Conference moira::parenting

    I have some questions about how people raise their young kids.  
    
    I must preface that my attitudes are basically quite liberal.  I am
    comfortable with nude kids, I think masturbation is fine if done in
    private, and I have no discomfort with body functions.  I myself 
    always wear clothing, although my daughter often sees me naked while
    bathing or changing my clothes.  The most sexual I act in front of her,
    or anyone, is light kissing and hugs.
    
    My daughter is 2 years, 10 months.  When we are at home together, she
    sometimes plays with her sexual parts.  It is summer and has been quite
    hot, so she has often been naked.  She doesn't wear diapers anymore.  I
    want to start teaching her that she should do this in private only,
    that is, not in front of me or anyone else.  I don't mind seeing her do
    it, but it is inappropriate in front of other people.  So I think she
    may as well learn not to do it in front of anyone, including me.
    
    When is she old enough to understand this concept?  I don't want her to
    be ashamed of her body or masturbation.  But I think she is probably
    old enough to learn to do this behind closed doors.
    
    How can I communicate this to her effectively?
    
    I am teaching her about privacy.  I want her to knock before she enters
    a room when I am in there with the door closed.  I want her to not
    enter if I tell her not to.  I just started this weekend, saying "You
    must respect my privacy.  I need to be private."  Sometimes I REALLY
    don't want her in the bathroom with me though it is mostly okay.  We
    had varying results.  How do you teach your kids, and at what age?
    
    Laura

    We have taught Gina that a closed door means that it stays closed until
    you knock and get permission to enter.  She does always knock, but she
    has some trouble with waiting to enter.  Luckily, this hasn't been a
    real problem so far...
    
    We also teach her that she can touch herself, but this is in absolute
    privacy only.  Not in the tub when Mom is washing her, not in bed when
    we are reading before her bedtime, nor anywhere else. 
    
    Gina sees me naked too.  I dress and shower with her.  It's not a big
    deal to me.  She hasn't seen her father since she was a small infant
    because he is uncomfortable being naked around her.  I think she is
    developing a good sense about her body and not feeling ashamed about
    it.
    
    Just yesterday I was holding her on my hip while we were in a line for
    the ladies room and she very loudly said, "Mom, my vagina hurts!"  I
    said, "Well, let's get you comfortable."  I shifted her position and
    that took care of it.  *I* was slightly embarrased, but figured if
    someone can't handle a 3-year old expressing discomfort and being
    honest about it, then they could glare at me.  
    
    This is something I've thought a lot about and am modeling my behavior
    after a friend.  She has two daughters, now 8 and 12 and they are
    great kids.  They have good self-esteem, are not exhibiting any odd
    sexual behavior in public, and seem well adjusted to me.
    
    judy

    I just reread my reply, and realize I didn't exactly answer your
    question Laura.
    
    If she is touching herself, I acknowledge that while this feels good
    and is fine to do, it is something we don't do around other people,
    including Mommy and Daddy.  Last week we had a lengthly discussion
    about it because she asked me to participate.  I told her that no one
    is supposed to touch her but that she could do it by herself.  I've
    also told her in the past that her Doctor might need to examine her,
    but that there is a difference between the doctor examining her and
    being touched to make it feel good.
    
    Does this help?  It may sound odd, but it all seems to work.  I talk to
    her about this as I do when I talk to her about getting dressed,
    brushing her teeth, eating lunch, and any other normal preschool
    activity.  In other words, I am comfortable talking about this, so she
    doesn't sense any forbiddenness about this.
    
    judy

Evan is 5 now, and has been touching himself for years.  I can't remember
when we first started telling him to take it to his room, but it was likely
around age 3 1/2, when he was no longer in diapers and had readier access
to these parts.

I would guess that one of the keys here is to not seem to upset about it.
We used similar statements to Judy's, like "Honey, it's fine if you want to
do that, but you have to do it in your room or the bathroom when no one
else is around."  This gave him a choice of staying where he was and no longer
masturbating, or else going to his room to continue the activity.

