Conference moira::parenting

    
    Teaching a child that they can't always be first, that they must take
    turns with others, and that some days they don't even get a turn is
    one of the things that my son is currently learning in his preschool.
    Perhaps your son might benefit from a similar program, if he doesn't
    already go.
      

    
    Oops, what I forgot to say in -.1 is that some lessons (I think like
    the one you're trying to teach your son) are difficult to *tell* a
    child - they kind of need to observe/experience/live these social
    dynamics first hand.
    
    Carol

        Gee, that must be definately typical of 3 year olds. I read 607
    just after I got a correction on Chuck E Cheese. My 3 1/2 year old
    grandson tells me how smart he is. It's been so long since mine were
    that young. 
    
        He's says things like "I such a good boy." "I'm so smart."  He's
    got to do everything himself and then show you how good he did it.
    It must be a sign that they're looking for independence and want
    it reinforced that they can do it. They want to be proud of 
    accomplishments, etc. I would say that he should get complemented
    when he does good and I like the 'almost won' saying when you
    refer to other children.
    
         Rose
    

Evan (now 5) went through a stage of this, too.  I didn't mind too much
when he bragged how much better (faster, stronger, etc) he was than I am,
as I knew he would learn soon enough it wasn't true.  So I mostly let that
go, only winning on few occasions in a "race", for instance.  

Then he started boasting how boys were stronger than women, faster than
women, etc.  *Wrong* thing to say.  :-)   For a while after that I made it
clear that this was *not* true, and he learned that I can turn on or turn off
my strength and speed when competing with him.  He was angry and sad at first,
but I also taught him a little about generalizing and about good manners.
For a while after that, he would make it clear that he knew I could win but
that he wanted me to let him win ("Mom, let's race to that door, but let
me win, okay?").  Then I would race and pretend to try hard, would let him win,
but the sexist comments had stopped.

I don't remember the last time he made one of those comments.  I think it was
probably when he was 3 like your child.  Now he still likes to win, but he
is not quite so rude about it.

        Carol

    At three, my daughter matter of factly stated one day:
    
    		"I know what life is all about"
    
    We never could convince her otherwise.
    She's 8 now and still thinks she knows more than her parents.
    
    Jodi-
    
    
    

    re .4
    Carol, Ryan went through the same thing at age 3, telling me that girls
    don't scrape paint off houses, girls like pink, etc. After talking to
    one of my sisters who is a child psychologist I was relieved to learn
    that I wasn't inadvertently raising a little sexist male. What actually
    happens around age 3 is that they begin to discern differences between
    people, and between the sexes. Both the items above were inappropriate
    and untrue generalizations :-), but they _were_ his 3 yr old attempt to
    note differences between gender!!
    
    Lynn
    

    Must be the age! My 3 year old has a fit if my husband or I go down the
    stairs, or in the front door, or out the backdoor, or....anywhere
    FIRST. He likes to be "first" at everything and likes to race us places
    so he can win. I've tried telling him "you can't always be first", like
    when I have an arm full of groceries and I need to get in the door
    fast, but it doesn't help. I view it as a stage that he will, like the
    others that came before it, pass through. Pre-school helps; I know he's
    not always first there.  You've got lots of time to work on
    "competetion" vs "doing your best", "teamplay" vx "winners & losers".
    

     Three years later ...
    
     My almost 6 year old son (same one referred to in .0) is very competitive.
     He loves and excels in sports and loves to 'win' at everything.  At home 
     we enjoy playing various board games and when he loses, many times he 
     cries and starts blaming others !  Last year he used to do *whatever it 
     takes* to  influence a game's outcome, but at least now he plays fairly, 
     even if it means that someone else wins.  Three years of preschool and
     lots of social interaction with his peers have probably helped with
     the fairness aspect.

     My wife and I cannot understand why he reacts this way.  We have tried 
     the logical approach - "it's just a game", "let's play for fun", ...
     but he still takes his game playing too seriously and remains eager to
     play games.  We try to keep the matter low key and not dwell too much 
     on the winning.  Even setting the expectation before game playing of
     'no crying allowed' or the threat of no more games does not prevent the 
     tears.  I assume we are not alone with this.  It is also probably
     another phase of childhood.
    
     What do other parents do to keep it fun ?

>     on the winning.  Even setting the expectation before game playing of
>     'no crying allowed' or the threat of no more games does not prevent the 
>     tears.  I assume we are not alone with this.  It is also probably
>     another phase of childhood.

I don't want this to sound like an attack opn your parenting style but it
probably will somewhat ... and for that I'll apologize up front and say that
what I want you to do is think about what you're expecting.

Saying "no crying allowed" does nothing but tell him that what he's feeling is
not a valid feeling ... how would you feel if I tell you that you should not
feel upset at his behaviour or tell you that you should not cry if some
disaster in life should befall you.

Remember that in adulthood, every incident is a smaller and smaller part of
our existence, so the impact of "losing a game" for example is miniscule in
the overall scheme of things ... BUT look back to your childhood and remember
how long every day was and how important small things were.  Something as small
as winning a game is still a significant event in a child's life.

So recognizing that the child rightly feels upset at losing, you've got to
show him that while it hurts to lose, that the behaviour he exhibits when losing
is not appropriate.  To that end the idea of saying that you won't play because
of his behaviour is a good one ... but you MUST live up to your threat!  Tell
him you will not play the next time he asks because you don't want to play with
someone who behaves like that when he gets upset.  Then when he asks next time
say no ... and repeat why.  Then on the *next* time play.

Acknowledge that he is upset "I know you don't like losing ... neither do
I ... but I don't behave like this when I lose".  Give him something other
way to vent his anger / frustration at losing that is more acceptable.  "Go
for a run around the back yard ... come back and we'll continue"  Something like
that which changes the emphasis from "Gimme attention and feel sorry for me
because I lost" to something that changes the focus away from the loss.

Stuart

    We've also stressed very much with my 5 year old that there are many
    lessons to be learned from playing board games.  There's the lesson of
    waiting your turn; a lesson of how to be a gracious winner (not
    bragging or teasing the looser); and a lesson of how to be a good
    winner.
    
    Also, as the previous noter stated, make the threat stick.  We've
    refused to play before because we don't like playing with a bad looser. 
    When she proves she can be a good winner and looser, we gladly play
    games with her.
    
    Irene

    And sometimes, you just have to remind your young child (3-10 years)
    that you are an adult and more experienced at these games, and
    therefore have a much better chance of winning.  Therefore, children
    should be proud of themselves when they win against Mom and/or Dad, and
    not worry too much about it when they lose.  
    
    Works with my 8 year old for a few years now, but it is a trial of
    constant reminders.  Joe either cheats his way to success or whines and
    cries when he loses.  We ask him how he would like it if *WE* cheated 
    while playing with him, whether it would be fair.  We imitate his
    whining and ask how he'd like it if we behaved that way or if one of
    his friends did...One strike gets the above speeches, two strikes gets 
    a 5 minute time out from the game.  Three strikes ends the game, and we
    won't play again for several days, reminding him that we don't like to
    play with people who cheat or are bad losers.  Eventually he gets his
    good graces together for a period of several months, and then POOF! 
    out comes that mean twin again!  
    
    M.