Conference moira::parenting

    I don't think bringing in 'toys' or other things to help occupy a child
    of any age under, say age...10 or so, is disrespectful.  Even those of
    us without kids understand how tough it is to be attentive and quiet
    for a whole hour - at any age :^}  
    
    What I have seen that worked well, was quiet and 'time consuming' were
    simply things like a small pad of paper and a pencil - the etch a
    sketch sound sgood but be prepared for your young artist to be tugging
    on your coat saying 'look what I drew' etc....
    
    
    Jt

    You will not have the only young child there if it is a family
    service, so don't sweat it. If you are greatly concerned you can
    ask the advice of the person leading the service - I'm sure he/she
    has a LOT of experience with family services!
    
    Good luck,
    
    Monica

    
    
    When we started bringing our daughter to church we brought some books,
    a juice box, and pop-tarts (never seemed to have time to have breakfast
    before we left).  This would keep her quiet and still for most of the
    service.  She also enjoyed trying to sing with everybody else.  We
    never really had a problem.  Good luck.
    
    
    		Robin

                      <<< Note 652.0 by CSTEAM::WRIGHT >>>
                         -< Young children in church >-


My standbys:  goldfish crackers, raisins, tic tacs and water in a spillproof 
	      cup, crayons, *ENVELOPES*, action figures (tiny dolls), books are
	      a mixed blessing (my kids want me to read out loud), there's a 
	      travel version of spirograph that my 3.5 year old absolutely 
	      loves, puppets. The *most* important item for midnight services
              blankies and small pillows to encourage snoozing.

Desperation
Strategies   :Obviously you sit near the back or side doors, so you can 
              make ten trips to the potty without the entire congregation
              knowing.  Singing hymns directly in her ear during the start
              up stages of a tantrum.  Allowing her to perform interpretive
              ballet during the longer hymns and prayers requires an end 
              seat.  Detailed discussions of stained glass window themes
	      should always be whispered in God's house.  Sit near other
              understanding parents who allow their children to be force
              fed previously owned raisins and goldfish.....if this isn't
              possible, sit near nice grandmotherly women with indestruct-
	      ible costume jewelry and husbands who don't mind slobber on
              their car keys.

    
    "Interpetive ballet.."
    
    "Previously owned goldfish crackers and raisins.."
    
    
    
    Well said!  I'm still laughing!
    Jamd

We bring both our kids into church on a regular basis (5 and 2.5).  Anthony 
is pretty good but Samantha still has problems staying still, which is 
normal.  We don't like to bring toys into church and the kids seem to be 
getting better and better as we go along.  Samantha likes the hymns and she 
always sings along - with the ABC song!  She still tends to clap after each 
song so we're working on that now....:-)

Dave

    Someone at church brings a small box with crayons, paper - stuff that
    the children can do quietly and be in control of themselves.  It works
    out very well.  The child either sits or kneels on the floor using the
    pew as a sort of ledge/desk to lean on and does her "work."  The box
    has a lid that she can use under the papers so crayons and pencil don't
    get on the cushions.

    We attend Mass is crowds - in laws sit in one pew, on the aisle, we sit
    in another, other relatives scattered about on the aisle near the back
    of the church.  Then we can send David over to sit with Grandma, Auntie
    Debbie, etc. if he gets too bored.  We try to stay on the aisles so he
    doesn't have to disturb other people by climbing.  He's usually very
    good, tries to follow along and listens intently to what the priest is
    saying, but in a pinch the 'relocation' works quite well!
    Sarah

    My kids have been going to church since birth.  They learn to sit
    quietly through practice, and the hardest times we had was around 18
    months when they started to talk and wanted everyone to know they
    could!  Just continually shush them, and realize there will be other
    families around you.  Small toys (that don't rattle, squeek, or velcro
    tear) are appreciated.  My pet peeve is parents who do not take
    screaming children out (thinking they will settle eventually) when
    there is speaking going on.  During singing, I don't mind.  sitting
    them on your lap and talking their ear worked well for us, too.  I
    still carry a "church-bag" with coloring book and colored pencils every
    Sunday (it also carries our family Bibles), and my kids are 8 and 6. 
    Every once in a while, they, too, get fidgety (as do I).  Oh, and a
    snack is a must!  Cheerios in a cup will keep them busy for awhile.
    
    -sandy
    
    

    An alternate strategy to sitting in the back of the church:
    
    If your church has a side door closer to the front, go for it! We found
    that at age 3, Nick was less fidgety if he was able to see what was
    going on at the altar. The downside was/is that, when the novelty of
    observing the priest, etc, wears off, and you've used up all of your
    tactical 'weapons', the misbehavior can be seen by everyone in church;
    thus, the need for quick access to the side door.
    