     Carol 

    Well, it sounds like Ilona is just about ready to learn a.) to play
    with her body in private, and b.) to respect people's privacy.
    
    She is a bit younger than the ages given by Judy and Carol, but I may
    as well start.  She is precocious about social niceties.
    
    If anyone else has more suggestions, I will read them all.
    
    Thanks Judy, Carol, Lyn!
    
    Laura

    You said it yourself -- "it feels good to her".  That's how all
    kids discover themselves.
    
    If it's any consolation, it's usually a short-lived phase.  
    
    I told my boys that they were free to do that upstairs in their room.
    It's certainly not an activity for the living room.  :-)
    
    This, too, shall pass.    
         

    
    
    Yep, my little guys found themselves too.  But it was short lived when
    we said simply said "you need to do in your room".  They didn't go to 
    their rooms and it was short lived.  But all kids discover their private 
    parts at some point, the thing to avoid is saying something hysterical
    like "HEY, what are you doing, Don't do that, that's bad"!  That will
    only confuse, not to mention SCARE the kid.
    
    Also, I don't think this is necessarily something that they picked up 
    watching those "smutty" soap operas.  These discoveries are natural. 
    They don't become a problem until somebody makes it a problem.
    
    NF
    
      
    
    

    You don't mention how how hold she is (in the basenote), but if she is
    old enough to understand what your saying I believe the proper approach
    is to tell her that masturbation should be done in private.  I would
    not be judgemental about the activity ITSELF... just WHERE she is doing
    it. I believe that it can be VERY harmful if you instill guilt over
    the activity.  I wouldn't make a big deal of it, but I would stress
    that its not to be done in front of other people.  We have told our
    son (6) if you need to do that, please do it in your own room.
    
    Jeff

    
    re.3 she is 5.....

    Its definitely only a little boy thing. Smile
    
    My six year old 'never' does it in front of anyone that I can see, so
    its obviously an individual thing.
    
    Maybe you can help him stop by understanding why he is doing it and
    providing a substitute.
    
    Seriously, he is doing it because it feels good, and/or it comforts
    him.
    I doubt that he is even aware he is doing it. I saw a kid about six
    doing it on a national TV show.... I was embarassed for him and his
    parents who must have been writhing.
    
    Anyway, can you find something to keep his hands busy... I don't know
    a yo yo or a ball or something until he outgrows it?  Maybe you could
    dig into whether things bother him (need for comfort) and he NEEDS
    more comfort than he is getting?
    
    Jeff

           <<< MOIRA::MOIRA$NOTES:[NOTES$LIBRARY]PARENTING.NOTE;1 >>>
                                 -< Parenting >-
================================================================================
Note 273.65                        Pacifiers
                           65 of 67
PCBOPS::OUELLETTE                                    13 lines  20-JAN-1994 13:20
           -< I can handle the finger/thumb sucking, but.......... >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
    	Billy (6 month) never would take a pasifier, he prefers is
    	two middle fingers. More so when he is tired and a nap or bed
    	time. 
    
    	The real problem  is getting Stephen (6 years) to stop playing
    	with his penis. He can be anywhere, and he'd have to constantly be
    	told over and over to leave his penis alone.
    
    	Is this only a little boy thing? Do they all go through it??
    
    		Bill

The previous note addresses two separate subject; pacifiers and a child
fondling his penis.  So that this notesfile retains its PG-13 rating, I'd
like to keep the discussions of pacifiers and penises separate :^)

Please respond to the fondling of the genitals aspect of the previous note
in this topic.  Please respond to the pacifier aspect in topic 273.

Clay Satow
co-moderator 

>    My six year old 'never' does it in front of anyone that I can see, so
>    its obviously an individual thing.

I definitely agree that it's an individual thing.  But that's NOT to say 
(nor is Jeff saying) that it is unusual or deviant.  Some kids do, some 
kids don't.  As you can see from the previous responses, it's not uncommon.  
My son did it, and we did pretty much what was advised in the previous notes; 
we told him, in as non-judgmental a tone as possible, if yer gonna do it, 
please go to your room and do it in private.

Clay