
cup.  This would imply that the biggest adjustment is holding the body 
of the cup.   



I'm leaning towards the second for a couple of reasons.   She wastes a 
lot of the juice when using the sippy cup, which is not good with 
breastmilk because she needs it for nutrition, and because you can't 
just refill it if she wastes it all.    As I watch her with the 
cup/juice, she has no problem with the liquid coming out of the spout, 
but she seems to need the practice with tipping it correctly, not 
flinging it, etc.    

What do you think?  

	re -.23

	My feeling is that it's more important to learn how to tip the
        container and drink with the sippy cover, so I'd say to go that
	way.  But really at 8.5 months I think it is just practice like
	you said. 

	My daughter will be 1 next weekend.  When she was about 9 months
	I started giving her a sippy cup and cover with juice in it every
	once in a while.  At about 10.5 months I started giving it to
	her more often and at 11 months I started giving her only the sippy
	cup&cover first and then the bottle (when the sippy cup became only
	a game and there was formula flying all over the kitchen).  But
	I started each meal with the sippy cup first.  Now at 11.5 months
	I put all the bottles away.  I think I was only having her use
	a bottle for my convenience (less mess).  She only has a sippy cup
	now for all liquids.  I'm amazed that in a few days she has gone
	from most of it on her to most of it in her mouth!  

        Note:  I DON'T have a problem taking a night (just before bedtime)
               bottle away from her because she's never had one.

	The one thing I'm concerned about is that maybe she's not drinking
	enough.  She only drinks about 4oz of whole milk at each meal -
	so total 12 oz a day.  Then she has about another 4oz of juice.
	I've been giving her yogurt every day to try to make sure she gets
	all the calcium.  Does anyone have any suggestions for making sure
	she's getting all the nutrients she should that are in the milk?
        
        Good luck - It's funny to see them with milk all over their face
                     and hair.  Sometime I can't help laughing - they say
                      mealtime should be fun - most nights it's hilarious!!

	Karen T.

    re .23 .... if she's going with a regular sippy-cup now, I'd skip the
    whole idea of mixing the bottle/cup.  Keep the bottle a bottle, and the
    cup a cup.  I found some *WONDERFUL* sippy cups .... they're made by
    The First Years, and are about $1.50-$2.00 each.  There is a "spout"
    that leads to the part where the child drinks from, so this helps
    eliminate them from getting flooded.  Jonathan is 6 mos old, and we
    still tip the cup, but he does great swallowing most of it - very
    little ends up down the front of him.  It'll be a while before HE tips
    the cup, as he still doesn't even reach for his bottle with his hands
    (though he does strain for it with his mouth wide open - it's pretty
    funny).
    
    I don't have any idea how old my other boys were before they were
    successfully tipping cups.  One thing to beware .... we were *SO*
    concerned with Chris drinking from a cup, and getting him off the
    bottle, that he forgot how to "suck", and it was even harder to teach
    him how to use a straw!
    
    Always something....!
    
    
    

    Another option is to try a straw. We were amazed at how early, and
    easily both our sons drank from straws.
    
    

We bought the MagMag system thinking it would help the transition from a 
nipple to a sippy cup.  Erin never did well with it in sippy mode although
she loved it as a bottle and liked to hold onto the handles.  We also tried 
Tommy Tippee cups and she didn't do well with those either.

Then once (at Spencer's 2nd birthday party!) she was given a different kind
of sippy cup, the spout was much smaller and she drank down several cups of
juice that day.  We went out and bought a bunch- they are the Tupperware
type- and she's had success with them.  At 18 months now she can adapt to
most cups and usually a straw, but we had to find a sippy cup that suited her
during the learning stage.  We had no trouble with nipples when she was an 
infant, she could adjust to different brands, so this hadn't occured to us.

I also want to note that people might want to be careful about establishing
a pattern of juice in a cup vs. milk/formula/breastmilk in a bottle.  I know
some friends who had difficulty getting their children to drink milk in a cup.  
We used both for both while we were transitioning and establish a connection.

Our daycare center was using the bottle for comfort for a few months after
we stopped using it at home.  Finally, we brought in a stuffed animal for
Erin, and they used that for comfort and we were able to get her off the 
bottle.  Make sure that others aren't setting patterns that you don't want to
have to break yourself.

Jackie

Marc is now taking milk from a cup.  It just took patience on our
part.  Every day we would try it.  Every day he would spit it out
and then push the cup away.  He wouldn't even let me leave the cup
on the tray of his highchair 8^)

Still, he would drink juice, water, milkshakes of milk and bananas,
from a cup no problem.  His milk just didn't belong in a cup!

Then one day he drank a little at daycare.  I tried it at supper
and he drank a whole cup of milk as though it was the best thing
I had ever given him!!!  I cut out a bottle at a time (he was
still on 2/day).  He didn't miss them at all!  He still doesn't 
drink alot of milk - but I'm not too worried since he loves yogurt
and cheese also and gets some calcium in that way also.

Just had to wait until he was ready I guess ... !

- Barb

    
    	Barb,
    
    	My daughter was the same way - she drank anything in a sippy cup
    	except milk.  What worked best for us was a cup with a built-in
    	straw.  Unfortunately, by the time we switched to it, she was in
    	the habit of only drinking about 8 ounces of milk a day.  Now,
    	at 22 months, she's begun increasing her milk intake to 16 ounces
    	a day.  She loves yogurt and cheese, so I know she got plenty of
    	calcium during the "limited milk" stage.
    
    Karen