    Also, some churches have a semi-soundproof children's room in or near
    the vestibule, usually stocked with kids' books or small toys. We
    actually started going to a neighboring parish just to take advantage of
    this feature. Watching mass from behind a window, and hearing it piped
    in on a speaker system amidst the chaos of 6 or more little kids
    running around takes some getting used to, but it beats having to walk
    out in the middle of the service...
    
    Good luck, and enjoy your holiday.
    
    Freddie

Getting a kid to sit quietly and patiently through a long service
is a tall order.  We have been practicing for  3.5 years and
Michelle is only beginning to be really good in Church.  

Here are some of the things that have helped us:

    1) Set the ground-rules BEFORE going to church but keep the 
       rules very short and simple.  For example: tell your son 
       that in Church, people have to be very quiet and sit still.

    2) Make going to Mass a special treat.  For example: tell him 
       that big boys get to go into church instead of the nursery.  
       Now that he is getting so big, he can come to church for 
       the Christmas service (OK, a small lie - but present this 
       as a treat rather than an inconvenience.)

    3) Bribery.  My favorite.  But probably only effective if you 
       use it regularly. Each Sunday I remind my daughter that
       only exceptionally good children get to go to Idlwylde for 
       a treat after church.  When she's good, we stop for a 
       treat. But when she's noisy or wiggly we don't get a treat.
       This is harder to do for one-time events such as Christmas.

    4) As suggested earlier - bring quiet activities such as 
       crayons, books, and things to eat like cheerios.

    5) Don't give him any activities until the first hint that he 
       can't sit sill.  Then introduce one activity at a time as 
       needed (but be careful not to wait until he's actually noisy 
       or disruptive or you may end up inadvertently reenforcing
       disruptive behavior).

       I used to make the mistake of giving Michelle all her toys 
       as soon as we got into church.  But she invariably grew 
       bored with all of them before the sermon even  started.
	 

    6) Sit close to an exit so you can make a hasty and quiet 
       exit when necessary.

    I'm a minister's wife, so I spend a LOT of time at church with my
    three kids.  (I have too many coping strategies to list in a note!)
    
    One of the best so far is using a magna-doodle or other magnetic sketch
    tablet for the 5 and 2.5 year olds instead of paper tablet/pencil (every 
    time I bring tablet/pencil combos, the pencils get lost or the kids 
    argue over the pens -- it's a  hassle.  The magna-doodle "pen" is 
    attached to the tablet...)
     
    I used to bring snacks for the kids too -- but our church has a "no
    eating" policy in the sanctuary now -- you might want to check and see
    if your church has a simialr policy.
    
    I think the best strategy of all is to remember your kids are not
    little adults, and that sitting for a long time is hard for them (our
    church service is 2+ hours long!).
    
    When my kids have really had it, I take them out of the sanctuary and
    let them rip and run in our fellowship hall, and feed them a little
    snack (with no sugar!).
    
    Enjoy the service!
    
    Lesley

    
    Pardon me for being a spoil-sport but I don't really think that
    bringing food into church is such a great idea.  Even the most
    conscientious parents who try to pick up all the cheerios that were
    dropped on the floor will miss a few every once in a while, not to
    mention that you won't want to do any cleaning up if you go to church
    on a snowy day, drag slush into the pew with you, drop a few kix into
    it and now you have mush.  At least the church I go to doesn't have too
    much quality control built into their cleaning of the church.  Even I
    would not expect for anyone to clean between say 9:00 and 11:00
    services.  If you must bring food, a good suggestion is to take your
    child out of church (into the back or some hallway or wherever) and let
    him/her eat something there.
    
    Other than that, I think that books, etch-a-sketches, etc. that many
    other people mentioned are good suggestions.
    
    Phil                                      

    
    	I have to agree with Phil on the food ideas.
    
    	We took Emily into service with us until she got to be almost
    	nine months.  After that, we found she could last about 1/2 way
    	through the service, but would get antsy eventually (and we'd
    	bring her to the nursery).  Those services were 2 hours long.
    	Now, we put her in the nursery for the whole service (1.5 hours).
    
    	We have successfully brought her into church for Christenings
    	or memorial masses for family (where the church was not our own).
    	So far, we haven't had to rely on any distraction techniques other
    	than passing her back and forth between mommy and daddy.  There
    	have always been 8 other kids with us (cousins), so perhaps that's
    	also kept Emily amused.
    
