Conference moira::parenting

First let me say that I really admire you for what you're doing.

Diagnosing learning disabilities is complicated stuff; it can be as simple as 
needing different glasses, or as complicated as a neurological disorder, or 
even a combination of causes.  If I were you, I would report your 
observations, to the girl's teacher, and any reading specialist or special 
education person at her school, and her parents if you have any contact with 
them.  I'm a bit amazed that nothing has been mentioned to you; I would think 
that if they were aware of any problems, they would let a tutor know, and if 
they aren't aware of the problem by fifth grade, they aren't doing their job.

Clay

Joyce,
	You might want to check out ASABET::LEARNING_DISABILITIES.

Mike

    Thanks for the input folks, and Mike thanks for the pointer.
    
    Joyce

    Well to let folks know.....I have been using the
    ::LEARNING_DISABILITIES notesfile as a source of information and
    suggestions.
    
    But as an update:
    
    I talked to the child's teacher yesterday and was informed she was
    tested but the teacher "hasn't had a chance to review the results" I
    plan on talking with the teacher again next week and if I'm not
    comfortable with the response I get I plan to elevate this to the
    assistant principle (this is the proper course of action for a Digital
    Volunteer)  
    
    Thanks for your help here and in mail,
    Joyce

    I had a conference with my daughter Jessica's teachers last night.  She
    is in first grade. The teachers are basically telling us that Jessica
    is "FAR BEHIND" the other kids in the class. Jessica had had some
    testing done earlier this year where the team had a conference and they
    had referenced ADD several times. I had talked with Jessica's
    pediatrician about this after the team conference and asked about
    further testing on Jessica to see if she has ADD and maybe medication
    will help her.   Any way, her doctor referred her to a psychologist
    whom I talked to about Jessica's problem.   He sent me some forms for
    Mrs. Quinlan, the Special Ed teacher, and us to fill out.   Well I got
    them back last night and read them and these forms really depressed me.  
    These forms indicate that Jessica has very low esteem and that she has
    an "inability to attend", "inability to express herself", and
    "occaisionaly depressed".   Jessica is used to tuning out, she has no
    quick recall, very little word retrieval ability, and although her math
    skills are satisfactory for routine adding and subtracting, abstract
    tasks have no meaning for her.

    I asked if they thought Jessica is so far behind that she will need to
    be held back in 1st grade.   Mrs Quinlan said that it was a
    possibility, but that it would be a decision made as a team including
    her, the special ed teacher, the speech teacher, the guidance teacher
    and us.   The special ed teacher is already indicating to Mrs. Quinlan
    that Jessica should be held back. This  really scares me if she has to
    stay back in first grade, more for her esteem  than anything else. 
    Mrs. Quinlan said that Jessica would probably need  Special Education
    as long as she is in elementary school, and since that is true,  then
    she will have help next year in second grade as well.   She will never
    be able to understand why she is being held back and I don't have any
    idea  how we'd explain this to her.  So, the school is going to run
    another test on her  called the "gesel (sp?)" test to see how her
    developemental age in compared to her chronological age. This test is
    based on nationwide results for her chronological age.f  Mrs. Quinlan
    says that she doesn't feel that her  developmental age is extremely low
    compared to the other children in the  class, but that she is
    definitely behind.

    The question I guess we will have to decide once the test comes back is
    to determine, whether being held back will hurt her more (esteem wise)
    than sending her on and hoping that with the special help she will be
    able to keep up.  But, how do we know what is best for her.   If she
    has poor esteem now, won't holding her back and telling her that she
    won't be able to step up to second grade with her friends do more harm
    than good?   

    So Confused.   Any suggestions, inputs?

    
    Sarah
    

    My parents, with the best intentions in the world, started me early in
    1st grade (this was probably more easily done 30 years ago than now).  
    Some things I was very good at - others not so good.  As I struggled
    (with tutoring) to keep up with math, history, science, I kept falling
    further behind.  My main problem was I was too young/immature to handle
    the extra tasks.  
    
    I didn't have any learning disabilities, but I ended up in a special
    ed. class in 5th grade  and I ended up there for
    6th grade.  I didn't really belong there either, but some skills were
    so far behind.   I did a lot of working to get to more "normal" classes
    and I didn't have ADD, just too young a start.  (My mom has felt so bad
    over all of this).
    
    Anyway, in the effort to preserve her self esteem this year, you may
    really be hurting it far more in the long wrong.  She isn't able to
    really keep up with her class, so the illusion of being part of her
    class will become more apparent to her and her classmates as time goes
    along.  That can be so damaging.  It certainly was for me.  
    