    	We'll be taking her to church on Christmas Eve with my parents.  I
    	don't believe the church has a nursery, so we'll hold her.  The
    	service is at 5, and is also a family service, so I'm not terribly
    	concerned.  There's bound to be at least *one* kid making more
    	noise than ours ;-) .
    
    	Karen
    

    
    Are you able to find out if your church or another local church
    of your faith in a  nearby town is holding a children's Mass or
    service?  Our church sent out a list with the times and types
    of Mass for the Christmas Holidays.(Our parish has Portuguese
    Masses). Our church is having a Children's Mass at 5:30 PM on
    Christmas Eve.  This works out great for us. The Mass is listed
    as a children's Mass so most folks who prefer not to have children
    "should" know enough to avoid this Mass. Hopefully, the Mass will
    be geared for children.  There are also several Portuguese Masses
    being celebrated. So, those of us that don't speak Portuguese should
    know enough to not attend those services.
    
    Merry Christmas
    
    Pat K.
        
    

    
    Bring a smile and some patience.
    
    Some of us believe that Christmas Eve is about labor pains and a crying
    baby in a stable with dirt on the floor. He won't mind if your children
    are children. People around you will appreciate them if they are cute
    and in the spirit rather than tired and fussy or nasty.
    
    Every week my daughter prances in the aisle, eats cheerios, climbs
    around, etc. She is very upset if we miss Mass. She is very comfortable
    with God and Mary and Joseph and Baby Jesus...she is 2 1/2. I get
    impatient sometimes but she is learning about God's love in church;
    she can learn to sit still when she's older.
    
    I get worried that she upsets people but, in fact, people find her
    delightful and she finds the environment loving and friendly.
    Merry Christmas.

    Re. .16
    
    Everything you said is so true (and well put)!
    
    I used to get really tense when my kids (the PASTOR's kids) were
    having tantrums in the aisles, or throwing cheerios, until I noticed that 
    only person who was tense was me -- all of the people around me were 
    smiling and playing with the kids, (not to mention some of the wiser, 
    older women in the church sat me down and gently reminded me that 
    tantrums and squashed cheerios were minor compared to what my kids were
    getting at church...)
    
    Lesley

    I know this is late, but I just want to add my 2cents worth to it, I do
    have some suggestions, that might be brought back to your individual
    churches, no matter what denomination.
    
    Our church offers nursery for childrent under kindegarten age, but
    chilren of all ages are welcome at the worship service.  My son is 7,
    and he goes with me, my husband is another faith and doesn't go anyway.
    In our church, near the begining of the service the minister calls all
    he children to the fron couple pews and does something special just for
    them.  Sometimes it's a magic trick, or telling a story with undertones
    of religion, usually it has something to do with the day's sermon, or
    the season.  He interacts by asking questions and prompting dialog with
    the children.  Sometimes the children get to assist, as in lighting of
    advent candles, or sticking things onto a chart of somekind.  After
    this part the children are taken by an adult, someone volunteers each
    week, accross the hall to a parlor room where they have "children's
    church" the children might watch a video, or color pictures of a
    religious nature, one Easter each child made their own Easter Egg.
    
    When we arrive at church the adults are handed the week's bulletin (or
    Program) and the children get their own "bulletin" which is again of a
    religious nature, there are crossword puzzles, fill in the blank
    things, pictures to color (unfortunately crayons are not supplies, just
    the pencils in the pews) I sometimes carry the tiny 4packs of crayons
    like some of the fastfood joints give to kids for this reason.
    
    After the service there are coffee and donuts in the fellowship hall,
    the kids get punch and donuts, there is usually some home made goodies
    as an option like coffee cake or nut bread.  It is essentially free,
    but a basket for a free will offering is there.  Oh they do buy donut
    holes for the kids who may not be able to handle a whole donut, and we
    all just sort of hang out for a while and socialize.  
    
    Interestingly enough, when I first started taking him to church he was
    barely able to talk, but every time we drove passed our church he would
    baby-babble something like "I go church mom, get donuts!"  Or when I
    told him we were going to church (on sunday morning) he would say "Oh
    go let's go to church and get donuts"  Somehow I don't think this is
    working, you're not going to church for donuts kiddo!
    
    But on the otherhand, he picked up on one of my favorite phrases when
    he was younger "Oh Gawd", to which I kept saying to him, No AJ you
    don't say that, you can only talk to God in church, and He can only
    hear you if you whisper His name!  It worked!!  and I've stopped using
    that phrase!
    
    Maybe your church would consider some of these ideas.  Oh and I
    sometimes will carry pocket size toys, like the mini spirograph, and
    the pocket size Wonderful Waterfuls, which are great for entertaining
    but wonderfully quiet!
    
    Lyn