    
    The point is - it took me, without ADD, a long time to recover from
    being in classes where I didn't know what was going on.  Also, just as
    I was catching on (physically/mentally maturing to the other kids
    ages), another year went by and I'm in a new grade with a whole new set
    of subjects I couldn't keep up with.
    
    How does Jessica feel about all this?  She might be relieved to have
    the chance to relearn the material.

    .6  -  I meant long run, not long wrong.

re .5:

I suggest you cross-post in ASABET::LEARNING_DISABILITIES.

>    .6  -  I meant long run, not long wrong.

Sure you didn't subconciously mean "long wrong"?  It seems to apply.  Thanks 
for sharing the story.

I have mixed feelings on this one.

First, my son is now in fifth grade.  He has a couple of friends who were 
retained in first grade.  That difference, while somewhat visible then, is 
for all practical purposes forgotten now.  And of the kids we've known 
that have repeated a grade, the ones who did it early seem to have 
worked out better than the ones who did it late.  As .6 points out, for a 
child to continually struggle, the damage to self esteem is continuous and 
ongoing.

On the other hand, I'm a bit concerned.  ADD is not a learning disability in 
the sense of not being able to understand the concepts.  It is a learning 
disability more in the sense of being able to control attention and behavior. 
Of course, if the child has difficulty along these lines, they may not be 
learning the material.  But many ADD kids understand the concepts perfectly 
well; they just can't show that they understand in the same way as other kids 
can.  So be very careful of who does the testing, and how. Make sure it's 
that she really doesn't understand the material, not that she just isn't able 
to do well on a test or can't concentrate on her homework.  If that's the 
case, and the ADD can be controlled by medication or otherwise, then the 
retention MIGHT be unnecessary.

I suggest that you also consult the ASABET::LEARNING_DISABILITIES notesfile 
and that you learn what your rights and responsibilities are for your state.

Clay 

I'm currently in a class on Learning Disabilities - what a controversial field,
both in diagnosing and treatment.  Currently we are looking at attention
disorders and I found it interesting that the "radical thinking " author of the
book we are reading states "That a fundemental weakness is the difficulty in
knowing exactly what attention deficits are. Is the so called attention deficit
due to overall lethargy, an inability to sustain attention, an inability to
select the right thing to concentrate on, a problem focusing too narrowly within
the area requiring attention, lack of motivation or an inability to filter out
unncessary information?".  The author points out some interesting research. 
Unfortunately this book is not an easy one to read.  I could ask my instructor
for some recommendations (he is working on his Phd in Special Education) if you
are interested.

Our instructor (who is also a reform thinker with regard to special education)
also discussed the idea of "holding back students". He said this is common
practice with learning disabled kids but usually the year they repeat looks just
like the first one.  He suggests maybe the reason the child didn't get it the
first year has to do with the teaching method, materials, environment (etc.) and
if the child gets the "same" year over their chances for improvement or catching
up are slim.

Just some thoughts.

>Is the so called attention deficit
>due to overall lethargy, an inability to sustain attention, an inability to
>select the right thing to concentrate on, a problem focusing too narrowly
>within the area requiring attention, lack of motivation or an inability to 
>filter out unncessary information?".

Interesting, though I have to wonder about the "overall lethargy" in that 
many ADD kids are considered "hyperactive".  The other things mentioned are 
very intriguing ways of looking at the problem.

Clay

    RE. 10
    
    Maybe if they could repeat the year, but with a different teacher, it
    wouldn't be rehashing the same old thing, so the year might be better.
    

    Thanks for the ideas and input.   I will cross-post this in the
    Learning Disability file when I can decide which topic it belongs
    under.  I'm still having a hard time trying to determine what is the
    right thing to do.   I'm glad that I still have about 8-10 weeks of
    school left before I have to make some type of decision.  Hopefully, I
    will have all the information gathered and Jessica has seen this new
    doctor.   Everyday, I notice more and more about how distractable she
    is and how whenever I ask her to do something, anything can distract
    her from that task.   I end up asking her to do something many times,
    and I'm sure she is feeling like I'm picking on her and then she starts
    yelling and screaming at me.   Its so frustrating.   Its also extremely
    weird how much she loses her short term memory.   I'll ask her what she
    had for lunch today and she cannot remember to tell me, but she can
    come up with some memories that are several years old and can tell us
    exact details about that memory.
    
    Once again, thanks for the input.
    
    Sarah